What song best sums up the previous year?

Papertrail, the older I get the more I realize how true that verse is, and all ther others.

Rob, Thanks. I think I thought of that, but I could stand to be corrected. Usually my best ideas were thought of by somebody before me anyway. As the good book says, "there's nothing new under the sun".

Third try... Randy Newman's 'Political Science' and Kingston Trio's 'Merry Minuet'. Interesting that I can't get posted but others can make what are, arguably, very provocative comments.

Satch,

I had to go through the same thing (minus the legal part) at the beginning of last year. I'm glad 2005 is over. Someone else can have it.

Hang in there - it gets much better (you know but it's good to hear anyway) - it just seems to take forever sometimes.

Take care!

Best Post so far on this thread:

"01-23-06: Papertrail
If we all knew half as much as we think we do, we would all be twice as smart as we really are. Present company included. One thing I have learned---the longer I live the less I am sure about what I do know."

A good cheap lawyer is an oxymoron.

My apologies as I'm not sure this is in the same context of Nrchy`s question. But for me being a relative newcomer to Lucinda Williams music Id purchased her latest CD "Live at Fillmore" in or around September '05'and hearing many of the towns and locations in her music at the same time hurricane Katrina slammed into the Louisiana coastline bordered on the surreal, really kinda odd in a strange sort of way- albeit great music all the same.But I guess for me personally this disc will always bring back that memory of those unfortunate enough to be caught in Katrina's path.Nice thread;Regards-Tim W.

Thanx guys, just the usual relational stuff and everything that you have to go through after a breakup. But if anyone knows a good cheap lawyer.... :)

Satch; This year is new yet. Here's hoping your situation improves:)

Satch, sorry to hear about your experience! I wish there were something I could do to help. Is there anything that we/I can do?

I'll leave out the politics..... being from Europe I notice I have a rather different view on things than most. Let's just say things didn't work out on a personal level last year, and this year isn't any better, even worse. So I would say Fade to black by Metallica pretty much sums up my year.

"Don't cha" - Pussy cat dolls

Says it all.

:o)

Sorry Uppermidfi, there is nothing besides rumor which attributes that quote to him. Check out Evita's link as well.

"All this contains much that is obviously true, and much that is relevant; unfortunately, what is obviously true is not relevant, and what is relevant is not obviously true."

Churchill used that line when he was running as a conservative/tory for the house of Lords, after having previously run as a liberal.

According to Winston Churchil.org , he never said it at all.

If we all knew half as much as we think we do, we would all be twice as smart as we really are. Present company included. One thing I have learned---the longer I live the less I am sure about what I do know.

Churchill used that line when he was running as a conservative/tory for the house of Lords, after having previously run as a liberal.

I think I'm trying to say that we are up against an intractible enemy and also remind what Churchill said decades ago. Anyone who is not a liberal when young doesn't have a heart. But anyone who has not become conservative once fully grown up doesn't have a brain.

"If you are not liberal by the time you are 20 you have no heart. If you are not conservative by the time you are 40 you have no brain."

This quote has been attributed to Churchill many times, but no one is certain and it is not found in any of his writings. Just thought you would like to know that for future reference.

"Take the leaders of the land,
make them know, to undrstand.
Put them all into a cage,
and let them fight the wars they rage."

The Wailing Souls

Man, these founding Father's of ours were smart as hell. It appears that everything we are warned about is coming to pass. Read the Thomas Jefferson quotes on this thread as well. It's happening right under your right-winged noses.

"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." -Hermann Goering, NAZI Luftwaffa chief of staff, sentenced to death at Nuremburg warcrimes trials (committed suicide)

Also, "If Tyranny and Oppression come to this Land, it will be in the Guise of fighting a Foreign Enemy" James Madison

Unless you're over there nobody really knows what the facts are. It's all a matter of choice and which newspaper or TV news coverage you subscribe to. I don't think any of them let us know what's truly going on, because they don't even know.

Thanks Tomryan for giving us a logical and accurate point of view. I guess the admin. doesn't like my arguments, so they won't allow my posts (which are pretty close to your point of view). I guess the truth does hurt the liberal point of view, so I can see why they don't want to accept it.

Peace!

Devo - Beautiful World

After 25 years, this song still says it all.

You should also try and view the original video.

