Opinions on Pure Audio Project Quintet 15 Horn 1 Please

I have a pair for sale in Boston.

They are wonderful. The size of the music is huge with visceral impact but also strangely relaxed. The open baffles don't load the room in the way speakers from a box do. A standup bass sounds like a bass in a room...not a bass sound coming from a box. I have the horns They are sweet and reall sounding in a way that draws you into the music. I don't have a spot for them now, so I',m selling them. You will love the balance also

I'm very interested in the PAP Trio15 Horn version as i would like to try something very different to my beloved Thiel CS 3.7s.

I'm planning to get Jadis amplification for my Thiel therefore this would also work great on Trio15s.

My room is medium size therefore Trio15s should be good enough.

What do you guys think about having OB speakers to complement box speakers ?

I think i can audition the PAPs at Munich in 2024 before making a decision.

@coachpoconnor
@triedafew 
The fact that ’triedafew’ is a new register (September 2021) with only 2 posts...both of which are negative posts about Pure Audio Project...
That tells me everything I need to know about the guy :)

triedafew-

Your hurling a lot of trash at Pure Audio Project. Any concrete examples of why you're saying this? Did you contact them with your concerns?.. Any response?

PAP products are a waste of money. 

Good marketing, nice Facebook group where all new owners congratulate each other. As for the equipment heavy, big, cumbersome, bad quality, bad finish, bad sound. And once you are sufficiently frustrated You can't give them away.

@dagda

i believe you are thinking about this correctly, and have identified the most significant risk

it is too bad, on paper, these speakers hold a great deal of promise but the trial aspect can be costly and cumbersome

big speakers, expensive, less-than-well-established maker, home base of maker far far away -- makes it tough! 😨

Hello One and All,

Thank you all so much for taking the time to post your experiences/advice, it really is appreciated!

I think the biggest takeaway on this is that if I don’t like them, I’ll probably be stuck with them or loose a far amount in depreciation should I want to sell them on.

The price to me is too substantial to gamble on speakers I can’t audition so I think I’ll call it a day on the Quintet 15s.

I think I need further advice on speaker choice, but I’ll start another thread for that and detail what I’m looking for.

Thank you all again for your help,

Dagda

@dagda , It is an interesting speaker and with correction it is probably capable of a very nice image. Its very low bass is going to be very choppy. With the woofers going up to 550 Hz I would definitely want to cross over to subs at 100 Hz. This will clean up the midrange very noticeably. It is really only a partial open baffle speaker. From 550 up it is a horn speaker which is not a bad approach but there is going to be a change in imaging at 550 Hz. The walls behind the speaker should be deadened with acoustic tiles. 

They are big speakers and at that point the Sound Labs 545 or 645 would be so much better. They present a unified sound field and will have a more stable image with better resolution of the third dimension. They still should be crossed over to subs. They will make bass but taking 100 Hz and down away from them improves everything from distortion to the image. You will never hear such balanced clarity anywhere else which is a pretty daring statement. But, I will stand by it. 

I believe Ralph was quoting my post.

ralph, first of all, i had the m3 sapphires (at clayton’s suggestion when we spoke, and i was debating x vs m series, he suggested the m’s) - clayton is a great guy btw, responsive and helpful, truly wants you to be happy, i really wanted to make these work for me

second, yes i did have 5 ft behind (to front wall), 3 feet to sides... i have had maggies and quad esl’s, still have the quads, know the setup drill

third, as for amps, in the year i had them, i tried many many:

linear tube audio zotl40 ref

audio research ref 75, vt50, vt100-2, 100.2

belles sa-30

hegel rost, h190, h390

cary300b se-i

sony ta1-1es

audiosector patek se

... so i tried solid state and tube, high and low power... gave them every chance...

That was my take on the Spatial Audio X3. The midrange wasn’t fleshed out and “real “ to my ears.

@jjss49 

That speaker can be quite revealing. What amplifier were you using?

If you have the room to set up open baffle speakers the soundstage can be impressive. The speakers have to be at least 5 feet from the wall behind them so the ear/brain system can interpret the late arrival information (reflection from the wall) as echo location information instead of harshness.

I prefer the non boxy sound of open baffle over box speakers anyday. Midrange sounds amazing with OB speakers, they just need proper setup and good equiptment to support them. Unfortunately I see a lot of people don't do this. Good Luck with your quest.

I've owned the Spatial M3 TS and while they were light on bass, they really turned me on to dual concentric designs which led me to Tannoy.

