Solo streamer

You can buy off the shelf components build a single board computer, get an operating system  and save a ton of money, And have a nice server/streamer.  Will it be as good as a 23,000 Aurender or a 35,000 Taiko extreme? I seriously doubt it. It would be a fun project and could save you a lot of money to upgrade another component! 

Just about any streamer under 4,000 is nothing but a SBC  with $500 worth of parts.   Ask to look inside the streamer first before you buy.  Add up  the value of the parts? You'd be shocked. You can buy  some high end parts from Pink Faun and  Jcat and improve your streamer also as funds grow. 

There is more to Aurender than the fact it is a PC that's hot rodded. It is,  BUT for me it takes the computer out of computer audio.   As I type this with two fingers. I have to say that's worth something to me .....

Ever pick up an Aurender ?   They're heavy.   They reek of quality inside and out compared to any computer.    Support is great.  There's a lot to like.   You can also say that about Innuos. Auralic, Lumin too , they are more than just a PC.  

You are also buying into a slick user interface and real support with most companies that only do dedicated streamers .    

I started streaming with a Vault and I could not consume enough music.   I stream all day at work,  if I work from home it's going on in the background.   It absolutely made sense to me to buy a N200.   I can justify it when. I see buddies spend the same amount on a week doing their favorite thing, skiing,  golfing , whatever. 

@brunomarcs your post reminded me of “One Piece at a Time”, a song by Johnny Cash

@brunomarcs 

@oddiofyl +1

My Aurrender streamer weighs 46 pounds. I have listened to PCs and streamers at every level all the way to top level ones. Dedicated audio streamers sound better than PCs nearly without exception because the fact it has a processor is a minor part of the component and design effort involved in producing one. 

You miss my point @ghdprentice Im not comparing a sbc with a high quality over engineered 46 lb streaming device built with precision and fitted with  custom hardware, No expense spared on your streamer.

I'm saying that  these manufacturers who build sbc's in the 3,000 to 4,000 range are using some off the shelf parts made in Vietnam, they may have some custom tuning and support, that's worth something! 
I'm suggesting we could build these same kind of sbc streaming devices ourselves for a lot less money without having  specialized training and install free programming. If we budget more we can up the anti somewhat! 
 

There is a guy on what's best forum who builds his own streamer with no expense spared, I would post a link if I knew how. I suggest everyone finds that thread, it's very interesting.  I'm speaking of high end DIY.  I've been down this diy path for a while now and that my friend makes this audio hobby all the more worthwhile! 

Getting back to the Aurender N200, the only problem I have with it, as mentioned before, is the extreme dynamic range. It’s very disconcerting to be immensely enjoying a track and then be blown up by an ear splitting, unnatural uptake in volume. Lowering the overall volume can make the rest of it unenjoyable because the music becomes almost inaudible. Thank goodness this does not happen with the majority of tracks.

Oh well, i guess one must take the extremely good with the bad. Otherwise, I love it.

“It’s very disconcerting to be immensely enjoying a track and then be blown up by an ear splitting, unnatural uptake in volume.”
@rvpiano

10 plus years with Aurender, I never experienced this in my system. A streamer job is to faithfully transmit digital bits to your DAC. Could it be the subpar sound quality on some of those tracks that leading to unnatural sound?

A recording with poor or low Dynamic Range would sound hot and unnatural. This is one of reason that I always verify the DR of a digital recording or file before buying.

Your DAC is known to be unforgiving so with N200 high resolution, you’re hearing everything…the good and the bad of original data stream. 

@lalitk 

Probably the best explanation.

@rvpiano I haven’t experienced what you’re describing with volume variance being this dramatic. I agree with @lalitk as to the reasons why - it is the recording. However there are many other factors that can contribute to this such as DAC, preamp and amp, where the components cannot reproduce the dynamic range of the recording correctly and you end up with higher than necessary volume settings on a quiet passages and get your eardrums pierced when the DR is in the norm for the electronics

May be you can post the album and track you were listening to when this happened?

I’ll report back after investigating.

 I’m becoming inured after listening to so much music.

The Pittsburgh Symphony recordings with Manfred Honeck are examples of recordings that have too much dynamic range on my set. It may sound real in a concert hall, but in my listening room it’s overpowering. Impressive, yes, but overpowering.

@rvpiano I’m listening to Bruckner 9th. The loud passages sound like borderline microphone clipping. It’s the recording. Not horrible but this particular recording may potentially be a victim of loudness wars. It’s overdone.
So there’s not much you can do.

@audphile1

I think you’ll find all the Pittsburgh/Honeck recordings are that way.  I don’t sense clipping. Just too loud; and the soft passages, too soft.
I’ll search for other examples.

