Solo streamer

@stievus 

Thanks for the tip about Qobuz.  Hopefully it would work.

The magic box keeps amazing.

Regarding critical listening on the Aurender, I don’t know why, but it seems to constrict the sound. With it off the sound opens up very appealingly. Again I don’t know why that happens, Theoretically, it should sound better with it on, but after much back and forth comparison it doesn’t sound as transparent.
Maybe it’s just my ears.

@rvpiano I’m between DACs now and have one en route for a Tuesday/Wednesday delivery. I’ll compare when everything is hooked up and running again. Will let you know. Been spinning CDs on my $49 15 year old DVD player the last few days. Any music is better than no music! Miss streaming big time!

You know something I thought of…is it possible that the N200 has lower noise in CLM and sounds cleaner vs a bit more jitter going to your DAC in regular mode, which causes the DAC to sound slightly brighter when it’s dealing with a bit more jitter, resulting in you perceiving it as more open sound? Because I don’t recall CLM reducing sound quality…if anything it darkens the background a bit making everything sound slightly clearer. I know benchmark states their dacs are immune to jitter. They also state that USB cables and power cords won’t affect their dacs, which I found to not be true when I owned DAC 3 HGC…just speculating…

My condolences for your lack of a streamer.  It must be tough.

I just tried an experiment. I played critical mode using coax instead of USB and the sound improved. I’m going to keep in on this setting for a while.

Once you start to listen for sound, you really screw up your perception of reality. Every little thing is scrutinized and you lose track of the big picture, the music.  
i’m happiest with my original settings and sticking with them.  I also like seeing the display.

I’ve seen some negative reviews (based on issues around the software side) of the iFi Zen Stream, but I’ve owned one for a few years, now (Roon only), and it’s never had problems. I’ve "upgraded" it by getting a Chinese standalone power supply geared toward the ZS and a low-priced DDC to convert the USB output to IIS. Both upgrades made it even better, and for the foreseeable future I’m keeping this setup. I’m currently trying out a Gustard A26 - which has its own streaming built in - and the Zen Stream is much better than the one in the Gustard.

Post post: I missed the part where you indicated what you've purchased; enjoy in good health.

@rvpiano definitely keep it setup the way it sounds best to you! Enjoy the music and don’t use it to evaluate your equipment - it’s the mode that’s nearly impossible to get out of

You’re so right about that. It’s very, very difficult to get out of.  I started it but I think I stopped it in time.  As we know, the thing is to concentrate on the music.

Both sides in this debate are correct.

1- It's a terrible decision if the OP sticks with his DAC and there is zero reason to  think he will.

2- When he upgrades his DAC he will be ahead of the game.

Had a momentary blackout in the house yesterday. Aurender was on and lost connection to the tablet. Worked for hours to reestablish it. No luck. Called Aurender. They were not available. Turned it on this morning. Now working perfectly.

Mysterious!
 

btw, I played an LP of a Haydn symphony that I know sounds wonderful.  Compared it to the same performance on Aurender.  Sounded identical.  
Digital performance has evidently been perfected.

Sorry to hear. My rule of thumb on anything with networks / devices is… the moment you get into a problem… reboot the iPad, if this doesn’t fix it, start at the source and work forward: reboot the router, extender, and finally the streamer.

Did you try CLM with Coax input to your DAC? 

My Innuos Statement streamer is supposed to be optimized for USB and yet the Ethernet output sounds better.  My Lampizator GG3 DAC is supposed to be optimized  for USB input with the new JL Audio USB board and yet the S/PDIF sounds best (I use BNC but have been told AES3 is best and am currently gathering coin for a Jorma Digital XLR).

I think some of the USB hoopla manufactures tout is for marketing to keep up the competitions claims.  I don't believe USB is the best source or input.

Also, keep in mind as your gear gets better you really need to invest $$$ in your cables whether USB, S/PDIF or Ethernet and to realize the potential of your streamer along with at least one quality audiophile switch and an Ethernet filter like Network Acoustics will lower the noise level appreciably.

Upstream sound quality has a bigger impact than downstream.  You are better off with a better streamer than DAC.  

@rvpiano it’s awesome to see you like the N200 and keep raving about it. Keep the thoughts coming.
By the way I expect the N200 to at least match the performance of your cd transport/player. I was close to giving up on streaming and and going back to spinning 💿 until I tried the N200. I have to give credit to @ghdprentice ​​​​and @lalitk for battling it out with me in one of my posts a while ago and recommending Aurender when I was complaining about the sound when streaming using Roon and Bricasti M3 as its end point. I didn’t think I can get the kind of boost in sonics with the N200 but it just simply dispatched the network card/streamer in the Bricasti M3 DAC.

@rikkipuu 

Whether to use coax or USB has been an interesting question for me. I have both hooked up to the streamer and it’s hard to tell the difference sonically.  I believe the USB is very slightly more appealing, so I use it.  As for cabling, I’ve already invested a lot in it.

