@crustycoot Yes sir agree.👍
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@deep_333 agree with your first post. Not so much with the second I have had the experience of meeting a few not real smart rich folks. I am sure they inherited their wealth and couple have the fugly steampunk amplifier, it did sound good. Much better than my Bose Wave radio. | ||
Folks no longer need Patek Philippes to tell them what time it is, yet they still buy expensive wristwatches. And that's fine. No one argues with that. The problem begins when some of these folks show up late at meetings, then insist that they're not late because their wristwatch says they're on time and therefore it was just the right time for them to show up.
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@deep_333 I do not think the person who spends $14K on a PC is plugging it into a Yamaha C5000, just an observation. Maybe the Ture Life Audio TSI-300 @$50K plus, that is more than my first Trailer Home cost.
https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2024/08/23/true-life-audio-tsi-300-integrated-amplifier-review/
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I can spend 14k on power wire if you convinced me (I may have the funds). Look at the picture again and convince me why the nortoast power wire + 2 plugs priced at 14k cost more than the other 3 items on that picture. What was so sophisticated about it? Tell me. | ||
@deep_333 I would not buy any of the items. I do not see the value in any of these items. I do think that the people spending $14K on a PC are few and far between and those that are they're plugging it into a much better amplifier than the two you have pictured. Heck the Honda is overpriced too. I see your point and I would never spend more than $400.00 on a power cord for my Bose Wave Radio. | ||
Which was what exactly? That those skeptical of marketing claims around cables should stick to all in one units? That is not a point, it was simply an attempt at an insult or to start an argument. There isn't anyone here who believes cables are unnecessary. Components have to be connected. What you were doing was simply starting a fight without even the pretext of having a serious thought or question. It's purely uncivil and doesn't reflect well. Sophomoric, really. My only point here, other than to be annoyed by a naked attempt at starting an argument, is that most cable skeptics have far more nuanced positions than "they are not necessary." | ||
@jji666 all good not here to argue, so please stop arguing. | ||
All-in-One solutions, eh? During my time building speaker enclosures, I learned about placing drivers a minimum distance from each other, as well as the components in the crossover a minimum distance from the drivers because inductors and speaker coils create fields that can interact with one another. We can't have that now! So watch out for compact, all-in-one designs. Also, watch out for 90-degree turns in the traces of your circuit boards that may create reflections and audible distortion. | ||
@tkrtrb125 ...I don't care for argumentations over audio, either. 🙁 Even as I'm positive that one makes a decision on what item for 'concrete' considerations and rationales with the costs involved, those choices when rendered here can seem to get ground into sand with the occasional inference of "What were you thinking?!" ...and the given forum is off and running....for however many pages that may entail. Audio and that which we employ for the appreciation of what we prefer to listen to is so meshed with our tastes, desires, and the situations we inhabit to do so. @73 .... I wear aids, by necessity ....at 2K, I roll off like a ski slope. Physical dexterity is slipping, multiple Rx for a heart condition (2 make me 'drowsy', 2 'dizzy', 2 additional do both; 3 are effected by high temps outdoors that amplify the previous), COPD, on-board pacer and de-fibber, eyes on the verge of cataracts... Oh, and then there's the potential of being ADHD and/or ADD since birth or thereafter, but those terms didn't even exist when I was young... ... and a few sharp hits to the skull beyond that start....none of which were deserved....car accident, thrown baseball bat, oak stool broken during a break-in attempt (ER MD stitching head commented he'd seen a lot of these due to bar fights....retort was that there wasn't anything or alcohol involved, and certainly nothing fun about it...) ..personal pref, btw... more my style, and cheaper. Would love to ride, but I bend, fold, tear, and mutilate too easy of late....even through leather and ballistics.... .but I know what I like, even if it's far from SOTA. If it makes me happy, I can still miss the last .001% and be blissfully engaged, despite all of the above. @mapman .....consciousness is the dangerous thing, in that some seem to lack 'conscience' over the power and prescience it wields....mho.... @uncledemp .....'bout ready for a bowl of that....;) As for 'how am', you've likely seen the above.... Still Vertical....👍😎 | ||
