I ove this speakers , on my set up they sound really very dynamic and easy to listen. Is there anyway to replace their tweeters to improve them? I do love the design of the impact.Thanks
To be honest, a lot of negativity around Tekton has little to do with the product itself. A lot of members here are just frustrated with Tekton being shoved down their throats by a couple of posters ALL the time, day in and day out. It was one thing if it was done tactfully, but more often than not the shills have a very condescending tone. I think the owner would do well to talk to the shills and ask them to calm down, instead of threatening members with legal action. This just makes a bad situation worse.
Also, maybe cool down the ’better than $30K’ rhetoric? Everyone knows that’s simply not true. Why tarnish your reputation by making such outlandish claims?
to the OP, if you are running with David, you have an excellent audio friend…one not prone to hyperbole, self aggrandizement and ego. He strikes me as a true sojourner on the quest for better sound.
On clipping, you might be shocked that a simple hand clap on a Nora Jones cut can clip a 150 wpc amp w 87 db speakers. Hopefully you can get your speakers up and running again soon.
@arafiq exactly and perfectly said, yet the other now deleted thread reveals the owners attitude, state of mind and political bent. He himself feeds the polarizing fire.
To be honest, a lot of the negativity around Tekton has to do with the product itself. From top to bottom they are so much better dollar for dollar than anything else, which means almost everyone else is stuck listening to overpriced crap, and this chafes. Also the technology is advanced and different enough it is hard to understand. This makes some people even more frustrated. Basically, they have nowhere to go. Stuck in the past, unable even to reply coherently because they don't get what's going on, they are left with nothing but childish insults.
This all stems from a fundamental misunderstanding: audio is not a zero sum game. My speakers being good does not make yours bad. My $4k speakers sounding great does not negate enjoying your $30k. Don't put them side by side and you will be fine.
Just please lay off the name calling. Makes you sound a bit butt-hurt, you know?
... a lot of negativity around Tekton has little to do with the
product itself ...more
often than not the shills have a very condescending tone. I think the
owner would do well to talk to the shills and ask them to calm down,
instead of threatening members with legal action.
It was the legal threat where Tekton really blundered, imo. For all the braying and boasting Tekton's products get here, its owner turned vicious once questions and criticisms were raised.
Also, maybe cool down the ’better than $30K’
rhetoric? Everyone knows that’s simply not true. Why tarnish your
reputation by making such outlandish claims?
Einstein, since you are continuing to put your messages on nonstop repeat I will repeat one of mine, since my original post was on the recently deleted thread.
It’s hard to believe that after plastering Audiogon with about 10,600 posts in two years that you are actually not selling your turntable on A’gon. Don’t you think a $65 fee to sell your turntable here is a small enough amount to pay to support and show your appreciation to this forum and its employees?
If I had not read another member mention it, I wouldn’t have believed it, but sure enough there it is on the free website: "FOR SALE: Teres Audio Verus Drive "Miller Carbon" Hall of Fame Turntable".
Well you know, those of us who buy and sell, no matter how much or little, are the ones that support this forum financially. Hate to say it, but the rest are free loaders if you don't help out when you can.
I am a certified public accountant so I guess that is my orientation.
Also the technology is advanced and different enough it is hard to understand.
and this is a selling point? lol
A great piece of sage advice from Robert Harley's book:
"Loudspeaker design relies on a balanced approach, not reliance on some new "wonder" technology that may have been invented by the loudspeaker manufacturer..."
Also Harley states:
"The more a speaker cabinet vibrates, the worse it is."
So be sure to read professional reviews of the speaker's performance in terms of generating unwanted resonance. If John Atkinson writes something like this when reviewing a speaker it's worth taking note:
"...the enclosure's panels seemed lively when I rapped them with my knuckles. Investigation with an accelerometer found two fairly strong, high-Q resonant modes, at 500 and 617Hz, on the sidewalls, and lower-level modes at the same frequencies on the top and rear panels."
