Although my system comes close, short answer is no.
I can play @ really close to 120db full range.
But, it sure as hell doesn’t sound like live music.
It sounds great.... just doesn’t have that live impact.
That’s not a complaint.
I really enjoy my system for what it does.
Skip
Will be following what other’s points of view will be regarding this question... |
At best, we recreate a convincing illusion when everything, including the source material lines up with the strengths of a system; compared to live, even an unamplified drum kit is explosive in reality and pretty hard to duplicate; my usual hang was a small club which seats 100 or so. Yes, some systems might have the power and air-moving ability at higher db but I’m not sure how nicely such a system would play in the upper registers at high volume- it would depend quite a bit on the recording as well as the system and associated components.
I don’t listen at rock concert levels at home. I saw King Crimson perform a few years ago, 3 drummers, Tony Levin’s stick bass went way down; playing the Live in Toronto vinyl the next morning was like a small scale reproduction of this (very good recording, that) but simply could not duplicate the scale, bass depth or levels of the sound system in a 2,000 seat hall.
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The answer is yes sort of. You can reproduce drums at a distance, on a stage. You can not reproduce sitting at the kit and wracking a cymbal 2 feet away from you. I play the drums now only as a hobby. I do not have the speed or coordination a great drummer needs. I have the time and that is about it. I do know what drums are supposed to sound like. Gavin Harrison has the best set of drums I have ever heard. Reproducing a live performance to the point where you can close your eyes and imagine you are at the concert in reality is quite possible. In many ways the quality of the sound can be much better than you would have at many if not most live concerts. This excludes classical concerts in well engineered halls or open venues. It is the very rare system that can do this not that they can not produce an enjoyable experience and expense has much less to do with this than you would think.
@whart , Talking about Gavin Harrison, I have seen KC 3 ties in the last three years, twice with VIP tickets. We were entertained by Tony Levin the first time and Gavin the second prior to the concert. Anyway, their concert set up with the three drummers up front gives you a wonder live image which perfectly matches the DVD Radical Action to Unseat Monkey Mind. That DVD of that same concert transports me right back to the live show, right up to the 6th row center seats I had originally. It is the single most realistic recording of a live show I was actually at. I really believe Robert Fripp planned it this way. |
Altec Voice Of The Theater! |
I believe that you can or at least get very very close, but you absolutely have to be able to tune your system to your room. If you just put a system in a room and expect to get a realistic live performance sound it will never happen unless the acoustics of your room match the acoustics of the live venue. The ability to be able to tune the source material to your room can also go along way to being able to recreate the live experience. |
If you are asking can any system play with all the dynamic volume and slam of a live drum kit, no. Which, interestingly enough is the answer to a related question: Would you want it if it did? NO! Are you nuts?!?! You know perfectly well how freaking loud a drum kit is. When the kid across the street took up drums in the garage it lasted about 20 minutes, the time it took everyone on the street to gather up their pitchforks and torches!
Even a piano. These things were created to fill large concert halls and noisy bar rooms with sound. They were not created to sit in a normal size room and listen.
This all stems from the crazy notion that what we mean by realism is literally in every sense the same.
Which would you rather look at, a Polaroid of an olive grove or The Olive Grove by Van Gogh? The world has spoken: one is worth millions, the other peanuts. Neither one is ever going to be confused with an actual olive grove. One however somehow captures the essence of "olive grove" so beautifully people compete to pay millions to have it.
That is what we mean by "recreate at home". When you hear Tchaikovsky on my system the walls dissolve the space expands and you feel transported to a concert hall. It is like watching a really good movie, no one ever for an instant believes they are on another planet. But if the writers and director and cinematographer all do their job extremely well you care so much for that stupid blue dude your eyes well up with tears when he dies. Mine sure did.
If they can get you so wrapped up and lost in the story you cry over a blue guy floating in space, and you can do this in your living room, then for sure we can do that with music too.
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Well said millercarbon. I also agree with miijostyn- you can get a pretty convincing portrayal of a drum kit at a distance but I too have heard a real drum kit in my room along with my speakers and there's just no comparison, even when it's played softly enough to be pleasant sounding. It sprays the sound all over from the middle of the room which is very different than what the speakers do. To makea video comparison, imagine looking at realistic car headlights portrayed by your display pointing straight in your face and lighting up your room. |
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The answer is no.
