Power amplifier longevity… thoughts?

You can get an almost new hegel h390 for about $3000. Maybe $3200. It’ll drive almost anything and no need to worry about old caps. 

@atmasphere thanks, unfortunately they are out of my budget, but must sound great.

@milpai yes, the A21 is a beast and I love Parasound gear. I will try to find one used. I believe that they not so common here in Europe.

@audiofilo123 ,

Obviously Atmasphere has his own Class D amps as his reference. They are very favorable reviewed. Unfortunately they are a bit bit more costly than your stated budget.

If you are looking for older amplifiers then the Parasound Halo A21 might be a good idea. There is a Parasound forum - look it up. You should see a lot of discussions about people using the Halo amps with Maggies (as they call them).

@audiofilo123 I'm using my own (Atma-Sphere). There are others that are getting similar comments, such as the AGD Audion.

@atmasphere that makes sense, Class A amps probably will require maintenance before  other types. That said, my interest lays on 5 to 15 year old amps, after that I consider them to risky.

What are the Class D you have as a reference?

@audiofilo123 As a general rule of thumb, the cooler the amp runs the longer it will last. Electrolytic capacitors, which are used in the power supplies of most electronics, don't like heat and so last longer in a cooler environment.

To give you an idea of this, in tube equipment the filter capacitors might go about 20-25 years; in a solid state amp they might go 30-35 years.

Since class D runs the coolest of any amplifiers, it follows that they will also last the longest. Some class D amps easily rival the best of class A amps (whether tube or solid state) as well.

@audiofilo123

Yes, it’s interesting that amps that aren’t as powerful can sound better. I think it’s roughly correlated with damping factor.  The Bryston, with 100w into 4 ohms, sounded very good indeed.   Its damping factor into 4 ohms is about 250.  Always best to listen first, of course.  If you can’t hear an amp with the Magnepans, the best bet would probably be amps with very low output impedance/high damping factor.  Enjoy!

@cdorval1 at the dealer, I have listened the 1.7i with an EAM integrated (made in Italy) and they sounded ok - it was my first real Magnepan experience - but now, after living with the LRS+ for a month, listening daily, I must say that amp lacked some grip on the speakers, evident in some hardness on the voices on some recordings. Also the room was a bit small for them.

Looks like power and current aren’t necessarily for the Maggies to play loud, but to control the frequencies at both extremes… just what I have concluded so far, am I right?

Surprisingly, on the other hand, I am currently using a Naim Nap 150X (around 75w / 4 Ohms) and it surpasses in control all the >250w / 4 Ohms high current amplifiers in my collection.

I was in a very similar position about 7 years ago, looking for a used amplifier that would easily drive Magnepan 1.7s.  I tried a Bryston B60, Hegel H2O, and a Devialet Expert 200.  They all worked well and sounded very good, and they are all in your price range used. My preference, and what I’ve stuck with, was the Devialet. But that’s me. You’ll have your own personal preference.  Each of these units was about 5 or 6 years old when I bought them, and they all were very dependable. I’m still using the Bryston also. 
 

enjoy!

I have owned and used my Proceed HPA-2 for 6 years.  Mark Levinson designed dual monoaural beast that can go 500w/4 ohms.  My Time Frame 2000s are 8-4 ohms, 92 db sensitivity and rated to 1000w.

When I owned a bigger house I enjoyed turning up the music past local listenability and do things around the house including electric mowing the lawn.  Unleashing the latent dynamism of my system always made me (and it) smile.  My point is I have driven this amp well past normal use for a long time.

As I understand one of the hallmarks of a Levinson design was all discrete components.  I suspect many of the older amps discussed here are of the same design philosophy.  Relatively easy to troubleshoot and repair. As far as I can tell my output transistors are still made.

I suspect most amp candidates here are massively overbuilt for most use.  I know mine is.  Most any machine is killed more by frequent start stop than actual use.  The preamp end of this amp is always powered as indicated by a separate light on the very sparse panel.

These amps are still around for 1200-1500.  I worry WAY more about something giving out on one of my TFs than my amp.

Although I'm not a HT guy the fact that a HPA-3, tri monoaural amp with the same power is available for folks that like all channels powered the same.

It's great to have choices!

audiofilo123

I personally would not buy a 20 year old amplifier, for various reasons that I do not know the provenance, and would expect some repair expenses......but I must admit that I've never owned any planar speaker.

