I had a whole collection of Mannheim Steamroller Christmas LP's that I never listened to until this past holiday season. They are easily my favorites now. Not a huge Christmas music fan but some is certainly enjoyable. I always listened to TSO over the Christmas season and often just the CD's. I bought them on vinyl but it is nowhere near as engaging as the MS vinyl at least that I recall. So many system changes lately, it's hard to keep track. The 30/40 MS double album is also one of my new favorites. Had it for years and never heard it. Funny how that goes. So much vinyl, so little time. |
I don't stream anything..........yet. Never say never but I am very content listening to vinyl and cd's, mostly vinyl. For serious listening, it is vinyl 90% of the time. So...........I'm really looking for what pieces of vinyl stand out as stellar performers in your collection, such that you use them for reference. Jazz is something I never listen to so any jazz albums will mean nothing to me. No intent to offend, I just won't know it. Thanks for any input and to those who already replied. |
For me it is usually Opus 3's Test Record 1. Especially the first track, Therese Juel's Tiden Bara Går. Then Barbirolli's Elgar Cello Concert and Sea Pictures. Both are very well recorded (goes without saying for any Opus 3 recordings) and I know them intimately, which means I quickly pick up on differences in the sound. |
I spent some bucks on high quality vinyl. Some sound a smidge better than streaming, but not enough for me to play vinyl when streaming is so easy. Personal preference. I do have the Jennifer Warnes and Kacey Musgraves on vinyl. James Taylor - Hourglass is another favorite. The majority of the music that I play currently was discovered by streaming. I wouldn't even know about many of my favorite musicians without it. If I really like a recording, I often buy the cd. I bought the October Project cd directly from the band via Bandcamp. |
Interesting responses. I find it hard to imagine that streaming can compare to high quality vinyl but not hearing it for myself, I certainly cannot say. For me and my system, vinyl has been the preference at least 90% of the time. My system is geared to it but I've never been convinced to go another way. I do see some die hard old vinyl guys like me, switching to streaming nowadays. It is hard for me to imagine but maybe someday I'll hear it for myself and be convinced. For now, as I say, I am pleased with how I listen. In my critical listening, I listen for certain key things, piano, violins and cellos, female voices and while I'm not a big "brass enthusiast", I do appreciate when brass sounds real on a recording. I also pay attention to drums and percussion. There is so much detail to all the percussion instruments and how they come across in recordings. See if you can pick out Ziljan cymbols on CD or streaming. If you can, I'm impressed. I've never heard cymbols sound close to real on CD. Drums OTOH, can sound quite good. Vinyl or tape has always done it the best in what I've ever heard. Pure analog even though some has been accomplished in a digital recording studio. Madonna, Ray of Light on German vinyl (Warner), is an example of this. I'm not a big Madonna fan but this is one helluva recording and she sounds as good as she ever had. I'm not so much of a fan of her voice or her songs but this double album is very good and very well done. Other female vocalists that stand out for me are Tori Amos, Pat Benatar, Linda Ronstadt and Sarah McLachlan. All have beautiful voices and made some high quality recordings on vinyl. I remember Joni Mitchell from my youth and I was never a huge fan, found her sort of "quirky" . She gets mentioned enough that I should probably get something of hers and give it a listen. Tastes and interests do change over the years. I also appreciate really deep bass. I grew up hearing my dad play a pipe organ. He was a church organist for 50 years. I have many pipe organ records. Nearly everything Virgil Fox ever did and all that I ever found on D2D. I have old speakers AR9's, original Teledynes, rebuilt about 20 years ago. I've never had better bass in my system as they are said to reach 18hz, probably down several Db at that point but they do reach very deep. The pipe organ sounds very real on them and the D2D's play down to 16 hz. I guess the AR9's can't quite do that but closer than most and they do so without audible distortion. Much modern music also has very deep bass and makes it kind of fun. I've gotten into Enya lately and she does a lot of very deep synthesizer tones. Cd and vinyl not much different in her recordings. Both are enjoyable. Just some of my thoughts. I enjoy hearing yours. Thanks, Bill |
I used to listen to Zappa Apostrophe a lot back in the 80s' Fun album but I don't think of it as reference material. It does have some interesting sounds and songs, humor mixed with musical talent. Zappa was one of the first live concerts I ever went to back in 1970. Weird but fun show. Frank was unusual to say the least. Dark Side of the Moon got a lot of play for me in the 70's. I have several copies of it. For real "oldies rock", I am more inclined to listen to Alan Parsons as reference material but Pink Floyd also did some good recordings, especially on Island when you can find them. Parsons is a recording engineer and it shows in his albums. Much like Chip Davis of Manheim Steamroller, nutty about getting it right. Many artists were perfectionists and many were not as well. It shows in their recordings.
