When you start with a fallacy as your premise, you shouldn't be surprised at the questionable validity of your conclusion.
Which sounds better 2 way or 3 way speaker design
Seeking to purchase one of the following 3 speakers:
1. Proac K3-2 way design
2. Totem Element Metal V2-2 way design
3. Triangle Cello-3 way design
I am under the impression, (which I may be incorrect) that a three way design is superior to a 2 way design. All of the above speakers listed below retail for about $18,000 per pair. Am I correct to assume that a 3 way design will give the listener a much better chance to hear the full audio spectrum as opposed to a 2 way design?
Thank you.
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Over the last 2 years I’ve been on the Speaker Merry Go Round going through 11 sets of speakers… Yep 2ways, 3ways, and Maggi’s and opted for stand mounts with dual subs… YOU REALLY NEED TO HEAR THEM IN YOUR ROOM TO BE SURE… I can tell you the Triangles I tried had a very short life in my room. I have to say every speaker I tried had a great honeymoon period but once the crucial listen began, 10 of the 11 speakers were asked to leave. I ended up with Soundfield Audio MMW1’s, Custom designed for my room’s shortcomings and my listening tastes. I met the designer / owner of Soundfield (AJ) at the Florida Int’l Hi Fi Expo in Tampa and his room’s sound blew me away. It’s been nothing but sonic bliss since. There’s several Soundfield Youtube Videos on line, one where the Audiophile Junkie claims Soundfield Audio is the best small room option out there…check ‘em out. |
A great discussion. I’ve had so many speakers over the years from single element to 4-way in many different rooms including large towers and smaller bookshelves. I agree with the comments that stress design and execution including component and build quality. My old friend that was involved in speaker design and build always said there is no perfect speaker and that there were trade-offs in any design and build. I find a key is the room you are listening in and what sounds good to you at this time. I now listen in a relatively small room so small towers or 2-way bookshelves fill the room better without overpowering the space. In addition my old man ears don’t hear as high in range as I used to so sibilance is key as as such there are speakers I liked when I was younger that I wouldn’t listen to now. Trust your ears and what sounds good to you in your listening room. I haven’t had those 3 speakers but With an 18K budget you’ve got some great choices. |
One of my favorite basic design is a three-way, with a compression-driver/horn midrange covering a wide part of the range. The compression drivers I like are all vintage—from 1930’s to 1960’s. I own a system fitting that description—twin 12” woofers (modern), bullet tweeter (modern), western Electric 713b midrange compression drivers (1940’s), Western Electric KS 12025 multicellular horn. I mentioned two single driver speaker companies I like-Charney and Songer—above, and I would now like to give kudos to PureAudioProject which makes terrific open-baffle speakers, modt of them are two-way speakers. There are good speakers of all types.
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Ime loudspeaker design is a fascinating competition of ideas, every one of which is a juggling of tradeoffs (and anyone who tells you otherwise is in marketing). The implementation of those ideas can take very different forms: Single driver, two-way, three-way, four-way, planars, horns, multidirectionals, omnis... And even among speakers which are outwardly similar, the designers are constrained to giving some attributes higher priority than others. In general the attributes which I prioritize are more likely to be found in a conventional three-way than in a conventional two-way, but my own designs tend to be unconventional two-ways with rear-firing tweeters, often augmented by subs... in which case I guess they are three-way systems? Duke |
Wrong - it’s the quality of the parts and implementation. Some crossovers are done extremely well they seem seamless. More crossovers “may” offer more opportunities to have a poor crossover, but it’s not automatic. As usual, best to demo yourself to hear what resonates with you. |
I’m partial to my 2.5-ways. They use a JBL 18", a JBL 9.7", and a modified Heil. (BTW, a Heil is equivalent to 8 square inches of tweeter surface.) And these do keep the midrange in the 9.7 going all the way up to ~3,500Hz before crossing over to the Heils. This maintains coherency, staging, and imaging. I really don’t fret about a wide dispersion as I always sit in the sweet spot, and a narrower dispersion results in less wall bounce for better staging and imaging. So lest someone think fewer ways means less cone area, think again. Some of the biggest speakers are 2-ways. |
Even if you are limiting this discussion to conventional cone drivers (e.g., not considering electrostatic or planar magnetic panel speakers, bending wave drivers like MBL speakers), there are great examples of one, teo, three, and more-way speakers. No speaker is perfect in all respects and each has different strengths and weaknesses and listeners have different tastes snd priorities such that a wide range of speakers can be favored. I like the one-way, single driver systems from Songer Audio and Charney Audio. I like MANY two-ways, some conventional driver systems from the likes of Audio Note (including their near six figure fieldcoil two-way AN-E speaker) ProAc, Harbeth, Fyne, etc., and MANY three ways, particularly three-way horns. I don’t think this particular design characteristic is determinative of sound quality. |
