Hi there were soooo many posts asking af any given device, toy, tweak or component is snake oil. I’m not considered to be disbeliever or engineering guru at all. All I know and use is elementary math.
If an amp worth more than new Bmw, I can kinda take that with grain of salt, but if a wire is worth more than stainway grand, I am DEFINITELY sure snake oil is there without even questioning if this particular product makes sense
So now any audio device can be plugged into the detection formula above to truthfully define snake oil. All you need to know is product name, description and asking price.
“On the walls of the cave only the shadows are the truth.” - Plato
Look, it takes an enormous amount of energy for an electron to ascend to a higher electron shell. That’s a basic law of atomic physics. Thus it is with folks who are either struggling away in Mid Fi Land or who have just plain given up. They rail against the notion of a higher energy shell or a brighter future for all mankind and believe the whole idea must have been fabricated by wicked money grubbing cable and tweak salesmen hoping to cash in on the tender vulnerabilities of weak and naive audiophiles. I don’t wish to paint an overly dramatic view of this predicament but I think there are glaring similarities between the angst and frivolity expressed by the tweak skeptics and the townsfolk in The Invasion of the Body Snatchers. 😩
A technology only has to be a little bit more advanced that current thought to be considered indistinguishable from magic or a hoax. - old audiophile axiom
folkfreak audiogon moderators only remove posts that have been flagged by members.
Huh? What? How do you know? That would be a shame since that means members can weild a lot of power in arguments. Too much power. I trust you’re wrong.
I have the entire transcript myself. There is a difference between "offering" and "promoting". Nevertheless, believe whatever you like. Note my insistence on legal council ensures *your* interests are upheld.
Presumably this post is within forum guideline and wouldn’t be removed.
dang 50% posts removed! it also tickles audiogon as they remove (looks like in panic they purge and purge and purge lustly) whatever or not falls on to their guidelines that are so flexible that posts can be removed at any time for any reason. i guess it brings them fun as to ones who posts here, the balance of pain and pleasures has always been and always will be.
I really wish the bickering here would stop. But, because it endures:
That's because the bickering centres around "snake oil" that preys on the gullible, and only serves to make money for the "snake oil" manufactures and their shills that promote it here on Audiogon.
I have the entire transcript myself. There is a difference between my "offering" a challenge and "promoting" it. Nevertheless, believe whatever you like.
Something else to keep in mind. Note my insistence on legal council. This ensures *your*, not just my own, best interests are upheld.
If I recall, you too state you can hear a difference when ordinary speaker wire is reversed. Yet you declined my offer. Why?
Additionally, you omitted the part of the communication where I asked for <redacted> to submit an alternative procedure.
I also mentioned/wrote I do not discriminate. So cleeds, I’ll re-extend my original offer to you, seeing that you too can do the impossible. You know how to contact me if you’re interested.
I really wish the bickering here would stop. But, because it endures: gdhal
Nothing was promoted. You (clearthink) gladly accepted a genuine challenge that you’re unable and/or unwilling to participate in. And why? Because *YOU CANNOT* audibly hear a difference if ordinary speaker wire is reversed. So what we have here in fact isn’t about anything fraudulent on my part but the exposure of you as a liar.
Actually, gdhal, you did promote a $25,000 challenge that was based on an unscientific protocol. This is from an earlier post of yours:
I’m using Belden 5T00UP speaker wire .. I have a business proposition ... a blind or double blind test where it is my position that you *cannot* reliably hear a difference, and it would be your position that you could reliably hear a difference.
If interested, and if the amount is worthwhile (low five figures?) we can have our attorney’s draw up the contracts, establish an escrow account and so on.
Later, you specified the $25,000 "reward," but that and a lot of other details about your "offer" were deleted by moderators.
Very correctly noted build hookup wire, set asking price $25k, sell it to someone, possibly refund after return and borrow another 6...7 figures loan on just an asset traffic audiiphiles help these pitchers hopefully my unsophisticated tool will help to realize how foolish sometimes we are
clearthink179 posts03-21-2018 12:09pmgdhal"Appearances can be deceiving. Never judge a book by its cover. Nothing was promoted."
You
promoted a phony $25,000 USD listening challenge that was revealed to
be extortion and a fraud and you then sought my personal information
like the famous Nigerean scam.
An advance-fee scam is a form of fraud and one of the most common types of confidence trick.