There is a difference between sound power level and sound pressure level.
A good system can easily produce the same sound pressure level as a full orchestra, but cannot reproduce the same power level.
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Most home systems play as if your in the lobby of a venue getting the sound as if your in the same room as the players would not be good for your hearing if done daily.
Great equipment can give the illusion at lower volumes and this is what most audiophiles clamor for, to get the blood flowing but at realistic volumes. It can be done without being stuck in the lobby but it takes great components.
Another thing to note you will never get the live experience at home simply because the way mic`s are placed within venues or studios, it might sound good or great but it will never be the same as being there, it will be different no matter what. |
The Altec VOTT can easily do it! Full drum kit - no problem! Loud rock band - AC/DC - again no problem! That's why it remains a classic speaker! |
with sufficient amplification, my standard reference the maggie tympani III speaker system can do it. i heard such demonstrated in the best [acoustically treated] room @ definitive hifi [seattle] in 1982. it was like being at the front of a hemisphere of "being there" [at the recording venue]. no real substitute for watts and/or sheer square footage of speaker radiating surface/wideness of dispersion. |
Wow, more of you are saying no than I would have expected. This tells me many have yet to hear a 1st class system. The best systems actually have better sound than you get at most concerts and easily match the volume levels if that is what you want. Everybody needs to go to a King Crimson concert then hear a top notch system play Monkey Mind. |
rh67, I have many excellent live recordings that replicate the live set up perfectly. But that is not the point. You do not have to match the live situation perfectly to have a "live like" experience. Studio recordings can be excellent but in many instances are surrealistic. |
Easily, if you like Jazz. |
Dear @wweiss : "" can we at this time reproduce accurately the power of a symphony orchestra in the home? ""
NO, that’s impossible today and in the near future and the reasons are not because the live SPLs that we can get in audio systems.
In a live concert/event if we are seated at near field and not seated 40m. from the source normally what is between the source of MUSIC is only the air.
The power of live MUSIC comes from those instruments transients and its very fast developed harmonics that arrives to our ears/body through the air and nothing else in between. The power comes from there and we not only can listen it but can feel it all over our body.
That is what impedes ( no matters what. ) that we can’t mimic a live event even that the recording microphones are way better ( capture a wider range frequency with a dynamic range to wider too. ) that each one of us ears because that MUSIC when arrives to our ears from the speakers already gone and pass for " thousands " of " veils " through the long and tortuose recording and playback process.
All those " veils " are and makes a terrible sound degradation. Here in México city there are a lot of people playing MUSIC to take some money and they do sometimes fixed in a street corner and other times just walking along the streets and do it with acoustic instruments and when we listen say one of those gentlemans playing a trumpet and we are at 60m.-80m. from the source we can with any single doubt and we know that that sound does not comes from an audio system. Tha’s the power of live MUSIC .
We can name any room/system and no single of them can do that at any price in any " scenario ", it’s only a caricature of the real thing.
I'm totally sure that MUSIC coming not from a recording but live any one of us can immediatly identify if the sounds is amplified or acoustic.
We all reproduce MUSIC at home because we are MUSIC lovers and this is all about.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R. |
I have been playing "guitar hero" for over 40 years, a few decades before that ridiculous video toy was conceived, difference being you're at least aping being a real musician!
I'm sure other players have as well. Plugging in a cheap guitar to play along to my favorite Zeppelin Songs along with the always cool solos of Steely Dan(Jeff Baxter/Denny Dias)
"Play the song Aja by Steely Dan. I can play on my system the drum solo by the great Steve Gadd at realistic volume levels-if you dare -but it is not the same as real drums!! "
Steve Gadd is a killer drummer. Nice outro on Aja. I also like Jeff Porcaro's work on the SD albums.
I would imagine just like drums, you're just not gonna get the EXACT tone since there as many variables. You can get close, especially an acoustic guitar. STILL, even the BEST setups leave something to be desired.
Even hearing the uber systems- ILLUSION. Spend a ton of dough, follow some audiophool messiah with tweaks and rituals....you still get FAKE, but it may sound good enough to forget that it's just a few fancy boxes and wire.
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Small jazz ensemble, sure.
Baroque string group, easy.
