Hi there were soooo many posts asking af any given device, toy, tweak or component is snake oil. I’m not considered to be disbeliever or engineering guru at all. All I know and use is elementary math.
If an amp worth more than new Bmw, I can kinda take that with grain of salt, but if a wire is worth more than stainway grand, I am DEFINITELY sure snake oil is there without even questioning if this particular product makes sense
So now any audio device can be plugged into the detection formula above to truthfully define snake oil. All you need to know is product name, description and asking price.
All you need to know is product name, description and asking price.
Perhaps that’s all that you need to know, but I don’t judge effectiveness based on price. What you describe seems to be a formula for evaluating value, not "snake oil," which is a term bandied about here with much too great ease, imo.
Czarivey, Other people choices don’t bother me. If they can hear improvement from $1k cable to $10k cable - good for them. If this improvement was only a placebo effect - net result is still the same. Bottle of wine can cost way more than grand Steinway (some wines are $300k), but if somebody can afford it then why not. I would not be able to tell the difference, but I would not call it a snake oil.
There are people on this forum who cannot tell the difference between cables because of their hearing, system or room, but feel very defensive about it and claim that nobody else can hear it. Such people place "snake oil" post all the time on Cable forum. They created sort of club and enjoy each other posts. It makes them feel much better knowing that other people cannot hear it as well. In a sense a feel sorry for them and not because of hearing, but because of attitude.
As for me, I found big improvement with more expensive SCs and not so much with 10x more expensive ICs. It is most likely point of diminishing returns for my hearing ability. From now I will only work to improve rest of the system and the room acoustics.
@czarivey I'm sad for you to hear that you have apparently never had the pleasure of inserting a "reasonably priced" component that exceeded expectations based on the price paid. "Shopping smart"!
....but if a wire is worth more than stainway grand, I am DEFINITELY sure snake oil is there without even questioning if this particular product makes sense...
+1
The highway is for gamblers, better use your sense.
The worth of anything is what another person is willing to pay for it. Period. Want to know how much your rare-one-of-a-kind audio component is worth? Put it up for a no reserve one dollar auction, that's what it's worth to the highest bidder.
Also, if something comes with a money back guarantee then it's not snake oil, no matter what the claims made by the manufacturer. Even if the claims flout the laws of physics, if you hear a difference and are happy with it, then it doesn't matter what other people call it, does it? Because it is none of anyone else's business what a person spends his money on.
As far as I know there has never been an iconic audiophile tweak, whether inexpensive or Uber expensive, you know, icons like Silver Rainbow Foil, Green Pen, aftermarket fuses, fancy cable lifters, Mpingo disc, crystals, Shakti Stone, Walker Talisman demagnetizer, Tourmaline Gun ionizer, proven by anyone to be a hoax. Just a lot of who shot John. Or idle threats of “bet it can’t pass a blind test.” You can argue until the cows come home 🐄 or until you’re blue in the face 😨 as to their effectiveness or cost benefit as that would obviously vary.
Nevertheless, if you plug just Shakti stone or even Nordost Odin to my SOD without mentioning price, it will not blink. If you enter MSRP, it will DEFINITELY blink and BUZZ on both products!
Jmc I do not judge I only show what works and it does as you can see
Why kill thread? give me ANY item even non audio — plug in and I can tell ya if it buzzes or blinks or BOTH or scared that you wasted your funds in air?
yeah, like what's wrong with snake oil? We have this hippie pharmacy here that sells all kinds of homeopathic remedies. Some are pretty funny. My wife wanted some product for some ailment and I went with her- the stuff cured everything, from boils, to depression, to hair loss, etc. They still make stuff like this. BTW, the bottle of stuff wasn't cheap, but I didn't try it on my stereo. :)
Why are there so many threads like this? Could it be that the poster is afflicted by a nagging doubt in the back of his brain, that his cherished theories on audio may be incorrect? The certitude of the post hints at a need to overcompensate. This is how we attempt to modulate our blood pressures and our digestive tracts in trying times.
Being newish to HiFi I research every claim that I am interested in. The latest was about the quantum
diffusor. The claim on this one is one of the funniest examples of "snake oil" you will find.
A knowledgeable and trustworthy gent explained to me that the Schumann resonance is
simply the natural resonance frequency of electromagnetic waves which circle
the earth-- if you compute the wavelength vs path length, you come up with
around 8Hz which is what this box claimed to emit electromagnetic waves to nullify acoustic feedback! This magic box, of not inconsiderable expense, couldn't acoustically nullify itself if it tried.
So there are valid examples of "snake oil" that the inexperienced could be lured in to purchasing, but having said that, look up the subject here and there will be pages of posts howling one way or another.
amg56 Being newish to HiFi I research every claim that I am interested in. The latest was about the quantum diffusor. The claim on this one is one of the funniest examples of "snake oil" you will find. A knowledgeable and trustworthy gent explained to me that the Schumann resonance is simply the natural resonance frequency of electromagnetic waves which circle the earth-- if you compute the wavelength vs path length, you come up with around 8Hz which is what this box claimed to emit electromagnetic waves to nullify acoustic feedback! This magic box, of not inconsiderable expense, couldn’t acoustically nullify itself if it tried.
Actually, no such claim is made for the box. They do, however, claim the device improves video as well as audio. And the last time I looked video is not an acoustic medium. Have you considered checking the credentials of that knowledgeable and trustworthy gent? Oh, dear, this is all so confusing!
personally i think the op is expressing what most reasonable people would think. I think wire is very important in a high end system but only the buyer can decide the value in financial terms. But there is no doubt that us in the audio club have allowed the ridiculous pricing of so many audio products because we are willing to pay for it. I have certainly spent plenty of bad money in audio but it was my choice. The OP expresses an opinion that I very much agree with. The cost to final price is not evidenced in any other manufactured products that I’m aware. Does anyone really think the cost to price ratio of a Steinway to a similar priced interconnect pair would in any way be similar. Give credit to the cable guys in particular. They don’t make us buy it.
