I have dedicated audio room 14.5x20.5x9 ft. Currently have Marantz Reference CD/Intergrated paired to Magnepan 1.7's with REL T-7 subs. For the vast majority of music I love this system. The only nit pick is that it is lacking/limited in covering say below 35 hz or so. For the first time actually buzzed the panel with an organ sacd. Bummer. Thought of upgrading subs to rythmicks but then I will need to high pass the 1.7's. Really don't want to deal with that approach.
Enter the Double Impacts. Many interesting things here. Would certainly have a different set of strengths here. Dynamics, claimed bottom octave coverage in one package, suspect a good match to current electronics.
I've read all the threads here so we do not need to rehash that. Just wondering if others out there have FIRST HAND experience with these or other Tekton speakers
Charles, Thank you for the confirmation. I certainly am impressed with your experience on these forums. I see your posts all over the place, 6,158 posts and counting. Wow! I am also impressed with your politeness. It's refreshing. And then there's your system. That's really nice. I saw the photos of it. The Frankenstein's were the first amp I was interested in a few years ago but my speakers were not efficient enough. But with the new Vaughn speakers, I may investigate that possibility anew. I have some auditioning to do with the LTA ZOTL amp first.
I have enjoyed perusing this forum and have been impressed and even amazed at the level of gentlemenliness on this thread compared to what I have seen elsewhere. Keep it up gentlemen.
Perhaps I do not belong here due to the fact that I no longer have any interest in the DI's. But I have genuine respect for many of you, have enjoyed your conversing, and just wanted to share my experience.
Welcome to audiogon and you are most certainly welcome on this thread or others.You and I may not agree on every piece of gear but I personally enjoy other people's opinions because I may get some good actual user feedback that a professional review may miss or it might be a piece of gear that I never have heard of with little info online.
I hope you enjoy your Zotl 40 when you get one,I like mine.
@audiopitbull Many fans of the Playback Designs Merlot.
I like what Jim Jordan of Vaughn Loudspeakers does (and he's a terrific guy to work with)...I'm sure your Vaughn speaker with the Dukane Plasma Tweeters will be very enjoyable paired with the Merlot, MZ2S and the Pass XA-30.8.
BTW, You are one of the "you's" I referred to above. You also have some amazing equipment and I am aware you like the Directstream. I encourage you to listen to a fully burned in Merlot if you get an opportunity. I think you would be surprised as I was. I recall I think that you play the piano? You will know immediately if you and I agree on the Merlot.
I love music so much. My pit bull, Bear, and I sit on the couch and listen to music for hours when we're home. I don't know if he likes it or not, but it certainly doesn't bother him since most often he's dreaming and snoring at 80-95 dB levels. I too fall asleep sometimes listening to music like that. I get a genuine high. (no wine or other substance induced, just the music).
As I've heard it here also, it's all about the music. I concur.
Well, I have more to say but will have to come back tomorrow. I'm an owner/operator (specializing in experimental aircraft transportation, irrelevant I know) and am headed for the pillow right now.
Micheal, Thank you for your very kind comments. Yeah I post quite a bit I'll confess, I watch very little television and this allows time for reading, listening to music and participation on this enjoyable forum.
A few years ago at RMAF I heard the Vaughn speakers driven by the Wavelength Cardinal SET amplifier and it was quite a good sounding match. I'm certain that your audio system sounds captivating and very engaging.
Michael this is as you note an interesting thread with friendly and mature posters. Your comments are most welcome here. Corelli I hope you don't mine my invitation of others to your creation (thread) 😊😊. Charles
david_ten, Thanks for the encouraging words. I have high hopes for the Vaughn speakers. And yes, Jim Jordan was a pleasure to work with. His place was only 50 miles out of route for me so I went by to pick them up. He brought them out to me at a spot by the freeway so I wouldn’t have to bring my rig into his neighborhood.
Charles, Thanks for the welcome. I hope my comment about your posting didn’t come across as a negative and I apologize if it did. I meant it as a positive. I think others would agree that your presence and activity on this and other forums is interesting and helpful. This is a very interesting hobby we share in and it’s entertaining to engage with others in the forums. You and others have even been able to arrange listening sessions sharing your equipment. I think that’s great. I live out west in southwest Washington. Any chance I could hear your amps? Just kidding...kind of. Would love to hear them but fat chance you live anywhere nearby.
