Schitt Yggdrasil More is Better

I don't have any experience with Schitt Yaggie Dacs but I have upgraded Dacs many times. Each upgrades costed almost double from a previous device but  obvious performance improvements. But just with anything, I think you will hit diminishing return but not until $20k Imo. Amp upgrade can't be overlooked either. 

I never got the Yggy, but did own the Gungnir a few years ago.

It was a very good DAC, close to my Ayre Codex.

Schiit makes some good gear at great prices.

However,  I made a leap of faith and bought a Brinkmann Nyquist 2. It was more than I would normally spend, but, another audiophile who I respect bought one and sang it's praises. Since we both share similar experiences with equipment, I bought it. And, I have to say it is all that it is said to be.

There are other manufacturers out there, like MSB, and in a similar price range. So, I will say that if you are serious about digital sound reproduction, please give them a listen. It seems that you really have to spend around $10K to get to this level, but if you are patient, I bet it will be coming down in the future as digital is in it's infancy.

Bob

Bob

I get the more money gets you a better DAC point of view. However, I should preface that statement by saying the DAC I had before the LIM cost $15k and I think the $2.2k LIM sounds better. Both were slightly warm, so I think an apples-to-apples comparison. The LIM had a better top end and more detail.

I actually own the PlayBack Designs proprietary fibre streamer. The plan was to buy the PBD Dream DAC ($24k), designed by Andreas Koch, to use with the PBD Stream-IF.  I now feel that money is better spent on an amp, and I have the PBD Stream-IF up for sale.

As I stated earlier, the LIM is so good on my slightly bright speaker. I did some research on Schitt and the people that design their DACs. Mike Moffet has got a very strong reputation when it comes to digital, similar to Andreas Koch.

That is why I want to hear feedback about the Schitt MIB DAC. If it can sound great like the LIM but this time on a slightly warm speaker, then I will use that $24k on the CODA amp instead. Not saying the LIM or MIB is better than the PBD Dream DAC. I just feel the amps bring more to the table given a very competent DAC, at least with my gear.

Schitt MIB is isn’t a huge step away from the LiM sound, but it is slightly less dark, more detail, more open and airy on the top - you would consider it an upgrade, but perhaps not ‘night and day’. Consider it an evolution and slight step up of what you already have. Cheap upgrade though if you can buy and fit the board to your existing DAC.

@gavin1977 I am not going to change the LIM since it works so nicely with the LRS+ speakers in my office. 

The goal is to buy a second DAC and what you described above is the sound signature that I think is missing with my Livingroom speaker when paired with the LIM.

…no Schiit ! I will look into this Shiiit mess and make a comment here .

I’m always surprised when people say the Schitt Yggdrasil LIM is warm sounding.  I always felt the opposite.  It is one of the early versions of LIM #148.  My system is a very detailed system consisting of the ET LFT-8b speakers w/upgraded crossover parts, Custom all hand wired Cary Audio SLP-05 w/Mundorf MCap Supreme EVO Silver/Gold coupling caps, some custom made 125WPC Cary SLAM-100 dual-mono amps (w/Teflon VCaps) each with separate PS’s.  No slouch of a system  

The Yggdrasil was so thin and bright in my system that I had to do a ton of mods to it to make it sound smoother and cleaner before I could really enjoy it.  Lots of digital and analog PS upgrades, upgraded the 5 (each analog board) Wima caps to Rel-Cap polystyrene cube caps, which made a huge difference (cleaner, smoother) and chassis damping, and a few other things.  Took me a few months of going through it until I got to where I could live with it and now love it.  Before I did the mods I listened to it for a few months and then slowly made the mods over time.  Previously I just thought it sounded thin, hard and a bit grainy. Now it’s fuller, the bass is much stronger and fuller, the highs are smooth and clean and the midrange is now fuller sounding.  Way more textures to vocals so they actually sound more like real voices.  I thought cymbals were terrible on it previously.  Very crashy, hashy, grainy sounding.  
It’s not like I haven’t had other decent DAC’s either that sounded fine.  The best I’ve had in the system to test out was a Cary DMS-700 which sounded pretty good.  

I’m really happy with LIM now.  I remember reading that it was a warm sounding DAC’s and thought, huh?  I use everything in balanced mode and the preamp has standard 100K inputs.  I don’t know if the difference  in my listening is a matter of taste or system.  As I said I do have a very fast, alive, detailed system. 
Anybody else found the LIM to be too thin sounding?

@harpo75 I have a Benchmark DAC3B and a Yggi+ LIM hooked up to a Benchmark LA4 preamp. This preamp is like a surgical instrument and does not add anything to the sound. What I am hearing is the DACs. The rest of the chain is a CODA #16 amp and the Magnepan LRS+ speakers.

The DAC3B is bright on top and not as good as the LIM from my vantage. Comparing the 2 DACs it is easy to see that the LIM has a fuller and wetter sound. Maybe it is the Class A amplification of my CODA that is working so nicely with the LIM. The DAC3B does not have this characteristic. It also sounds flatter than the 3D sound of the Yggi. You really get great sound stage depth with the Yggi+ and the LRS+, but not with the DAC3B.

