Your thoughts on my quest for new speakers

many many good speakers out there

like many great chefs and restaurants

challenge is to pick the one that pleases you, get it really right in the room, and fed and driven right with upstream gear... fun/challenging part is that it is an iterative process, experience and dedication to the pursuit really helps achieve the goal

The h160 has pretty good power, but my h360 didn't have the power to drive some of the big names. Keep watching used prices on this site and usam and try not to spend more than you can resell a product for. Let the home demo's begin and have fun.

Had the pleasure of auditioning two floor standing speakers recently…
A pair of Magico A3’s and a pair of QLN Prestige 5’s.To my surprise, for I had heard nothing about them, I preferred the QLN Prestige 5 speakers.  

Or you on the long wall so short wall.  I like speakers that have a large image and decent bass. Speakers that are direction like ribbons and planner speakers can sound great but I can’t always sit in the sweet spot so direction speakers or out, I’ve had them. A speaker cabinet should not be resonant, put out it’s own sound. Put your ear on the cabinet while playing, it should be quite. I like tweeters that are dome soft are metal but metal tweeters can be tiring over listing time.  There are a lot of very good speakers brand and models. I like speakers that can hit 30hz for low frequency  that excludes many speaker. So you really need great woofer that 8” but don’t be fooled by the size as many 10” speaker cannot get to 30Hz.  I normally don’t care for two speakers, except in your office. So decide what maximum you want to spend there are good speakers all over the price spectrum.

cheers

I am curious about the room painting idea. I think that sheen of the paint (lower the better) would have the most affect. Shiny paint will be the worst .Sherwin Williams make an acoustical paint designed for auditoriums. I once painted a studio and they used dead flat black.

I'm intrigued by Spatial audio speakers. well within your budget. Ron at New Record Day is high on them. With I could use them in my room. 

I'd give the dynaudio heritage specials a day in court! Along with some Harbeths!

To the OP, "Did you ever get to listen to the Treos?" I might have missed it. I have an order in for Tekton Design Double Impact SE but the wait is 2 months. I did hear the Treos once and they have a great sound over the 2CE Sig IIs that I own now. If I had that budget (10K) I would look hard at the Magnepan 3.7i. That is if you have very powerful amp(s). If I was looking at speakers with lower watt amps, check out Volti Audio.

I had, in a long line,  Magnepan 3.7s then I heard and bought Robert Bastani open baffles followed by what I think are my last ever speakers,  Pure Audio Project quintet 15s.  These are exceptional by any set of criteria if your room is big enough and yours is.  Try and hear them.  They are just amazing. 

Make sure you take music with you.  If you rely on streaming, you depend on the streamer to make a speaker decision.  Also, keep in mind that when you play an LP, you have a lot of setup parameters that affect the sound.  CD players vary in sound as well, so you are buying the setup abilities of the dealer as well as the speakers.  For example, if you like the speaker but find it a bit forward sounding, say so openly with the dealer.  If their reaction is to show you a different speaker immediately, that may be a sign they don't know the setup.  For example, a simple minute change to toe-in could change the tonal balance to your ears.  Manufacturers are guilty of putting on any dealer that will order the speakers without understanding their abilities.   If a dealer has a brand for many years, there is a reason  I don't want to complicate your process more, but I do want to make a point that there are parts to this process beyond a quick listen in a showroom.  It is not uncommon for a dealer to play a few selections before yours.  That is to show you the recordings that sound really good on that setup.  Let them do that and notate the recording they use so you can stream them at home and relate them to your listening priorities.  Insist on hearing your selection, or you won't know the speaker that is right for you. 

If you get into a set of the Linkwitz LX521, you'll have your "forever" loudspeaker.  The LX521 isn't just a loudspeaker.  It's a whole system that is multi-amplified with active crossover.  Therefore it needs a lot of amp channels.  It's a whole system.  But if you get into it, you'll NEVER leave.  Ever.