Well Danlib, I guess we did liberate them in WWII. AS far as oppressive regimes we have supported the time frame is longer than the 60's and 70's as Tomryan puts it. How about the CIA's coup of Arbenz in Guatemala in the 1950's. This ended Guatemala's youn Democracy and lead into more Military rulers. Chile in the 70's with the coup to get Pinochet in. The Contras' anybody remember the Iran Contra Affair. As far as Saddam in the 80's we gave him the gas to battle the Iranians but saw no problem with him attacking the Kurds' either. Let us not forget that we also gave him the green light to go into Kuwait in the first place. I don't think the slap on the hand would work, though:). As far as Afghanistan goes, I think we started too late to REALLY find Osama, and I am sure you will never see him at a trial either. Who cares why Osama thinks that Iraq is important, or why Iran's current leader is a nut. Neither one of them has weapons of mass destruction. So Tomryan do any of those people hold any weight in your mind they don't in mine. Ever heard of Scott Ritter, an actual UN inspector who was in Iraq before the invasion. Ritter was going around the US trying to educate the people to the fact that Iraq had no weapons. Why not focus on a country who does, and admits that they are pointed at us: CHINA ;)-~

Rosstaman

Thanks for the posts! I could not have written my feeling any better.

on topic: "Monster" by Steppenwolf

I heard it when I was a teenager and it helped define my political views and still does.

Colitas writes: It is quite clear that the facts of history are missed on some of us more than others. How many Nations have adopted democratic systems because of our intervention? Does anybody know?

Well, I might know a few......France. Germany. Spain. Italy. Japan.

That's all I can think of in 10 seconds.

"And Rosstaman? Jessica Lynch was raped & assulted and on crutches 2 months after resuce. There, that make ya feel better?"

Cheap shot, tomryan.
I'm not attacking anyone for their viewpoint. I'm simply expressing my opinion on the Iraq War. It's still the American way to be able to have a political debate without name calling or cheap innuendos.

For what it's worth, I was 100% in support of the US and coalition forces going into Iraq to liberate Kuwait from Saddam and his army. I was 100% in support of going into Afganistan to capture or kill Bin Laden and end the Al-Qaeda training camps and the Taliban who allowed and supported them to exist.

I don't look at politics like a super bowl game, where one supports their team no matter what.

How about a variation of the Elton John song "Someone save my life tonight." Please save my life.

Well here we are 40 years to the day since John F Kennedy spoke the famous words "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

The question has long since been turned around to ask what Uncle Sam can do for me.

All the families of this country have suffered at the hand of the welfare mentality. The black family which was very strong and stable at the time is now in shambles with 70% of their children born out of wedlock. This is the result of the welfare state the democratic party has instituted. This is not at all to point a finger at black America. They are victims of horrible policy made by 'rich white folks!'

If the Democratic party would come back to where it was in 1964 then moderates would be able to support it, but the right has moved to the left and the left has fallen to the radicals. If you don't believe me, read the writings of JFK and listen to the speeches. He was more conservative than modern republicans.

Weapons of mass distruction have been found many times in Iraq, but even if the enriched uranium and 20,000 lbs of serin gas had not been found, Iraq broke the terms of the peace treaty they signed with Sr.

"Oh by the way Congress, both Clinton's, most of America, and other countries also felt we needed to go into Iraq."

"If Iraq isn't important than why does Bin Laden want us out so bad? "

The information was based on this administration's analysis of their intelligence community findings. That analysis was presented to Congress and the UN. The UN and most of the world wanted the sanctions and inspections to continue. The UN weapons inspectors did not concur with the Bush administration's analysis. AND let us not forget the Downing Street memo, and Bush’s former treasury secretary Paul O’Neill who revealed that the President took office in January 2001 fully intending to invade Iraq and desperate to find an excuse for pre-emptive war against Saddam Hussein.

As far as Bin Laden, he should be found and be tried as the murderer he is, but not at the expense of US casualties and the Iraqi people who had nothing to do with Bin Laden or 9/11.

Here is a partial list of people who also thought and insisted publicly that Saddam had WMDs and also engaged in or recommended military action:

Bill Clinton
Hillary Clinton
Al Gore
Madelyn Albright
John Kerry

Again, if Iraq is not a part of the terrorist network, why are they fighting so hard to take control of it? And nobody on this thread said the Nazis were noble. Come on, people, these things can't be that complex that even slightly subtle and contexual discussions confuse you?

