Not sure if I placed it in the correct topic but here goes. I was just wondering how power conditioners work, as I want to buy one. There are conditioners with only filtered inputs and conditioners with some filtered inputs and some unfiltered. I believe the unfiltered ones are for analogue devices. But why should these go into the unfiltered part? If I buy a power conditioner for example with only filtered inputs, will I not be able to put my class A amp in? Or will it have a negative effect?
Clean power is very important for good sound quality. How important depends on how noisy your electrical environment is. If you get this right then room correction/control, vibration and rfi/emf control being the other battles you need to fight.
If you want to hear how you might benefit from a power conditioner listen to your familiar tracks then go to your consumer unit and turn off as much of the rest of your house as you dare. If you have stuff on the same ring as the music system unplug anything you can too. Now listen again. If you hear a good improvement then you can benefit from a power conditioner.
Cakyol please try this too. Modern electrics can be very noisy indeed. All those switch mode power supplies for our phones, tablets , routers, ethernet switches.... noisy. LEDs noisy especially if you have dimmable ones. This noise can be well outside of audible frequencies so may not always be measurable at the output of a DAC but this can play havoc with soundstage.
Eriks blog is a cost effective solution. I went for 2nd hand Isotek Sigmas gen 2 and DIY DC blocking power cord.
My 20 year old Shunyata Hydra 8 was great. Used it with Audioquest Hurricane and Tornado cords. But, the power amp went directly to the wall. Brought home an Audioquest 5000 and could hear no difference, no improvement. Boy was my dealer annoyed when I brought it back. Sometime later picked up a Shunyata Denali... what a nice improvement. Everything goes into it including the 150WPC tube power amp. I think we all have somewhat different situations to be addressed almost by trial and error of equipment solutions.
@cakyol - I sincerely wished you were correct in the case of my particular system, that it would make no significant positive difference. However, I cannot simply go back, it does sound better.. it just does.
And it's not just my amplifier plugged into it, everything is.
I had a quick look at the first power supply (sorry it's late and I need to hit the hay as I work tomorrow) and didn't see the technology I spoke of in it. After the transformers I didn't see any inductors?? I didn't see the second circuit sorry.
I am sure there are some exceptional filtering circuits in high end gear, I guess mine isn't that high end and the conditioner helped? Something like YMMV?
Many of you here use surge suppressors and conditioners to achieve some level of SQ improvement but where I live lightning is fairly common, as it is in most areas of the central and eastern US. Having one of these devices may one day save your precious equipment as it did mine one day several years ago when lightening stuck our house and destroyed the power conditioner but not the equipment plugged into it (not true for a bedroom TV however).
I borrowed a chart recorder we use at my job and monitored our voltage fluctuations during the time of some extreme heat this summer and recorded line voltage fluctuations of +/- 5 volts from 110 to 122 VAC.
I can't say I notice a SQ improvement with one in my system but it sure makes me feel a little better when a bad thunderstorm forces me to turn everything off and even unplug it and other sensitive equipment from the wall, but what if I'm not home, then my fingers are crossed. I don't have enough money to waste suing the power company, they will ultimately win.
rbach604, suggest going beyond the conditioner and also have an electrician install a home home surge suppressor at the panel. I live in a suburb of Memphis and we get lots of lightning with storms and glad I did. Twice lightning was so bad that it took one of those out but no damage to anything else. Far cheaper , even if it has to get replaced, than replacing my power conditioner or anything else
@facten , +1. A whole house surge protector is a great investment. The units are self sacrificing, but at least you will protect everything downstream. Bob
My electric company put a whole house surge protector behind the electric meter. It's something only the utility can do, but is the best way to prevent surge. It comes with a multi-thousand dollar insurance policy. Costs $10/mo. on my bill. On plugging the amp directly into the wall vs. into the power conditioner, my NAD M3 integrated stated in the manual it should be plugged directly into the wall. I did research this and there is a difference in plugging into the wall vs. into the power conditioner depending on whether one is using separates or an integrated and depending on the component manufacturer's instructions.
I looked at the Shunyata Research Venom Defender AC Power Line Reducer and even though I have worked in AC power systems I can't begin to tell what it does (or might do). I am not trolling or trying to thread crap.
