Roon….The Gordon Knot of concierge musical services?

@recklesskelly 

+1

Have a terrific Memorial weekend.

Charles

@charles1dad I respect your comment and please have a joyful day. 

@recklesskelly 

Yikes circle the wagons

Not really.  I just quoted your comment above, “dull and one dimensional audiophile”. It’s what you wrote. How is one to infer that?  Anyway as I said, this is your opinion and that’s fine. I am glad that you derive much enjoyment from audio streaming. You are not alone. Other music listeners are as fulfilled without it. There’s room for all.😊
Best wishes,

Charles 

Yikes circle the wagons. 

@charles1dad , Looks like jerry recklesskelly has moved on from one thread to this one, trying to be clever. Same old, same old, no matter his handle.

All the best,
Nonoise

@charles1dad I did not say that. You are implying that, he said that he still listens to FM radio, so do I with all due respect. 

@recklesskelly

Keeps Jack from being a dull one dimensional audiophile.

You are entitled to your own opinion for sure. I’d hardly say that @nonoise or anyone else who is not particularly interested in streaming music is “dull and one dimensional “. There are numerous avenues one can travel and enjoy music immensely. Streaming is but one viable option.

Charles

We absolutely love streaming and the convenance of having our CD’s loaded on our Zenith. We love wide verities of music and artists being a swipe away. With the right components it can be very satisfying. I can see where it can be quite challenging for some. Keeps Jack from being a dull one dimensional audiophile. 

@nonoise 

Okay, I got it. Many on this forum love the convenience and accessibility of audio streaming. I was curious about your level of temptation and interest to give it a try. You’ve clearly explained your position.

Charles

@charles1dad 

I really don't have the need or desire to do so. Some day I may try internet radio but that's about it. Having the world of music at my fingertips doesn't excite me since most of it doesn't really move me. 

I still like radio and sometimes peruse what's new online and then go out and buy the CD, kind of like how I used to when Borders had their listening stations of constantly rotating music from around the world. 

There's a MK II version of the Technics SACD player (I have the first version) that has practically everything that can stream built into it and  it's priced accordingly, if anyone wants an all in one unit, but it's not for me.

All the best,
Nonoise

Every time my iPhone or iPad can’t find core it’s because the device is on a different network (I have several). Once I switch the remote device to the network where the Roon core resides, it works fine. My core runs on mac mini.
So OP…check if your core and remote are both on the same network. 

Thanks for the feedback on the sonicTransporter.  Also note that the latest version of the sonicTransporter i5 comes with a drive bay which allows for easy installation of a hard drive to store your music.  No need to open up your unit to install.  Hope this helps.  

If you don’t want to do the little computer work to setup a server (setting up osx or linux, configure the disks for music and backups, and preferably using i2s or network to your dac) then buy a music server, but your job isn’t over even if you buy a music server/nucleus. You will still need to backup the music disks and possible add a hard drive or copy music to its internal hard drive.

imo, you will see some of the biggest improvements in sq with the software you use. 

Sorry you’re having such a bad experience. Roon really needs a dedicated computer to run reliably. Many people have had success with an Intel NUC but that is a DIY solution.

Windows is a non starter for me, I don’t think it’s a reliable solution for Roon. A Roon Nucleus is a purpose built solution and is a great option.

I went with Small Green Computer’ Sonic Transporter’. Like the Nucleus, Roon is pre-installed. Works like a champ and I’ve had no issues in the 2 or 3 years that I’ve owned it.

https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/collections/audio-server/products/sonictransporter-i5

And I see no reason to ditch your iPad.

@jjss49 

You got me pal! Once in a while one gets by me!

Most people don’t know how to setup a good quality network in your house. Most people get a modem/router from the IP and they are off and running. I did enterprise networks in the late 80’s/early 90’s and there are configurations that need to be setup to get a good wired and wifi setup in your house. Go wired when you can using the best cables you can afford, and then use wifi if you can’t go wired. For a smaller 2400 sq ft house, I use 4 mesh routers so I get optimum coverage inside and around the house. 

Okdodul. It’s all over this forum that for most, the vast silent and vocal majority, Roon sounds better from a nucleus than from a ‘puter. Audio grade Ethernet cables, filters, switches, clocks and all that jazz really boost it up too. Tons of info on Agon forums. 

I had Roon at first on an old laptop and switched up to the better setup. The clunky Lumin software still bests Roon by an audible smidge. The Roon interface and experience is the Mac Daddy. 

Alas to “do Roon right” is a few K but you will get what you pay for. 

What’s windows?
 

First, it’s Gordian Knot. :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordian_Knot

@roxy54 buddy you are slipping on your job!!!!  😂🤣😆😁

Good point about the wifi. There are free iPhone and Android compatible and Mac and Windows Wifi analyzers. They are very useful not just to check the strength of your signal but also whether or not your Wifi band is congested.