@audphile1 

It was with your encouragement and others that made me pull the trigger on purchasing the N200.   Of course you know how that turned out. Thank you. Actually, the streamer sounds better than CD or SACD..  I think it decodes digital files better than any other source..  As I’ve said, equal to the best analog performance.

@rvpiano my pleasure!

“  I believe the USB is very slightly more appealing, so I use it.”
@rvpiano 

Glad to hear, you’re enjoying N200. Keep in mind, N200 is designed and optimized to take advantage of USB implementation in a DAC of your choice. I know you love your current DAC, my recommendation would be to try another DAC down the road to see if you can push the performance another notch or two, I am speaking this my personal experience, I went from EMM Labs DA2 to Merging and there was no contest, the Merging was on another stratosphere using the same source (N20). Merging DAC allowed me to appreciate Aurender N20 at much deeper level, it was like lifting a veil.
Cheers! 

@lalitk

What model Merging DAC do you use, and/or recommend?

@rvpiano 

I own Merging +player (Roon player + DAC) along with +power and +clock. Both +power and +clock are optional module and further enhances the performance of DAC by itself. Earlier this year, Merging bow out of consumer electronics and focusing on Pro Studio gear. Their consumer gear are now under Master Fidelity, 

https://www.master-fidelity.com

I'm a month late to the party here but to:     

jazzman7 and @monowatcher,

Clock source can depend on the DAC.  Maybe not normal synchronous I2s protocol but according to my Owners Manual for Pointus II, "incoming signals are all stored, buffered, and re-clocked using the DAC internal clock".  

     So without a streamer, using USB from a MB Pro M3, streamed RadioParadise or ripped CDs, sound is very good (would probably be better with a DDC), but noticeably better is I2s directly from an OPPO 83 to the Pontus, whether 16/44.1, 24/196, or SACD.

@old_ears

Whatever the digital connection, synchronous or asynchronous, both the source’s clock and the DAC’s clock will both be in play. There will be a handshake between the two of them. It’s just a matter of which clock will be the controlling or “boss” clock for the interaction.

With synchronous connection, such as via I2S, AES, or Digital Coax, the source clock will be the boss clock.

With asynchronous connection via USB, the DAC clock will be boss.

But either way, both clocks will be in play.

@rvpiano I’m back in business! Got the DAC. 
As to the CLM - I can hear slightly more open sound with the CLM off. This wasn’t the case with my Bricasti where I heard slightly lower noise floor with CLM enabled. 
The current DAC seems to prefer USB signal with CLM off. Go figure …

@audphile1 

 Strange, isn’t it?

Yes. I still think it’s the DAC coping with noise. After listening with CLM off I enabled it again. I’ll do some more listening. It’s odd…

@audphile1 glad you have the DAC back. @rvpiano I turned CLM on when the N200 first arrived. Before break in was complete, it sounded better with CLM. Not so sure now. Using Ayre Codex DAC with Jenving Supra Ethernet and USB cables. CLM off is brighter/more extended. 

 I was also using CLM was to keep the display screen off. I've read stories of screens burning out. It is too far away to read anyway. There is another setting to deactivate the screen. 

Thanks,

aldnorab 

Fortunately I can read the display from where I sit.
After much experimentation I find the sound definitely more open and enjoyable with CLM off ( and using the USB.). 
I don’t know why this is, either.

@aldnorab thanks! Good to be back to streaming music. Not sure yet on my DAC situation but I’m getting there…one DAC at a time 😂

Getting used to the new sound. I’ll keep playing around with CLM vs just turning the screen off (not a fan of displays staying on when I’m listening).

@audphile1 Which DAC did you get?

Dawned if you do, dawned if you don't. You could buy a LPS for the Cambridge and compare the two, if you like to experiment.  Silver coated copper COAX sounds better than copper for me.  Best of luck and enjoy.

Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.  You could buy an LPS for the Cambridge and compare the Aurender, if you like to experiment. Filter on ethernet like is another improvement. 

@rvpiano Great thread!

....btw, I played an LP of a Haydn symphony that I know sounds wonderful.  Compared it to the same performance on Aurender.  Sounded identical.  
Digital performance has evidently been perfected.

Higher priced streamers actually sound better! Who knew! Good to know my confirmation bias works as well as yours 

I am going to go out on a limb and guess: As a "former" musician you played a piano? 

I skeptically tried Paul McGowan’s AirLens because of the no hassle return policy. I absolutely love it.  $2000

Yes, I was a pianist.

 

lalitk

5,221 posts

08-08-2024 at 01:17am 

@audphile1 Which DAC did you get?
 

I sold my Bricasti M3. Tried PS Audio DSD MkI, now taking a Chord Hugo TT2 for a test drive. My gut feeling is I am making a full circle back to Bricasti just need to figure out which model. 

@audphile1 

I would add Master Fidelity DAC on your trials. 

I was looking at Merging dac on TMR but it lacks USB. 
I’ll read up on Master Fidelity. Thanks @lalitk !!!