The scam typically involves promising the victim a significant share of
a large sum of money, in return for a small up-front payment, which the
fraudster requires in order to obtain the large sum. If a victim makes
the payment, the fraudster either invents a series of further fees for
the victim or simply disappears. According to the Federal Bureau of
Investigation (FBI), "An advance fee scheme occurs when the victim pays
money to someone in anticipation of receiving something of greater
value—such as a loan, contract, investment, or gift—and then receives
little or nothing in return." [1]
There are many variations of this type of scam, including the 419 scam, the Spanish Prisoner scam, the black money scam, Fifo's Fraud and the Detroit-Buffalo scam.[2] The scam has been used with fax and traditional mail, and is now prevalent in online communications like emails.
While
Nigeria is most often the nation referred to in these scams, they
originate in other nations as well. In 2006, 61% of internet criminals
were traced to locations in the United States,
gdhal is a fraud, just like the Nigerean fraud operatives he tries to get your personal information! he says " Then he is asked to act privately, and with the inclusion of legal council" just like the Nigerean emails scams decide for yourself this is one dangerous guy!
Appearances can be deceiving. Never judge a book by its cover. Nothing was promoted. You (clearthink) gladly accepted a genuine challenge that you’re unable and/or unwilling to participate in. And why? Because *YOU CANNOT* audibly hear a difference if ordinary speaker wire is reversed. So what we have here in fact isn’t about anything fraudulent on my part but the exposure of you as a liar.
gdhal is a fraud, just like the Nigerean fraud operatives he tries to get your personal information! he says "
Then he is asked to act privately, and with the inclusion of legal council" just like the Nigerean emails scams decide for yourself this is one dangerous guy!
roberjerman"What is more "truthful" - "golden ears" or Pinnochio's nose? I'd trust the latter!"
Actually neither should be fully "trusted" without reservation instead why not conduct your own valid double-blinded listening tests and then post back here in this forum about how you conducted the tests and what they're results are otherwise your remarks here are starting to look like an effort to troll as others here have duly noted!
...nevertheless in all cases above SOD works even if you plug-in yogiboy's snake oil suggestion -- it'll buzz just on name LOL.
technically SOD buzzer should be used indeed for yourself as mirror. plug in name, description and price and see if it blinks or buzzes or simply see yourself in the mirror and compare it with your TV.
"Why do certain people care, so much, what other people spend their money on?"
Excellent question, dill.
Could it be that these certain people actually have a subconscious desire to own the products they question, but due to fact that they don't have disposable income for the products, they must try to validate the products as being worthless.
Oh, no! That’s what always seems to happen when English majors attempt to debunk audiophile tweaks. The whole thing on Schumann frequency is filled with superstition, paranoia, misconceptions and misunderstanding. Hey, that’s just the way it goes sometimes. Skeptoid.com. 😱
Schumann frequency generator explained (from Acoustic Revive website)
The "Schumann Resonance" is a resonance frequency that exists in the Earth's "electromagnetic" cavity; i.e. between terrestrial surface and ionosphere. German physicist W.O.Schumann first detected the resonant properties of this terrestrial cavity in 1954. It is said that the Schumann Resonance is a breathing phenomenon of the Earth that is lasting from old time of the Earth creation and is giving a positive effect to the human brain.
Humans, animals and plants have become accustomed to this frequency of 7.83Hz over a very long period of evolution.
But recently, many unnatural radio waves and electromagnetic waves disturb this frequency of 7.83Hz, it has changed the influence that it has on us.
Our research was started from the point of view that [If Schumann Resonance Waves have a positive effect on the human brain, how does it react to human hearing?], it became clear that there was a surprising effect to both of hearing and sight.
Then, we developed and manufactured a device to generate the 7.83Hz electric wave artificially, the Ultra-low Frequency generator RR-888 (Patent Pending)
Picture quality improves as well by the RR-888 A focus of the picture is improved!
The RR-888 brings a great ability of a projector, such as CRT Projectors, DLP Projectors, Liquid projectors. By using RR-888, the focus of the picture is much improved.
mapman To say that there is no ’snake oil’ is the same as saying every claim every vendor or fanboy makes to support their particular product is true.
Any takers on that?
>>>>You guys can’t prove the claims false. How ‘bout them apples? 🍎 🍎 You can’t even provide evidence they’re false. Get Real! I already challenged you guys to demonstrate that ANY of the well known snake oil tweaks are hoaxes. You can’t. It’s just a lot of talk. Apparently all can come up with is a statement that’s supposed to be some sort of Final Skeptics Statement that actually doesn’t even make sense. “To say that there is no ‘snake oil’ is the same as saying every claim every vendor or fanboy makes to support their particular product is true.” Ha ha! That’s priceless! What does it even mean, Moops?! 😛
mapman Of course the snake oil salesmen absolutely have no problem making baseless sometimes even absolute claims and will do what they can to discredit any naysayer or skeptic. Watch out!