The only reason I am keeping the DAC3B is that I hope to get a slightly warm sounding headphone soon for my office and the DAC3B maybe a better match than the LIM. I also find that with headphones the soundstage issues are different than in 2-channel and the DAC3B does not hurt it cause there.

I also like the DAC3B a bit more with my RAAL CA-1a headphones when used with my RAAL VM-1a tube headphone amp. The LIM is too lush for me to pair with tubes.

YYZ, I'm one of the few that have owned a Yiggy MIL for about 1 year. I was able to compare it to the Bryston 3 and the Benchmark 3B DACs. I preferred the Yiggy, but have since replace it with a OKTO DAC8 Stereo that I like even more.

That is interesting. I was considering the OKTO DAC8 before I got the LIM.

The MIL was considered the weakest in the trifecta, of the OG, LIM, and MIL. Even though the MIL was the best measuring of the 3 and my LIM was the worst measuring. They got rid of the MIL and OG and came out with the MIB with the LIM remaining. The designer seemed to like the LIM over the OG and MIL.

I think the LIM was the model that was originally reviewed by Robert Harley.i have the gungnir I like it.If I will ever upgrade I go for the LIM.

How I discovered the Less Is More

I think they just renamed the MIL the MIB as it seems to be the same chip.

It is not a rename. They used some new parts on the MIL and found it sounded much better. It is a different DAC from the MIL.

I guess that's why I liked the Okto better than the MiL.

I loved the LIM but found the MIL underwhelming. Can't wait to hear the new MIB, although these naming schemes are getting a little cumbersome.

I decided that I will purchase the MIB once I sell a preamp. Not sure which preamp to sell. I have a Benchmark HPA4 preamp arriving on Thursday. That preamp will go into my office replacing the Benchmark LA4. The HPA4 is identical to the LA4 except for the headphone amp. I will continue to use the LIM in this system.

I have a Holo Audio Serene preamp in the Livingroom, and I need to decide between the LA4 and the Serene. The MIB will go in the Livingroom. 

I had the LIM on a secondary system and sold it. It was pretty much meh on top of meh with a dollop of not good! Look into a Wandla DAC for the money.

@yyzsantabarbara 

Do you think Schiit DAC’s are warm sounding? I have a Bifrost and it’s very analytical sounding almost sharp.  That’s why I didn’t continue up the Schiit line and have settled with A Denifrips Pontus ll, that I’ve had now for about three years now.

Have their products changed? Should I check them out again?

Jim

The LIM can be meh on top with certain setups. My tube based RAAL VM-1a headphone amp is better served by my Benchmark DAC3B. The DAC3B is an ESS DAC that is way too hot on top for my other systems but works great with my tubes. I was listening to some hard rock late last night on the VM-1a and the RAAL CA-1a phone and my mind was blown (as usual).

Watch out for the Stereophile and TAS review on the new RAAL 1995 Magna and Immanis phones. I heard both on my VM-1a but with an RME DAC. They are much better than what I have now (DAC had no bearing on that demo).

I was debating whether to spend the $2.5k on the Schitt MIB or gather the $10k for the Immanis phone. I am going to go with the MIB first since the CA-1a is so good already.

@curiousjim I do think the LIM is a warm DAC. It is a little less detailed on top. However, when paired with my CODA #16 amp, which is some beautiful Class A, it sounded great on my Magnepan LRS+. The LRS+ is a bit bright.

Unfortunately, last night, I moved the CODA #16 back to my Yamaha NS5000 system. I would not replace the NS5000 with any of the usual speaker contenders (except the KEF Blade Meta)), love the Yamaha. The LIM is too meh on this system since it is warmer in comparison to the LRS+ system. That is why I am looking for a more detailed DAC than the LIM and one not hot on top like the DAC3B.

I have had much warmer DACs in the past, such as the Gustard X26 Pro and Audio Mirror Tubadour. The LIM is not as warm as those two. I have not heard the Pontus and my understanding is that is more like the Gustard or AMT. I did a comparison of the LIM to my Lumin X1 DAC (both using fibre streams) and thought they were similar with the LIM having a bit more detail. I traded the X1 for the Yamaha NS5000 (a great move).

I am selling 1 of my preamps this Friday. That should sell fairly quick. I will order the MIB after that.

Well, my Benchmark LA4 preamp sold almost immediately, so I went DAC shopping today. I called The Shittr in Newhall, CA to see if they had the LIM and MIB DACs for demo. They only had the LIM, but the guy on the phone was very helpful.

They have the Magnepan LRS in one of their demo rooms, so they knew how my office speaker sounded. The person I spoke to was telling me that he was a musician and for his money the best DAC they make was the Yggi+ OG. He did not like the LIM, for reasons that I can also hear, but it works nicely on the LRS+ so that is what matters to me. He had not heard the MIB.