I did cross shop the M3 with the Pure Audio Project trio, and the major issue I saw with the PAP was that I'd never be able to sell them if they didn't work out. The DIY build approach means you can't easily package them back up and ship them to a willing buyer, and the Quintet being an even larger speaker is going to have fewer potential buyers due to low WAF (despite their very good looks IMO). If they work for you, great!  But, what if they don't?

Open baffle speakers have their upsides, but bass is not one of them if you have a room with large volume. The room needs to be small enough to pressurize, but deep enough you can place the speakers far enough from the front wall (1-2 meters).

Lots of variables, and no, I've not heard Spatials long term.

My issue with a number of different models of Alon OB was incoherence between OB mids and tweeters and acoustic suspension woofers. I would have had to biamp with tubes on top, ss on woofers to get balance I desired. Don't know if open baffle woofers along with mids and tweeters have this issue?

I am a fan of open baffle speakers in general and quite liked the Spatials I heard at CAF in 2019. I also heard Pure Audio Project, not sure which model, in the VPI room that year and didn't care for them. All that said you should at least audition them shows are not the greatest place to evaluate speakers and we all hear differently.

I’m not trying to say the X3 isn’t a good speaker, it certainly is. I was an early adopter and kept mine for a year. Like all good speakers they have shortcomings and you have to decide if the trade off is worth it. I can see them being an end game speaker for some.

Hmm, I just had good experience listening to Spatial X3, that in comparison to my much modded Klipschorns. Not saying Spatials in this setup superior to what I have, but certainly didn't hear non fleshed out mids. Prima Luna Dialogue Four I modded powering Spatials. I also used Alon OB speakers for years,  I've always enjoyed OB speakers, but then I enjoy horns as well. Pure Audio Project certainly on my radar prior to Klipschorns, I haven't heard so can't help here.

@jjss49 and I had a similar experience. I actually replaced the x3 with cornwalls. I have since moved on to LaScalas but I think the CW IV is the better all around speaker over the spatial. Although I do agree about the outstanding bass reproduction of the X3.

there are many folks with great ears, refined tastes, that really like ob speakers, such as the spatial m and x series -- most seem to use tube amps to drive them, which certainly tends to add more flesh and body to mids/voices in comparison to most ss amps

the bass of these ob speakers are truly excellent, fast, deep, tuneful, very natural propogation pattern/bloom, it is an absolutely towering strength of this design, no doubt

but as time passed, i just could not find peace with how the mids (and especially voice, piano, acoustic guitar, woodwinds) were reproduced, and even though my big harbeths and spendors can’t do bass as well as the spatials i had (they’re very good, but not to the exceptional level of the ob’s) to my ear, the big-boy bbc monitors get the midrange really right... and that took priority for me, how i listen

Thank you all for the insights, I hadn't thought about the midrange. 😟

Nor had I thought that dynamics could be fatiguing after a while.

Oh dear, looks like there's more negatives than positives with this design.

There's always the Cornwall's I guess, though here in the UK, the price is £7,500 or a smidge over $10,000 US.

Would anyone buy the Cornwall's if they cost $10k?

All the best,

Dagda

I have heard these at the Florida Expo show. They were very impressive. I was taken back by the size and soundfield these made. Please keep in mind that the initial audition of a speaker like these is very positive, but if you owned them, after about 2 weeks or so, would the glaring dynamics be their strength, or fatigue? Think about having them all the time...before you make the decision to own them.

That was my take on the Spatial Audio X3. The midrange wasn’t fleshed out and “real “ to my ears.

with several 15 in woofers per side, i would hope that subs would not be needed for most applications

it is interesting there are all the center driver choices provided to the buyer, but i wish they would pick the one that is best sonically, and say that is THE speaker to buy - i feel they evade some responsibility providing all those choices if the speaker does not fully please, whatever the customer chooses

that said my concern with so many of these large bass driver open baffle models is the integration of the woofers with the tweeter/mid - it seems that neither are quite ideal to reproduce the absolutely essential midrange frequencies (that was my own finding when i had the spatials...)

Hi jjss49,

Thank you for posting!

I did indeed see his review of the Trio15 Classic. He mentioned that they played Jazz well, but also said the Cornwall IVs were better overall. I'm not sure just how much of what he said would translate to the Quintet 15 Horn 1 though. 

Thanks again for posting,

Dagda

P.S. I'm trying to get an audition with the Cornwalls at the moment.

i have not tried these (nor heard them) but i too have been curious

i trust you saw the steve guttenberg review on youtube...