>>>>You guys can’t prove the claims are baseless so let’s just assume they’re true. Absolute claims? Whoa! What? Is that from the New Skeptics Dictionary? Funny! Besides nobody is bound to prove any claims. You can claim anything you want. Your assertion is just an Old Wives Tale that’s been promulgated by scaredy cats. 🙀 Don’t worry so much. We’re only discrediting your arguments. We don’t need to stoop to personal attacks.
”People would be much better off, generally speaking, if the believed in too much rather than too little.” - P. T. Barnum
amg56 What TELOS Quantum Diffuser is doing is actually very simple.....Geoff, I do not read video in the above. Maybe you can? I trust the credentials of my source implicitly. Plus I can read.
>>>> Acoustic Revive is the original. Acoustic Revive claims it improves video. Besides manufacturers have to claim something, no? Give them a break. Everybody and his brother makes these Schumann things these days. Nobody seems to know how they work, I’ll grant you that. You’re under no obligation to believe them or buy the product the last time I looked. By the way I see no reference in that description to the electromagnetic wave nullifying acoustic feedback you originally objected to. Did it just disappear?
What you wrote,
”....if you compute the wavelength vs path length, you come up with around 8Hz which is what this box claimed to emit electromagnetic waves to nullify acoustic feedback! This magic box, of not inconsiderable expense, couldn’t acoustically nullify itself if it tried.”
Pop Quiz: How long would a full wave antenna have to be to produce an 8 Hz electromagnetic wave?
What TELOS Quantum Diffusor is doing is actually very simple. That is, to create an imitation of natural electromagnetic resonance wave in the listening environment. Unlike the past, we hope that the presence of “pure wave” does not bring undesirable high frequency electromagnetic waves.
Hence, in design, we choose to use the safer low-voltage DC power input. The input will be converted to high-voltage low-current power within the core. With high density grid antenna, paired with high-precision low-distortion resonance wave generator, simulated extremely low frequency electromagnetic wave is radiated uniformly from the Quantum Diffusor.
Coupled with natural wood exterior, the design highly suits Hi-End listening environment. It feels like traditional diffuser, what is different is that it is compact and lightweight in size. Compared to fixing large diffusers, this is definitely economically more desirable.
Geoff, I do not read video in the above. Maybe you can? I trust the credentials of my source implicitly. Plus I can read.
To say that there is no ’snake oil’ is the same as saying every claim every vendor or fanboy makes to support their particular product is true.
Any takers on that?
Of course the snake oil salesmen absolutely have no problem making baseless sometimes even absolute claims and will do what they can to discredit any naysayer or skeptic. Watch out!
personally i think the op is expressing what most reasonable people would think. I think wire is very important in a high end system but only the buyer can decide the value in financial terms. But there is no doubt that us in the audio club have allowed the ridiculous pricing of so many audio products because we are willing to pay for it. I have certainly spent plenty of bad money in audio but it was my choice. The OP expresses an opinion that I very much agree with. The cost to final price is not evidenced in any other manufactured products that I’m aware. Does anyone really think the cost to price ratio of a Steinway to a similar priced interconnect pair would in any way be similar. Give credit to the cable guys in particular. They don’t make us buy it.
amg56 Being newish to HiFi I research every claim that I am interested in. The latest was about the quantum diffusor. The claim on this one is one of the funniest examples of "snake oil" you will find. A knowledgeable and trustworthy gent explained to me that the Schumann resonance is simply the natural resonance frequency of electromagnetic waves which circle the earth-- if you compute the wavelength vs path length, you come up with around 8Hz which is what this box claimed to emit electromagnetic waves to nullify acoustic feedback! This magic box, of not inconsiderable expense, couldn’t acoustically nullify itself if it tried.
Actually, no such claim is made for the box. They do, however, claim the device improves video as well as audio. And the last time I looked video is not an acoustic medium. Have you considered checking the credentials of that knowledgeable and trustworthy gent? Oh, dear, this is all so confusing!
Being newish to HiFi I research every claim that I am interested in. The latest was about the quantum
diffusor. The claim on this one is one of the funniest examples of "snake oil" you will find.
A knowledgeable and trustworthy gent explained to me that the Schumann resonance is
simply the natural resonance frequency of electromagnetic waves which circle
the earth-- if you compute the wavelength vs path length, you come up with
around 8Hz which is what this box claimed to emit electromagnetic waves to nullify acoustic feedback! This magic box, of not inconsiderable expense, couldn't acoustically nullify itself if it tried.
So there are valid examples of "snake oil" that the inexperienced could be lured in to purchasing, but having said that, look up the subject here and there will be pages of posts howling one way or another.
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