My question for all of you who have purchased these (what I consider to be questionable and esoteric) power "conditioning" products, is this: have you tried just a UPS that produces perfect sine wave power? Seems like that would deal with all the potential issues you might have including voltage fluctuation, line noise from other (non-audio) connected devices, etc. Plus, it would in all likelihood be much cheaper and quite possibly provide surge protection (though I'm not certain about that).
Hello, What I find helpful in this regard is star grounding and grounding using one receptacle outlet. I have two dedicated circuits each feeds a Nordost distribution unit which uses star grounding inside the box. Each distribution box has one outlet dedicated for grounding, meaning all connections would ground through that outlet only. So I connect the pre-amplifier to one such grounding outlet in one distribution box and keep the other grounding outlet empty in the other distribution box. This allows me to use two dedicated circuits yet ground using one receptacle outlet, very much needed for lowering the noise floor. This gives me the best performance. I tried using Shuniyata, Clarus and a few other power conditioners including the one that Nordost has but none of them really worked as per my satisfaction. Regardless of the sequence of how I connected these power conditioners to the Nordost distribution box, the performance was not at par. So the bottom line, I could not leave the Nordost power distribution units out of my two channel system. Given that Nordost distribution boxes don’t do any power conditioning I could only attribute that performance gain to the star grounding and a little bit to their micro mono-filament technology.
Additionally I use 10 gauge Romex wire and Furutech GTX NCF-R receptacle each of which adds to the enhanced system performance.
Another thing that added to my AC power performance was the set of upgraded electronics. Very recently I have upgraded my DAC, Pre & Power Amplifiers to all Bricasti units from mostly Parasound components and I found that they are relatively less susceptible to AC quality issues. All these didn’t complete solve the AC power quality issues in my system because the system performance is not consistent throughout the day and it sounds the best at 2:00 AM. However I don’t feel stressed thinking about the AC power quality issue now than before and moved my focus from the AC power to something else in my two channel system... Thanks.
I m not convinced about active power conditioners in front of power amps, nor of low voltage devices, for that matter. All have an impact on the sound, not always for the better, either because of shifts in phase, compression or emphasis of parts of the frequency spectrum. In my experience the best results can be obtained by installing a separate spur all the way to the mains box and then employing passive filters. Highly recommended: Acoustic Revive RTP-4. My power amp is a Wavac EC300B and short of $30,000 Wavac power conditioning I have found nothing that comes even close.
They are not snake oil. I had a very slight (but audible) buzz/hum with nothing playing and the volume at a normal level. Put in a Furman 15 and the noise vanished. I don't know what they are talking about with extra wall warts. You plug the Furman in to the wall and everything else you want into it. It even has different outlets for amps, low current, and video. Peace of mind and less noise. And for less than $1K - even less if used.
"I was wondering if there are power conditioners that can solve the spikes you hear over the speakers when you switch on or off the lights?"
A series-mode surge suppressor should take care of that very nicely. In my case, I would hear a thump from the speakers whenever the ceiling fan in the room was turned off.
Zero Surge and Brick Wall offer units that are inexpensive ($250-$300). Audioquest also offers the Niagra 1200 but it's considerably more expensive ($1,000).
Cakyo , LOL , another guy that doesn't need actually hear said component in his system . Is there some Julian Hirsh fan club you belong too we aren’t hearing about ? I ask because there are a few members here on Audiogon that claim they don’t need to listen to said components to know how it performs. If you don’t want to take that step to actually listen to a AC conditioner like a couple brands mentioned here or you have and you just can’t hear the effects of a lowered noise floor then try and get yourself a broadband AC power supply ripple analyzer , that would be a good start .
I wonder if it’s measurable at all to measure the noise inside the device (amp or whatever). All everyone is talking about is the noice from the main outlet. That’s not even interesting as the amp itself does filtering itself too.
Dannad , I’m sorry I didn’t read any of your comments nor was I responding to you ,....
Sjeejie for those whom like measurements I have access of measurements and it’s interesting doing these tests from a standard household wall socket to comparison of dedicated lines too home trial of some of these AC components some that market outlandish claims to the unsuspecting. Some very expensive components failed these tests and some did perform as claimed.