Oh yeah, good old Fallujah. We sat on our asses for 6 months while the enemy took over the city, fortified, armed, resupplied with weapons and even fake uniforms, before we did anything. And we didn't do anything until giving the civilians 4 weeks to leave. The Taliban had taken over and were turning it into little Afganistan. And when we did go in we fought so softly that if we'd done it that way in WWII we'd still be fighting in North Africa.

And Rosstaman? Jessica Lynch was raped & assulted and on crutches 2 months after resuce. There, that make ya feel better?

The line between our current government and a Fortune 500 Company has become indiscernable. My song of the year Edwin Starr's "WAR".

Rosstaman,

If only it was that simple Rosstaman. World politics is much more complex than your binary thinking.

I'm sure when he leaves office in a few years the world will magically become a better place.

Oh by the way Congress, both Clinton's, most of America, and other countries also felt we needed to go into Iraq.

If Iraq isn't important than why does Bin Laden want us out so bad?

Just a few questions that I hope makes it past the A'gon staff. They've blocked 2 of my posts and counting - I guess they only let posts they agree with through.

Rosstaman, thank you. Thats it in a nutshell, as Austin Powers would say..."help, I'm in a nut shell".

The Nazis were invading and overthrowing Europe. They killed and tortured millions of people. They performed experiemental operations on thousands of their victums, used the skin of jewish babies to make lampshades, and gassed innocent people, etc. etc. etc. How could anyone use the word noble in relation to the Nazis???

The Iraqis haven't done anything to us. Yes, Saddam did some saber rattling at the US. But we invaded their country, overthrew their government, occupy their country, and have killed thousands of innocent Iraqis, all under false WMD assumptions. We even used White Phosphourus as a chemical weapon in Fallujah, which not only hit the insurgents, but also many civilians. Can you imagine the outcry if the insurgents used White Phosphourus on our troops?

When Jessica Lynch was captured by the insurgents, Bush demanded that they adhere to the Geneva Convention in the treatment of prisoners of war. Yet, he thinks he is above the rules of war in the treatment of prisoners.

God bless our troops, and God help our government!

Hey Kana;

The last time I heard your joke about Jesus,disability, etc.,,it was told by a certain Senator from Arizona while reflecting on the recent pork barrel (corporate and farm welfare) bills passed last year by the (Republican) congress.

Oh, on the latest public rip-offs going on in Washington, for a song, how about the old standard,

"Tip-toe, through the tulips..."

Unclejeff-

Don't try and out-pork us Hawaiians, we have the
the princes of pork, the one armed bandit, Uncle Dan I.
and Uncle Brada Dan A. These old buggers just keep sucking it up....LOL

Hey Kana;

The last time I heard your joke about Jesus,disability, etc.,,it was told by a certain Senator from Arizona while reflecting on the recent pork barrel (corporate and farm welfare) bills passed last year by the (Republican) congress.

Oh, on the latest public rip-offs going on in Washington, for a song, how about the old standard,

"Tip-toe, through the tulips..."

Lies - Thompson Twins

Leonard Cohen - The Future

Context Howard. Context.

"...in comparison to the enemy we face now."

This was not calling Nazis noble. This is saying the people we are facing are worse than the Nazis, as hard as it is to imagine. Remember it was Muslim mullas who asked the Nazis to work harder to exterminate the Jews. That was 65 years ago. Also don't forget that 1-2 years ago a Saudi prince was visiting a Czech. Rebulic holocaust memorial and signed the guest book as follows (I'm paraphrasing as I heard the quote on TV and the radio maybe 3-4 times back then):

"Mr Hitler was a good man and did good things but he and the Germans failed in efficiency to complete their work. This is their failure and it is sad they were not more competent."

Let's see...we (including Jimmy Carter) helped keep a dictator in power in Iran 30 years ago. He was overthrown and now Iran is, and has been, much worse with far more repression and brutality. Actually, I was only talking about world domination attempts which we have stopped and replaced with decent forms of governments. We have, to our shame, been involved in supporting repressive regimes in order to gain material benefit, and this in various places throughout the world. Please, however, understand the different world we now admit living in and come out of the outdated, "old world" think-space of the 60s and 70s. If it'll make us all feel better we can stick out our right hand, smack it with the left, and say out loud, "Bad American! Bad American!"

