Upgrade my CD player or futile effort?

Given your equipment at a minimum I would recommend a Schiit Yggy if you want to go the budget route. The Yggdrasil will compare well with DACs significantly more expensive. But unless you kick you digital end up a few notches it is going to continue to sound terrible in contrast to your analog end. For years I made investments that were futile because the analog end sounded so much better. Trying out real budget stuff isn’t going to be cost effective in pursuit of high sound quality.

Lots saying that Marantz cd players suck! Bull....they make some very nice cd players and have won awards year after year on s few...my marantz hd cd-1 is a very nice player, however I run it into a Border Patrol r2r dac with a tubed power supply. Sounds great. The hd cd-1 is out of production, but if you can find one used, it's a good choice. I'd also have to agree on a previous poster concerning the Marantz SA8005. It is also great and built like a tank, also discontinued. 

Not a Futile effort. Upgrade the CD player. Thank me later.

Happy Listening!

I had the Marantz 8005  years ago.  Great midrange but rolled off the top end

I upgraded recently from a Denon DCD 1600NE to a Marantz SACD 30N and must say I'm enjoying the *new* Marantz sound.
CD/SACD player, proprietary Dac, Streamer & PreAmp. 
Nice upgrade that didn't break the bank.

Quick weigh-in as the owner of a Bryston BCD-3. For years I was using a Rotel RCD-971 CD player, a mid-line winner of many honors, modified with an upgraded clock from LC Audio to reduce jitter and their amazing Zapfilter, a single-end Class A analog stage that bypassed the opamps. I thought I was the boss. It was great. The Rotel finally wore out a board that could not be replaced and after a lot of research I went in for the Bryston. Well, it blew that little Rotel right out of the water. The refinement, tone, depth and clarity of sound is stunning. It's truly a high-end, mature and beautiful piece of equipment. It's also relatively inexpensive compared to the high-quality transport/DAC setups out there that would compete with it. There is no SACD. It's just a no-frills spinner. The tray, too, is very stable and girded by steel bars. I love it. 

Personally, if you intend to stick to the CD medium at all, I suggest a transport + external DAC option as have many others posting so far. The Cambridge CXC-V2 is inexpensive ($550) and has a good reputation for reliability and customer service (per the local shop and scattered reviews anyway). I own one and use it with a Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ and it seems satisfying.
The other question is: Do you intend to use CDs into the future? While the medium is supposedly moribund, there are thousands of these on the used market for very low prices. That alone is enticing to me (especially given the close proximity of a fabulous music store nearby).
So, I think you could get a very nice CD playback setup for not too much money and use the savings to buy used discs (or upgrade the rest of your system).

I realized you've already committed to a specific upgrade but I'll add my 2 cents anyway.  As important as a DAC may be, the transport is at least equally significant.  The elimination of vibration and an accurate reading of the disc is where all the sound originates.  If that part of the system is inferior, everything which follows will suffer.

That being said, if you ever want to jump into the DEEP end of the CD player world, probably the best CD player ever made is the Naim CD555, coupled with the Naim 555 power supply.  It's even better when using two of the 555 power supplies, one to power the analog circuitry and the other to power the digital circuitry.  This is what I use along with a very high end analog system.  (Kuzma Stabi XL DC turntable w/ the Kuzma 14" 4 point tonearm and a Koetsu Rosewood Signature Platinum cartridge)  All of this plays into a Naim Statement system and then into Grandinote Mach 36 speakers.  All the cables are Luna (Noir).

Anyway, the Naim CD 555 is very expensive and is no longer in production (since 2017) but you can occasionally find one on the used market (as I did) for around $15,000 (including the power supply)

I appreciate the suggestion for a CD transport. After I see what the DAC is doing, I will probably go down that road. But doing one change at a time is something I need to stick to. In the past I got multiple new parts to my system at once and it became a real challenge to find out what piece had improved what. For now I am excited to see what the Denapris Ares II will do for the CD6005. Patience is a virtue 🙂

@baylinor,
It should be interesting to see the outcome of your quest.

I’ve tried various CD players over the years and they all sounded more or less the same.

Therefore I stopped at my current deck, the Marantz CD6000ki.

I gradually diverted my energies into finding better masterings of various CD releases over the years - and yes, there are easily discernible differences to be found.

Differences which simply dwarf any of those to be found between any of the CD players I’ve heard, and I’ve heard quite a few.

These included various Marantz and Arcam decks, the Rega Saturn, the Linn CD12, Pioneer SACD, a few UK tuned Sony’s.