Better amplifer... worse amplifier (facepalm)...I suspect you are still not getting it. I picked 3 items of much more complexity (engineering cost, fabs costs, etc whatever) that are priced less the 14k power wire + 2 plugs. I asked you what made that wire + plugs so sophisticated that it cost more than those other 3 items. If my net worth was 500+ million and I decided to go with a million dollar rig one day, i still wouldn’t get a power wire + 2 plugs for 14k. It may still be 200 dollars off of aliexpress for me, i.e., that’s the price of a wire + 2 plugs for me. If i had 500 million dollars and decided to buy toilet power, it would still be 5 bucks. That’s the price of toilet paper for me. I wouldn’t pay a 1000 bucks for a roll of toilet paper ( BECAUSE I WAS RICH, WHY NOT?!?!). Does that make sense? You see...the minute a guy gives that sales guy 14k for a piece of wire + 2 plugs or 1000 bucks for toilet paper, the sales guy is laughing at him.... he is laughing at the bonafide imbecile that bought the 14k power wire or 1000 dollar toilet paper from him. "IF YOU ARE RICH, WHY NOT?".....mmhmm, I suppose the sales guy will need to find a fool for that line to work. | ||
Because those two mediums you mention will never sound as good and work as reliably as a wired connection. Most, if not all here, want the best sound they can get and that means using cables. All the best, | ||
@grislybutter .....I hear crickets.....hope you didn't waste that popcorn.... :( | ||
Man, he really struck a nerve and some of you gave him so much power from a single question. He was expecting the heat but man, so early in the post. No one person is built the same and everyone has their own opinion. For me, I only care about how my systems sound in my environment. At the end of the day, I do keep an open mindset but understand it is my choice on what I do for myself and my systems, no one else’s. I researched within my own living environment and came to the conclusion that the type of cables do in fact make a difference in my system. Some systems are more revealing than others and believe it or not the price point of your system may be more revealing than others. This is why even manufacturers of audio equipment select specific wires or lack specific wires in their design. Sometimes if not most of the time it has to do with the cost to produce the item whether by hand or by machines. The choice is yours and yours alone. I have friends I communicate daily about audio gear and guess what, we are all have different philosophies. That’s OK in my opinion. One even doesn’t believe in cables and won’t do an A/B testing in his on environment because Audioholics told him so or convinced him. He sware by them, I do not and that’s okay. One day I recently invited them over for a listing session since they haven’t heard my recent setup and came out of it with a wow effect of what they just heard. Needless to say, they were very impressed. One of my friends even pointed to my cable setup. (I believe he was poking fun at our other friend). We all laughed it off and enjoyed the moment. At the end of the day, I still didn’t knock my friend for believing that cables don’t make sense. Again, it is his choice and I respect him for it. At the end of the day do what you feel makes your system sound good to you but if I can offer common sense here, do the testing yourself, and if you want to share, maybe reveal what you have and give an honest opinion one way or the other. This is supposed to be a forum to help others, not bash one another because of strong opinions. | ||
Because then you’d have to buy a $15,000 de-humidifier to make sure the air is at exactly 40% humidification to ensure full range of the signal , a $3000 de-ionizer to make sure only the purest Bluetooth signal passes to the receiver, and limited spectrum light bulbs at $250 a piece to prevent noise in the signal. I just so happen to have a warehouse (basement) fully stocked with all of these exclusive items. 🤑 | ||
Why haven’t the top brands simply built and marketed a "King-Size" all-in-one audio configuration? Consider an over-size receiver, approximately 4’x5’, that has top quality point-to-point internal silver soldering/wiring, strategically placed EMI/RMF blocking, internal grounding as well as wireless speakers, etc? It seems to me herein lies the solution to settling this cabling versus high-quality cabling versus no cabling debate; in addition to proving to all the whiny TD’s, once and for all, that... BIGGER IS BETTER.
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I guess I'm just a jerk then and don't know anything about cables,power cords.If I did have thousands of dollars to spend on cables.I them would need a new and upscale wall outlet and new in wall electrical wiring and completely isolated power box.I mean I just plug my Amp into the wall outlet and use cables supplied by the manufacturer .Maybe I'll hit lotto and then take a great vacation and I won't even have to listen to why system. Happy Labor Day.