If you go the DIY route, you can do it all for as little as $5000.  A lot depends on what you choose for amplification.  You can get the whole package fully built, with amplification, active crossover, for about $16,000.  Shipping extra.  They can even make them custom for you.

I'd go the DIY route, but that's me.  Building them yourself has you much more involved in the whole experience.  You almost never see them on the used market because...  they're a "forever" loudspeaker.

Of course you’re going to get 100 responses but with Mucho many years in better audio this one is pretty easy… Buy a really good speaker for accuracy and imaging like a Revel F206 or 208 ,you can find them slightly used for the incredible bargain price of $2500 to $4000 pr. Add a JL Audio sub or a REL sub , some thing in the range of a JL audio E-110 or comparable REL or better , and you have an incredible system for $5000

I started my audiophile life in the 1970s with a pair of Magneplanar Tympany 1Ds.  The astounded me with their ability to make the music sound live and real.  I have had more than one pianist think someone was in my house playing.  I stuck with them until this year when I bought. pair of Magneplanar MG3.6R s.  I installed a rebuilt Threshold 400A amp (Via Jon Soderstrom), a new CJ preamp and a Classe top of the line Cd player. I have anOracle TT with a Koetsu Black Cart.  Vintage stuff.    The Maggies are wonderful. If I wanted to really splurge, I would have gone for the top of the Maggie line.  But I am too old to invest $10K or more on speakers for weekend listening.  All this is by way of encouraging you to listen to the Maggies carefully.  I love their sound.

I really dig Tidal HiFi plus

Review of the Magnepan 20.7

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/magnepan-207-loudspeaker

I went to hear Treos some years back and left with Quatros. The integrated subs made all the difference. If you already have a sub that you want to continue to use then the Treos could work. As for having to replace rhe Hegel, yes, in time you'd probably need tk do that but I'm a form believer in building your system around the speakers. They have by far the greatest i.pact on the sound of your system. Pick rhe speakers that you like and then over the course if time change your electronics to "color" the speakers however you like. 

How did you decide to buy a Hagel 160 Amplifier?  

I am not sure upgrading your amplifier with those speakers would yield the result.  Some say upgrade the amplifier and some say upgrade the speakers.  Who is right on this?  I have the same dilemma.  I can't decide to buy a Luxman 509 or upgrade speakers.

The hegel is to weak for magnepan mg20

I'm with Carlsbad on the Tekton's, The Double impact monitors with an RSL sub are outstanding, the full sized Double Impacts would be a great fit for your room if you really want to rock the Casbah. Tekton's may attract some haters on this forum but they have an almost cult following and lot's of youtube reviews support my recommendation. They are true giant killers

@jcs01 Unless you like to listen to heavy metal or classic rock at high listening levels, you owe to yourself to purchase Maggie's as they sound different than box speakers.  A few years back I purchased a pair of 20.7's after auditioning the 3.7i and 20.7. I thought that I might not need a sub with the 20.7's but ultimately gave in and purchased a sub. If I had to do it over I'd save some $$ and get the 3.7i's coupled with a single REL sub to see if was enough bass for my room and add another REL sub if needed. Your Rhtymik sub is a great match with Maggie's.

The best features of Maggie's is they sound the same from the bottom to the top of the panel and for music with well recorded vocals, piano and acoustic guitar, Maggie's are hard to beat.  Even if they're not your forever speaker, they're easy to sell on the pre-owned market.

Forget about Tidal HiFi and get Qobuz.  Ditch the Bluesound Node - it's a low-fi component. 

I have the same Linn Malik 140’s and a rhthmik 15” sub with also the majik center channel and katan surrounds.  If you take your system aktiv (I have linn amps with aktiv cards) and add room correction ( I use dirac) you won’t need new speakers!  I have found room correction is the most important element and active the second.  If you want to simplify look at active speakers that incorporate room correction like kii.