The only ones I haven’t heard are those strange hybrids which feature a tube output.

Perhaps it’s also worth bearing in mind that whilst not all LPs were not all equally well recorded and mastered, with CDs the search becomes increasingly more difficult.

It’s far easier unfortunately to compress the sound of a CD than it is of vinyl. Therefore we audiophile fans of mainstream music rarely get to hear just what they are capable of.

Not that those who produce the music could care any less of what we may think.

@orenstein,
" I realized you’ve already committed to a specific upgrade but I’ll add my 2 cents anyway. As important as a DAC may be, the transport is at least equally significant. The elimination of vibration and an accurate reading of the disc is where all the sound originates. If that part of the system is inferior, everything which follows wilOrnstein,


Words of true wisdom and experience. Too often I read well meaning advice in regard to digital audio. It generally over emphasizes the DAC and treats the transport as an afterthought (Any run of the mill CD player will do). Yes a CD player or cheap transport will function, but not at a high level.

Choosing a high quality, well designed/engineered transport will result in a significant improvement (Compared to any old CD player will do mindset) in CD playback sound quality. They deserve the same level of thought and consideration as the DAC. Both are important and should be viewed as a matched pairing. No one would saay I have an excellent cartridge so the turntable,  tone arm or phono stage don't matter as much. The entire front end chain matters.
Charles
"

If you spend an equal amount on your CD player to your vinyl rig you might find cd superior 

Or not.

the Marantz/Ares combo may work great with CD being a small part of your listening, and if you move up, the Marantz is great for a second system, and you may be surprised what the Ares can do with a better transport...then after, the options become endless...

Done deal!
Ordered the R2R Denafrips Ares II
Couldn't have done it without you guys input.

Don't forget that you can still service your CD player.
(1) Clean the contacts with a contact cleaner.
(2) Check to see that it is level.
(3) Aftermarket Feet to assist with vibration control.
(4) Open up the unit and use dynamat - again for vibration control.  
https://youtu.be/VoxC3st7WQw

Congrats on the Ares ll — I’m sure you’ll notice quite an improvement in transparency, soundstage, detail, etc. Just make sure you get a decent digital cable or it can undermine your performance. The Apogee Wyde Eye I recommended earlier is a solid choice, but there are others from Canare, etc. that are also very good — just make sure you get at least 1m length. Let us know what you think once the Denafrips has a few hours on it.

@soix 
I already bought the one you recommended!
Thanks.

Great.  One important tip — the Wyde Eye is directional so pay attention to the directional arrows printed on the outer jacket as they are small and can be hard to see.  I installed mine backwards once and it was an unpleasant experience until I figured out what was wrong. 

The Ares II would have been my first choice, but I needed a preamp and headphone amp, so I chose the RME. While I am loving my choice so far, I would like to hear what you think about the Ares after you have had some time with it. Exciting purchase!

@soix 
Arrow pointing to DAC I assume?

@jredeii
It's coming from Singapore so it will be a while. Plus they say they do a 100 hrs burn in and other steps before it ships, which seems like great customer service. Will update in time.

Just woke up, of course arrow in direction of signal, duh.
Thanks for the tip.

https://youtu.be/bb-O8JF24P
@baylinor you may find this worthwhile.  Looking forward to your listening impressions between the two digital components if you have the time to do so.
Charles 

Yes please report back on the new DAC.

I’m surprised that no one had mentioned the PS Audio cd transport combined with their DAC. I have their Perfect wave SACD transport with their PW dac. 
Heavenly. It’s not cheap, but…

I am itching to try Technics SL-G700. Currently backordered(?chip shortage). All-in-one solution that has been praised by a lot of owners on the forums. Don’t know whether the DAC is R/2R or 1-bit. 

Keep us updated, have you warmed up your CD player?

Left on for a few days spinning a disc..?


I’m not familiar with the spinner you purchased, I will investigate further......l



 we use the McCormack UDP-1 upstairs, and the pioneer elite dv-79avi downstairs, I may bring the elite upstairs, she is a wonderful audio player, maybe even better than the McCormack, it is a close race between the 2. 

I would have bought the Rotel CD player.

I have a Marantz player and it definitely does not suck. Maybe just good with my system.