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A rewind:
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Another rewind:
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I find it interesting that we can get so emotional on the topic of cables...it's the science types poking at those who are invested in cables...and the investors getting defensive. I side with the investors because 9 out of 10 times they are minding their own business and discussing their cables and get randomly attacked. What would women think about us fighting over cables? ;-) | ||
The funny part of all these cable magical sounds is that the big majority of people into this are people that on average are older than 30 years of age, meaning humans as early in their thirties start losing their hearing mostly in the upper registers, getting worse as the years go by; nonetheless, we have here many people in their 40s-80s hearing better sound coming out of cables.
Of course a cable can and most definitely make a difference in the transmission of the signal, but for all these older people who hear all these magical new sounds (I wonder how since hearing loss is a fact at those ages) I would say that a lot of it has to do with a placebo effect. | ||
@robert_1 also consider the fact that these elder statesmen of audio and audio cables have more disposable income, therefore have much nicer hi-fi systems than those 30 and under. More revealing systems not some of the internet/big box lo-fi. You know the stuff the ASR crowd buys. | ||
”….The cable unbelievers either don’t have audiophile ears or an unresolving system where wires are just wires….” So says His Audio Excellency, sacred holder of the highest knowledge in all things audio. Maybe His Audio Excellency speaks in jest? Nevertheless. Let me say two things in refutation. - as for the revealing system, see theaudioatticvinylsundays.com , go to the bottom of the about page. Note that I don’t even bother to mention cables in there, but if you must know, I use monster for speaker cable and something or other (sorry I’m not in front of my system right now) to connect the components that costs around $5-$7 a foot. - as for the ears, why is it that during the listening sessions that I hold, that it is I that is always pointing out characteristics in the music that my audience don’t hear? It’s not because I have better - “audio quality” is how I think you put it - ears, it’s because people hear differently, their brains are wired differently, they are drawn to different sounds, they listen differently. Same thing with random ambient sound: I can be somewhere in a room or outdoors, I’ll hear something (in spite of my cervical stenosis-induced tinnitus) and say something about it, the other people with me are like wtf are you talking about and I say sssh listen, and then they hear it? I will say that most people - thanks to social media - have forgotten how to sit still and listen. But that’s a related topic. But they all are stunned - stunned - by the quality of sound from my system. Comments run from “never ever heard music sound like that before”, “better than live music”, “when I die, I’m going to ask … no, I’m going to tell God to send me back here.” With cables that don’t cost U.S. $5M per foot. I stopped believing in the Catholic Church at age 9. I’m not going there. PS: I wonder if this offends Tammy and whomever in this crowd jerks her chain: let’s see how long this post lasts. PPS: Poppy Crum on Led Zeppelin and why people hear either what they want to hear or what they are directed to or told to hear, in Audio Myths, from 5:12 to 9:28: https://youtu.be/BYTlN6wjcvQ?si=7qn-YZsXI2BzRH_s The entire talk is worth listening to, especially JJ Johnson who speaks just before Poppy and is on point to my discussion. Poppy Crum on Sensory perception and empathy https://youtu.be/SYytiQmXNTc?si=yzIIePDQgicAGFOn
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Many of us, "older people" still get to listen to live music, human voices, and instruments on a regular (if not daily) basis. iow: We still know what life/live sounds like, whether we're paying attention, or not. While one of the many variables affecting our listening abilities may be hearing loss; everyone isn't subject to it in the same manner, or: to the same degree. I can't speak for everyone, but: I want my system to reproduce the sounds of what I hear live, including hall/studio ambience, or whatever the Recording Engineer (or I, on my recordings) intended, without the editing/colorations/interferences, that so many easily replaceable components offer. Happy listening! | ||