By the way, I don't see us doing anything about Iran now either. Not after how much the admin. botched the Iraq thing. And all the hanky panky you talked about sure has made it hard to fight a good and well needed war.

Also by the way, anyone else hear that good 'ol infidel hating Osama is asking for a truce? I didn't get the whole story, may be someone else did.

The world needs more Thomas Jeffersons

Tom, we are in complete agreement there. No, not as the slave owner, but rather as the man who is willing to live by these words, the balance of which should inform any inquisitive American that his present government would make Thomas Jefferson sick.

The Nazis and Japanese of WWII were noble in comparison to the enemy we face now. At least the enemies of WWII fought as soldiers, who understood the rules of war - not terrorists, who know, no boundaries.

The Nazis were noble? Sure Paul, try and sell that line to a Jew. You can start with me. Please tell me you wrote that while having an aneurysm.

A Republican in a wheelchair entered a restaurant one afternoon and asked the
waitress for a cup of coffee. The Republican looked across the restaurant and asked,
"Is that Jesus sitting over there?" The waitress nodded "yes," so the Republican
requested that she give Jesus a cup of coffee, on him.

The next patron to come in was a Libertarian with a hunched back. He shuffled over
to a booth, painfully sat down, and asked the waitress for a cup of hot tea. He also
glanced across the restaurant and asked, "Is that Jesus over there?" The waitress
nodded, so the Libertarian asked her to give Jesus a cup of hot tea, "My treat."

The third patron to come into the restaurant was a Democrat on crutches. He hobbled
over to a booth, sat down and hollered, "Hey there, honey! How's about gettin' me a
cold glass of Miller Light?" He, too, looked across the restaurant and asked, "Is
that God's boy over there?" The waitress once more nodded, so the Democrat directed
her to give Jesus a cold glass of beer. "On my bill," he said.

As Jesus got up to leave, he passed by the Republican, touched him and said, "For
your kindness, you are healed."

The Republican felt the strength come back into his legs, got up, and danced a jig
out the door.

Jesus also passed by the Libertarian, touched him and said, "For your kindness, you
are healed." The Libertarian felt his back straightening up, and he raised his
hands, praised the Lord and did a series of back flips out the door.

Then Jesus walked towards the Democrat. The Democrat jumped up and yelled, "Don't
touch me... I'm collecting disability."

It is quite clear that the facts of history are missed on some of us more than others. How many Nations have adopted democratic systems because of our intervention? Does anybody know? I do know that the number of oppressive regimes we have supported outweighs it by a landslide. SO to use WWII as your straw man and say that we are the answer is quite naive. Sure I don't like terrorism, but where do we attack? At the root of the problem or the branch? Surely Iraq is not the root, I mean even Osama wouldn't work with Saddam(He didn't find his country a good example of an Islamic state).

Surely Tomryan you have heard of PNAC, haven't you? The plan is to invade Iran, or at least that was the goal. Afganistan was on the books before 9/11. Then Iraq, b/c as you put it "the weakest". Surely it was b/c of the bombing from the Clinton era, which nocked out most of the infra-strcture that we are now trying to rebuild. So, I don't see Iran happening any time soon. I do agree with you that the Iraqi people are finding it hard to adjust to a democratic system though. To quote an old Marine I still think "War is a Racket"

Tomryan

I do indeed clearly remember those very words which you quoted from Osama. If one actually tries to visualize that senario, which Osama graciously laid out for us - I think smiles would disappear from everyone's face.

It is sad, that in 4 short years, we have forgotten the way it felt during the brightly lit days following 9/11/01. It would be wise for every American to understand we are facing a far more dangerous enemy than we've EVER faced before. The Nazis and Japanese of WWII were noble in comparison to the enemy we face now. At least the enemies of WWII fought as soldiers, who understood the rules of war - not terrorists, who know, no boundaries.

Hopefully we will all become guardians of our land, and keep a vigilant eye out for anything that appears out of the ordinary. Sadly, we can never really rest as easily as we once did. We are certainly living in un-certain times.
As you said Tom - "we are the solution". We all need to realize that, and accept it. As the saying goes...it's lonely at the top.

Thanks again Tom.

paul

Be well fellow Agoners - shoulder to shoulder.
btw - Lee Greenwood's - "Proud to be an American" :-)

Uppermidfi, The vagabond was you, and the person you are now took over the pants of the person you used to be before you became the person you are now. ;)

Breadman, I was wondering what happened to my pants.