I am surprised that you spent few hours with John and he did not introduce you to Proac. Many years ago I compared the ProAc D38 with the B&W 804 D2 ( or may be it was D3) and chose the D38. B&W sounded dry and thin and analytical to me. I am not sure how the D4 sound but At least you should listen to the D30RS and the D48R and let your ears decide

The speaker-room interface is the single most important factor in putting together an audio system. Once you find the speakers that drive your room, you then find an amp to drive the speakers, and work back from there. Don't ask other audiophiles what speakers to buy: they don't have your listening room. Beg, borrow or steal different speakers and try them in your room. You'll know when you've found the right ones, and they might not be the ones you expected to like. I discovered this many years ago when I fell in love with a pair of large expensive 3-way systems I heard in an audio "salon". They sounded awful in my room no matter wherever I placed them. I lost a lot of money and time borrowing everything I could get my hands on until I found speakers that worked in my room better and were cheaper than the first pair. 

Type of music you listen to primarily and how flexible are you with the speaker position?

Tekton speakers may be the best price/performance.  But they’re rather large and visually unique.

GoldenEar Tritons also offers a good price/performance.  

Moving up to the Monitor Audio PL200 and PL300 are better performing.  Also great value at their price point.  

Also, moving up to a Hegel H360 or H390 is a significant sonic upgrade to your H160.

I agree with @russbutton. I built the LX521.4 and never need to go speaker shopping again. The question of "which speaker do I want to try next?" is over for me....regardless of price.

All great recommendations for sure, and I have three recommendations:

Tannoy Cheviot

Spatial Audio X3 

While I haven't heard them myself, but audiophile pal in Italy recently upgraded to the Cube Audio Nenuphar speakers and struggles catching his breath describing how fantastically realistic they sound and from the reviews I read about their performance, I think it is one speaker designer that has really advanced the technology of loudspeaker.  There lots of thread on AG that will enlighten you about these speakers.  Still, for me, as much as I love Tannoy's, once you experience OB speakers like the X3's, it might well be the end game of speaker upgrades. 

I am in the market for my last set of speakers as I'm retiring soon and will not have the same discretionary income as I do now.  That said, I too have been looking.  The Maggie 3.7i's you mentioned I have auditioned and indeed, they are terrific, especially in the treble.  If I hadn't already invested in a number of low-powered amplifiers which I really love, that would be my final set of speakers.  I'm now looking at the latest iteration of Living-Voice OBX-RW4 speakers to replace my original Living-Voice OBX-RW's as I really do love the sound, the Charney-Audio MaestroX, and the Fleetwood Deville's all of which are pretty efficient for my low-power amplifiers.  I haven't made up my mind yet however I'm leaning towards the Fleetwood Deville's...  You should at least audition the Deville's if you can.  I will be doing that soon.  

my 2 cents -- maggie 3.7i’s are worth getting the right amp for... just sayin’... 😉

Joesph Audio

You might consider KIT speakers.  If you don't want to build the box yourself, there are people who would build them for you of course for a price.  Budget of $10K could get you anything you desire from Madisound, Meniscus, etc... You will probably not spend half of that.

I almost clicked BUY on the Buchardt S400 MKII, but then started to think - these SB Acoustic drivers are quite popular - i wonder if there are KIT speakers with the same drivers?  What i discovered was that many of the kits are using SATORI drivers, same family as SB but higher end like Lexus/Toyota.  The kit i am focusing in on right now the HELIOS uses tweeters that are $500 EACH.  So to stop rambling, I am saying that per dollar spent you can not do any better than a kit.  Of course there is some risk as to not being able to hear it first...   :)  Good Luck.

...for those who dismiss the KIT idea with no second thoughts let me illustrate something i learned by going through the parts catalogs:

if you want to replicate a BUCHARDT S400 MKII yourself you will spend $71 for each woofer, $200 for each tweeter, $36 for each passive radiator.

If you want to build a HELIOS KIT (same configuration as S400MKII but better parts) you will spend $237 for each woofer, $495 for each tweeter, $111 for each passive radiator.

BUT YOUR TOTAL COST FOR THE HELIOS IS NOT ANY MORE THAN BUYING AN S400MKII from Buchardt.  Thats a lot of money being saved and much better components.