I would also love to see some of you who seem to know each other get together and do a Single Ended Class A SET Amp shootout with the Frankenstein’s, Aric Audio offerings, and I think Terry mentioned some others. That would be very interesting!
@kdude66 did you receive the Lyngdorf yet? I blew up my Odyssey amp trying to bias it. Shorted something. Trying to get it fixed but that Lyngdorf looks pretty sweet.
Hello gentlemen It took 30 hours of listening DI. These speakers are phenomenal. For four years I listened Jamo 909 and say that DI is better for me. The only thing that is an asset Jamo a deeper bass (but it is quite slow) Jamo 909 is a dipole design, and it is difficult to directly compare, but the general impression is that the DI are more musical and direct. It is an excellent vocals, piano and guitar. I wonder if 30 hours is enough to reach the speakers (I think a little bit about bass), though for me is great.
When you asked me, I didn’t think you were serious because I stated I don’t have the DI’s. So, I can’t compare. After I get the Vaughn’s broken in I can comment on them if you or others desire. On paper, to me they look like what I’m looking for which is, besides all the HiFi qualities, that aliveness that you get only with full range drivers, speakers without crossovers. They are three way, but the midrange is a full range driver with only a Jantzen inductor as a first order rolloff before the full range upper midrange "shout". The Dukane plasma tweeter is rolled in with a high quality cap. That’s the only two parts in the "crossover". So, high hopes. You can find out more on his website if you wish.
mofojo, I have the Lyngdorf TDAI- 2170 with all three modules. I would perhaps consider parting with it depending on how my auditions go with the Vaughn speakers being driven with it vs. the Pass XA30.8 vs the ZOTL40. The Lyngdorf is an incredible sounding integrated. Sound Science posts my review in his ads on Audiogon.
I think with these speakers though, the Lyngdorf may surpass both the Pass and the ZOTL gear and they will be up for sale instead. We'll see. Then perhaps I'll compare the winner (to my ears) to an SET.
I would also like to hear Kenny's thoughts on the Lyngdorf since he has SET's as well as an XA30.8 if I'm not mistaken.
I talked to Eric yesterday and the first pair of SI's, which are Ezra's set, have been shipped and will arrive this Wednesday. Eric was extremely pleased about the performance of his new design. I will be going to Ezra's home to hear them and as soon as I have a take on them I'll post a "field report" on what I hear.
Charles, not at all do I mind. I have really enjoyed the quality of the posts and individuals on this thread. Never did I imagine this thread would take off as it did--and still going strong! While there are many divergent opinions on gear we have associated with our DI's, one thing remains a constant--the DI's let you clearly experience the qualities of the gear you place upstream. It's hard to not spend a good amount of time sharing one's experiences.
Speaking of, I mentioned a few weeks ago I ventured into the world of valves. I have been very happy indeed with my Marantz Reference SACD/integrated driving my DI's. I find this gear to be very neutral top to bottom and extremely enjoyable to listen to for long hours at a stretch--never offensive yet not lacking in detail. But I wanted to see what tubes might bring to the table. I only considered intergrateds. (Just not a multi-boxed kinda guy for various reasons) Considered SET's and PP 's. Now don't cringe Charles/Mac/others, but settled on a Primaluna Dialogue HP that I picked up on this site. I felt that this might be a bit less limiting on the wide variety of music I listen to. I was also impressed with quality of the transformers and point to point construction. And at 63# I can lift it!
Remember how Julian Hirsch told us years ago that any properly operating amplifier sounds the same as the next. Wow. Wonder if he would have said that with a pair of DI's in his system.
So last night I was listening to the boxed set of Jacqueline Du Pre's EMI recodings, CD 7/Beethoven Cello Sonatas. I listened to this live recording over and over. I like to sometimes describe what I hear in visual terms. The Primaluna is certainly not a pastel watercolor painting. Rather an oil painting--deep color saturation, detailed facial features with beautiful light on the subject. Very nice contrasts are evident between the subject and background of the painting. Alright, enough of the visual analogy.