When these types of resonances are present you may find that adding isolation or springs under a speaker may have a more profoundly beneficial impact than otherwise may occur with a well-damped speaker.
"It was the legal threat where Tekton really blundered, imo. For all the braying and boasting Tekton's products get here, its owner turned vicious once questions and criticisms were raised."....For me it was his refussal to answer direct and simple questions...testing methods as stereophile got much lower sensitivity numbers and to give a list of 50k to 100k speakers they conpared their speakers to.
@ghasley Good takeaway summary. I'm not sure it's meaningful to know what percentage of a speaker's total production is for sale on any given day. It would be more meaningful to know how many of the speaker owners sold them in less than a year. Unfortunately that's a stat we will never be able to obtain - although if this forum had a polling feature it would be helpful. In the meantime we will just rely on anecdotal reports which is fair, and how other info is generally received on all products.
If I had not read another member mention it, I wouldn’t have believed it, but sure enough there it is on the free website: "FOR SALE: Teres Audio Verus Drive "Miller Carbon" Hall of Fame Turntable".
Was there a photo on the wall showing him to be Times Man of the Year behind the turntable?
I was there, at Chuck’s weekend, I am not well read in here, and don’t have a following at all. I knew this when I tried to interest people into trying spring isolation, that someone as polarizing as millercarbon had to be introduced for anyone to pay any real attention.
After two days and nights listening at his home, I got some idea of millercarbon’s musical tastes. He has a large, lively room, with even less absorption than I have in a room about half the volume.
The Moabs do have cabinet colouration, (yep, British spelling, I’m Australian) and yes, the Moabs millercarbon has, in that room, with his electronics are enjoyable to listen to. Are they purist high end audio? They’re probably closer to $8k with the crossover and Townshend Isolation.
On my way up from Texas to Washington, I did stop by Viking Acoustics Santa Fe NM for a listen (thank you willgolf for the introduction) and listened to horn speakers for probably close to five hours, which were very very good. So good in fact, that if your listening room is larger than most, I will write up my impressions, perhaps someone will find of interest?
Back to the Moabs, in my opinion, for the money, to energise a room as large as millercarbons with a diminutive powered valve amp, the Moabs are a budget minded audiophile bargain. Perhaps this is where I become controversial, Focal for example make a floorstander that has considerable cabinet resonance, that is often ignored because it’s overall presentation is pleasing to those who buy them. Despite the resonance the Moabs actually surprised me, I wasn’t expecting them to sound as good as they did, based upon some parameters that I find important (especially the inertness of the cabinet and use of multiple drivers to deliver a coherent sound field).
My personal take was it reminded me more of a large performance hall, with a live rock band sound than the polite, and intimate, small venue that I tried to create in my small 24’ x 15’ listening room. I never play music at home at the higher levels millercarbon played some tracks at, which were still lower than many concerts I have attended, I’m more of an intimate, detailed and mellow levels music lover.
Was millercarbons system fun, exciting? Yes Did the Moabs create an image with defined and easily discerned spatial information of the performance? Yes Can I understand why he’d want to come home after work and sit back and listen to his system? Yes, I really can.
Does someone who eats Chinese food, find that Thai can be overbearingly spicy to the point it can eclipse the other flavours, because the focus will be on the burning sensation of the chilli? As equally true that someone used to eating Thai food regularly, might find (westernised at least) Chinese food a little bit polite, perhaps bland?
I think for someone not worried about absolute state of the art bang on accuracy, who enjoys the livelier side of music reproduction, will get the same kick out of Tekton Moabs (obviously in this case helped with substantial tweeks). He did play classical music as well, and the lack of heavy bass did reveal their capacity to image well with the array.
All of us are on some budget, and yeah, I do think they offer pleasure equal to the investment in a large listening room. I will bet however, that as millercarbon has invested in superior electronics than the Moabs can (as they stand) resolve at, he’ll eventually find something that works even better for him, as it seems, we all seem to do. They certainly provide value for money in entertainment!