I am not against used by any means, but I'd be more apt to buy something newer (even used): Hegel H20 (130 amps), CODA, Pass Labs, or Sanders

I have an Onix & Soap I purchased in 1987 and a Mac MC250 c. 1980 that work and sound perfectly fine.

I'm about in the same boat.  My MMGs are fed by a B&K EX-442 Sonata w/Toshiba cans that is early 90s ('90 - '93, not sure which year).  No issues whatsoever with sound or performance, but I've been preparing myself to ship it to John Hillig at Musical Concepts/Musical Design to have it refreshed with one of his B&K mods.  Probably do it when I head down to Florida this winter, as I won't be needing it for a few months while gone.   

@audiofilo123 I recommend the following amplifier brands;

- Bryston 4B Series

- Rotel

- HEGEL

- Luxman integrated

I’m sure there are other good/reliable amps out there, but I’m sharing the brands that I own/owned in my systems.

I bought the Bryston 4B SST in the early 2000’s and sold it to my buddy a few years ago and I never had a problem with it and my buddy loves it.

I bought a 5-channel Rotel amplifier in the early 2000’s for my surround sound setup and I still have it. It’s a reliable unit that’ I’ve never had a problem with!

I currently own a HEGEL H160 integrated in my second system and it’s a really nice unit that cost me under $2k from The Music Room a few years ago.

The mighty Luxman L-509x integrated was a glorious piece of equipment that I bought new for my main system a few years ago. It’s still over the budget that you mentioned in the used market, but you could try to find one of the lesser expensive models that has the wattage you need for the Maggie’s. Luxman is the real deal. I sold it to go back to separates, then I recently moved back to an integrated for my main system. I wish I kept the Luxman, but it was too expensive to use in my second system, so I sold it to use the money for the main system upgrade.

Godspeed to you!

@devinplombier I appreciate the advice. Pass Labs uses a current limiting supply. I don't have one of those and they are pricy. I might try using an ac variac with a series of increased wattage incandescent bulbs in series with the line cord. 

Between new and 20+ years old gear there is a large gap.  Haven’t had phono in decades but have bought most of my gear demo or 3-5 years old selecting well thought of brands and had no problem with gear lasting 10+ years usually more after I bought it.

You can have brand new Red Dragon M1000 monoblocks for $1600. Plenty of power for any Mangepan. 

Not every amp can be repaired (or upgraded) without the original schematic. So the who that should care is anyone buying a 20+ yr old amp whose manufacturer is out of business. 

Don’t let the fear mongering get to you, who cares how old an amp is ? Secondly who cares if the company is still in business. It’s electronics virtually everything is replaceable outside of cosmetic i.e. case, buttons, knobs, that sort of thing. Exceptional quality equipment of the past when you’re talking amplifiers would still rate higher end today. Research find the end game, restore, financially you’ll come out way ahead IMO, has for me many times over.

Cheers 

I use a McIntosh MC7270 amp with a C 712.. These units are easy to get serviced and are built to last a century.  The C 712 recently needed a new power supply.  I sent it to George Wilson and had it back in a week with a full tune up. 

@philliprcook Some folks recommend gently powering up long-unused equipment on a variac at 30V for 12 hrs, 60V for another 6 hours, and on. I may try this on some components I have coming out of storage, but maybe some folks here have done it?

I'm new here and I don't want to do anything inappropriate but awhile back I posted that I have a new Pass Labs X5 power amp that has never been installed (boxed up for over 20 years). I asked for suggestions about powering this unit up after being stored so long. The best suggestion was to contact Pass Labs. I did and they were very helpful and offered to (for a price) test it for me but I think I'll do it myself when I have some time. I was originally planning on using it myself but I think I'll get rid of it. Anybody here have an Idea of what I should list it for here if it works?

There are some valid points to all threads above, but a well designed product can last for decades. As far as PSU caps go, better amps will use higher temp rated caps (105 deg. C vs. 85 deg. C). High temperature operation is killer for caps. I have an Onix & Soap I purchased in 1987 and a Mac MC250 c. 1980 that work and sound perfectly fine. Tempest in a tea cup?

I own a Yamaha M70 I bought in 1982 had it tuned up this past year for the first time it still sound good in my living room. I have an Emotiva XPA5 I bought new in 2012 it still sounds awesome in my movie set up and currently am running a Pass Labs XA-25 in my main listening system I expect all of them to still be running when my kids divide up the my Will. Of all components I would be the least concerned about a power amps durability. My 2 cents. 

I love tub gear but at 20 years old there will be some issues with sockets, hot resistors and weeping caps. If you are not handy with a soldering iron budget for repairs.