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I absolutely find things on youtube and have made decisions to buy vinyl or cd's after hearing or seeing a video. Have found a lot that way and some I'm content just to leave on youtube and have a casual listen. The Spoon Lady is kind of fun. Tons more but I get a kick out of her. First found The Civil Wars there (nice vinyl recordings), The Dead South, tons of stuff. |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-hs0FtFGP4&list=OLAK5uy_mZPAqZRHIUWeCJLjC732VZ2dZHRiDMgGQ
Check this one out. The Hunter by Jennifer Warnes. I've used it and James Taylor's Hourglass as reference material for lots of years. |
1. Miles Davis - Bitches Brew. Japanese promo first pressing. 2. Mahavishnu Orchestra - Inner Mounting Flame. Japanese promo first pressing 3. Al Di Meola - Cielo e Terra. Japanese promo first pressing. 4. Dead Can Dance - Into The Labyrinth. Original UK pressing. 5.Dead Can Dance - Aion. Original UK promo. |
I have some Mahavishnu Orchestra. Will have to dig them out. Been awhile. Was listening to Al Di Meola with a buddy of mine on CD. It's interesting, not my thing but tolerable. It is very well recorded as is a lot of jazz. I just don't listen to it very often. There was a deep synthesized note or sound that had the single strongest impact I've ever heard on a recording. We were listening quite loud and made my buddy and I both smile. I'll have to check Oregon, much of this is unfamiliar to me but I'll try anything once. :) |
Pink Floyd DSOTM. Original first pressing, Island Records. Bought from Muffets Music, Providence. RI. I purchased it as an import, 10 days before it made its debut in the US.
I also use the Legacy Audio Music Sampler Volume 3 CD. I picked it up st 2017RMAF. There are many amazing tracks on it. I know you only wanted LP’s, but felt others may want to look for this. |
I have DSOTM on Island. Island is great and will always be better than the US copies. I also have a Japanese re-master version. The Island is still the best. I don't mind hearing about other sources, just that streaming is not what I have. CD's have their place and some are excellent, just not what I choose for "reference", since I am so heavily geared toward vinyl. CD's provide some great bass, some great impacts, voices can sound very natural, maybe not as "airy" as we can get but tubes may be lending a hand here too? But when it comes to the nitty gritty bits, especially percussion instruments other than drums, vinyl really shines. Organ chimes, bells, all the crazy weird little sounds. Vinyl or tape, pure analog just takes them to another level. Streaming might do it, I don't know. I have no experience with it. I just know what a reasonably good system can do with a nice LOMC and the gear that can support it. Vinyl jumps to life. |
Mahavishnu Orchestra was never well recorded, nor was Bitches Brew. But since I like all that so much I do use them to test the system. But MIles's trumpet still sounds about as it should on the recording. Inner Mounting Flame, especially a few tracks, are great to evaluate the dynamics. Oregon's bass player plays custom acoustic bass. It sounds excellent and goes low. |
I have a couple Japanese repressings of the Decca The Planets, performed by Mehta and the LA Phil in 1970. The Decca version was one of HP's "Super Disks," and I've used the Japanese audiophile pressings for many years for judging components. This work includes high-pitched massed violins, loud brass, organ pedals, big soundstage and wide dynamics, and I enjoy listening to it; as a performance it's my favorite version of The Planets. Another classical recording I've often used is the ASMIF 1st Brandenburg Concerto on Philips. It's revealing how different components differentiate the unison playing of the bassoon and bass and how they handle the dissonant, held notes of the French horns. I have a Connoisseur Society LP of Ivan Moravec playing Debussy and Ravel piano pieces that I also use--it's been praised by one of the Stereophile writers as a particularly good piano recording (I agree), and acoustic piano is an excellent instrument for evaluating audio gear. I also use US or UK pressings of DSOTM (although I prefer my MFSL Meddle) and my first pressing of Aja. I might also use my Classic Records reissue of the first Led Zeppelin LP or the MFSL of the 2nd, or my MCA Super Vinyl of Who's Next. |
Starwarrior Are those vinyl? Totally understand the fingers and frets. Good vinyl does that. Tori Amos, Under the Pink on pink vinyl is an excellent recording. The piano sounds very real. One song is a very beat up out of tune old piano. You can hear the pedals going up and down. Another song uses the full depth of cellos. Lots of acoustic and strings. It is really a good piece of vinyl but it took me 3 copies to find one without surface noise. Maybe the pink vinyl was too soft? Don't know. Usually colored vinyl is good as it is usually virgin vinyl. I have a black copy of under the pink and the pressing is not nearly as well done as the pink versions. |
