Better do your due diligence when it comes to tube purchases. A wide variety brands, hierarchy within brands, NOS vs. new, distributors, shippers. And then the vagaries of circuit design within the tube equipment. Blame for failures often confused.
Purchase tubes from well regarded distributors/retailers, testing of tubes at this level important. Make sure tube specs match the equipment it's being placed in, many tube equipment manufacturers run their tubes hot, not good for reliability. I've seen many repeated tube failures in certain equipment over the years, tubes get the blame when blame should have been assigned to equipment manufacturer. Shipping extremely problematic, expect handing of packages to be severe, either immediate failure of tubes or shortened tube life to be expected, extreme measures in safely packing tubes needed.
Being observant of all the above I've had widely variable experience with tubes over the years. NOS/New production aprox. same for longevity/reliability. Mostly I've had good luck with tubes since I've paid attention to above. As for Psvane, I've had a couple failures of 101DWE, this due to excess heater voltage, once heater resistor changed out no more failures. No issues with lower level Psvane or Acme 300B's, various 845's.
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@alightronics
So, I did purchase a matched pair of the Psavne Acme 845's from AliExpress.
I must say they do sound very nice. However, periodically the 845 in the right channel will make a disturbing noise for a few seconds right at the time I turn the amplifier on and then the noise goes away never to return during that listening session that may be for about 3 hours long. However, the next day or night I want to listen again, the noise happens yet again when I first power up the amplifier.
It's only the right tube, never the left. It only lasts for a few seconds and then goes away until I have to turn the amp on again.
I have two other sets of 845's, both different brands and this does not happen at all with those.
What is goin on here with these Acme tubes? Other than the start up noise, they sound amazing. To the point that I was thinking of ordering another pair for backup, but not if they are not going to last.
Please advise me as to what is happening.
Thank you and best wishes,
Don
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Just to add to the post above. The noise the 845 makes in the right channel upon turning on the amplifier is kinda of like....
Phfffiiisssst... it only lasts for about 3-5 seconds and then goes away for the rest of the listening session. It only happens upon start up. It's unnerving and very unsettling when it happens as it makes me afraid it going to either ruin my amp or my speaker.
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@no_regrets
Understood. I suggest you contact the dealer for a replacement. This issue might be caused by internal component loosening during long-distance shipping and multiple handlings.
Please rest assured, our Acme series has been sold for many years and has never caused any equipment damage.
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@alightronics
When you say... "This issue might be caused by internal component loosening during long-distance shipping and multiple handlings."
I find that to be a very plausible explanation of what may have happened to the tube in question.
I went onto the AliExpress website and was looking all over the site for how I could initiate contact with them to discuss the noise issue that I'm having - with one tube of the matched pair of 845 Acme tubes that I had ordered. I couldn't for the life of me find how I can contact them.
Then a pop-up appeared asking to do a live chat and that they are there to help me. I clicked on it and had a long back and forth discussion with them where I explained the noise issue that happens upon start up, etc. They arranged for a return shipping label and said that I could return the tubes and that after their inspection my money would be refunded. I explained to the "chat person" that I simply wanted a replacement matched pair that actually works without defect, to be sent to me and that I did not want a refund. They then responded that I needed to contact the seller! I said that I thought this whole time I was communicating with the seller (AliExpress). They said no, we are just a "chat service" assisting the merchant!
I still do not know how to contact AliExpress! I guess I will have to just return the tubes via the return label provided; hope and pray I actually get my money refunded. I only say this because the return label receiving address is in Beverly, New Jersey USA. I thought AliExpress was in China? Along with the simple fact that I was not able to actually talk with anyone from AliExpress.
I will have to think long and hard to decide if I want to take another chance on ordering these again.
Although, I will say that these tubes sounded amazing in my amplifier and I was thrilled by that! So much so, that I was actually contemplating ordering a second matched pair for back up. However, the stress and anxiety of trying to return them and not being able to communicate with the seller is very frustrating to me and I'm not sure if it is worth it to me at the moment.
I guess I will wait and see if I actually receive my refund and then make my decision at that point.