Give your current gear a fair shake!
Have you considered these?:
* Marigo Audio Aida cd mat
* UltraBit Platinum-Plus disc treatment
* Walker Talisman demagnetizer

The Denafrips Ares II was shipped yesterday. Will report on sound with the Marantz CD6005. The combo may be so pleasing I may not need to look at a transport. If so it would probably be the Audiolab 6000 CDT. 

baylinor

I am looking forward in reading your initial impressions and thoughts.

Happy Listening!

What’s a CD? :). You know what’s on my turntable right now?  The box that my MSB Discrete DAC and Premier Power Base came in, LOL!  Seriously, running the Discrete direct to my Pass Labs 250.8 sounds fantastic.  I can’t imagine messing around with CD’s any more when I have everything ripped in hi-def to my RS9 music server and Qobuz for streaming.  To my ears, you get great sound, convenience, access to a huge music collection (I listen to mostly jazz on Qobuz and classic rock on the server) that beats a CD.  Incidentally, I totally relate to your tactile desires for vinyl, where you can look at the cover and album notes, etc.  But you know what?  With Roon, you get album covers (I use an iPad to control everything), very interesting details on most albums and artists, lyrics to songs, and Roon will curate music for you without even getting up from your chair.  I still have my vinyl collection from college (1K+ albums), but they are now more a display for my music room, although sometimes I pull an album out while its streaming, for nostalgia (and sometimes a bonus from double albums that fall out from my college days in the ‘70’s, LOL).  I just don’t see any reason to go back to CD’s when Roon and streaming are so good. As usual, YMMV!

I just don’t see any reason to go back to CD’s when Roon and streaming are so good.

^That^ works with an internet connection, but in a vehicle it is easier to have bought the CD and either play it, or play it via an iPad/iPhone.

No computer/wifi in my dedicated listening house, and intend to keep it that way. But I hear the ones who swear by streaming. Different strokes for different folks. Or more simply, different pace of living. Music to me is not a technology miracle, rather a visceral physical experience. Hence I love the physical part of playing it. 
The DAC cleared customs and is in Memphis. May get it Monday. 10 days, pretty excellent from Singapore!

Audio Research Ref CD9 SE. 

I forgot to mention, Audio Note UK. 

@holmz,what I do in the car is either stream from my server using Plex, or I use the Qobuz app on my iPhone.  No need for CD's!

Using my personal experience as a description to assist with the OP's inquiry.
I am new to using CD in my System, it has been a Source for a few years only, to be accurate since 2016/2017.
I am quite familiar with CD and have heard it as a source in many systems and have had a fair share of CD vs Vinyl Demonstrations.
Until my commencement of using CD as a Source, I was convinced that a Vinyl Chain as a Source was the only stimulus I required.

What changed was not such that an experience with CD was responsible for the change, but more motivated by how I was perceiving the use of CD in relation to it being a Second Source to the carefully created Vinyl Source. I was forming the view Cartridge Life could be extended if CD's of the same owned Albums was to be used to create an alternate listening experience with new hard media for already owned Albums that are Vinyl. 
My entrance into the use of CD was quite blunt, I put a CDP from a sons bedroom set up into my System and kicked of with my Sons CD's to get going.
Nothing special going on, but music was seemingly more convenient as I was not feeling the need to be adhered to the listening seat, I could crank up the Volume leave a few doors open and get on with a few tasks.

This evolved into a want to create the CDP experiences with better known music and hence the Journey began.

At a later period in 2017  a friend loaned me a Heavily Modified and much improved CDP and this was to show the used CDP to be very wanting.
I was impressed with the loaned CDP and began to carry out Vinyl vs CD replay comparisons, and the separation in SQ between the two sources was not too distant. It was definitely not in the same separation that was noticeable between the two CDP's.

Then came dilemma time, must return loaned CDP, must decide how to replace CDP ?  CDP or CDT > DAC was now the new thought process.
During this period I also went and had demonstrations form HiFI Dealers who presented streaming sources with a value of up to £6000 and one was in a System that retails at £100 000+, I felt the streaming system presentations was not impacting on myself, or making an impression I could attach myself to and want to pursue.

I did not use my well tried and test methods of getting out and trialling devices on a shortlist.
An opportunity came along to purchase a DAC, that was a early Prototype Production from a designer who has a range of DAC's.
I took the punt and purchased the DAC.
The DAC was first auditioned at another home on a system I am very familiar with and know the CDP qualities that are available within this system. Both myself and the system owner was quite impressed with how the DAC had created very noticeable and impressive changes to the CD replay in this system.

