Why exotic stylus not used on MM?

There are several MM carts with exotic stylus profiles. 

Yes, there have been many MM carts with special stylii. The Micro Acoustics 530MP was a great cartridge in its day.

Dear @meteu  : No, it was not for that. Seems to me that you really don't have an acceptable knowledge level in the overall cartridge issue.

You can browse through google Audio Technica, Nagaoka, Goldring, Ortofon, Sound Smith, Clearaudio etc, etc and look to the top carrtridge MM/MI in its line and you will learn on that subject.

Only as an example the Goldring 1042 use the Gyger S stylus that's the same stype that uses Allaerts MC cartridges that set you back over 10K dollars and similar in VDH MC models too. Yes, the MC ones asks for tigther tolerances/polished in their orders to the stylus supliers and these means higher prices too.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

Let me explain
Of course there are exceptions
The top mm of the Ortofon is a shibata stylus
Nagaoka's Fine Line
Audio-Technica's Fine line
Exotic stylus micro line in third place in AT
(while expected to be in first place)
Micro line, micro ridge, fritz gyger, etc.. They are both absent and they are not at the top as expected

seems like there is a definition issue on 'exotic'

İmho

Old conic an elliptyc

Then Fine line and last shibata

and then exotics are

Micro line, micro ridge, fritz gyger, SAS, ortofon replicant 100, etc.. 

ATN140C stylus is exotic. and ATC140 is the sleeper MM cartridge 

I'm no expert but the design of the cantilever of a MM verses a MC might incur some design differences of the stylus...or it's just a marketing ploy. Not sure which. 

I’m listening right now to my B&O MMC1 with its hollow tube sapphire cantilever and press-fitted OCL stylus. Based on a moving iron principle. Is that exotic enough? Find me a modern MC with such a cantilever and press fit..

it’s divine sounding as well.

What are you doing?

You talkin to me?

@lewm 

. +1

wanna buy another one?

If you've got an NOS MMC1, contact me.

You will find EVERY tip profile on MM/MI cartridges that you find on MC.  No exceptions. Same for exotic cantilever materials.
 

The OP here isn’t very familiar with tip geometries and cartridges.  

Sumiko Amethyst is a Line-Contact design and MM.  You can also get AT VM95ML and AT VM95SH with MicroLine and Shibata styli, respectively.

Lots of choices for styli in the MM range.

@lewm  If you're looking for an mmc1 contact SoundSmith. I know they rebuild them and may even make new ones.

MMC cartridges are awfully old by now. Their suspensions are known for getting stiff over time.

Are you having them rebuilt?

Soundsmith's SMMC1 has a line contact diamond on a solid ruby rod cantilever. Is that too pedestrian or is the Sapphire tube that much better?

There are not any Exotic Styli on offer at present, especially as outlined in the list above.

These are no longer mysteriously unique or unusual, most who concern themselves with them will be able to recite the unique dimension for each type, whether it is an artificial grown raw material, as well as where to acquire one or all listed.

One Styli that is possibly closer to the used Terminology 'Exotic' is the Swiss Produced 'Black Diamond'. The part has certainly being assessed for being a suitable replacement part for the above listed Styli.

It is early days yet for this part, so it will be interesting to see how differing dimensions and refinements are produced for the part .   

OP’s definition of exotic is indefensible. By any rational definition, Replikant, Gyger, SAS, and Microline, Micro Ridge and Shibata all quality as exotic.  Not exotic…all variations of conical and elliptical. Plenty of exotic styli have been made for MM and MI generators. From yesteryear there was Stereohedron by Pickering.  The ADC ZLM used an exotic profile. I run a Shure V15 Type V with an SAS stylus by Jico on my Well Tempered TT/TA.  With carefully adjusted VTA it traces everything. 

Can't add anything to Raul's post. I have two of these cartridges now. The Soundsmith Voice and the Clearaudio Charisma which uses the stylus/cantilever assembly of the $16K Goldfinger. 

I have a rega rb300 arm on a michell gyrodec. I have analog devices op amps used ss phono stage and pre amplifier. 
I was using Ortofon kontrapunkt b then I put a black
My expectation was that kontrapunkt b would be better
Kontrapunkt b has better bass, tonal balance is in the mid-low than black
Black is vivid, real, airy, tonal balance mid-high than b
Overall, there was a big difference in the sound in favor of black.
My choice was black without hesitation because of it's there feel.
That got me thinking a bit about the overall mm-mc difference
That's why I felt compelled to ask this question.

'Exotic' has been the go to enticement in the commercial world of HiFi for a very long time, it runs parallel with esoteric, in relation to suggesting there is an exclusivity in being enabled to experience the commercially offered item.

It sure does help with justifying parting with ones funds, and such unobtainable, fantastical, attachments to a product, does justifiably make the Bank Account feel a little emptier and unrecoverable when the unobtainable has been paid for.    

The fact that in relation to Styli, these parts being discussed underwent an extra set of control parameters to achieve their form in an earlier era of marketing, in todays market, there are multiple reserves stockpiled and readily produced, does somewhat seem to have an impact which changes the marketing spiel attached to such parts from an earlier period.