Best wishes,
Don aka No_regrets
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@no_regrets
Hi Don,
May I ask which store you purchased from on AliExpress? AliExpress collects a deposit from sellers, so it is likely that you will receive an automatic refund once the seller receives the returned item.
If you are located in the United States, we would recommend purchasing from our store on Amazon in the future.
Kind regards
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@alightronics
Hello,
I had thought that AliExpress was the store that I had purchase the tubes from. Looking at the box they were shipped in, I see a very small label that says the following...
Shenzhen Dingwan Electronics Co.
405 Building A No.95-INanlian Community Botanical Garden Road Longgang Strc
Shenzhen City, Guangdong Province, China.
However, the address on the return shipping label is address to:
Cititrans - A
801 Bridgeboro Road Building 4
Beverly, NJ 08010-1762
Best wishes,
Don
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Looking at my PayPal invoice it says...
Merchant
ALIPAY US, INC.
I have to admit, this is all very confusing to me.
When I had ordered the tubes, I don't believe that I had seen them available on Amazon at that time.
However, I do see that they are listed for sale now on Amazon being sold via Salience Hi-Fi Audio for a higher price and with only a 12 month warranty and a return window of only 30 days.
Whomever I bought my tubes from says a warranty of 2 years with a return window of 90 days and the cost was less than on Amazon.
I did just now receive an automated email from AliExpress that they are awaiting my return shipment though. On the invoice it says GD-PARTS Audio Store.
So, I have no idea who I bought these tubes from...
Did I buy them from....
1. Shenzhen Dingwan Electronics Co
2. Cititrans - A
3. AliExpress
4. GD-PARTS Audio Store
I'm embarrassed to say that I really do not have a clue.
Best wishes,
Don
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@no_regrets
Hi Don,
Based on the information you provided, the seller should be GD-PARTS Audio Store. As for the purchasing channels, you can choose the one you think offers the best price. All Acme series products currently sold on the market are genuine.
If you do not receive a refund after some time, please contact us. We will investigate and resolve the issue for you.
We are very sorry for the inconvenience caused to you.
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@alightronics
Thank you for your correspondence with me via this forum and giving me assurance that I will at least receive a refund, one way or another.
I will be shipping these tubes back this morning, using the return shipping label that was provided.
I hope all goes well... if so, I may give them another chance and try to order another matched pair as I did really love the sound of these tubes. I just really wish that they didn't arrive defective, because now I am nervous about having to go thru this all over again.
Either way, I will report back with a follow up and let you know if the refund was received or not.
Thank you and best wishes,
Don
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@no_regrets
You’re welcome, and thank you for your trust in me.
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For anyone who would like to take advantage of ordering Chinese tubes (Shuguang, PSVane, Linlai, Fullmusic, etc) directly from China, I can highly recommend jjyaudio.com. The owner Helen is great to deal with, you can get tubes 30% less than US suppliers, she stands behind her products, she uses fast shipping, and customer service has been great.....tracking updates, follow up emails after delivery, and asking to reach out to her if anything is not correct.
I've used them for a bunch of EL34 ppower tubes, and various 6SN7 tubes....as have several of my audiophile friends. Prices just a tad higher than aliexpress, but from a reliable Chinese supplier
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I just purchased the Horizon preamp tubes in my Mac 352 hybrid. I must say these tubes are everything the rep said. I had gold lions in before which I preferred over the stock jj’s. Much smoother and musical with no missing extensions. I am very happy with these tubes.
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@vthokie83 - too bad jjyaudio doesn't employ a secure website
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@dwest1023
What tube type did you buy?
From where did you buy them?
Please let us know how the tubes longevity is?
Best wishes,
Don
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I purchased the Horizon psvane 12ax7a and 12at7. I purchased them from Amazon. Sine the tubes just arrived today 7/14/24 I can’t vouch for longevity yet. I will say this, no matter how long they last, they will be replaced with same. These tubes have transformed my Mac. I did not know the amp was even capable of sounding this good.The bass is much improved with these tubes. Vocals are just uncanny compared to other tubes I’ve tried.
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facten, that is true; and I wish she had. Though I've never had any issue ordering from them
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@dwest1023
I'm excited for you and the improved sound that you are experiencing with these new tubes!
