my method of speaker toe-in and rear slant, thus inward and upward directivity, is part of why I don’t seem to get vibrations on the surface of the LP between/behind the sealed boxes I think. Your setup may be part of the solution, or .......
My SUT to select which arm and impedance or PASS for MM just fits under the side of my TT, (normally I can see/move it’s two selector knobs, shown pushed too far underneath the TT here) I have to move my Preamp/Amp cabinet to work on it. Notice felt squares on the end of the dust cover
It’s big, you need to plan for where it goes during play, some covers would be huge, it may determine where you place other equipment, it did in my setup.
Some more felt on the face of the Reel to Reel Tape Player protects the cover when using the TT. Below, prior setup, SUT was on a shelf below the TT, actually harder to see the various markings, hard to position, but better now.
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"think you have completely missed one of the most important and appreciated ..."
bimmerlover-
Actually, I'm an LP disciple/bin diver/original press weirdo.
I just make fun of my own obsession with the entire process.
Currently enjoying a STRONG cup of coffee, listening to Ludwig V's
9th- RCA Living Stereo 1959
Boston Symphony/Munch
Carpe Diem!
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Impractical, don’t kid yourself, it’s a problem needing solution. Expensive TT’s (any TT) without a dust cover is an incomplete solution, an abomination, they should be ashamed of themselves.
I go for dust minimization and dust barrier, uncover to play. My forced air supply vent (end of the run) at that end is blocked, the return air vent on the far wall somehow pulls enough for comfort all seasons.
You’ve caught a glimpse of dust in sun beams. It is pure folly to think invisible contaminants are not gathering and accumulating on all possible surfaces of your very finely manufactured stylus, cantilever, arm pivots, bearings, TT: anything left open to the air. At least a cloth cover when not in use.
Hinged, playing while closed: as I said, even if I cannot hear/prove it, I cannot get the concept of reflected microphonics out of my mind, so prior TT, I left it up/open (level the TT when weight is shifted thusly) or don’t attach the hinges, lift it off.
Vibrations in the space from the speakers reaching the surface of the LP? I cannot sense any movement getting involved? If I had my rear ports open, that would be an issue, but they are sealed since I moved to this space 46 years ago. The speaker's tops are slanted and delicate things do not vibrate/move, things in front/sides all have a combo of felt feet/no touch each other rule and all artwork corners have tak at the corners. I get many opportunities to see dust movement in variously directed sun beams, my TT is in front 3 windows facing south and one from right side catching late afternoon/sunset rays. Speakers Off/on, the dust in the rays does not reveal change of air movement in the TT's vicinity. The only clue I have.
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It's obvious, to me, that this Chief Engineer of Thorens, at that time, was doing nothing other than damage control, to cover up a significant engineering design fault. If the tolerances between the platter, record and TT dustcover were so tight so as to not allow for an extremely miniscule variation in the diameter of a spinning record with dust cover down (e.g. micron? micrometer?) because a record's hole might not be perfectly on center, that is an engineering design flaw. Surely, a company like Thorens and TT engineers, in general, should have accounted for record pressing & manufacturing flaws, especially in the 60s & 70s! I wonder how much longer that Chief Engineer worked for Thorens after that fiasco!
As for playing records with the TT dustcover off, since the late 50s & early 60s, to date, even though I have lived in relatively "dust-free" environments, so to speak, I have always played records with the dustcover on and in the down position and never noticed any deleterious sound quality consequences, as a result, even at high decibel levels. Of course, this presumes quality components and good system set-up. Unless you have your audio system set-up in a scientific research or industrial production cleanroom, there is always dust & dust motes in the air. I suppose using a good HEPA equipped air cleaner near your TT might make sense but only if it's a very, very quiet unit. I'm considering using one (i.e. HEPA equipped air cleaner) in my record cleaning system.
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The ELP is not immune to dust, IIRC. TJ, if you want to come over and digitize my 3000 LPs, you’re welcome if you bring the necessary gear.
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"Convert all your LP'S into files- they will sound exactly like the LP."
Now here is an honest man's assessment of the state of his hearing! Both of my turntables still out perform files to my aging ears, although the gap is definitely narrowing. I also have to admit that the latest Redbook CD is sounding remarkably good. I have been listening to a lot of those lately comparing two CD players, my long standing Luxman D-10X against a freshly acquired Marantz SA10 slated for our second home, but for now both residing under one roof. Anyway in the FWIW department I remove the dust cover on my SL1200 GAE when playing records, but out of sheer laziness lift it and leave open on the hinges on my HW40. But I believe lewm has the right approach.
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@tablejockey I think you have completely missed one of the most important and appreciated aspects of playing vinyl records, and that is the visual, tactile, organic and emotional aspect of handling physical media. Beautiful album and gatefold design, liner notes, lyrics, …
To walk over to your shelf with records, peruse by flipping through the bins or shelves, and pull out something to play that strikes you right then and there.
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No cover on/off or dust issues
https://www.elpj.com/
Similar to that thing introduced in the mid 80's with little silver discs.
I like Dekays suggestion - cone of silence actually could be answer to many of life concerns.
Convert all your LP'S into files- they will sound exactly like the LP.
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I have always removed the acrylic dust covers from my turntables when listening to them.
On an aside regarding actual dust covers for all types of audio gear, I have several inexpensive vinyl dust covers for the audio gear I use regularly. However, I keep most of my audio gear wrapped in plastic wrap (the stuff you use for sandwiches and such - I use a product called stretch tite). It’s dirt cheap to use and when you’re ready to use a piece of high end gear you just toss it and use a new piece of plastic wrap to reseal the piece of equipment when you’re through using it. I’ve been storing audio gear like this for years, and because you can choose the size of the plastic wrap, it’s also useful for covering odd sized highend gear like some turntables.