Kit speakers are fine until you try to sell them. People are skeptical 

too bad the Manger speakers are so difficult to audition in the US

superb sonic performance, perfect size and weight to manage and situate

truly a different technology that checks all the boxes  

@fredcdobbs you are 100% correct about resale value of kit speakers.  I don't know anything about how to flip equipment without losing money.  

I forgot to mention above:. CSS Audio and GR Research, a couple more fine sources for kits.  

Some responses above have mentioned room treatments whether physical or digital (Dirac).  Also, many reviewers online are praising it endlessly.  Definitely something to think about if you are getting new electronics.  I believe Buchardt actually offers POWERED speakers with Dirac (or similar) included.

I think that you could consider active speakers. Over dinner one evening Ivor Tiefenbrun of Linn told me that the only guys in north America that got it are using active designs. Over years of experimentaion, I think he is correct. In fact, I believe that the best Linn speaker is active. Get the very best front end that you can afford, insure that the internal amplifiers are analog and off you go. Musical bliss.

That's my two cents worth. Good luck on your journey!

With a good budget you can now get speakers that go low in the bass.  With better extension, your sub crossover can be set lower and the sub can focus on the lowest frequencies.  If your mains go low enough you might not even need the sub. 

Magnepan 20.7s In this situation placing the tweeters outboard.

The Gershman Acoustic Avant Garde’s are outrageously good speakers in the price range you mentioned

I would not say my Grand Avant Garde is outrageously good, but it is darn good! Your room is not that big and if you prefer smaller and lighter speakers that you can move around by yourself, Gershman may worth a look. The downside may be that it will need a high quality amp with at least 100WPC to sound big and full.

Well my quest is over! After several weeks of auditioning different speakers, I have made my decision - and I am very happy with it. I listened to speakers from Vandersteen, Harbeth, Totem, Fleetwood, Boenicke, Magico, Amphion, Klipsch, Nola, QLN and Magnepan. I listened to models within my price target and some way above it. Many sounded good, but just did not sound like an upgrade from my Linn Majik 140s (even the very expensive ones). Then I heard a pair of Gershman Grand Studios and it was love at first note (or maybe third). I could not believe how perfect they sound (to me). Very clear and transparent, with absolutely no harshness or edge to them. Great low end with fantastic accuracy. I think I could listen to them for hours with no fatigue at all. When listening to "Summer Time" from the "Ella and Louis" album I was completely engaged with Ella’s voice and then when Louis Armstrong’s trumpet came in I was just stunned at how realistic and present it sounded. I spent hours in the store just enjoying all my favorite tracks.

Thinking it might be the amp or room acoustics that were responsible I asked the salesman to move them to a different room and amp just to be sure. Thankfully he was able to haul the 80lbs speakers upstairs to a different room. Fortunately they sounded equally fantastic.

Despite my endless research on-line, I had never heard of Gershman Audio, so I guess it was a benefit that I had no pre-conceived ideas about their sound. The salesman offered a new set from the manufacturer or the ones I was listening to. I told him I want the ones in front of me - did not want to take any chances.

So thanks to everyone for their input. I am convinced these are the right speakers for me.

UPDATE:  I just noticed the post before this one recommended the Gershman Grand Avante.  I had not seen that post until after writing this post - certainly a coincidence.

Gershman = good stuff!   Nice choice!

Enjoy the music with your new Gershman.

This is the first ever the case that somebody went for something close to what I suggested, even though it was a pure coincidence. 🤣

Ihcho, I give you full credit for the choice 😉.  Let this be the first day of your role as an audiophile influencer.  

10K, Hegel has preamp out bypass.  Or ATC 40A 15K.

Great choice!  i have seen reviews of Gershman.  They are a unique company, made in Canada.  I believe they have a recording studio adjacent to their manufacturing facility and often check back and forth to ensure the speakers are making music that sounds exactly like real performers!

Golden ear is fantastic and for the m oney even better.