Cutting to the chase the DAC after a period of trials with CDP's and CDT's the DAC has now found a place where it has been coupled to a Perfect Wave Memory Player Transport for the past few years.
I don't see a need to make a change as I have heard the DAC in quite a few systems with other CD Drives.
I have not spent any energy pursuing any further changes, even though I have been through a selection of COAX Cables and feel I now have a ideal Cable in use.

As a comparison to the Vinyl Source, I have chose to a selection of these with HiFi minded friends in attendance. I feel confident to claim all assessments will evaluate that the outcome of these are a close run race. I have noted that  during a 'same Album' Vinyl vs CD comparison,            there are differences to be detected, but let one Album play on in CD for a short extended period and there will not be any want to return to the other Source, the listening experience is totally satisfying. 

For less than the outlay of a Cartridge that would be classed as quality Cartridge but not High End Spec', I have a CDT > DAC and a good selection of CD's to be replayed.  I don't have to concern myself too much about a loss of SQ, as there isn't much to be detected.
I can have music sit down in the listening chair sessions and be totally content, or heard all throughout the house levels of music, through not feeling the need of being in the Listening Room, just increasing the Volume and I am free to vacate as I do not feel the need to monitor the replay extensively. My discipline developed with Vinyl will not allow me to have this attitude towards a Vinyl Replay.

My hierarchy of music replays are Vinyl
( Too Long a relationship with the care of the Vinyl Media, the reverence of the Total Luxury Cartridge Purchases, and the pursuing of knowledge for extending my understanding of the critical mechanics and geometric interfaces are a underlying obsession) 
CD follows, but now with a conviction for the Source, Listening Freedom and a SQ that I did not foresee being produced.
(Thankfully the CD Media does not cause me an obsessional pursuit of furthering my knowledge)
'Amazon Alexa' an Ancillary used for convenience and gaining Speedy reminders of music I am depriving myself of listening to on the system, as well as reminding myself of forgotten past musical encounters, this is a wonderful device as a Low Tech streaming method with a SQ that has room for many improvements. 
(My most extended periods of hearing music being replayed over the past 18 Months is through Alexa, the total convenience is quite unavoidable it is seemingly always turning out tunes)
Serious attempts at streaming are not seeming to become a priority, but I am optimistic that a method will be discovered to get my interest going.   
       
     

@holmz,what I do in the car is either stream from my server using Plex, or I use the Qobuz app on my iPhone.  No need for CD's!

Yeah, but that assume one is not in the middle of nowhere, with no phone towers within hours.

I mean, I understand when you say your digital knowledge is limited, but you’ve spent 20x more on your vinyl rig yet ask if trying to upgrade your $500 CD player is “futile?” Just how bad do you think digital sound is??? What the hell do you expect from a total investment of 500 bucks? How would a $500 vinyl rig including cartridge and phono pre compare to your current setup? Where does simple common sense kick in here man? C’mon. 

It is just pulling the 1s and 0s off of the disk. When they pushed these in the 80s it was spruicked as God’s gift to audio.
But I can see the DAC and the jitter are important.

I realized you've already committed to a specific upgrade but I'll add my 2 cents anyway. As important as a DAC may be, the transport is at least equally significant. The elimination of vibration and an accurate reading of the disc is where all the sound originates. If that part of the system is inferior, everything which follows will suffer.

Again, it either pulls the bits off, or it has bit errors.

Don't forget that you can still service your CD player.
(1) Clean the contacts with a contact cleaner.
(2) Check to see that it is level.
(3) Aftermarket Feet to assist with vibration control.
(4) Open up the unit and use dynamat - again for vibration control.  
https://youtu.be/VoxC3st7WQw

Do these transports all give dodgy numbers out?


I am in a similar boat with a daggy old CD player. I would like to come into something like a Topping D70, but then does the transport matter at all?
And then, there are also 10 MHz clock, and other rates that once can use to sync the DAC.

e,g. https://nadac.merging.com/product/merging-player

@pindac, I really appreciate your detailed journey regarding CDs.
It does point to me that digital can be a plus to anyone if done correctly, even to those who's systems are strictly analog vinyl. Way to keep an opened mind!