Such parts are no longer restricted to be acquired in any manner, and these can be acquired with relative ease when sought out. 

Most individuals, if so wished, can be putting them to use across a broad selection of owned products, this in itself takes away the allure of the 'Exotic' and the term 'commonly available' will be a more suitable term in the modern market. 

I am not going to stand in the way of anybody that wants to carry on with the allure of a marketing spiel and maintain the term 'Exotic' for what is now a very commonly available part.    

I’d rather watch an exotic dancer than an esoteric dancer. SoundSmith SMMC cartridges are a very pale imitation of the B&O original, and if you think the originals have aged into mediocrity, send them all to me.

For one thing, SS and probably no one else can source the tubular sapphire cantilever with press-fitted stylus that characterizes the B&O version. SS uses a solid sapphire rod of different quality and the stylus is glued on.

meteu

"I have a rega rb300 arm"

You can make a significant improvement to your system by upgrading your tonearm. Move further up the Rega line, or get an Audiomods or Origin Live that is a drop in replacement

Above, should have written “neither SS nor anyone else…”

Exotic Dance - Esoteric Dance - Ecstatic Dance, all methods of expressing oneself, outside of the mainstream commonly participated in forms of dance.

Interestingly all three can overlap into each other, as the disciplines do not restrict a unique expression for the dancer.

In other words the disciplines that are set to create a recognised dance from the mainstream are not needed when abandonment of a controlled expression is the fundamental.

Abandonment of readily available Technologies, and showing a preference for an 'obsolete technology' is not necessarily being a user of a item that has been deemed 'Exotic', it is the advertising spiel that was made about the item that grants this status, iit is also possibly mis-used by individuals who extend the use of the term for other items not labeled with the term in the sales spiel.

It would seem to myself and generally, that such individuals adopting this term, for very clear reasons, need to give their choices being made more relevance and seemingly have an ulterior  importance.

Narrowing it down to Cartridges, there are products on offer today that have Modern Technologies applied that are used in a very limited method, with materials that are not widely chosen.

I am yet to see these types of products be presented in a modern day Sales Brochure as being 'Exotic'. Maybe such a term has had its day and is only hung onto by a certain few, who needed it in another era, to make their choices convincing for them.

For the record, I have heard some of the Styli in the list above, I have not knowingly owned any of the listed on a Cartridge used by myself, but I have used Styli supplied from some of the Brands in the list.

At present it feels I do not need to make a choice to change to an alternative Styli, to achieve a level of replay that can impress more than the one I have in use at present. To achieve this, I would feel the Cart' being used,  would need to be a improvement in the entirety of the assembly of all parts selected.     

It was a joke, Pindac. Humor, not semantics.

My audio technica mm has a micro line. 

Knowledge levels/ignorance levels is the " name of the game " in any " audiophile ".

R.

Enthusiasm for Musical Encounters, is the another perspective to the              'name of the game' in any 'audiophile'.

It certainly is a fundamental with importance to receive the label.

The use of a keyboard to participate in a forum, is not being an 'audiophile'.

It can be a place for an individual, who has an enthusiasm for musical encounters, to express many similar, but usually very undesirable content, in a large volume of contributions being made, especially when there is absolutely no association of the content to the Thread.    

I think it’s clear by now that the root premise of the OP is false; no need to beat a dead horse any further.

01-31-2022 12:45am

I have a rega rb300 arm on a michell gyrodec. I have analog devices op amps used ss phono stage and pre amplifier. 
I was using Ortofon kontrapunkt b then I put a black
My expectation was that kontrapunkt b would be better
Kontrapunkt b has better bass, tonal balance is in the mid-low than black
Black is vivid, real, airy, tonal balance mid-high than b
Overall, there was a big difference in the sound in favor of black.
My choice was black without hesitation because of it's there feel.
That got me thinking a bit about the overall mm-mc difference

If you are talking about the 2M Black, then I agree. 

I have owned the Ortofon Jubilee (x2), Cadenza Black and A90 - the 2M Black can't compete with those on delicacy, detail, soundstaging etc, but it is no slouch either and the tonal balance and presentation may be preferable. 

You should try the LVB 250 stylus for the 2M Black. The boron cantilever with the Shibata stylus provides many of the MC qualities but retains the essential balance of the 2M Black.

tobes thank for answer

Ortofon Jubilee (x2), Cadenza Black and A90 - the 2M Black can't compete with those on delicacy, detail, soundstaging etc''

İ thought the same about kontrapunkt b.

' 'You should try the LVB 250 stylus' ' İ agree. 

Dear @tobes  : " You should try the LVB 250 stylus for the 2M Black. "

Well I think that you know that both 2M models has the same stylus shape and the difference in quality performance sound is just for the difference in cantilever. But that you already now.

R.

the difference in quality performance sound is just for the difference in cantilever. But that you already now

Yes of course.

The Ortofon Shibata is a beautiful example of that stylus type and the boron cantilever is its natural partner IMO (having owned the Jubilee and Cadenza Black).

My point was that if @meteu finds the stock 2M Black preferable in some ways to the Kontrapunkt b, then the LVB will provide a similar balance but with more the objective qualities (detail, finesse, soundstaging etc) of the Ortofon MCs. Win/win.