My Marantz is a master of composure. It never gets rattled when the musical waters get rough. With the above CD you had a mid hall seat. Musical crescendos were there but never with any edge. With the Primaluna you are closer the the front of the hall. So there is a bit more excitement. Dynamics are more startling. But there's never a free lunch it seems. On occasion the Primaluna would present a bit of an edge noted on the upper registers of the piano. (Here begins the tube rolling--what 12AU7 driver will mitigate that edge?)
Honestly, what amp I prefer most is dictated more by the recording. Same goes for the option of triode vs. ulrtalinear. But one thing for sure--the DI's make all the differences easily discerned.
@corelli I've been very happy with Cryoset Gold Lion 12AU7s in my modified cj PV12L line stage. Very neutral sound with great dynamics. They seem to last forever (cryogenic treatment??) Perhaps employing a Herbie's Audio Lab tube damper to each tube might be of benefit as well.
Funny you mentioned the Gold Lions hifiman5----was reading on Upscales site the 12AU7's reviews and others felt this to be good choice in terms of what I would look for as well.
Hi Michael I took you comment about my frequent posting as a factual observation 😊 absolutely no negative inference at all.
Hi Corelli, I didn't c"cringe" although I can’t speak for Tom (Mac48025) 😊. I'm truly an advocate of trusting your ears which is what you're doing with obvious success. Charles
I never cringe, but have been known to twitch at times 😬 I think one of the many things we've learned here is that there is no right or wrong component for everyone just whatever works for you. I find it very interesting the success people here are having with such a wide variety of electronics with the DI's......and other speakers.
I too am looking forward to that comparison, sprocket75. Both teajay and Mike of Audio Archon have experience with the DI and will be able to discern the sonic differences between them and the SE's.
How many hours are needed to break the final speaker DI ? From my experience, after ten hours he improved significantly - relaxed sound. What you have your own experience?
Full-range break-in – what you need to know: All pistonic-type transducers have a very clear and predictable rate of change that occurs within the first few hours and within the extended hours of initial break-in. In the realm of credible transducer engineering, we see major changes (10-15%) occuring within the first 1-15 hours of break-in. This is the period where the major shifts normally occur. Beyond 15 hours, in a properly functioning and typical device, the process really slows down and small, incremental changes are typically observed over time.
The Key: When a new transducer’s soft parts (cone, surround, spider, etc.) are crisp and tight, there is a specific level of transverse friction within a number of parts in the transducer. Once we get the driver working through its effective range of motion (far from linear), the transverse friction levels immediately begin to predictably drop, and the piston moves more and more smoothly with less and less resistance.
The full-range mystery: The break-in process (with all of its negative attributes) simply happens to be most intrinsically connected to, and is most audibly discerned through a full-range transducer. This is because a full range simply has the ability to augment the very subtle higher frequency centered distortions, squeaks, and squawks that a crisp new speaker is capable of producing. Once again, if it is a full-range speaker and if it sounds bad out of the box, don’t wait for a miracle to happen; send it straight back to whomever you got it from because the speaker has serious problems. If it sounds quite good but has a very subtle graininess, or a few mild distortions, or the sound is crisp but still pleasant, then you’ve got a keeper! Sit back and be patient, and you will be pleasantly rewarded within 15-20 hours of moderate playback levels – this amount of break-in time will get you to about 80%-complete break-in. Beyond that, a functionally full and nearly complete break-in period of 200+ hours is quite reasonable and is to be expected.
A direct comparison would be ideal. I imagine we will get some of those in time, once there are a few SEs out in the wild and if a reviewer decides to do the direct comparison.
As you know, in this hobby, the comparison is generally by memory. The more recent the better. So it comes down to whether you trust that particular poster's memory and consistency.
My expectation is for a slight evolution across the parameters we tend to focus on. I'll be very satisfied if Eric's SEs deliver that.
I would agree break in is rather fast with the DI's. I felt after 75-100 hrs I was there.
Interesting comments on driver break in by Eric. I suspect that the prolonged break in by some speakers may relate to woofers with particularly stiff rubber surrounds or maybe even more so the passive crossover components, caps in particular.
The eagle has landed. I got my DIs this morning, but I had to bail, and didn't get a chance to open them. I will when I get home.
At first glance, though, I'm wondering how you get these speakers out of the boxes without tearing up the packaging.
How did you guys do it? I imagine opening them up from a side seam in the box, that way, when returning them, you can tape the box up while making sure the speakers remain upright.
