Pontus ii and Hi Res

What is your monthly charge?  You might think you're subscribed to hi res but if you not paying for it you won't get it despite what your Tidal menu says.

I don’t believe any Denifrips unfolds MQA. So, keep that in mind.

I have an Aries II, and dropped down a tier in Tidal after its purchase, and Tidal changing its subscription offerings, as it (MQA) is somewhat worthless to me.

I do have some DSD and other hi res files on a server though, and the Denifrips can handle it all. Just not MQA.

If you use Roon, it does the first MQA unfold, I recall, so you'd get get benefit even if your DAC doesn't decode MQA.

@marco1 … monthly rate is $19.95. I purposely signed up for the highest SQ they offer.

@bkeske Does your Aries2 indicate the resolution being played? My concern is the Pontus seems to recognize everything as 44.1 x1. Hi res or not.

We have a family Spotify account and honestly, I’m not sure I’m hearing much/any difference with Tidal (normal, Hi-fi or MQA). Or, is my DAC not working correctly?

The Node should do the first unfold of MQA files.  I have a Node 2i connected to an Ares II via coax and I'll see 24/96 when playing Tidal MQA files.  Maybe try another cable?

@chocaholic

@bkeske Does your Aries2 indicate the resolution being played? My concern is the Pontus seems to recognize everything as 44.1 x1. Hi res or not.

Yes it does, when playing hi res files from my server it indicates that higer resolution, including DSD. But it always shows redbook rates using the Tidal HiFi plan, not the HiFi+ with MQA, which you are using.

You will only see 44.1 when using Tidal with the Denifrips. Which still sounds very good. Heck, I still spin many CD’s using the Denifrips via an Audiolab 6000CDT transport, and it sounds fantastic.

If I were you, I would reduce your plan to HiFi. Or if MQA is important to you, get another DAC, use the internal Node DAC and bypass the Pontus, or consider Qobuz or Roon.

Some day I may take the Roon leap, but as I listen to primarily vinyl, don’t feel it is necessary, for me at this time.

An interesting discussion for you: Go to a comment on Sept. 21th, and this discussion is had. As I understand, Roon will unpack MQA and convert it to Hi Res PCM which the Denafrips will utilize.

Its a pity Denafrips don’t do MQA.

Anyone did a comparison of how MQA tracks sound on a Denafrips vs a comparable MQA DAC ?

@bkeske … considering your comment:

Yes it does, when playing hi res files from my server it indicates that higer resolution, including DSD. But it always shows redbook rates using the Tidal HiFi plan, not the HiFi+ with MQA, which you are using.

Not sure what Redbook Rates means but I’ll assume it’s higher than 44.1 x1. As such are you suggesting that the Pontus will recognize hi res from Tidal Hifi, but NOT with Hifi+ with MQA?

If so, I’ll certainly step down to Hifi only. 

@chocaholic 

Not sure what Redbook Rates means but I’ll assume it’s higher than 44.1 x1. As such are you suggesting that the Pontus will recognize hi res from Tidal Hifi, but NOT with Hifi+ with MQA?

'Redbook' is the term for standard CD quality sample rates, or 44.1. So yes, 'HiRes' in terms of comparing it to a WAV, FLAC, etc. file, or, 'CD quality'. Certainly much better than MP3. 

Bottom line, your Denafrips can provide you 'CD Quality' playback with the Tidal standard 'HiFi' plan.

MQA is a scam. Redbook is fine. Apparently you are overpaying for Tidal. You are not alone. Virtually no one can pass the AIX HiRez test to identify it.  At least you started streaming at the right place.

Do you know how to Google?:

Subscribe to Qobuz.  Problem solved.  You'll get up to 196 with your setup and the lights on the Pontus will confirm it. Better SQ than Tidal too.

The pontus doesnot do mqa no big loss,  it’s not better then hires files anyway 

just go to QObuz.

My Terminator dac will not go higher than 44.1. The later models (2, Plus, and Plus 12th anniversary) will do 48K.

Pretty sure the “MQA to external DAC” option turned “on” means your Node is not performing the first unfold since it expects the external DAC to do everything, and in that case your non-MQA DAC will always see 44.1 kHz. Disable “MQA to external DAC” and the Node should do the first unfold. 

I think rockrider and dinosore are going in the correct direction.....I however only use Qobuz, so I can't confirm. My equipment Node 130 USB to Denafrrips Iris DDC, I2S to Pontus II DAC. Here is an excerpt I found:

"The way MQA describes their content is as origami with 3 folds. These folds consist of the decoding and rendering which when fully rendered will output 24-bit/192KHz audio. When streaming MQA through the Node 2i, the BluOS app will handle the first decoding stage which will process the MQA file to 24-bit/96KHz audio. The next 2 rendering steps are then handled by the internal DAC of the Node 2i which will then allow 24-bit/192KHz audio. 

When using coaxial or optical cable from your Node 2i, you are bypassing the internal DAC of the player which is resulting in only the decoding stage occurring and only outputting 24-bit/96KHz audio. To get full 24-bit/192KHz audio you will need to use the analog RCA outputs of the Node 2i to have the internal DAC of the Node 2i process these 2 rendering stages and output fully unfolded MQA".