Full symphony orchestra - no. The reason being what was already mentioned - you would have to synthesize the huge room acoustic to reproduce it correctly. Don't know about you guys, but my room volume is around 4200 cubic feet while a concert hall is c.30,000 cu ft.. |
The guy who designed my speakers says he voices them to sound like the sweet spot seats in Carnegie Hall.
Having been there I’d say he did a very good job. |
Raul, I politely disagree. There are countless instances where the sonic experience is better with a top notch system than at a live concert. The reverse is also true. It is easy to make a system project the acoustic energy of a real concert. Making it sound "real" is a much more difficult problem. Very few systems manage to do this. Many come close, many more are far away. But, this is not everyone's goal and all these systems present their owners with an enjoyable experience. Only nitwits like me drive ourselves crazy trying to make the ultimate subwoofer. Beats watching the news.
I have been chasing the "live" experience ever since That Allman Brothers Concert in 1970. I got my first pair of subwoofers in 1978, RH Labs, a big leap forward but, the crossovers were not so hot back then. Sometime I would inadvertently take a step backwards, crap! I guess that didn't work. Save up some more money. Maybe a little luck. Plucked a pair of JC 1's off display. Learn how to juggle signal processing. Make a few mistakes. Almost burned up a new loudspeaker.
Quite a trip. Everyone here has their own trip. As for a system that can present music like a live situation? You bet it can be done. There are no short cuts, no compromises, no WAF. You have to be ready to build a house and design a room specifically for music reproduction including using construction adhesive to glue all the blue board and subfloor down. You have to buy equipment capable of projecting the power of a live concert. If you are a Nine Inch Nails Buff it is going to be a ton of power.
You are not going to do it with LS3 5A's and an integrated amp. Not that these can't sound very nice, they do. But, they are not powerful enough to bring an orchestra into your room. Again, most sane people just want to listen to nice clean music. They do not have illusions of grandeur and they have better things to spend their money on. (a 911 and an Italian bicycle)
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No tablejockey, they do not. Not at all. You just have not heard one but, they are rare. What most people think are top notch systems are just a hap hazard collection of equipment strapped together and turned on. Very few systems are purposely designed and skillfully tuned in a room designed for music reproduction. |
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@jasonbourne”Altec Voice Of The Theater!”
these were my system in the 70s - bi-amed (60w 15”, and 30w to horns.
Audiophile?
A: yes by definition. B: not high end by a long shot.
All I had to start were Sheffield Lab direct to disc recordings. Concert hall levels; not concer hall resolution.
——-
A Good Billy Cobham recording is a hoot - many of his recordings are great, well mic’d, and well mastered. “Warning” was my intro to Cobham.
Oops, I digressed again 😎 |
Simple answer, NO. Why would you want that kind of volume? I need to save my ears. Clarity and dynamic range, maybe close. |
Dear @mijostyn : So, what are you saying?:
that some times you can mimic the kind of live MUSIC sound where in between you and the MUSIC source exist only air and that you can do it ( mimic . ) through a recording where that live MUSIC must pass through " THOUSANDS " of tortuose steps that all over the recording and and playing process makes a heavy degradation to that live MUSIC signal?
Come on, you are better than that. What I posted is only common sense not rocket science, please read again and try not to be biased with your room/system experiences that can’t do it no matter what and in a polyte way: does not matters what you think about.
Just common sense.
R. |
@wweiss --
I ask again, can we at this time reproduce accurately the power of a symphony orchestra in the home?
The "power" of a live full scale symphony orchestra is very much about a sum of things and as such a composite term, so much indeed that the recording itself does quite a lot to minimize any attempt at a replicated experience when reproduced. Power, other than SPL is also about scale, size of image and a sense of the whole location while being totally effortless at that, which is to say the need for sheer physics to be accommodated and the ability to image properly - in a larger space/at a proper distance. Implementation is paramount, acoustically as well (i.e.: I loath over-deadened rooms from too much absorption; it kills the energy and expansion of sound, and has nothing to do with a live sound imprinting), but it's all for nothing if the speakers can't fill the space effortlessly at any desired SPL to begin with (and remember: you always need more capability than you'll ever need - it's called 'headroom'). I believe the latter part is usually underestimated, if it's even prioritized. More specifically to the question posed: even if we wanted to, not really. Not if the impression and experience of a live acoustic symphony orchestra in a large auditorium is dear to you, and you truly take it in. Nothing reproduced comes significantly close in my experience, and in any case we can only do so much with what's afforded us via the limited nature of the recording itself. @mijostyn --
Wow, more of you are saying no than I would have expected. This tells me many have yet to hear a 1st class system.