My response does not answer your question but I felt tempted to write.
I was given seriously expensive power conditioners and cables with filters (can't remember the brands) as home demo items long time ago. To me they did not make any difference at all.
May I ask to those who say otherwise, do people around you also hear a difference? An audiophile buddy etc..
Before spending money on a power conditioner I would run a separate spur from the junction box and try passive EMI/RMI suppression. I have great experience with Acoustic Revive powercables and RTP multi-connectors
To those who say PLCs don’t work, I say, you haven’t heard really good ones. Many that I have owned obscured the music; PS Audio Power Plant, Furman; my
BPT was pretty good though
I have a 20amp dedicated line to my system outlet, but still benefit from my CorePower 1800, which I bought to handle all my equipment; digital, preamp/dac, power amps. At the moment I am no longer using a preamp/dac, and could easily get along with their new 600 and possibly their Deep Core.
I did find that my EVS1200 class D dual mono amp, based on IcePower1200AS modules sounds much better direct though. But it doesn’t have a super-duper power supply, as has been suggested
CorePower from Underwood HiFi is incredible and reasonably priced.
To anyone who doubts the efficacy of a good power conditioner because they haven't heard a difference, I'd like to know if your gear has lights, meters or displays that can be turned off.
If so, try turning them off to see if you can hear a difference. If you can't, then it's you and not the conditioner, or, your system is simply not resolving enough.
I say this because when I first got my Marantz Reference gear (integrated and SACD player), I tired it with the display on or off and couldn't hear a difference. That was before I got my Niagara 1200 and the Isoacoustic Oreas. On a lark, I tried it again and the difference was big enough to make me reconsider a lot of things.
There's now so much more air, separation, detail and nuances laid bare that those dirty LED displays were injecting noise back into the gear and superimposing itself on the music, blurring things more than just a little. The line noise was so dirty that it helped cover the negative contributions of the LEDs.
Before my getting the Niagara 1200, I thought LEDs and displays had no real effect at all.
the answer is yes - others heard the difference easily. I have had a number of conditioners in the past. None were cheap and none really made a sizable difference, but I wanted to protect gear. My dealer suggested I audition a Niagara 5000. The difference was plainly and immediately audible. I didn’t have to squint and ask myself what was I hearing. My reaction about 5 seconds into the audition was “crap now I’ll be spending $4k”. Obviously, every situation is different such as quality of power coming into the house and the gear you’re using, so YMMV. For what it’s worth, my local dealer told me that every customer who’s auditioned the Niagara at home has purchased one. I was sincerely hoping to prove him wrong.
I use SurgeX for all my network stuff, modem, router, NAS and a separate one for cable box, TV, sound bar.
I have dedicated 20amp circuits in another room for my main system, and use a Shunyata Denali 6000S/ V.2 for everything except subwoofer which is on its own circuit and it has a Shunyata Venom Defender on it. And of course if I’m getting a huge massive lightning storm I just disconnect everything.
@sjeesjie, Did you get the power conditioner or still on the fence? I have a Inakustik AC-3500p in my system and love it. No negative on anything, except everything improves, at least in my system.
I installed the UBER-BUSS power conditioner from Pi Audio Group in my system about 6 weeks ago. I have all components plugged into it.
It was an improvement in SQ for my system, in my house. No loss of dynamics or details - in fact, improvement there.
I live in Florida and summertime is tough time for enjoying my system - it’s just not right during the day, and sometimes not at night. I’m guessing it’s all the AC conditioners. With the Uber-Buss, I’m getting great sound in the middle of the day when it’s 90+ degrees outside. Something that never happened before.
FWIW, I have one of those Entech AC noise measurement devices. When I measured soon after installing the Uber-buss, at the outlet of my dedicated line, it measured 270mv of "noise". Plugged into the UBER-Buss, it was 40mv.
I tried a Plixir 150 balanced ac transformer - plugged into the Uber-buss, and my dac and streamer plugged into it. Maybe dynamics were slightly better, but overall a slight dip in SQ. In fact, with the Entech, the "noise" out of the Plixir was 750mv. Weird.
Happy with the Uber-Buss. Worth the price in my opinion.
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