To say that there is no ’snake oil’ is the same as saying every claim every vendor or fanboy makes to support their particular product is true.
Any takers on that?
Of course the snake oil salesmen absolutely have no problem making baseless sometimes even absolute claims and will do what they can to discredit any naysayer or skeptic. Watch out!
What TELOS Quantum Diffusor is doing is actually very simple. That is, to create an imitation of natural electromagnetic resonance wave in the listening environment. Unlike the past, we hope that the presence of “pure wave” does not bring undesirable high frequency electromagnetic waves.
Hence, in design, we choose to use the safer low-voltage DC power input. The input will be converted to high-voltage low-current power within the core. With high density grid antenna, paired with high-precision low-distortion resonance wave generator, simulated extremely low frequency electromagnetic wave is radiated uniformly from the Quantum Diffusor.
Coupled with natural wood exterior, the design highly suits Hi-End listening environment. It feels like traditional diffuser, what is different is that it is compact and lightweight in size. Compared to fixing large diffusers, this is definitely economically more desirable.
Geoff, I do not read video in the above. Maybe you can? I trust the credentials of my source implicitly. Plus I can read.
amg56 What TELOS Quantum Diffuser is doing is actually very simple.....Geoff, I do not read video in the above. Maybe you can? I trust the credentials of my source implicitly. Plus I can read.
>>>> Acoustic Revive is the original. Acoustic Revive claims it improves video. Besides manufacturers have to claim something, no? Give them a break. Everybody and his brother makes these Schumann things these days. Nobody seems to know how they work, I’ll grant you that. You’re under no obligation to believe them or buy the product the last time I looked. By the way I see no reference in that description to the electromagnetic wave nullifying acoustic feedback you originally objected to. Did it just disappear?
What you wrote,
”....if you compute the wavelength vs path length, you come up with around 8Hz which is what this box claimed to emit electromagnetic waves to nullify acoustic feedback! This magic box, of not inconsiderable expense, couldn’t acoustically nullify itself if it tried.”
Pop Quiz: How long would a full wave antenna have to be to produce an 8 Hz electromagnetic wave?
mapman To say that there is no ’snake oil’ is the same as saying every claim every vendor or fanboy makes to support their particular product is true.
Any takers on that?
>>>>You guys can’t prove the claims false. How ‘bout them apples? 🍎 🍎 You can’t even provide evidence they’re false. Get Real! I already challenged you guys to demonstrate that ANY of the well known snake oil tweaks are hoaxes. You can’t. It’s just a lot of talk. Apparently all can come up with is a statement that’s supposed to be some sort of Final Skeptics Statement that actually doesn’t even make sense. “To say that there is no ‘snake oil’ is the same as saying every claim every vendor or fanboy makes to support their particular product is true.” Ha ha! That’s priceless! What does it even mean, Moops?! 😛
mapman Of course the snake oil salesmen absolutely have no problem making baseless sometimes even absolute claims and will do what they can to discredit any naysayer or skeptic. Watch out!
>>>>You guys can’t prove the claims are baseless so let’s just assume they’re true. Absolute claims? Whoa! What? Is that from the New Skeptics Dictionary? Funny! Besides nobody is bound to prove any claims. You can claim anything you want. Your assertion is just an Old Wives Tale that’s been promulgated by scaredy cats. 🙀 Don’t worry so much. We’re only discrediting your arguments. We don’t need to stoop to personal attacks.
”People would be much better off, generally speaking, if the believed in too much rather than too little.” - P. T. Barnum
Schumann frequency generator explained (from Acoustic Revive website)
The "Schumann Resonance" is a resonance frequency that exists in the Earth's "electromagnetic" cavity; i.e. between terrestrial surface and ionosphere. German physicist W.O.Schumann first detected the resonant properties of this terrestrial cavity in 1954. It is said that the Schumann Resonance is a breathing phenomenon of the Earth that is lasting from old time of the Earth creation and is giving a positive effect to the human brain.
Humans, animals and plants have become accustomed to this frequency of 7.83Hz over a very long period of evolution.
But recently, many unnatural radio waves and electromagnetic waves disturb this frequency of 7.83Hz, it has changed the influence that it has on us.
Our research was started from the point of view that [If Schumann Resonance Waves have a positive effect on the human brain, how does it react to human hearing?], it became clear that there was a surprising effect to both of hearing and sight.
Then, we developed and manufactured a device to generate the 7.83Hz electric wave artificially, the Ultra-low Frequency generator RR-888 (Patent Pending)
Picture quality improves as well by the RR-888 A focus of the picture is improved!
The RR-888 brings a great ability of a projector, such as CRT Projectors, DLP Projectors, Liquid projectors. By using RR-888, the focus of the picture is much improved.
Oh, no! That’s what always seems to happen when English majors attempt to debunk audiophile tweaks. The whole thing on Schumann frequency is filled with superstition, paranoia, misconceptions and misunderstanding. Hey, that’s just the way it goes sometimes. Skeptoid.com. 😱
"Why do certain people care, so much, what other people spend their money on?"
Excellent question, dill.
Could it be that these certain people actually have a subconscious desire to own the products they question, but due to fact that they don't have disposable income for the products, they must try to validate the products as being worthless.
...nevertheless in all cases above SOD works even if you plug-in yogiboy's snake oil suggestion -- it'll buzz just on name LOL.
technically SOD buzzer should be used indeed for yourself as mirror. plug in name, description and price and see if it blinks or buzzes or simply see yourself in the mirror and compare it with your TV.
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