@evolvist. I opened the top only. I Laine them down and gently pulled the styrofoam out far enough to get my hand on the pocket on one side. I grabbed the cardboard flap with my teeth to keep the box from sliding toward me while pulling the speaker in the styrofoam toward me. Obviously, if you have help, your partner can pull the box toward them from the bottom while you pull the speaker out from the top. An easier way would be to cutter bottom and push the entire contents out with your foot while holding the box flap . The feet are taped into the styrofoam at the top by the way!
Ha! Yeah. I would be a little less gentle perhaps (or maybe not) if the speakers weren't going back at some time in the future for an upgrade, but as is, I want to make sure everything is perfect. There were a couple of small dents in the box from shipping. I've taken photos. I hope these don't prove to be problematic.
Anyway, once I get them out, let the breaking in period begin. The cool thing is, I can leave them on all day doing their work, and most of the night, as well. I need to get snappy with my room treatment so that I can actually sit down and enjoy them.
@kdude66 It appears you are lost in the thralls of the Lyngdorf TDAI 2170. Or is it caught between a Fest of First Watts, 2A3s, etc. ..... please share.
They sound better than any other pair of speaker I've had in there.
That's impressive. Any additional details?
Well, yeah, now granted I'm in an echo chamber in that room, getting ready to paint, and put some considerable acoustic treatment in, but I've had EgglestonWorks Andra IIs, in there, Audio Physic Avanti 30th Anniversary, Vienna Acoustic Liszts, Dynaudio 340s, and some Decware ERRs, and....
...I'm not kidding, it's not about just getting a new toy, but I immediately heard that evenness from top to bottom. Well, almost, even. I wonder how much is the room. Seems a tad bass shy, but then again I don't have them on any stands, no spikes on yet, and I might be purchasing an Aric audio amp.
When I left home, to really get them kicking, I put on a bunch of hip-hop, and then things started cooking in the bass department, but then again, that's what you'd expect from old skool rap.
Do you guys think getting them off the floor will help in the bass?
The evaluation of the Lyngdorf is progressing quite nicely after 6 days of listening with this quite unique and different amp,I made the decision today to buy it. More to follow in time.
Congrats evolvist. I agree with David, the bass will fill in with time and installing the spikes or something else to fill those threaded holes will also definitely help.
Aric is great to deal with. He's finishing up my amp and will probably ship at the end of the week. Which amp are you looking at of his?
Kenny, I'm also looking forward to your assessment of the Lyngdorf. You have quite the stable of amps, my friend.
Sweet! I went with a raw aluminum chassis with black sides. Hoping its a good look and I’m sure it will be. I’m excited about the upgraded pure copper Audyn caps and hospital grade IEC filter. Aric’s initial listening impressions of them is quite good. I might copy Kennys 2A3 he had Aric build him just to have a change of pace amp to throw into the mix.
Not trying to convince you to buy one, but the Lyngdorf is a digital amp, not really a true Class D amp nor should it be in the same category as others.
Integrated amplifiers have never enjoyed the same respect audiophiles pay to separate components. Similarly, Class D amplification has been the “Scarlet Letter” of the high-end audio realm due to a sea of mass-market amplifiers that make more “noise” than “music”. Borrowing heavily from technologies developed for the cost-no-object Steinway Lyngdorf audio systems (yes, THAT Steinway) the TDAI-2170 aims not to simply level the high-end audio playing field, but to flip it on its head entirely. Fundamentally different from traditional Class D amplifiers, the sleek TDAI-2170 produces a sound so clean, so neutral, so devoid of any sonic signature, it disappears completely and restores the emotional response that made me fall in love with music to begin with."
As someone that owned a TDAI-2170 it sounded like a good Class D amp to me, that’s not a negative thing. It was certainly one of the cleanest amps I’ve heard and a great one box solution.
IMO, people get too wound up into "is it a tube or is it SS", when IMO the question should be "is it good and do I like it?" I bet in some double blind tests, people that swear their allegiance to one or the other would get a few of them wrong.
Of course, anyone has the right to say "I only want to spend my money on this type of equipment", but there is some really good stuff out there on both sides of the aisle.
I agree 100%. I was coming from a more technical standpoint. I don't think the Lyngdorf has a sonic signature like most people put on Class D. Icy, cold and sterile.
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