Inna I'll have to check Oregon out. Not familiar to me. Wondering why you choose some that you say were not good recordings but use them as references. Seems an odd choice. As to brass, I have no jazz music in my collection. I have a lot of orchestra, a couple Canadian brass D2D that are really good and Fresh Aire uses a fair amount of brass as well. |
dmuso I have many of what you list. I also have some very old RCA recordings that are pretty good. Van Cliburn and V Horowitz piano stuff. They can be surprisingly good right back into the 50's. I have a couple that are still sealed too. Kind of fun, don't know whether to break them out or not. As to DSOTM, I don't care for it as much as Meddle or Wish You Were Here, which I have both on Island. I think I have at least 4 or 5 copies of DSOTM but I kind of burned out on it back in the old days. |
bdgregory Supertramp recordings are very good. I have several of them. Last night, I rolled in some old tubes that I'd never tried before, some Webcor 12AU7A's. They were OK, not great. I listened to Pat Benatar Tropico on Chrysalis. It is a damn fine recording with some really great dynamics. It's quite a demonstration of a beautiful voice, some very deep bass and some of the most dynamic drumming and percussion that you will hear on a pop album. |
Just a few but be sure to give tubes at least one hundred hours or so to burn-n and open up in order to appreciate the sq. Try Camille Saint-Saens Organ Symphony (wide frequency range including a 16 hz bass fundamental that only whales can hear but people can feel :) As mentioned previously Steely Dan-Aja-great musicians in a tight band Verdi-Requiem-allows your rig to show it ability to show it vocal chops from basso profondo to soprano along with transients from full orchestral passages. Miles Davis-Kind of Blue- trumpet,tenor sax,bass,drums-piano, transients travel the full range. One of the great assemblages of jazz musicians, Adderley, Chambers,Cobb,Coltrane,Evans and Kelly ever. Bruckner Symphony #4-Zibin Mehta conducting ((Romantic version II) Enjoy the music |
I generally avoid "audiophile" records for evaluation and set up. For arm/cartridge VTA, I use the time proven Dave Shreve favorite, flying fish HDS 701, Sauerkraut and Solar Energy track from this bluegrass album: https://www.discogs.com/release/8082236-Norman-Blake-2-Tut-Taylor-Sam-Bush-Butch-Robins-Vassar-Clements-David-Holland-Jethro-Burns-Norman-Bl It can sound thin and you’ll know pretty quickly if the high frequencies get dull, there’s an article here about how to do it: https://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/vta_method_e.html That track is also fun to listen to. One of my go-to records for getting an overall sense of a system is a bone stock original issue of Janis Ian’s Between the Lines. It has real strings, some tympani, natural sounding vocals and is generally a very well recorded album without sounding "juiced" (Breaking Silence, to me, while a great sounding album with profound bass, can mislead you). I have an "approval" pressing (not exactly a "test pressing" and not a promo of Between the Lines that was released), and the original pressings that were commercially released sound the same as this early pressing. Although it is good to use records you are familiar with as a reference, I also find that using a wide variety of different material helps to reveal shortcomings. My general preference is for acoustic instruments, recorded simply, without a lot of multi-tracking or post-production. That may not be what one normally listens to, so I guess using a range of material is useful for that as well. |
In my modest system I use MFSL - Supertramp Crime of the Century and Pink Floyd DSOTM, because I like that type of music. I also will use Chris Isaak material because of the way it’s recorded. I particularly like his cover of Orbison’s “ Only the Lonely “. To the OP, I believe your Webcor tubes are relabeled Mullards. Unfortunately I’m not a Mullard guy and to me they sound like someone threw a blanket over my system. I’m a fan of Tekefunkens and within them prefer the G73-R’s and then the Tektronix or other Medical grade. If you’re looking for something that’s totally opposite of your Webcors try the Silver plate Seimens. Also to comment on Al DeMiola, I sat front row at a small theater a few years back and I never was a big fan of progressive rock. However Al played an acoustic set and rotated between conventional and classical guitars and he was phenomenal ! But I lack the depth of intelligence to appreciate music that complex. FWIT he told stories between songs and said his friend Mike gave Chick Correa a demo tape he recorded and that’s what landed him with Chick. But the kicker was when Mike recorded him, he was loaded on Acid. Then he joked that the way to Carnegie Hall was not “ Practice, Practice, Practice “ , it was “ Acid, Acid, Acid”. Cheers to all and Happy Listening , Mike B. |