The Denafrips Ares II came in early! Got it yesterday noon. Spent a few hours testing it out with my Marantz CD6005. Here are my impressions:
First off, the CD6005 needs to have the audio EX setting OFF. I had it on audio EX 2 and no sound came out. Rechecked all the connections and perplexing sat in front of it thinking what the hell? Then it downed on me that maybe the audio EX 2 being there to turn the digital signal into something more analog wasn't sending the full digital signal the DAC needed. Sure enough, once on audio EX OFF, the sound came on.
The Dac supposedly has a 100 hrs burn-in at factory before shipping. However I also read they recommend to leave the unit on fully powered for 10 days before setting it on the standby mode when not in use.
Meaning what I heard for a few hours yesterday will change, probably in a positive way.
The first and most important thing to me is to find out which of the OS or the NOS setting is best for you. It can be adjusted on the front of the unit. OS has the option of a slow or fast filter, NOS is not affected by the filters. As I found out NOS is 100% the way to go for my analog ears. A lot of folks online swear by the OS slow setting. I would bet that these folks have digital ears because that setting is basically as close to full digital sound you could get. Analytical, super clear sound, so much that it can be strident and tiring. Not my cup of tea at all. The NOS setting is musical, enveloping, makes most music sound live, without exaggerated coloration. In short it sounds as close to analog as you can get. I honestly don't understand why anyone would buy an r2r DAC and set it on OS to make it sound digital. Get a chip DAC instead. This r2r is meant to sound analog and NOS does just that. I also set the phase to positive instead of negative because I gather the majority of recordings would sound better that way. So far the sound is very big, very wide with a very clear definition between all the instruments while maintaining a solid togetherness. It's hard to understand how the sound can be that clear and well defined while having no hint of harshness but present a smooth, well rounded analog sound. It is like live music, the way I like it, not colored, or at least not overly colored. I am impressed so far and may find out a CD transport may not be necessary. I am not at analog level yet, but getting closer. Will know more in a couple weeks.

Congrats on your purchase and happy you are so please with the results. 

Great news. Please post any further updates as you get used to the new piece!

Good advice all around. To my ears, being formerly a violinist in a well-regarded orchestra and currently a research scientist, I suggest that the best western classical music available now is contained on high resolution CD disk. Much better than either the finest vinyl available and certainly better than any streamed source. I own an Esoteric K-01XD SACD player and have owned other kit from DCS and MSB Tech. To each their own!

I prefer my Ares II with the Cambridge CXC transport...Cambridge sells refurb V2 units with warranty and free returns for about $350, not always, but usually available...the V1 and V2 are identical except for appearance...

@baylinor,
Congratulations and I’m glad your early listening impressions are so favorable. I do believe that you are in store for further sound quality improvement with additional burn-in time. You have a good quality DAC and it will undoubtedly elevate sonically with a better transport connected to it. But no rush, one step at a time, get use to/ familiar with your new DAC.
Charles

Very recently I have listened to a Denafrips Ares that was newly imported so I will assume it is the Model II.
This was compared to a Linn DAC that had recently received one of the Companies offered upgrade treatments.
The CDT was a Wadia Model from a bygone era.
The Linn was also used with a Streamer Device as well
Both DAC’s were with components that had almost Zero usage time, and the Denafrips presented in the manner that was making it look like it was getting the upper hand in the SQ.

At this same DAC demonstration, I also received a demonstration of a New Imported Phasemation EA 350 Phonostage against a New Design All Valve Phonostage.
The TT was a SP10R with Glanz 12" Arm and a Miyajima Cartridge.

The Denafrips Ares when compared to the Linn DAC stood out for its delivery, especially knowing it was needing a extended use to allow it to really offer the truth of its capabilities.
I do recall saying that in my home a Streamer with the sort of SQ being heard would be quite welcome for a second system to be used by other family members. 

Both Phon’s were in my view able to deliver a much more impressive presentation, when compared to the DAC’s but each Phon’ is close to Five Times the Purchase Value of the Denafrips Ares.
From my own personal preference, I prefer a CDT > DAC that can deliver in a manner that conjures up the thoughts of it sounding Vinyl Like, but I am sure this can mean very different thing to each assessing the experience.

The Denafrips Ares during the Demonstration, in its rawest of usage time did not offer what I refer to as a Vinyl Like delivery,  the Ares and the Linn has the shared traits of a more commonly experienced CD presentation and SQ, the Clarity and Lucidity is quite noticeably present, I did suggest at the time the experience would be a great to return to when each device has had a few hundred hours of usage. 

To keep the events during the demonstration in context, the Denafrips was sold to a attendee of the demonstration a few days after the event and the seller of the Ares purchased a Denafrips Terminator, I will hopefully hear this later in the year.
The All Valve Phonostage was retained by the systems owner and purchased.