With regards to the OG, he said that the OG's chip is considered the best compared to what is used in the LIM and the MIB. The only issue was that it was not going to be available in the future so they need to discontinue the OG. 

I have read reviews where the OG was not preferred, but the guy on the phone made a convincing case for why it would work nicely on my Yamaha NS5000 speaker. I bought the OG today. I have the option of changing the LIM to the MIB for $850 + shipping if it ever comes to that.

Now I have 2 Yggi+ DACs.

Funny thing about the LIM- I 'restocking fee' auditioned the final Yggy LIM just as the new, modular (remote) LIM came out. So, with a new one out there, which they said was the same, just 'modular' I purchase the latest model because the Yggy brought a certain breathless analogue loveliness to my current rig. For whatever reason, I never got the magic from the new LIM. Has anyone else had that experience with Yggy?

Curious how you bought an OG version.  It was discontinued more than a month ago.  Only the MIB and MIL versions are listed on Schitt’s web page.

@mikeg777 the guy at Schitt I spoke to told me that there was 1 last OG available on the clearance page of the web site. Unusual to not see any discount for clearance, it was $2699, but I decided I wanted to hear it since I already had the LIM and I have a pathway to the MIB via the upgrade if I wanted to do that.

Reading up on the OG from some reviews makes me feel pretty good about the purchase. I should have it in my place soon if it is coming from CA.

I have a lot of good luck listening to the audio advice from musicians.

Once I get the OG DAC, I am going to break it in in the office system and compare it with the LIM. The LIM sounds really good with the LRS+ so it will be interesting to see if the OG is preferred.

I have my RAAL VM-1a tube headphone amp which I will also use to compare the 2 DACs. I can also play the CA-1a headphone via my Benchmark HPA4 preamp and the Schitt Aegir 20-watt amp. Unfortunately, my Benchmark HPA4 preamp I got a few days ago cannot play the CA-1a well. The HPA4 was obtained for the successor, the RAAL 1995 Immanis. I do not have that phone yet to compare with the 2 DAC's That would be the best comparison since the HPA4 is so neutral.

I have the latest (2023) Yggdrasil Less is More and I love it on my office system. The office has the Magnepan LRS+ speakers and a slightly warm DAC works nicely.

In my Livingroom, I am looking for a bit less warmth from the DAC (and amp). Has anyone heard the new Yggdrasil More is Better? I was planning on spending a bit of coin on a DAC, but I now realize that I can get better bang for my buck with an amp upgrade instead. I am thinking of the soon to be updated CODA System 150 amp.

@yyzsantabarbara

I owned the OG twice...never heard the LIM and the other variant.

I just saw what components your system listed. Since the NS5000 is one of the speakers i have as well, I could say that the high impact upgrade than DACs may be the BACCH. The BACCH "takes over" the soundfield and will no longer have you thinking about the DAC ladder ascension.

Since you have the speaker in a living room (WAF/aesthetics may be a consideration, no gigantic subs?), I would get a pair of the KC62 kef microsubs to pair with them. You could put them out of the way, discreetly along the side walls, in front of/behind your listening position (around modal nulls, see where//what they are through the harman calc.). Room marriage and your bass foundation would be in a different ball game and positively build up into the upper octaves.

These items will be a much bigger upgrade, perceptively, than dacs and amps (in consideration of what you already have).

Thanks for that information, I considered BACCH years ago for my office system with the KEFLS50. They developed the system with the LS50 back in the day. I could have set it up on my MacMini (4-cores) for $5k.

I cannot add any subs to my "Livingroom" since it is really my son's playroom. I am intruding on his space with the stereo system. I have the KC62 sub in the office.

I am close to dialing the Livingroom system. I should get the OG DAC on Tuesday or Wednesday and will see if I am good to go for a few years.

I had plans to keep my CODA #16 in my office and upgrade to the CODA System 150. However, I lucked out and had difficulty selling my Sanders Magtech amp. I have it back with the Magnepan LRS+ in the office with the LIM and it sounds great, a little bit lower than the CODA #16 in the same setup. However, that is nitpicking and I am now loving the office setup.

If the OG works with the CODA #16 and the NS5000 then I can put the wallet away for a few years.

I am into the OG with about 25 hours, and I must say that I am extremely happily with how it sounds. It is more detailed than the LIM so that was my main issue with my Livingroom system. However, it may also have a wider soundstage than the LIM. The depth of the stage is not huge, but the width is impressive.

I have moved my Holo Serene preamp into my office and put the Benchmark HPA4 preamp with the OG in the Livingroom. A little bit more detail with the Class A CODA #16 amp and Yamaha NS5000 speakers. The speakers have a tinge of warmth.

Interestingly, the OG also sounded great on my brighter LRS+. A bit different than the LIM. I was thinking of upgrading the LIM to the MIB because of how good the OG was on the LRS+, but now that I have the Holo Serene and LIM together with the LRS+ I am finding it very additive. Maybe in the case Less is More is prophetic.

I am going to start saving up for a Playback Designs DAC but until then both of my setups, the OG and LIM, are going to be great. The 2 best DACs I have owned.