I agree with @knotscott - quality of the speaker design, parts and manufacturing matter most. But all things being equal (which is almost never true) I prefer a great 2-way design with CD horns to 3-way. I have owned a lot of great 3-way speakers and I can count on one hand the ones where I couldn't notice the effects of the xover. Some more, some less. |
All of these are floorstanders with double woofers, resulting in total surface area approximating a 9-10" woofer. If you're content with their bass output, just go with the one whose sound you prefer. If you're likely to get a sub or two, you might find a standmount a more attractive fit. This gives you a more versatile arrangement, at the cost of potentially adding significant setup complication. |
Agree with @yogiboy, @bache, et al. The question is ill-posed. It's not as if you get a better result if you buy a speaker with more drivers in it! There are always compromises, and crossovers are one such compromise that gets multiplied with additional designated drivers. If, as the OP proposes in his question, "a 3 way design will give the listener a much better chance to hear the full audio spectrum as opposed to a 2 way design," then Maggies would be out of contention, just for example. So would MBLs, which are two-way only because it's so hard to move lots of air with that magical "Radialstrahler" element. Let your ears be the judge! |
@bache +2 It’s all about the design. Some prefer a one way speaker!
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@bache +1 Mike |
3 is larger than 2. (until our mighty leaders will change the rules ,at least) So why would a 3 way not be better? Why would they bother with 3 way? I think in small spaces you may not benefit from 3-way design, but overall, sure, 3 way should be better, when it's not a cheap 3 way vs a quality 2 way.. I don't know what you mean by full audio spectrum? I would go with the Totem from these three, based on the data. Not that I know anything about speakers in 18K price range |
I have no knowledge of the three speakers in question. Whether a 2 or 3 (or 2.5 or other) way is best is dependent on the selected components, construction, and it’s implementation. There are fine speakers made in many "ways" and I don’t think that the actual number of drivers is the important factor in deciding which to choose.
In general, I would think that a floor standing speaker would offer more cabinet volume and this would typically allow for a deeper, more generous bass. But of course there are exceptions to everything. |
I prefer 2 way stand-mounts with specific OE stands that are designed for use with the specific 2 way transducer. I have 2.5 way floor standers and they sound nice bust not as clear, detailed or have the depth or breadth of my 2 ways. Now there are many variables that play into this also, room size, room treatments and so forth.
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@toddalin , I always am interested in your perspective. After reading your above post, how would you answer the OP's question? Also, if one was going to go with a two way speaker, is there a sonic advantage in a two way that is built into its own floor standing cabinet versus a two way that is intended to be placed on a speaker stand? |
It depends on the design. There are pros and cons with each, but there are a lot of outstanding 2-way speakers. They're simpler and can typically offer higher quality parts because there’s simply fewer of them to buy. Because of they can be built for less, many are indeed marketed to the more affordable price ranges, but a TOTL 2-way can still be amazing, depending on the recipe used. With that said, there are a lot of great sounding 3-way + speakers out there too. Keep an open mind, buy what you like, and what works in your room on your system, and you won’t go wrong. |
I agree with freediver "IMO the 3 way floor standing speakers I’ve owned have all sounded more coherent,with better bass & superior mid range performance thanks to the dedicated mid driver". about better mid, but keep in mind the typical larger woofer which does what the IRON LAW says must be done for bass: move more air! I want to add, the 3 models you mentioned are all limited by the too common 6-1/2" driver, used alone or in multiples, long throw versions designed to MMA. Larger magnets not only move the cone, they do a better job stopping/controlling the cone. I encourage you to look for 3 way designs with larger woofers, keep an eye on higher efficiency/sensitivity, avoid too low impedance dips or designs, consider horn tweeter horn mid, ports, none, or, if any, front facing, optional port plug is good, especially if rear port. |
Conventional wisdom(re:audiophiles)says that a 3 way will be heavily compromised compared to a 2 way because of increased cabinet size & component count..They say the same thing about all in one electronics vs separates as well..I just DO NOT hear it that way.. |