@rixthetricks A seemingly very fair assessment and a refreshing representation in contrast to a guy who chooses to depict himself as Einstein, assert that Tektons are the best speaker he’s ever heard at any price, and then proclaim:
"almost everyone else is stuck listening to overpriced crap"
all while complaining about name calling in the same breath. Thanks for your pleasant contribution.
i will join in the chorus of thanks for your excellent contribution below
to me, there is no doubt that tektons work well in some environments, for some tastes, and for those people, there is value as the speakers are not terribly expensive - erik sells plenty of speakers, and even with a decent return rate, there are certainly many many who keep them and enjoy them
there is also no doubt that mc is clearly quite experienced at this pursuit, and has made serious efforts to make his choice of gear work in his environment, to suit his tastes (springs, bass arrays etc etc) -- that been said, all of us here with experience, who have been at this for many years as well, with healthy budgets for gear and listening room have done the same... that our efforts can make us happy is the aim for each of us, and most of us succeed
i believe the reason for the intense blowback towards mc and thus tektons (and raven amps) is the heavy handed, over the top, greater than thou way he in his onscreen persona chooses to express his opinions about their vast superiority ... it is basic human nature to react to that, post after post, with some level of antipathy and many eye-rolls -- certainly compared to what the rest of us have accomplished in our systems, such claims are suspect, at best
if it is his aim to encourage others to try his favorite brands because he likes them so much, there are certainly more effective, more sophisticated, more persuausive approaches to garner influence...
A fine line indeed. Texas could use more diplomats.
Which $30 k Focal are you speaking of ? Are owners of same boasting of destroying million dollar Wilsons ? ( the factuality astute know that no such animal exist. ) Like it or not, Wilson do measure the cabinet, and listen. Remember, “ only two things….” ?
There is a big difference between “owners enjoying Focal speakers “ and the self proclaimed sonic nirvana second coming.
And like @tvad i have a question. How many running hours were on the cables you hauled there ? Do you think they were fully formed when listening ?
“ None can free us, save our own minds “ Bob Marley.
@rixthetrick: I take it you live in Texas. Have you visited Danny Richie at his GR Research facility, located in Iowa Park? He welcomes visitors, and will demo his loudspeaker models for you. He sells his designs as kits (only), so they aren't for everyone. But you can at least hear what is possible at various price points.
And not to disparage Eric Alexander, but Danny considers loudspeaker enclosure resonance a very serious matter, his designs addressing it to a degree seen in few commercial plug-and-play offerings. Another designer who feels that way is Jim Salk (as did Albert Von Schweikert. Of course Wilson and Magico do, but you pay dearly for their approach.). Look at the bracing Salk employs in his speakers, the best I've ever seen. The enclosures he builds and into which installs Rythmik sub kits are insane, the best bracing I've ever seen. I copied it when I built my Rythmik subs; cross-braces every 4", front-to-back, left-to-right, and top-to-bottom.
@bdp24 ya, i built a lot of cabinets with brute force damping, it does work to a point. My $7,500 wonders have a cabinet within a cabinet, constrained layer between them. Point is, science, technology and good ears ( since 1977 ) can yield superb sound. I like Danny also, smart guy.
Hope to see you before we head South, maybe Java near your record shop in Portland
True…but that cloak can be pierced with a simple tool called screen capture. i am sure that the misguided libel threat was captured by somebody.
The new modern world comes with a body cam. Ask any “ Karen after the racist rant at Target. They are always so surprised…
like i said, i relish discovery on this subject. By deleting the thread, the threat “ this isn’t over “ hangs over many. Hopefully the powers that be at Audiogon understand the obligation for preservation of evidence in a threatened legal action.
Or they could publish a retraction from the hot head who made it.