I'd say it's about maintaining the importance and comprehending the nature of a live acoustic event, and being honest to that. You can't possibly speak on behave of a plethora of set-ups you've heard as anything being representative, other than (mostly) your own; 8 ft. floor-to-ceiling ESL's and sub-augmented at that isn't your daily cup of tea, even among more all-out assaults in audiophilia, and it's an important physics part wholly missing in most set-ups to approximate and truer live imprinting. The best systems actually have better sound than you get at most concerts and easily match the volume levels if that is what you want.
What's your specific concert context here? A live acoustic event IS the reference, unless you're badly seated and the acoustics play a severe trick on you. It seems to me you're after something else than live sound qua live sound. Matching live sound levels can be somewhat ameliorated in a home environment due to constricted spacing, which at the same time is a potential problem per above earlier mentioned; one needs "power" as it plays out in proper, not too constricted spacings, which in turn places more demands on the speakers and their size and SPL capabilities. |
As frequently the case, MC says it best. Electrically reproduced music is an art. Art is a vehicle that “comments” on aspects of life.
When does Art become Life? When there is a suspension of disbelief. As with a stereo system of a certain quality, there are surely elements of that Art that touch our sensibilities and engender an emotional response. Is Art actually life? Is the sound of a great stereo system life... no. Is it enjoyable... yes! |
No. It's all a recreated illusion. And I'm glad of it.
1. In my apartment, every disk I play Always sounds exactly the same. Never had I been attended a Live Performance and gotten EXACTLY the same performance as the night or two ago playing the same program. Nor have I performed and experienced that "same" performance as the night before. For the better or worst.
2. A solo artist with a guitar would fit in my apartment. 4 musicians maybe. Symphony Orchestra, No way.
3. There is more to music than achieving high SPLs of Live Music. What about the pianissimos? Or the No Play (rest) notes. The space between the notes you hear. Just as important.
Holy moly! Drums?! I played in jazz bands. When we were all were mic'd. Most of the time the drum set was not. When we were not mic'd, I/we could not play over that drummer. In an orchestra of 100+ musicians. There usually is only 1 each percussion instrument. When there was a need for multiples of them, the 100 became 150+. When I got called in as a "bumper" the usual 4-5 of became 8 of us in the french horn section.
4. My system can't. If it could I would get evicted if I even come close to the spl of a live performance. My neighbor had taken to his electric guitar 2:30 in the morning. Bars closes at 2. I thought it was hilarious. Landlord didn't. Girlfriend is still here. He is not. |
A fascinating aspect of this I forgot to mention, it was Eric Alexander being a professional drummer who was upset with the inability of even SOTA audio to reproduce that sound that motivated him to invent his MTM array. His Tekton speakers are phenomenal success. So in spite of the fact no one really wants an actual drum kit in their home (well almost no one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVFFjp90ouU ) we do appreciate being able to get reasonably close. |
Altec voice of theater
Jbl big studio monitors.
Most Home audio speaker are designed to sound good to our ears in so many different ways at low medium volumes. Listening to a live jazz or orchestra performing using compression drivers 15-18 inch low frequency drivers . These speakers are designed to be more efficient more dynamic and take a lot of wattage to produce the dynamics you are experiencing. I personally have four different set of large speakers with a sensitivity at 95 to 97db at 1 watt. Some have 15 or 18 inch woofers but all have compression drivers. I prefer the sound I hear from my speakers to regular dome or paper tweeters with 8 10 or 12 inch woofers. Don't get me wrong the smaller speakers sound fantastic. My ears 👂prefer the dynamics of the larger speakers but I am running out of room in my man cave
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I like live music MAYBE twice a year and that is a push.. I can reproduce what I LIKE at the levels I like.. That's all that really matters right..
The guy that's making the music count's right up until I pay for the rights to play it on my equipment.. LOL That usually means I turn it DOWN...
They turn it UP...
Regards |
@phusis , I have been at every kind of live acoustic event you care to think of from string quartets in churches to Boston Symphony Hall where I have heard anything from Beethoven's 9th to Cassandra Wilson, to Dave Holland, McCoy Tyner, Ron Carter, Oz Noy and more at the Regatta Bar, to Tower of Power at Scullers, to Allison Krause at Meadowbrook, to Solo Elton John, The dead, Radiohead and Nine Inch Nails at the Garden. This is going to take several pages. I think you get the picture.