I hope they give you many, many hours of great listening enjoyment :)
Best wishes,
Don
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@vthokie83 ordering isn't the issue with an unsecured website the issue is none of your information is e.g. credit card, etc
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@alightronics
Sure would be nice for the Horizon series 12AX7s make a great $$ showing for Amazon Prime days... Just sayin...
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These,Horizon sound so good in my mac they are well worth the regular price.
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@markmuse
We regret to inform you that we currently have no plans.
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@alightronics
Thanks for the reply. I ordered a pair of 12au7's instead. Looking forward to hear how they compare to the bugle boys I am listening to now.
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@markmuse Thank you for your order! We hope you enjoy the listening experience!
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I recently purchased Psvane Horizon 12BH7 from Amazon. At $58.99 for a pair, the price was right. They arrived in a lightly bubbled envelope with no additional packaging other than the Psvane boxes they came in. These tubres should not just be shoved into an envelope with nothing else.
The tubes had no visual damage. So far they sound pretty good in a circuit that includes much more expensive tubes. I cannot speak of the Psvane Horizon longevity because they only have a few hours on them
The packaging from Amazon is a big concern though. Mine arrived safely but the next shipment could easily have tubes damaged through poor packaging. Because of this, I will not buy more expensive Psvane tubes like the ACME 274B unless there is better assurance around Amazon packaging.
The Horizon series is priced low enough so may be worth the risk, but even those should have better packaging.
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@riparian
OMG, I can’t believe Amazon would use an envelope for packaging! According to their original promise, this should have been placed in a box with proper padding. Thank God your items weren’t damaged. Thank you for informing us about this situation. We will seriously look into how to address this in future packaging. If your product gets damaged, please contact Amazon for a return promptly.
For our ACME products sold on Amazon, we ship them directly from China. Before shipping, we ensure they are packaged with sufficient strength and ample padding. Please rest assured.
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Got my 12au7’s today. Same bubble bag as above. But they were undamaged. Listening now. They sound great!
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Do tubes ‘burn in’? Can’t say I’ve noticed a change in any tube over time, but what do I know.
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"For our ACME products sold on Amazon, we ship them directly from China. Before shipping, we ensure they are packaged with sufficient strength and ample padding."
How do you ensure that since you've stated Saleince isn't part of Psvane that it is simply another vendor?
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I've always found about 40-50 hours of burn-in for most tubes. Some have taken longer. YMMV.
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I have to say these Horizon 12au7’s are really nice! More full bodied than the Amperex BB’s I had in there. Given the rest of my system (now using LRS+) the increase in warmth and pace is welcome. Really nice. The previous tubes were kinda thread bare in comparison.
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@markmuse
I am surprised that you observed the Horizon 12au7’s sounding more full bodied than the Amperex BB’s. I thought that it would be the other way. I think that the tube sound is very system dependent. In my preamp, I found the Horizon 12au7’s sounding nice and clear but a little thin for my taste. Re-issued Gold Lion 12au7’s have fuller midrange, tighter bass, and more holographic sound.
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@markmuse
Our recommendation is to burn in the tubes for about 50 hours to allow them to stabilize.
During this burn-in period, if you notice that the sound remains consistent without significant changes, it indicates that the tubes have reached a stable state.
While we suggest 50 hours, it's not mandatory; some reviewers find that 4 hours are sufficient.
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@ampus
What is your preamp? Mine is a Backert Labs Rhythm 1.3+ (has the brass plate). I will add that this is with only a few hours on them so far, but hope it doesn't change.
@alightronics
Thanks!
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i cant believe youd say something like that, @alightronics. they do this kind of thing all the time. havent you ever ordered anything from amazon? they stick records in envelopes.
"OMG, I can’t believe Amazon would use an envelope for packaging! "
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@markmuse
I have an Octave preamp which actually uses 4 ECC82/12AU7 tubes. I have tried a number of NOS as well as new production tubes and prefer RT and Gold Lions in combination with Amperex/Philips tubes. Don’t get me wrong, the Horizon is a very good sounding tube, especially for its price, but it sounds a little thin in my system. If the Horizons already sound nice in your system then they should even sound better after burning in although I thought that Psvane website said that all Horizon tubes are subjected to factory burn-in after production??
