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At This Time Can We Recreate Full Range Live Music In The Home?

I read on this web site some members claim they go to the symphony orchestra and are "convinced" their system reproduces the experience. I agree with vocals, light percussion, acoustic music, light jazz, the best systems come very close. My experience comes from being a semi professional drummer for 40+ years. I currently have acoustic and electronic drums in my home. I play in a huge open space with 20 foot cathedral ceilings. I think I can state that I know what live drums sound like. Can even the six figure systems reproduce the attack and decay of a 20 inch crash cymbal? I say "maybe" in the future but not now! What makes me laugh is we audiophiles myself included will spend many, many thousands of dollars trying to reproduce the sound of a $20 triangle or a $15 woodblock or a $10 shaker. Play the song Aja by Steely Dan. I can play on my system the drum solo by the great Steve Gadd at realistic volume levels-if you dare -but it is not the same as real drums!! I don’t know if I can’t convince people that are not musicians. Not putting non-musicians down. Quoting my dad, "You don’t have to be a horse to be a horse doctor." Another quote by John Lennon. Someone asked him what he was listening to. He responded, "Dripping water."  It would be interesting to know how many of the greatest producers/engineers are or are not musicians or vocalists.
Some statistics: Soft drums 105dB, hard drums up to 130dB, kick drum/timpani 106-111dB, ride cymbal 101dB, toms 110dB, ride bell 115dB, crash 113dB, snare 120dB, rimshot 125dB. I have a system that could produce 125dB, would I -NO WAY I value my #1 instrument -my ears. So the drums are playing at 125dB peaks, now add in the other 80+ members of the symphony orchestra-how loud now? I ask again, can we at this time reproduce accurately the power of a symphony orchestra in the home? For many of us this is the Holy Grail of being an audiophile - Keep Searching!
wweiss
60 responses Add your response
rh67
307 posts
 
Most home systems play as if your in the lobby of a venue getting the sound as if your in the same room as the players would not be good for your hearing if done daily.

Great equipment can give the illusion at lower volumes and this is what most audiophiles clamor for, to get the blood flowing but at realistic volumes. It can be done without being  stuck in the lobby but it takes great components.

Another thing to note you will never get the live experience at home simply because the way mic`s are placed within venues or studios, it might sound good or great but it will never be the same as being there, it will be different no matter what.
simonmoon's avatar
simonmoon
505 posts
 
The answer is no. 

There is a difference between sound power level and sound pressure level.

A good system can easily produce the same sound pressure level as a full orchestra, but cannot reproduce the same power level.


fuzztone's avatar
fuzztone
5,540 posts
 
No.  
So what??
asctim
467 posts
 
Well said millercarbon. I also agree with miijostyn- you can get a pretty convincing portrayal of a drum kit at a distance but I too have heard a real drum kit in my room along with my speakers and there's just no comparison, even when it's played softly enough to be pleasant sounding. It sprays the sound all over from the middle of the room which is very different than what the speakers do. To makea video comparison, imagine looking at realistic car headlights portrayed by your display pointing straight in your face and lighting up your room. 
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
If you are asking can any system play with all the dynamic volume and slam of a live drum kit, no. Which, interestingly enough is the answer to a related question: Would you want it if it did? NO! Are you nuts?!?! You know perfectly well how freaking loud a drum kit is. When the kid across the street took up drums in the garage it lasted about 20 minutes, the time it took everyone on the street to gather up their pitchforks and torches!

Even a piano. These things were created to fill large concert halls and noisy bar rooms with sound. They were not created to sit in a normal size room and listen.

This all stems from the crazy notion that what we mean by realism is literally in every sense the same.

Which would you rather look at, a Polaroid of an olive grove or The Olive Grove by Van Gogh? The world has spoken: one is worth millions, the other peanuts. Neither one is ever going to be confused with an actual olive grove. One however somehow captures the essence of "olive grove" so beautifully people compete to pay millions to have it.

That is what we mean by "recreate at home". When you hear Tchaikovsky on my system the walls dissolve the space expands and you feel transported to a concert hall. It is like watching a really good movie, no one ever for an instant believes they are on another planet. But if the writers and director and cinematographer all do their job extremely well you care so much for that stupid blue dude your eyes well up with tears when he dies. Mine sure did.


If they can get you so wrapped up and lost in the story you cry over a blue guy floating in space, and you can do this in your living room, then for sure we can do that with music too.
audiorusty
270 posts
 
I believe that you can or at least get very very close, but you absolutely have to be able to tune your system to your room. If you just put a system in a room and expect to get a realistic live performance sound it will never happen unless the acoustics of your room match the acoustics of the live venue. The ability to be able to tune the source material to your room can also go along way to being able to recreate the live experience.
jasonbourne52's avatar
jasonbourne52
2,863 posts
 
Altec Voice Of The Theater!
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,462 posts
 
The answer is yes sort of. You can reproduce drums at a distance, on a stage. You can not reproduce sitting at the kit and wracking a cymbal 2 feet away from you. I play the drums now only as a hobby. I do not have the speed or coordination a great drummer needs. I have the time and that is about it. I do know what drums are supposed to sound like. Gavin Harrison has the best set of drums I have ever heard. Reproducing a live performance to the point where you can close your eyes and imagine you are at the concert in reality is quite possible. In many ways the quality of the sound can be much better than you would have at many if not most live concerts. This excludes classical concerts in well engineered halls or open venues. It is the very rare system that can do this not that they can not produce an enjoyable experience and expense has much less to do with this than you would think. 

@whart , Talking about Gavin Harrison, I have seen KC 3 ties in the last three years, twice with VIP tickets. We were entertained by Tony Levin the first time and Gavin the second prior to the concert. Anyway, their concert set up with the three drummers up front gives you a wonder live image which perfectly matches the DVD Radical Action to Unseat Monkey Mind. That DVD of that same concert transports me right back to the live show, right up to the 6th row center seats I had originally. It is the single most realistic recording of a live show I was actually at. I really believe Robert Fripp planned it this way. 
whart's avatar
whart
3,017 posts
 
At best, we recreate a convincing illusion when everything, including the source material lines up with the strengths of a system; compared to live, even an unamplified drum kit is explosive in reality and pretty hard to duplicate; my usual hang was a small club which seats 100 or so. Yes, some systems might have the power and air-moving ability at higher db but I’m not sure how nicely such a system would play in the upper registers at high volume- it would depend quite a bit on the recording as well as the system and associated components.
I don’t listen at rock concert levels at home. I saw King Crimson perform a few years ago, 3 drummers, Tony Levin’s stick bass went way down; playing the Live in Toronto vinyl the next morning was like a small scale reproduction of this (very good recording, that) but simply could not duplicate the scale,  bass depth or levels of the sound system in a 2,000 seat hall.

joysjane's avatar
joysjane
165 posts
 
Although my system comes close, short answer is no.

I can play @ really close to 120db full range.
But, it sure as hell doesn’t sound like live music.
It sounds great.... just doesn’t have that live impact.
That’s not a complaint.
I really enjoy my system for what it does.

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Will be following what other’s points of view will be regarding this question...
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