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I have a Technics SL1200G and it has a hinged, removeable dust cover; when not in use the dust cover is on and closed, when I'm playing records, I just remove the cover from the TT and put it elsewhere until I'm done and then put it back on again.
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The generally larger physical size & often non symmetrical overall shape w/ outboard motors or arm boards of the better turntables necessitates that dust covers are not in play when the table is in use. That said, there’s likely a reason these manufacturers don’t attempt to attach dust covers to their fine products..The optional cover for my Basis 2500 just sits over it on the rack & must be removed to used to play a record.
It makes sense to me, if given the choice, to not add any other additional potential unwanted vibration catching / generating material touching the base of a highly sensitive device. Manufacturers go to great lengths to do just the opposite through substantial mass, dampening or even light weight but very high stiffness in Rega’s case.
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I have the VPI HW40 turntable and it came with a dustcover which can be attached with included hinges. At first I was just going to go without the cover as I did not have enough room for the hinged cover to open enough. Then I thought that without the hinges I can just simply lift the cover and place it to the side when playing. Problem solved. Without the cover, dust on the table would be a constant problem to clean. I would rather not dust around an expensive cartridge.
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.."My deduction was that ambient sound feedback from the listening room and speakers is significant and audible.."
But it's fair to say that you don't stomp around and shout out while actually listening to music. Nor do you use a buzz saw, etc. Chances are you are sitting quietly when listening to music, so your experiment only demonstrated what we already know, that a cartridge is a transducer and as such can act weakly as a microphone, converting ambient sound wave energy into an electrical signal just as it converts wiggles of the stylus into an electrical signal. Now consider the opposite case which very much does pertain to the actual use of a cartridge: Have you ever stood near your TT and heard low level music signal emanating direct from the headshell? Most of us have observed that phenomenon. When you play an LP with the dust cover lowered, it is possible that the low level music signal emitted directly from the cartridge can bounce around the inside of the dust cover and feed back on the desired work of the cartridge, causing distortion. Also, ambient sound in the room, minimal though that may be, will cause the dust cover itself to vibrate, since its horizontal top surface is like a drum skin. That too can be picked up by the cartridge. In any case, whether these issues play into it or not, I hear what Noromance hears, and I concluded long ago that I don't want the dust cover anywhere around the TT when I am listening. (Raising the cover on its hinges also has its issues, since then the cover presents as a sort of reflector.) But I still recommend that you decide for yourself.
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I don’t use covers on my turntables. But I used to run a Linn LP12 decades ago. I did some experimenting with the lid up and the lid down. With a blindfold on and my partner gently raising and lowering the acrylic, I could hear the lid going up as a veil being lifted, literally freeing the music. Lid down, music became closed in. Same drill with covers on small signal tube amps.
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There is no correct answer. No corporation or engineer can give you the correct answer. Do what makes you feel good, but I’d advise against scolding others who do not see the issue in the same light as you (meaning any of us).
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Regarding ambient sound feedback: I did an experiment one time in my listening room, with my RT-909 tape recorder and my Music Hall MMF-7 TT (project OEM tonearm). The cartridge was a higher end GRADO.
I started the record playing, recording into the RT-909. After the record play was about 1/2 way of the LP, I unplugged the TT BUT KEPT THE 909 TAPING. So, the needle is sitting motionless in the groove of the motionless LP, with the RT-909 continuing to record the cartridge output.
They I walked around the room, clapping, shouting, humming, singing, and even stomping a couple times, all at various amplitudes.
You guessed it: when I played the tape from the "non playing" sections back, I heard many of the clappings, many of the shouting, some of the higher amplitude singing, and all of the stompings.
My deduction was that ambient sound feedback from the listening room and speakers is significant and audible...
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For what it's worth, I have the Rega P8. The dust cover supplied by Rega protects the unit while not in use, and is designed in such a way it can't possibly be used while the TT is in use. I hope Rega knows more about this issue than I do, and will defer to their judgement.
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Having seen how dust accumulates on a de-staticized LP even with a dust cover on, I would never play a record with the dust cover off. I have a HEPA air filter in the room with the turntable, and I don’t think that completely eliminates accumulation of dust--I think it comes off clothing I wear and from the HVAC system if it is on while playing a record.
I suspect that any difference in sound quality would be negated (for me) by any additional tick noises that added dust would cause, possibly permanently. The three turntables I’ve used in the last 50 years all had dust covers that could be placed down while playing records. My turntable is a SOTA Star Sapphire, and I suspect the vacuum holddown reduces vinyl resonances so that the dust cover wouldn’t make much of an audible difference, but I’ll admit I haven’t even made the comparison. I will, just out of curiosity, with some record that I don’t care much about.
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Here comes a bunch of comments and testimonials about dust covers, up or down, good or bad. I only suggest that each individual needs to try it both ways (or each of the 3 possible alternatives, up, down, or off the turntable during play). As I’ve written many times, I am in the last category based on listening tests, a purely subjective judgement.
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I have a Clearaudio Innovation with two tonearms so a dustcover is out of the question anyway. It would be expensive to have one made, and impractical and cumbersome to use when the TT isn’t in use. I just don’t bother covering it with anything. I have a cosmetic brush I use to wipe off the platter before playing sessions, and a feather duster to occasionally dust the plinth and arms.
When I had Rega and Linn LP12 turntables, I removed the dustcovers entirely for playing records.
My environment is somewhat dusty but not terribly so. My wife vacuums the listening room on a regular basis (at least once a week).
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