Maggies LOVE Bryston 4B SST or 7B SST (or the cubed series if you have the budget). They come with a 20 year transferable warranty and have great sonic performance. Figure about 4K for a pair of 7B SST mono bocks with 700 watts. I have a pair that I use for my bass drivers and really have grown to love them.  (I use an Audio research VT 130 stereo amp to drive the mids/tweeters) 

@OP - to answer your specific question - no, "those large caps, the size of a can of beer" do not last longer. The electrolytic PSU reservoir caps are the most common point of failure in older amplifiers. If the amp is knocking around 20 years old, replacing those caps is pretty much essential preventative maintenance. But pretty much any component in an amp can fail over time.

+1 onhwy61 

Who stated - "Of the amps you listed the Ayre would generally be considered a higher quality amp than the others."

If you go for an Ayre, they are still in business. I recently had Ayre replace/upgrade the capacitors in my Amp, and they sound great.  

The service is excellent. You could drop-ship your purchase to them, have it bench tested and upgraded before it is installed in your system.

best of luck...

Schiit Audio +1

Particularly the Vidar (ver. 1) used as mono blocks. I currently run with Maggie 1.7i’s.

Try Schiit!

Thanks for all the suggestions but I forgot to mention that:

- I live in Europe (230v / 50-60hz)

- my budget is up to €2500 / $2775

Although my main goal is to drive the LRS+, my question is about power amplifiers longevity and the risk of buying a 20+ years piece. From all the answers there is an indicator that most prefer to buy new.

My problem is that my budget doesn’t buy a new amp with the right specs for the LRS+ so I am “forced” to look in the used market.

Totally agree with the need to buy a brand that still exists, although I have some less happy experiences that way, with active companies no longer supporting their past products at all!

Right now, the Hegel H190 integrated and the Ayre V-1x power amp are the less risky propositions, both bought from a dealer, but I would love to have other choices.

I had an Audio Research Vt-100 amp and Audible Illusions preamp combo for over 20 years. I wish I would’ve kept them both and started a second system. Great sound together.

I suggest you try a newer but used Krell.   The newer ones with the iBias technology are wonderful, stable, powerful, and sound simply like music.

• KRELL Duo 175XD

I suggest you try a newer but used Krell.   The newer ones with the iBias technology are wonderful, stable, powerful, and sound simply like music.

I have the LRS+ and have listened to a lot of amps on the LRS+. After a lot of online research, I found out that the Sanders MagTech maybe the dark horse amp for the LRS+. I had a 30-day home trial from Roger Sanders for a used amp and it was the 2nd best amp on the LRS+. Roger said he designed the amp for Maggies (Mag - Tech). He also said I would love it on the LRS+. I think after 2 days I said I would keep the used amp. The amp was built by CODA.

The best amp I have had on the LRS+ is the CODA #16. It also cost a lot more than the MagTech.

I am thinking of getting the much more expensive Luxman M10x or SimAudio 761 amp next year to replace the Sanders, but those two amps cost a lot more. I want another amp along with my CDA #16 that will work great on both my speakers.  This is so that I can rotate them. The MagTech is great on the LRS+ but just good on my Yamaha NS5000 speaker.

I see a Sanders on USAM for under $4k.

Some amps that I have owned and would be good with the LRS+:

• CODA #8
• Parasound A21+
• KRELL Duo 175XD

i have a just rebuilt mccormack dna 500 by jeff of conrad johnson up for sale on us audio mart,  under conrad johnson that will make those puppies sing, let me know.....500w per channel.

Hegel integrated amps!!!

Don't know how much you plan on spending but Pass makes an excellent pairing with Maggie's. The Parasound Halo integrated is also a good combo.

I don't think I'd invest much in a 20 year old model.

Good luck

Here’s another SMcAudio amp with more than enough power and basically a new amp as of 2015 with the Ultra upgrades.  Best of luck. 

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650135552-mccormack-smc-audio-ultra-15-dna-1-power-amplifier-upgraded/

I trialed the Atmasphere Class D amp at my dealer. We used a number of different amps, but the Atma did well with the Maggies. I believe it was a larger model than the LRS.

Bob

I would highly recommend this amp on US Audiomart.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650019907-mccormack-dna-05-with-smc-ultra-upgrades/

If the company is no longer in business should be a strong warning sign against purchasing.  I've read that modern caps and resistors can go 20-30 years with no problems.  Of the amps you listed the Ayre would generally be considered a higher quality amp than the others.  Good luck!