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@ampus
Yes. The burn-in test is a part of our quality control process. After a 24-hour burn-in test, we conduct another inspection to eliminate any tubes with quality issues.
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@alightronics Still confused on your 300b tubes. What Quality category do the following tubes fall under and are they still current? Are they considered Art?
Cossor blue glass
Cossor dark glass
Mark II grey glass
Treasure z black glass
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@tksteingraber Sorry, I don't get your questions. Would you please make easier to understand ?
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@alightronics what hierarchy category are these tubes?
Cossor blue glass
Cossor dark glass
Mark II grey glass
Treasure z black glass
The hierarchy of our product line is as follows:
Basic：HIFI、UK
Selected：HORIZON、ART
Premium：WE、ACME
Also, are they current tubes or discontinued tubes? What tubes are ART I have not seen any labeled ART
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@tksteingraber
1. The two Cossor tubes you mentioned are customized tubes. Besides retail, Psvane also manufactures tubes for many audio and musical instrument brands worldwide. Due to the differences in performance and application environments required by each brand, these products cannot be directly compared with our retail products. Moreover, we have confidentiality obligations to our OEM customers, so I am sorry that I cannot provide an accurate answer to this question.
These tubes are currently discontinued, but distributors may still have stock for sale.
2. The Mark II you mentioned is part of the ART series and is currently still available for sale.
3. The Treasure z black glass you mentioned is part of the Treasure series, which is still available for sale. However, the Treasure series is a collaboration between us and distributors and is not part of our classification hierarchy.
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@ampus
You should try the Psvane Art series 12au7s for your Octave preamp. As we both have the same pre, Octave Jubilee, I have experimented with many NOS, including the original JAN, Siemens, and RFTs that Octave specs with the Jubilee. I find the Art series in the Octave Jubilee to be great all around tubes. They do need some good hours for break in, approximately 20-30 hours or so. I use all the same specs for all 4 spots in the Octave Jubilee, including the selected position. While NOS may sound good, sourcing them and reliability issues are detractors to me when I want to listen to music without any disruptions due to tube failure.
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I tried Psvane EL34-Ph. Nice, but not bright enough for my Auris Nirvana. Is there another choice within the Psvane catalog that has more prominent treble extension?
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Here is a new YouTube review of the Psvane Horizon tubes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp5XCcjtuow
I’ll have a short review, once I get them burned in. 12AT7 & 12AX7 in my phono stage and CV181/6SN7 in my DAC. So far very nice...
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@mofimadness
Thank you for your recognition! Looking forward to your review.
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Just ordered an Art Series 12Au7 to try out in my Unison Research Triode 25. I felt that the Art Series might be a better choice for me than the new Horizon series based on my subjective listening preferences.
Not looking forward to the burn in process. My Psvane EL34 UK's seemed to take a very long time to burn in (at least 50 hours and very possibly double that-it was a bit hard for me to tell as I was dealing with a cartridge breaking in at exactly the same time). But I have been extremely happy with the EL34 UK's.
I'm actually very happy with my setup at the moment so will be curious as to whether the ART 12AU7 will result in an improvement.
Will post back impressions in a few months.
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@audioquest4life
Sounds like the Psvane Art series may suite my needs since I prefer a somewhat “tubey” sound. My only concern is that some users on this forum reported problem with the longevity/reliability of the Art series tubes. Would be nice if Psvane corrects this issue
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@ampus,
I can certainly understand the defect concerns; however, that can be stated for any tune, new or NOS. I personally have had no failures with any variants, MKIIs or Art series. My failures were with NOS tubes.
Also, the Octave Jubilee does not drive the preamp tubes hard. There is a high and low switch for gain. The Psvane tubes are in both high and low gain positions. I currently use the low gain setting due to having horns.
I am not advocating or endorsing the Psvane but merely stating the facts as I know them from using the Psvane 12au7 Art and MKiI based on real world experiences.
Since the Horizon is new and not that costly, I am going to order a set to experiment with.
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@tlcocks The EL34 you have is already the highest grade EL34 from PSVANE, offering the best overall performance and sound quality.
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