The question was, "can this be done." My answer is yes it can. You can get the very same chills up your spine you get at a concert right at home.
I wish everyone could have the resources to do it. But, others prefer to buy a Summer Home or go on an insane vacation. Whatever. Most people simply do not care. For those who do there is light at the end of the tunnel.
@rauliruegas, That was very true in the old days. Layers of distortion were added at every step on the way to you. Even so there are many old classical recordings that can still raise the hair on the back of my neck. But, it took pop recordings a while to catch up. Now however, the signal is immediately digitized and additional distortion essentially stops until the conversion to analog which may not happen until you get the recording home. Maybe you and I are talking about different things. I am not saying that I can exactly mirror a live performance. I am saying that I can reach and frequently pass that level of musical involvement and pleasure. Creating a situation where if you closed your eyes you could easily envision yourself at a live performance. I have heard several systems reach this level of performance. I stick to my answer. It can be done. |
@mglik , Studio recording is a crap shoot. Artists like Kate Bush use it as art. Others have no idea what they are doing. Painfully few studio recordings make me feel like I am at a live event. This does not mean they are not enjoyable. It is just a different experience like Herbie Hancock's Sextant. I prefer recordings where all the musicians are playing together and not spliced in here and there. I find the discontinuities bothersome.
JBL-4345, it is not just about volume. It is very easy to make a system that goes loud. It is much more difficult to make a system that presents the music as an array of individual instruments and voices in space, each with its own special characteristics. |
jbl-4345 / Is it live or Memorex, it's Memorex... |
jwillox, what you have to get is the first three Mahavishnu Orchestra Records, The Inner Mounting Flame, Birds of Fire and Visions of the Emerald Beyond as well as Billy's first solo album, Spectrum. These predate Warning by at least a decade when Billy was young and explosive. The George Duke, Billy Cobham Band Live in Europe is another good one. |
The closest you can get is with an all horn system.
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Hire the damn band, and the 'recreation' is easy. Until then, and always....all one can accomplish is 'an illusion of...' Just looked over this: https://www.openculture.com/2021/05/one-mans-quest-to-build-the-best-stereo-system-in-the-world.html......and it's Still creating 'an illusion'....likely a damn fine one, but still 'unreal'. Lots of objects and tech between the source and the space listened within. Much like 24 fps in film, even a digital video is not reality. The same can be said for an LP, tape, CD, or streaming. Even as close as you think you're getting, it's an illusion. And we can ignore for the moment those that claim the actual Reality is an illusion, since what you see is really not what it really IS. That just drives one off for another drink...as long as you ignore that illusion, and what it does to you. ;) Enjoy it anyway, J *LOL* |
IMO it comes down to the recording as much as the system. The closest recording I have heard that sounds like the live performance was Dire Straits live in NY you tube video streamed from mac book pro into dac. For studio recordings IMO Pink Floyd has the best drum sound. |
"You just have not heard one but, they are rare. What most people think are top notch systems are just a hap hazard collection of equipment strapped together and turned on. Very few systems are purposely designed and skillfully tuned in a room designed for music reproduction." Mijostyn- You're right, I need to hear EVERY system on the planet first to make such a statement. We can agree on music music chosen for the attempt-King Crimson. I can't imagine hearing a version of "The Court of the Krimson King" that sounds "real" So much R&R that's great music, but not so great pressings. Maybe I just haven't heard a "stamper" copy on the right setup? There is plenty of interesting stuff going on in that tune it would be the litmus test for a system. "they have better things to spend their money on. (a 911 and an Italian bicycle" We've discussed this before...Waiting right now after dropping a few bucks on a new rig. The wait is at least 4 months lead still(slow boat from China) https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/tcr-advanced-pro-disc-frameset-2021It's the "cheaper" model! Going the impractical/ex$pensive route- purchased this one and parting it with stuff I like since an off the shelf model doesn't offer SRAM wireless. Even If I could afford this, but I would STILL end up swapping out things. Also not a fan of the integrated seatpost. https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/tcr-advanced-sl-disc-0-2021A lot of dough and you STILL have to pedal it The LAST bike...I think? Anxious to finally ride full disc and WIRELESS! |
No be my answer. No friggin' way to be exact.