Di Meola's album that I mentioned is very very different. It was recorded in 1985, that's when I heard it for the first time. Mesmerizing and unusual non-trivial music. I don't like his fusion style and electric guitar work, with some exceptions. For his acoustic guitar performance try also Heart Of The Immigrants CD. A few compositions are excellent, well recorded for the time as well. |
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vetsc5 I'm pretty sure I have the Saint Saens in my organ collection. I probably have 100 or so pipe organ LP's. The Crystal Clear Virgil Fox recordings also reach 16hz. My speakers do 18 but I'm good with that. Pipe organ sounds pretty dang real to me. I'll have to hunt for the one you mention. I am fairly certain that I have it. I also have a group of Zubin Mehta but not sure if I have the one you spoke of. I always watched for him on LP's when I'd be hunting the bins at thrift shops. I used to find sealed 30 and 40 year old records for $2. I always checked the open ones and if they looked like they had been played or abused, put em back. It would take me awhile but was usually worth the effort. |
inna I still find it interesting that you evaluate new gear using what you consider to be poor recordings. In some ways, I think a nice system reveals even more of it's flaws but maybe we just have different ways of looking at it. I know that you use good recordings as well, just find it "unusual" that you also evaluate with poor ones. I have no idea what DiMeola albums we listened to. It was a long time ago. One was vinyl, one was Cd. I just found it somewhat interesting, not so much that I went out and bought it. My best buddy and main listening partner (other than my wife), was a jazz enthusiast. He passed away a couple years ago. He was kind of a Dahlquist nut, had several pair, used a CJ preamp and main cartridge was Grace F9E Ruby. He never did get into MC's but the F9E Ruby was no slouch. Anyway, off topic. Sorry. |
A long time ago it was direct-2-disk LP’s (Sheffield Labs, etc.). Then it was the Water Lily Record label LP’s (A Meeting By The River, an album of duet improvisations between Ry Cooder and Vishwa Mohan Bhatt). Cat Stevens Tea For The Tillerman LP (first the original pink label UK Island pressing, now the Analogue Productions version). Talking Book by Stevie Wonder, and If You Could Read My Mind by Gordon Lightfoot. And the Dan Hicks And His Hot Licks album Striking It Rich. Produced by Tommy LiPuma, strings arranged by Nick DeCaro, engineered by Bruce Botnick. MaryAnn Price’s singing of "I’m An Old Cowhand" is absolutely salacious! Holst The Planets, with Sir Adrian Boult conducting The New Philharmonia Orchestra With Chorus (EMI ASD 2301). Trevor Pinnock playing Scarlatti’s Sonatas For Harpsichord (CRD 1068, UK). Anything on Lyrita Records, and Harmonia Mundi (USA and France).
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billpete, Yes, I use a combination of poor and good recordings. Most of what I listen to was not recorded well, but I want it to sound as good as possible. Also, specifically in my case, electric guitar must sound right or close to it, especially earlier John McLaughlin's electric guitar. Not to mention his acoustic guitar, of course. |
You can do both. Experiencing remastered content, and how learning engines of streaming works, and discovering more of the types of music you enjoy now, opens so many more doors of listening enjoyment. Ask those same diehards if they quit streaming and went back to vinyl & CDs only. I’d venture to guess it’s a small percentage - if any. Quality streaming can be a game changer for those who try it and embrace it fully. Enjoy.
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Lots of great comments. Thanks to all. I have some things to look for, in my collection and beyond and then the whole topic of streaming keeps coming up. I'll get to it someday.........if I live long enough. For now, I'm just admiring a "new to me" turntable. I finally picked up a Linn LP12 after 50 years of wishing I had one. I was not disappointed. Sounded really nice and still making other improvements in my system can only make it better. I went to a VPI 20 plus years ago and kind of forgot about Linns for awhile. I'm glad I never completely gave up on the idea. Anyway, this is supposed to be about vinyl so I'll leave it with what I tested the new toy with. Fresh Aire I, Fresh Aire III and Alan Parsons I Robot. Some happy listening. Most enjoyable. |
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