If you have lots of close neighbors you may all be attempting to use the same or nearby channels and simply turning off your router’s auto channel selection and picking an unused channel may be all you need.

Since 100% of all streams go through the core I prefer to leave mine wired in, to minimize the Wifi traffic taken by it, but my end-points can be either.

I have been running Roon Core on a Windows 10 laptop for quite a while.  The laptop is used only for the Roon Core. I had connectivity issues similar to what you have described with Roon and my iPhone and iPad until I upgraded my WIFI network. Once I upgraded my WIFI network, Roon has worked well with minimal issues

Roon depends upon a solid, stable WIFI network to work with WIFI control devices like iPhones and iPads.  If your WIFI network is not working well, Roon will give you fits.  A Nucleus server might not solve anything for you.  I would suggest getting some help in determining if you have any issues with your WiFI network before doing anything else.

@rbstehno for sure!  Windows blows ...

Roon has changed how I listen to music - in a good way. When it’s working, which is most of the time, I wouldn’t want to live without it. I’m running the core on a Windows machine, using iTunes as a local repository and Tidal for everything else. Listening over wifi using older Airplay receivers; MacBook Air, iPad Pro, iPhone clients. As minimal a rig as you can get, getting Red Book quality playback.  
 

As a former software developer and software quality guy, it’s clear they do NOT test their releases well. I used to make the mistake of blindly taking upgrades when they came out.  Wrong move. I’ve had my installation go down for up to a week with no apparent sense of urgency from them. I found their crowd sourced support unhelpful and God help you if you try to get to Roon staff for help. I’ve had to uninstall and install from scratch a couple of times. 
 

And having said all that, Roon is still great. Wouldn’t recommend it for anyone that doesn’t have some system/network administrator chops. 

Chuck windows! I’ve had roon on Linux and osx for years and never 1 problem. I never use windows, I prefer the better operating systems. I used the lumin software to control my auralic Aries years ago with good luck. Lightning DS from auralic ended up being better than lumin and roon is better that lightning ds. The only other software that is comparable/maybe better than roon is the newer releases of audirvana. I have ran audirvana off and on for years on both osx and Linux, but now the interface has drastically improved to compete with roon. SQ wise, you can determine for yourself which 1 is better

Is your network in good shape? PC running Roon hard-wired to the router with ethernet? Router, switches, phone, and tablet rebooted? Router settings thoroughly checked? My iPhone, older windows laptop, and NUC running ROCK that replaced it all run fine.

I've had Roon for about six months.  Not being an engineer, the learning curve was a little steep.  But ultimately worth it.  I installed the core on a dedicated MacBook Air (M2) with a 2TB hard drive on which I have my music library.  I also have Roon ARC on my iPad and iPhone 11.  I am able to use Roon ARC at the gym (iPhone) -- a big plus.  All this runs into my Moon390.  I all runs smoothly.  Maybe Apple and Microsoft (and other apps) just don't play well together.

P.S. I recently found about 200+ cassettes from the 1970s and 1980s in the garage.  I bought a $27 "Walkman" on Amazon.  With good headphones (no bluetooth) it sounds pretty good.

I’ve had lifetime on Roon since early days on my iMac and it has never given me a moments trouble with my iPhone or iPad.  Not suggesting you go Apple on your core, but perhaps a Microsoft surface with your Windows core will work better.  Good luck whatever you do.

My PC is just slightly under spec based on Roon published platform requirements. It runs fiine most of the time. But the cpu does get pegged from time to time so I am certain an upgrade on my pc running the core would make things run faster and more consistency. As it stands it’s fast and reliable enough. Sometimes access to qobuz lags a bit retrieving metadata but that’s not necessarily Roons fault.

Also there are always apps and services running on Windows that are not needed for Roon alone so shutting those down always helps if needed.

linux is surely a much lighter weight ps for running Roon efficiently but it’s nice that it core runs on windows or Apple ie the computers many people already have.

I took the plunge and got a Roon Nucleus+ and enjoy it very much. I think the strength of Roon is how robust their software is, at least when run on the nucleus. Added benefits, you’re able to rip all CDs and then put those in the attic. Another added benefit, the Roon ARC software lets you access your library anywhere you have an internet connection. This is all in addition to seamless integration with all the streaming services, many providing ultra hifi. Is the Nucleus expensive, yes. But considering how much I’ve invested in vinyl and a SACD player, it makes sense to invest in a good streaming platform. 

I just put another CD into the player and hit "play".
Never fails.

All the best,
Nonoise

Hi,

Doesn’t your Technics unit allow you to audio stream? Are you not curious/tempted by the vast music library available via your fingertips?
Charles

Gordon who?