The real question is who would even want to create a live band in their listening room? Even a simple acoustic guitar played eight fert away is loud.
I want something that sounds good to my ears in my room at my listening level. |
Certainly. All you need is a concert theater and a full orchestra. It's easy.
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Hello, I agree with Mijostyn, The recording has to be really good and correct. My system and room are very close. I recently auditioned the Ayre KX-R $30,000 preamp. I know if I had the matching mono blocks and the right speakers it would be right there with the right recording. I have already experienced it. One thing that really helped was the Puritan PSM156. Before I bought that the decay on my system was on the light side. Now, the gap between tracks is a lot less. I’ll bet you didn’t know there was music in that space. There is! I also bought the Puritan Ultimate XX power cable to go from the Puritan to the wall. Please audition this thing if you can. You need subs. Sorry but you do if you want to reach this level of sound. All of your equipment has to be on on par. Also, all of those tweaks MC says to do, do them. They all make a difference if done right. Also, you need a full range speaker. Those open baffle speakers are awesome. I think with those and a couple of subs that hit a true 20 hz you are there. That being said. Not everyone is trying to believe they are at a live concert. Most are just trying to reproduce the recording the way the artist intended it to be heard. This is why I still like the idea of the audiophile coffee/ bar. Coffee shop in the morning, sandwich shop in the afternoon, and listening club with alcohol at night. The only negatives I heard are theft and smoke. We don’t allow smoking inside in the Chicagoland area. As far as theft figure it out. That’s why we have insurance. If you are in the Chicagoland area then you can audition the Puritan at: https://holmaudio.com/if you are in the Atlanta area: https://www.11stereo.com/. There is a YouTube video about this by Mike at 11Stereo: Mike goes by OCDHifiguy on YouTube. He has two videos about this Puritan PSM156 for the speakers. https://www.spatialaudiolab.com/shop |
Dear @mijostyn: This is the OP question and my answer was specific to that question as what other gentlemans posted: @phusis or @asvjerry and others :
"""
I ask again, can we at this time reproduce accurately the power of a symphony orchestra in the home? """
You posted several things ( as other gentlemans did it. ) but you did not gave a precise answer, even in some ways you posted a " polyte " ( your word ) critic of my answer.
After some posts you finally accepted that you are talking of a way different concept to the OP question and here your statement about:
""
Maybe you and I are talking about different things. I am not saying that I can exactly mirror a live performance. """
Certainly not. You continue with other statements:
"""
I am saying that I can reach and frequently pass that level of musical involvement and pleasure.......................
Creating a situation where if you closed your eyes you could easily envision yourself at a live performance. """
The first statement is the target of almost any music lover/audiophile. I created that in my room system as thousands and thousands of audiophiles all over the world.
I don't have to close my eyes to imagine I'm at a live performance when it's not something real but only " imagination " and this is not what the OP posted but I respect your opinions.
@mglik posted something of ART and MUSIC is a true ART and that's why has the POWER to moves any one of us deepest feelings/emotions ( in different way to each one of us. ) and MUSIC is so powerful about that even if you listen some recording through any media, inclusive radio or a walkman, maybe could move you because that recording perhaps makes that comes out " memories " or vintage times full of hapiness or unique in our life.
That's why MUSIC is an ART and room/systems are enjoyable as malik said.
R.
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"Live music" is Performance Art; 'downstream' (pun? maybe....) is a reproduction, as is a recording of a 'live' situation.
Sure, you may be able to listen to a squeak in the kickdrums' hardware on your home system....just like hearing Van Morrison go 'Uh' in a song.
A funny 'miscue' on his part, but it made its' way onto the LP....and the CD...and beyond.
Done live after that? I really doubt it, but you can be sure Van got ribbed about it.....;)
The roar of the footlights, the smell of the crowd....all that.
I don't care a rodents' butt how good your system is or isn't...it's Not Live, nor ever will or can be.
I don't expect perfection from my pile of misc. If it 'gets me there', in some fashion that pleases (for now), I'm good to go.
Please Note: I consciously refrain from commenting upon whatever and however you're applying to enjoy what boats your float.
I can't hear it, nor not likely ever having the opportunity to do so.
The only thing I 'hear' is your commentary in my head.