@tomic601: Years ago Danny designed a 2 cu.ft. (I believe) sealed sub enclosure employing double walls, with the chamber between the two filled with sand. I designed my 4 cu.ft. sub enclosures for the Rythmik F15HP DIY Kit using that same idea (with a 1/2" space between walls), provided my cabinet maker with the schematics, and had him cut the panels out of high quality MDF. I made the braces out of Baltic Birch ply.
I ended up abandoning the idea, having realized that at the low frequencies handled by a sub it is wall stiffness that is important, and robust bracing (spaced 4" apart) is enough to achieve that objective. At bass frequencies, the pressure created inside the enclosure by woofer excursion causes the walls to expand and collapse (like inflating and deflating a balloon), the source of sub enclosure resonance.
The unsupported 4" expanse of MDF wall between braces does create a small amount of resonance , but at a frequency high enough above the range handled by the sub to not be a problem. MDF is heavy, a double-walled enclosure measuring 24" tall x 24" deep x 18" wide and filled with sand really heavy, so having a single-wall/no sand enclosure was welcomed by me!
Coffee (or drinks) sounds great, let me know when you'll be passing through Portland. Have you been to Music Millennium? Pretty darn good LP inventory.
1) Was any time spent listening to your loudspeakers? If so, what was the reaction?
Yes, actually on both days my speakers were given a generous amount of time to listen to. My wife actually proclaimed that after listening to Tracy Chapman on vinyl it was the best sound she'd ever heard. I will admit when we got outside I was angry at her blanket statement and asked her if it sounded better than a live full piece orchestra at the Wagner Noel Performing Arts Center? She said it was her favourite reproduction of Tracy Chapman she'd heard and she's no audiophile and I must say, the Tekton Moabs with his turntable and valve amp did sound very good, lively, and enjoyable.
I have a pair of speakers designed by an unknown Australian legend, using composite materials, HD3 from New Zealand which is 1.6 times denser than MDF and waterproof (used by the Australian government as public toilet walls, because it is very resilient against vandalism), a birchwood plywood baffle brace on the tweeter end of the baffle. It also has 4mm sprung steel plates laminated on the inside, with both cast iron rods and silicone filled hard drawn copper rods as side wall bracing.
On the second day, my Lenehan Audio ML2 were connected to the Raven amp and his record player, and we got some time on that. I asked him if I could leave his amp in, and Jeff Smith from Silversmith Audio let me use his RCA development cables to connect my digital front end in. To be clear, I did not design these speakers, I build them from components while I was working at Lenehan Audio, building for them. I do have a reasonably good understanding of the technologies involved, and can readily discuss them.
Fidelium cables - Jeff said that the cables would make a difference with hours on them or not, they had maybe three days before bouncing across America to Washington. Jeff himself wasn't too worried about the hours, it seemed his geometry, materials and design worked without needing hours to settle in, and it did sound very clean and the sound was sharp and fast.
2)
Was any time spent listening to the Moabs without the distributed bass
array, so visitors could get an idea of the Tektons without bass
augmentation?
I don't recall so, and the first day I did use the bass array with my diminutive stand mounts in his much larger room. There's simply no way my pair of 6.5" bass drivers supported by a port were ever going to energise a room of that size, with any sort of authority. Any cabin gain that is realised in an appropriately sized listening room for my speakers certainly wasn't going to work here. They are tiny but mighty, just not a large room solution.
The array in my perspective did not hurt the overall presentation, and yet, I will admit I didn't get to hear it without DBA though. Honestly though, I had no problem with the mc sound, perhaps as another had stated it wasn't the critical listening regime that a reviewer would make over months of assessment, we had a weekend to have a listen, get impressions and it was supposed to be fun - not work.