I run ROCK on a NUC with no problems.  You don't want  other programs running on the same machine.

Jerry

Roon is pretty cpu and resource intensive in general.

For the core, it kind of varies. While yes, new DB changes can consume the CPU, what can consume it more is DSD to PCM or intense DSP activities. Mind you, the Roon app does ALL of the DSD/conversion/streaming from the core, so Roon is concerned about the core bogging down with multiple devices being fed at once, but one device doing modest DSP / sample rate conversion is really not CPU intensive at all and practically any NUC from the past 5 years should be good enough.

I’ve been running my core on a 10 year old APU (A10 7500? I thinik. I forgot) for 3-4 years now and never had an issue with CPU power, I’m sure anything you buy now which can boot Linux/Ubuntu will work today.

On the other hand, you can use a Pi4 as a streamer with no issues. 

I have Roon for free! I mean, I paid for their Lifetime subscription over five years ago when it was $499, and has already paid for itself. Do the math. By far the best purchase I have ever made in this hobby. I wouldn’t use anything else, nothing comes close.

It works flawlessly, and never had any issues I did not solve very fast. And I have had all sorts of Cores over the years, computers, NUC, Nucleus, SonicTransport, etc. I have settled on my current Innuos ZENith MK3

Those much maligned silver discs are lookin' better all the time

For the record, I think Roon is the bees knees and the $800 some lifetime cost is very reasonable for a component that does what it does. I went for it when my trial ended. It is music Nirvana for audio people. Especially classical music lovers. The user experience is wonderful. It’s a very well thought out service. Also the steaming engine built into it is very good and can deliver top notch sound with many many devices. Simply wonderful! Maybe a bit complicated but worth getting a handle on

Just run it on a suitable platform with a good network and internet connection and all should be good. Gotta do it right. There are many ways to do it wrong.

PM me if I might be able to help sort through it. 

Ditch the ipad and get a surface tablet.

I just put another CD into the player and hit "play".
Never fails.

All the best,
Nonoise

I don’t use Roon, but my understanding is that some streamers (which I also don’t use) have made the U.I. to include Roon like features. Heck, Apple Music has a lot of Roon like features.

  I don’t like Roon because like the OP, I found it to be a PITA with constant crashing, having to reboot, etc.  I would investigate the apps that go with streamers such as Aurender, Innous, and perhaps Audirvana loaded onto your PC.  You mind find they offer you enough of the Roon experience and perhaps less hassles 

My O.P. Stated I was smart enough TO NOT buy a lifetime membership in Roon,

Also the reference to Gordian Knot was a typo.  I used to have a tongue in cheek F.B. account under “Gordy N. Knott.  Canceled that when I got sick of all the scammers on Market Place.

Either way, thanks and I will continue to read and wait for the “Magic Bullet” that will immediately render Roon as user friendly………..

Roon is pretty cpu and resource intensive in general. Check the documentation for recommended specs running on each platform including windows.

I have noted that Roon seemed most resource intensive when I first ran the core and it had to analyze my ~1tb music library initially. Things settled a bit after that which took a few days. There are parms in system menu that allow you to throttle the library analysis if needed.

Now it runs pretty well. It does get hung and require a restart on occasion.

Use the windows system monitor to monitor cpu usage in particular. Roon can really run that hard. If any of memory cpu disk or network monitors stay pegged at 100% for periods of time you probably need a beefier PC. I will probably need up my PC for Roon eventually but it runs pretty well for now.

Read the docs. Use of dsp is another feature that can be resource intensive.

Running on Roon certified hardware like their nucleus is probably a good bet but perhaps just not the most cost effective way to go.

I also run Plex alongside Roon. Plexamp is a decent alternative to Roon that costs less but you get what you pay for in regards to overall sound quality and user experience. Plex is a great option for headphone listening especially remotely but otherwise Roon is much better.  Plex works with your music library and Tidal only and only up to CD resolution. 

First, it’s Gordian Knot. :)

I run Roon on a Linux box and it’s fairly solid. I’m not usually happy with their "upgrades" vs. bug fix choices, but the combination of DSP and more-or-less working search capabilities is pretty sweet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordian_Knot

Given that you really like Roon and have already invested in a lifetime Roon subscription, I think it is a relative no brainer to make the further investment in a dedicated Roon server.  A non dedicated device such as a PC is constantly multitasking and monitoring all sorts of things whether you are using them or not. A dedicated, purpose built device is a much better way to go. I suggest looking into acquiring something like a Roon Nucleus or a Small Green Computer Sonic Transporter or some such.  Or if you are handy and tech savvy enough, cobbling together a Roon NUC. A Roon Nucleus has been my ticket to ride since 2019 and in my case the ride has been well worth the fare.

i have a nuc running the roon os and it has been excellent ... many who use multiuse computers to run roon do report issues that can arise