Sometimes the neurons 'short out'. but I won't hold it against you...the breaker hasn't tripped yet.
Note #2: 'You' is used in a 'collective' sense, 'blame' could be directed, but I'll keep my keys to myself..... |
The first question to ask is can the recording process accurately capture live music.
Maybe on very simple acoustic instruments, but otherwise, no.
Next is how much does the mastering process compress the "liveness" out.
I think the best we can hope for is reproducing what the recording/mastering process intends us to hear. |
No. Too many flaws and shortcomings in the reproduction chain. Too many flaws in room acoustics. |
No, and if someone says yes then they are just fooling themselves or drinking heavily. |
Come on SOME of you. We all know accurate reproduction of a symphony orchestra at home is not possible. End of story. |
JBL was always famous though the years as being very good at dynamic range. From an English High Fidelity perspective, JBL was not as good at low distortion. Many such as KEF attempted to get the distortion down first, work on dynamics later. Many great British speakers of the 70s and 80s sound awesome-but don't play very loud. I know directly from Billy Woodman [ATC] that his very specific goal was dynamics like the American speakers, distortion like the best British speakers. It is difficult to maintain consistent sound quality [distortion] across the entire dynamic range.
One way Billy tried to explain this to people trying to buy speakers is to state the dynamic range of the speaker though a max long term SPL level. This is also important in pro (in studios) where the mix engineer works at low level (80s and 90s dB SPL) but the band wants to hear it loud when they walk into the control room and hear "what the engineer captured' (110dB+). This is exactly why you see "big" monitors in wall at studios with horns but tiny little [mix speaker] things on the meter bridge.
The max SPL Billy's speakers can achieve in their largest speaker long term is about 118dB SPL 1Meter [SCM 300A]. Most of the speakers they produce for home can hit somewhere around 105dB SPL to 112dB SPL or so. This is more than enough for a non amplified piano trio, or live orchestra, but not a rock band.
Brad
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@fiesta75 -- Come on SOME of you. We all know accurate reproduction of a symphony orchestra at home is not possible. End of story. Indeed. Not being able to replicate the live event in a home setting though has been a leeway to an extend that throws off the need for physics with the get-between of convenience, spousal demands, living space restrictions, etc. - a formed product type narrative or paradigm even that has grown from these limitations. Not to mention the elusive "artistic expression" of a live event that is sought recuperated in a myriad of ways that’s really about subjectivity in searching for that lost DNA hidden within a particular recording/interpretation/set-up constellation, to please a given pair of ears and mind. That doesn’t change the fact that trying to approximate a live event from the blunt (but necessary) perspective of physical demands on the part of the speakers in particular, is not in vain. A kind of "ersatz" of the live event claimed its equal or even superior by poster @mijostyn would seem a blasphemous notion, but this is coming from a more outright accommodation to physics and acoustics, and as such I find it an interesting handed-over experience that could instill such an impression. I would be careful though suggesting that others are in for the same realization given a set-up of equal prowess. To many the live acoustic event given its nature is a holiness even that’s simply unparalleled, because there IS NO replicating it elsewhere and through other means. @lonemountain/Brad -- The max SPL Billy’s speakers can achieve in their largest speaker long term is about 118dB SPL 1Meter [SCM 300A]. Most of the speakers they produce for home can hit somewhere around 105dB SPL to 112dB SPL or so. This is more than enough for a non amplified piano trio, or live orchestra, but not a rock band.
The needed SPL capabilities of speakers is underestimated, certainly trying to achieve live acoustic, let alone electrically amplified sound levels and their dynamic range. Many balk at achieving live levels in the home with reference to potential hearing damage, but the vast dynamic swings of live music significantly lowers the average SPL - as one would experience at a live acoustic concert - not that daily exposition to this volume range is recommended. The one factor to consider is that a given max SPL requirement must be reproduced comfortably by the speakers, and that’s not at the limit of their performance ceiling. So, if +105dB peaks are necessitated at the listening position at a given distance, the (typically low efficiency) speakers must have somewhat more to give for them to be effortless at these levels. Not being able to do so mayn’t have them sounding overly strained per se, not least if that’s what one is used to hearing, but once you hear speakers playing with absolute ease at these SPL’s it becomes apparent what effortlessness is about and how important it is. That’s why, as they say: headroom is your friend, and that becomes even more important in the lower frequencies where hearing acuity lessens. |