Good luck

@rockrider Yes, I turned that off. Just spent the last hour+ directly comparing Spotify set on its highest resolution to Tidal Hifi+. Opera, jazz and classical. Back and forth between the two with the same exact recordings on each. Guys…maybe it’s my tin ears but when normalized for volume, the SQ and image difference was negligible at best. That’s either a testament to the work of this DAC, my room or again…my (in)ability to detect a difference. Gene Ammons tenor on My Romance gave chills regardless of which streaming service I played it on.

I paid Tidal for a month so will continue to play with it for a bit before deciding whether or not to keep it. Thanks all for the comments and advice. Oh, and yes @fuzztone , I can Google with the best!  

@vthokie83 If I’m understanding correctly, it sounds like I should have stuck with the streamer’s DAC and not sprung for the Pontus since most of our listening is via the streamer.

Bottom line…the SQ is amazing either way…quite happy via either service. Perhaps I’ll quit overthinking this and just enjoy the music. Bela Fleck’s “Sex in a pan” is on now and just stunning. Check it out. 

I use an ultraRendu to my Pontus II through Roon or Qobuz and it goes higher than CD level resolution for sure

chocaholic,

That wouldn't be my choice, I'd switch to Qobuz and keep what you have in place. The Node will pass up to 24/192 via USB

The DAC in the Node is fine, and much improved in the Node 130, but NOWHERE near the quality of the Pontus II and even moreso with the Iris DDC in place.

@vthokie83 That sounds like good advice. Qobuz is the one piece of the puzzle I haven’t tried. Will do. 
 

BTW…disconnected my Node from the Pontus and ran the analogue outputs to my amp (PrimaLuna HP Int) and you are correct…it sounds considerably better through the Pontus. 

I have a Node 3 and added an SMSL M400 DAC with MQA. I believe it is an improvement in sound quality over the streamers DAC. I can do a direct A-B comparison of a recoding in MQA and CD Quality playing on Radio Paradise. I have not been able to distinguish a difference between them.

@chocaholic 

I have the same setup, but the Pontus ll doesn’t do MQA. If you want MQA, you need to run if from the node to you integrated amp or preamp.

Pontus is not MQA capable DAC. If you want fully unfold MQA you need MQA enabled DAC or use onboard Node DAC. Optimal solution is to switch to Qobus and forget about High res limitations forever. 

Ok…on Qobuz. DAC still shows 44.1kHz x1 multiplier. Streaming “best of 192kHz” playlist. Tried with optical and coax inputs. Now what?

@chocaholic 

Try the three month free trial from Amazon HD or the one month trial from Qobuz. No MQA, but high res up to 24/192!

Yes, am on Qobuz now (free trial).  Currently streaming at 24 bit 192 kHz but DAC doesn’t seem to recognize anything above 44.1 kHz (x1 multiplier). That’s my concern. As such, Qobuz is no better than Spotify. Concerned my new Pontus is malfunctioning. I’ve emailed Denefrips but no response as of now. 

Do you have a Coax cable you could try instead of optical? Optical SPDIF (Toslink) is not generally considered the best connection choice. 

@rockrider Yes, using a Wireworld coax cable currently. No difference.

Could it be because I’m streaming via Bluetooth from my iPad to the Node?

Bluetooth? No no no no no. The iPad should be connected to your WiFi (on same network as Node) then the iPad only works as a controller and the audio signal goes directly to the Node. 

@rockrider DUDE!!!!  If you are in the Atlanta area, I owe you dinner. You nailed it. I had no idea I was to control the source through the Blusound app. Problem solved. DAC recognizes high resolution just fine. All is good. Will stick with Qobuz and the Bluesound interface. No more Bluetooth. Really appreciate you sticking with it. Whew!  

 

Bluetooth? No no no no no.

Yep, that's exactly what I said when I read the OP was using bluetooth. That is one tooth that must be extracted from any audiophile's system with extreme prejudice. 😆

Glad you figured it out @chocaholic! Enjoy, and happy holidays from Arizona!

@chocaholic 

I can Google with the best!  

Then there must be another reason why you have a Denafrips yet did not know that they bypass the MQA scam.

@fuzztone Well, yes. I had no idea what MQA was, so it wasn’t a consideration. 
 

Thanks again to all for your help. Happy holidays!

MQA is a crappy solution to a problem that doesn't exist anymore.

Happy HoliDaze to you too.

Chocoholic,

Now if you really want to up the ante, use Ethernet directly to the Node from your switch and only use BlueOS for control…..or leave it the hell alone if you’re happy. Unfortunately I don’t understand that philosophy 

@vthokie83 

What if our modem and router is located on the floor above and on the opposite side of our house from the Node?  Isn’t a very long Ethernet cable problematic?

Probably no worth it….mine is 4 feet away 

@tcotruvo Standard Cat6 Ethernet cable is rated to 10Gbps over 180 feet. That’s probably at least 10x the bandwidth from your ISP even if you have fiber, and more than 1000 times the bandwidth of HiRes audio streaming…