"Louis Pasteur's theory of germs is ridiculous fiction." (Pierre Pachet, Professor of Physiology at Toulouse , 1872) "The abdomen, the chest, and the brain will forever be shut from the intrusion of the wise and humane surgeon," (Sir John Eric Ericksen, British surgeon, appointed Surgeon-Extraordinary to Queen Victoria 1873) "The super computer is technologically impossible. It would take all of the water that flows over Niagara Falls to cool the heat generated by the number of vacuum tubes required." (Professor of Electrical Engineering, New York University) "There is no likelihood man can ever tap the power of the atom." (Robert Millikan, Nobel Prize in Physics, 1923) "Man will never reach the moon regardless of all future scientific advances." (Dr. Lee DeForest, Father of Radio & Grandfather of Television) "Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible!" (Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895) "The bomb will never go off. I speak as an expert in explosives." (Admiral William Leahy, re: US Atomic Bomb Project) When the steam locomotive came on the scene; the best (scientific) minds proclaimed, "The human body cannot survive speeds in excess of 35MPH." Until recently (21st Century); and the advent of the relatively new science of Fluid Dynamics, the best (scientific) minds involved in Aerodynamics, could not fathom how a bumblebee stays aloft. Often; Science has to catch up with the facts/phenomena of Nature and/or, "reality" (our universe). I haven't been in school since the 60's, but- at Case Institute of Technology; the Physics Prof always emphasized what we were studying was, "Electrical THEORY." He strongly made a point of the fact that no one had yet actually observed electrons (how they behave on the quantum level) and that only some things can really be called, "LAWS." (ie: Ohm, Kirchoff, Faraday) PERHAPS: that's changed in recent years and I missed it? | ||
If audiogon was the government, they would be banned from adopting your position. It’s called viewpoint based discrimination. It leads to dictatorship. They are not the government, so they are free to ban posts and do as they please. They do in fact do so. Tammy has already removed many of mine, of which I will have something to say in the future. in the meantime, conversely, what’s to prevent someone from adopting the position of saying that people who promote $5M cables should be banned, lest they continue to brainwash people into spending unnecessary amounts of money? Censorship is never wise. (Allegedly) False speech is not fought by removing it. It’s fought with more speech. Then people decide. | ||
That's an interesting list of "accomplishments." | ||
To be honest: no, I did not view the vids. My response was just my list of favorite quotes, from prople that could have known better, had they not been blinded by their own ideas/opinions/biases.
Where have you been for the past 3+ years? The, "government" has been trying (repeatedly) to censor/squelch any speach, contrary to their agenda/goals/benefit. ie: and And, per the evidence: conspired with the media to do the same. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKbjrFMDvtM Not to mention, the laptop from... well: you already know! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdlqPIlF2gw
* I couldn't agree more! MAKE '1984' FICTION AGAIN! | ||
Feynman was and will remain, my favorite lecturer (yeah: I'm that old). He mentioned often (and: I took to heart) his favorite Rule of Life: "Never stop learning!" For all his genius, he never grew overly confident in his beliefs. The perfect obverse to the Dunning-Kruger sufferer. ie: “I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong.” and: “I have approximate answers, and possible beliefs, and different degrees of certainty about different things, but I’m not absolutely sure of anything.” Tesla is probably my favorite innovator, who (despite the incessant, projectile vomit, from his day's naysayers), took the World, kicking and screaming, into the 20th century, with his inventions. His thoughts: “Anti-social behavior is a trait of intelligence in a world full of conformists.” | ||
@rockysantoro I can't tell if your post is sarcastic | ||
”Where have you been for the past 3+ years?” Fighting three free speech cases against the government in court, perhaps? Now, I didn’t waste my time going through all of your links. Anything that starts out by citing the WSJ (which I have nevertheless subscribed to for 45 years) opinion page on speech is not very credible. Trust me on this one: I know far more about the 1st Amendment, Public Forum Doctrine etc than you likely ever will. I got Nino Scalia to agree with me. Twice. Once on the Supremes, the other time at the DC circuit with Bork and Start (I hit the trifecta). https://www.oyez.org/cases/1994/93-1525 Let’s see how long it takes for Tammy to pull this down. | ||
Keep goading her she will, seems that is your intent @unreceivedogma | ||
Wi Fi has a limited bandwidth. For instance with WiFi 6 I get about 365Mbs. With a gigabit wired connection you normally get close to 1Gbs on most networks today. I have heard you can get high definition audio with 100kbs, but I reserve my opinion it does not sound good enough. If you can get 300kbs from a streamer WiFi, it sounds pretty good. I bet on a higher end system than mine, the detailing higher end systems can achieve, that those folks could tell difference in not only bandwidth, but preamp, DAC quality, and power amp quality. The internal components and design make a difference. I think some people in this forum have experience with both wireless vs wired. My question would be if you have a Bluetooth, or wireless setup.....How good is the DAC? How good is the reciever that captures the bits and bytes flying through the air? Of course this is compared to a high end system that is wired. I think the electronics powering the speakers is a Huge concern. It boils down to your ears. I know I can listen to my wired speakers for 4hrs of critcal listening and want more if time permitted. |