No clipping but it’s overdone. Unnecessary for classical. 

OP,

You bring up an interesting observation. I am now listening to Bruckners 9th. Sounds great. To me the recording is doing what it should, the real symphony has a very wide dynamic range, to me it seems to be capturing that without exaggeration.

I had season tickets to the symphony for over ten years, 7th row center. And I would carefully listen to how the softest of sounds would emerge from the background ambient noise floor. Then the very loudest would nearly overload my ears. I would then go home and adjust my system to mimic it. I believe the noise floor of your listening room could be causing / contributing to the issue. If the noise floor is fairly high, then you are going to have the system cranked up higher in order to hear the very quiet sounds and consequently have it too high during the crescendos.

So, I would think it is the interplay between the ambient background noise floor in your listening area and the volume of the system. I would think the recording is correctly capturing the dynamic range of the symphony. At least on my system it sounds right.

Anyway, something to think about.

It makes me think of how my professor reacted back in 1988 when I took a music class as an elective. He put on a CD and soon ran over and had to turn it down before it blew the speakers, and then complained how he couldn't tell how loud it was just looking at these digital numbers on the CD player, instead of what he was used to, putting the vinyl on the platter and turning up the analog dial until he heard a certain level of static and pops. "There's not enough noise! it's too quiet!" 

@rvpiano there is something else you might try. Your CJ preamp is capable of 20 volts output. The Benchmark amp has three gain settings. Try setting the Benchmark gain to a lower setting. Hopefully it isn't already at the ~2v setting. Krell has been known to run one stage of the amp high into the next stage, giving the dynamics a boost.

Mick designer of Supratek believes line stages must have high output for this very reason. He realizes it won't be optimal for every amp and system, so the linestage as adjustable volume and another control for output voltage. My PS Audio S300 amp has an stage in it and 10db more gain than the Orchard Audio Stereo Ultra DMC V1 amp. I have to change the preamp to match the amp. Your amp is providing the same adjustment. 

Good luck,

aldnorab 

@aldnorab,

My Benchmark is already at the lowest gain setting.

Thanks for your suggestion though..

@ghdprentice it isn’t the worst but it isn’t the best. It sounds fine on my system. But it’s kind of bunched up and overdone. Dynamic range from quiet to loud is fine. The loud is the overdone part. No fault of N200. 

@audphile1 @rvpiano 

have followed this thread with interest. tempts me to go and buy an Aurender N200 right now. But a bit out of my budget. @audphile1 or others - any views on the N150? Or any other streamer in the $3k-4k range?

regards,

Manu

@dxbwineguy

i was in the same position you are in. I decided to buy the N200 on time, interest free with 12 monthly payments. Doesn’t hurt as much.  
I’m so happy I did.  It’s totally worth it.

I listen to the Honeck/Pittsburgh  recordings on SACD.  I haven’t noticed any shrieking or any issue.  How does the OP access these recordings?  Via a service such as Qobuz? Or has he burned copies to a server and then played back from there?

@dxbwineguy haven’t heard N150

If you don’t use Roon, look for a used N10, it should be around $4k. N10 is a predecessor of N20 and should be excellent. 

@mahler123 

I listened on Qobuz.

I have some of the Honeck’s on SACD,  and you’re right, not as annoyingly loud.
I wouldn’t describe the sound as “shrieking” but rather excessively loud.  Some might even like it.

@dxbwineguy 

If your DAC accepts USB, I would pick N150 over N10. N150 is a newer generation of Aurender models and voiced similarly as N200 and N20. The older gen models are softer (rounded in transients), laid back and not as dynamic as newer generation models. You can buy N200 around $3500-$4K if you’re patient and within your budget. Otherwise N150 is a solid entry into Aurender world! 

My guy is Qobuz is using some compression on a SACD known for its exceptional dynamic range, and that your streamer is revealing enough to show how bad that is.  It would be interesting if you could burn the CD layer to a usb flash drive (assuming the streamer plays flash drives) and then compare it to the Qobuz stream 

My guess, not my guy—I am unable to edit this

thank you @rvpiano @audphile1 & @lalitk for the quick response.

Taking advantage of the family traveling and being alone, went over to a HiFi shop here in Dubai and did an impromptu audtion.

Preamp: Parasound JC2, Power Amp: Parasound JC5, DAC: Ferrum Wandla, Speakers: Audio Note AN J

Variables: Eversolo DMP A6 ME and Aurender N150- both used as streamers only.

Took a friend along too. Including the store rep none of the three of us could discern a noticeable difference. It could be down to the perfectly treated room and the phenomenal amps and speakers- is my guess.