@audphile1

I would not recommend Merging DAC with N200 or any streamer with USB/SPDIF output. Merging strengths lies with using its proprietary Ethernet (Ravenna) protocol. In that scenario, you stream from a ROON server directly into Merging DAC via Ethernet. I was conversing with @arafiq other day about ROON sound quality, looks like it’s gone up few notches. As a result, I have embraced ROON and sold my N30SA.

@lalitk 

I was conversing with @arafiq other day about ROON sound quality, looks like it’s gone up few notches.

I concur. In my system to my ears squeeze still has a little more air and separation, and Roon is a wee bit fuller/warmer, but the gap has gotten closer. I have no issues listening to Roon for days at a time and sacrifice that 2-3% just for the better UI. 

No kidding! I just canceled my Roon subscription because the sound quality thru Aurender (and previously thru Bricasti dac network card) was subpar compared to Aurender proprietary processing. But I’m sure if you have a roon centric component, i.e. Grimm MU2, you’ll be fine.

My system is undergoing a few major changes. Sold my Pass Labs separates: X260.8 monos and XP22 preamp. Simplifying my setup and going the integrated route. So in addition to DAC changes I’m also between integrated amps. I’ve got two amps battling it out.

 I’ve got two amps battling it out.

ooh, the Coda and the ??? 

mclinnguy

340 posts

08-08-2024 at 04:18pm 

 I’ve got two amps battling it out.

ooh, the Coda and the ??? 
 

Boulder 866

+1, @mclinnguy for “sacrifice that 2-3% just for the better UI”. 

@audphile1 As you know, the devil is in the details a.k.a implementation. I am using a Merging +player, which is a turnkey solution for ROON. The render + core is neatly implemented in the same chassis as my DAC. 

Looking back, I always felt something was missing with ROON vs Aurender. I think the shift in SQ with ROON started in past few months. During my last A/B test, I couldn’t justify keeping N30SA around. The differences were subtle at best. Keep in mind, my Merging stack consist of +power and +clock modules which elevates the DAC + Roon performance to nth degree…a $45K (retail) digital front end :-) 

@lalitk yes I agree it’s all in the design and implementation. I’m sure it sounds fabulous! Add to that the awesome Roon UI/UX and it’s undeniably a winner!

Right now I’m focusing on amplification first, DAC second. So who knows what the future holds!

@audphile1 

Good luck with your pursuit. I am about to complete my year long quest on analog setup…should have my TT up n running by end of the month. 

Thanks @lalitk !

Wishing you the same!

"Reality only exists because we invented Time"...Oppenheimer 

So, thanks 

jazzman7 for sending me down a Tech rabbit hole of "clocks" for 3/4th of my day... lol.  

   Back in the good ole Air Force pre-GPS, analogue days (1970's for me) we always did a Time Hack during any mission brief with multiple airships to insure coordinated actions...easy!  The transition to digital requires a lot more brain power.

   Denafrips has been notorious for not being fully transparent with their signal processing, eg "real NOS"... ref GoldenSound reviews.  I'm totally guessing here but it seems on the Pontus II, their PCM FPGA module acts on all? incoming signals.... that could allow a synchrous slaved DAC clock to accept I2s data which is then stored and buffered, resampled?,... then re-clocked with the DAC clock and sent to analogue out.

   As a side issue, I was unaware of,  but thoroughly explored by Amir at ASR is HDMI (I2s) is a poor audio source connection, cause it just sticks audio in the spare video spaces of the synchronous stream, and is very susceptible to jitter.  He goes on to show async USB can have very well controlled jitter and low noise flour= better. Hmm, maybe, yrmv.  

   I do notice a slight improvement in sound from my OPPO 83 playing a cd/sacd if the "pure audio" button is used...it shuts down most video processing.  Maybe that lowers the noise floor and shifts the OPPO clocks from video sync to the OPPO DAC clocks?  Regardless of which clock is in-play,  I2s does sound better than any USB or SPDIF source...    

   My ears still LOVE the Pontus II (with the 3rd FPGA firmware upgrade) however it works!

OPPO 83, Pontus II, Holo Bliss KTE amp, Susvara HPs   

As a side issue, I was unaware of,  but thoroughly explored by Amir at ASR is HDMI (I2s) is a poor audio source connection, cause it just sticks audio in the spare video spaces of the synchronous stream, and is very susceptible to jitter. 

From what I have observed over the years, the key to good sound in one's own system is to do exactly the opposite of what Amir recommends. 

@old_ears 

Your welcome  

Glad to be of service.

On a more serious note. The advantage of I2S via HDMI is that the clock signal and the data are maintained in separate lanes within the same cable, and that I2S speaks more directly to what is native to the DAC (i.e. less conversion required).

By contrast, with AES or digital Coax the clock signal and data are multiplexed, and more translation is required on the DAC end.

That being said, so much is system dependent. What is your DAC best optimized for, and how best does it play with the source. And quality of the cables and system synergy are also very important pieces of the puzzle.