A totally funny moment was when Mike Levine (oh and when I do get time, I'd like to write about our visit to his place) went to place the back of his hand on Chuck's Moabs to discern the cabinet's involvement in the overall sound. Though he was gentle (this guy by the way is a totally classy bloke) the speaker did yield with compliance at his hand gesture, he quickly reacted to try and stop it toppling over, but as he did put his hands either side to attempt to cradle the large speaker, it rocked back the other way. And so he was moving back and forth, exactly in tune with the rocking of the speaker. The room burst with laughter, nothing was harmed, and Mike was a totally good sport about it - yes speakers on good sprung isolation are compliant to the touch, which is a major reason it works so well actually. Welcome to the wacky world of Townshend Audio, springs and such!
The Focals - They were traded in, I will have to ask for the actual model though. Mike ran a sweeping white noise signal through them, and I heard multiple nodes where the cabinet rang out. This is absolute high end audiophile testing, this is not to say they don't sound good or present well. These are $16k speakers in Australia, with from what I recall, good reviews as well. I'm not here to disrespect Focal owners, just conveying my experience. The Focals were traded in twice, the second owner bought Lenehan Audio ML5. I will get back with the model, soon as I ask my old employer.
Yes, actually on both days my speakers were given a generous amount of time to listen to. My wife actually proclaimed that after listening to Tracy Chapman on vinyl it was the best sound she’d ever heard.
That’s quite a statement! Also, speaks to the front end, and amplification.
I haven't seen any listening impressions posted about your speakers from the get-together, so this is nice to read. Kudos to you!
Regarding Mike L. causing the Moabs to sway, I recall a moment when a local high end cable fabricator came over to help install some long interconnects I had purchased. He had not seen my system before, and at the time my speakers (+ stands) were on Townshend podiums. He too touched the speakers, which caused them to sway. It caught him off guard, for sure.
I had a pair of Impact Monitors. They were not my cup of tea. I heard none of the magic that others report from the seven driver array. But that's ME in MY room with MY electronics. Hats off to others that love them.
On the modification of professionally designed speakers... I worked for one of the big upper mid-fi brands in the 80's and 90's. I spent a lot of time with the engineers because my job was to translate the technology to the lay person for marketing and training purposes. These engineers would sweat all manner of things - tiny details in every aspect of materials, design, and manufacturing. And they had anechoic chambers, and various technologies to help them.
The idea that the average person can take a finished, well designed product, and buy a random component off the rack and expect it to improve the product is kind of strange. I like to make the analogy to the motor oil additive industry. Take Quaker State, Castrol, Mobil, Shell, etc. They spend an enormous amount of money and manpower on R&D. Folks with Ph.D.s in chemistry, etc. They come up with a formulation for a specific application. What's the chance that an average person can walk into a Pep Boys, buy a random additive, and improve the performance of their motor oil? Possible? Sure. Not likely.
My guess is that if you want to tinker, buy a kit and build some stuff on your own. It will be more rewarding and productive. I did and it was a blast! But I still have professionally designed speakers in my main listening space.
I really still don’t understand how loud the speakers had to have been played to burn out the drivers, unless the amps were clipping. I would think it would be excruciatingly loud.
Also, I don’t understand the concept, but I have heard sometimes DC leakage can burn out drivers.
Never read any reports of this brand of speakers having drivers fail before, I'm sure lots of people crank it to 11..
Jetter I myself was surprised they exceeded the thermal limits and burn the voice coil , when I was playing them, As far as I remember Using Krell preamp KRC 3 , I never exceeded 10,
Spacecade when I first got the Tekton impact , I know I like them, but I knew they have potential to sound better, when I went to listen to 1 Markr system Agon member, close friend of mine, He was able to make the impact sound so musically dynamic. Even close to live music. This experience confirm my suspicions the impact with the right gear, they will perform beyond you hope for.
At times it takes long time to be able to find the right match, and to learn whatever gear you add to your system, unfortunately very few has the patience to wait. Good example When Robert Harley reviewed the yagdrassil for couple of weeks it did not even sound good , it took a month I think before the yagdrassil show how good it is.
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