My own set-up for reference:

3 amps that I use interchangeably: Audio Note P2SE, Gato Audio 150 AE, Akitika (yes you read that right) GT102 Z4; streamer: Eversolo DMP A6 (standard), DACs: Topping D70 Pro Octo and MHDT Orchid, Speakers: Klipsch RP 8000F II.

Basis what I have read in other threads on AG, inclyding by @lalitk  and @audphile1 I am guessing your recommendation would be to upgrade the DAC and then possibly look at the steamer?

regards,

Manu

@dxbwineguy 

If you couldn’t hear any differences between Eversolo DMP A6 ME and Aurender N150, then I wouldn’t bother with an upgrade. Bottom line, if you’re happy with your existing system, then sit back and enjoy. 

If you have an upgrade itch, then bring in N-150 in your home and listen for a week before thinking about next upgrade. The whole upgrade game with streamer vs DAC is like catch 22 thing. They both need to be complimentary of each other and not be bottleneck. Looking at your system, N150 ➡️ MHDT would be my pick for N150 audition in your system. 

If the N150 sounds anything like the N200, I would go for it.

btw, Mercury Living Presence tracks sound unbelievable on the Aurender.
You can hear the sampler on Qobuz.  
Play  it loud.

@lalitk the upgrade itch strikes everyday. I try to control it. Fortunately, the audition today helped in that. Right now I have 2 speakers on order- the Qualio IO and The Omega Junior 8. Hopefully once I have them, especially with the former I can salve the urge at least for a few months.

I got the Orchid only earlier this week- that was also part of the itch. As per the manufacturer the tube takes more than a month to burn-in. So maybe that will also help.

regards,

Manu

@dxbwineguy 

My recommendation would be to not make further changes without allowing a new component to completely settle in your system. This will allow you to make sound decisions and get you off upgrade merry go round. 

@rvpiano 

The only downside to Aurender is that the dynamic range on some tracks is too good; it ranges from almost inaudible to ear splitting in the space of a few minutes. Happily, on most tracks this doesn’t happen.

Well, it can’t be perfect, can it?

 

That sounds very much like a DAC thing and not the Aurneder. 

The glass behind your speakers makes for a hard hard bounce. If you have a life partner, then good luck with that one! (It took me finally getting up an out building to get it set up for sound the way I wanted. In the house forgetaboutit)

As others have said USB cabling (and Power cord in) will help too.

Late to this party (as I was listing to tunes). Excellent example or what Agone can be. Oh happy day.

@wsrrsw 

You could be right about the DAC, but I’m enjoying the current interaction otherwise so much, it’s not worth a change of units.  Also, it’s a fairly rare occurrence.

@lalitk am guessing the pun was intended. Good one.

@mahler123 there is such thing as lossless compression. Absolutely everything is compressed on the Internet to save bandwidth and improve speed. Without any losses. Think ZIP archive.

@rvpiano I’m listening to the 9th again, streaming from Qobuz. 
It sounds fine, still slightly overdone with loudness but it’s not offensive by any means. Running the following:

Aurender N200 via Audience StudioOne USB to Bricasti M3  that feeds Boulder 866 integrated via Nordost Tyr 2 XLR. Bricasti does an amazing job with this recording. 
 

Anyone using any kind of isolation feet/platform with the Aurender? 

Thanks,

aldnorab

@aldnorab i have it on a solidsteel amp stand

check my system page

@audphile1

Not a fan of Bruckner. Hard for me to listen to.

I accept what you’re saying though.  I think it may be a DAC thing.  Although, other than Pittsburgh/Honeck, just about  everything else doesn’t exhibit this problem.

Yeah don’t worry about it for now. Enjoy the music! 

Any Innuos...I have the Pulsar 

I have that Bruckner 9 SACD and there are no issues with it in my systems.  Not my favorite performance but it sounds great 

Although I believe my Benchmark DAC is doing a great job, just out of curiosity, what other DACs would you recommend?

I’ve not compared too many DACs…but here’s the list in order of ranking:

Bricasti M3

PS Audio DirectSream Digital MkI

Chord Hugo TT2

Benchmark DAC 3 HGC

Bryston BDA-3.14

Bryston BDA-3

Chord Qutest

Mytek Brooklyn 2

The Bricasti M3 is simply a fantastic DAC. I’m making a full circle back to it now.
Others will chime in with their recommendations but if you have any questions on my experience with any of the DACs from the list above, please feel free to message me.

@audphile1

FYI, the Benchmark DAC3HGC is identical to the DAC3 aside from some extra features.

I auditioned the Qutest years ago.  Liked my Schitt Gungnir better.

That’s right…according to benchmark…but we all know what happens when an attempt is made to stuff 10lbs of poop in a 5lb bag…