Best sub for music,

The number of subs and their distribution is far more important.

r e l

REL.  two is better than one.

For you Mr Mozartfan, GR OB servo or a low cost DBA. Both are pretty darn easy to set up and they actually work. More the merrier..

HSU ULS-15 MkII....Sealed sub, not at all expensive. Get more than 1 

Every time I bring up the subject of subwoofer the name REL is the answer. Including my audio dealer who has sold and installed many and of different brands… REL. Best and easiest to install with their setup and outstanding performance.

Always two subs… not one for music.

OK 
REL it is, Prices,,,let me see ,,,prices all over the place, Which REL,. there are like 20 models
Seas W26 + xovers = $1400. 
So less than 1400 done deal.

You can get two HSU ULS-15 MK2`s for $1550

Another vote for Real. Excellent and easy setup. I considered the Hsu. Way too big. T series is good but S series is better

Svs has been a front runner lately there 3000 Sb, and 3000 mini 
are very good ,and many awards on the 3000 sb
and very high tech most others subs do not have such as a dual range Pole piece,at low volumes tuneful using the inside ,when music is turned up the whole pole piece is used ,and 50 bit processors very high current mosfets on the outputs and one thing 
most others don’t have a excellent app to control  many functions on demand.

Velodyne servo subwoofer 

Don’t overlook Rythmik.  These are very good sounding and well made powered subs for music.
https://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12SE.html

I do not know where this differentiation between home theater subwoofers and HiFi subwoofers came from. There are good subwoofers and bad subwoofers. Perhaps home theater people tend to buy bad subwoofers. Good subwoofers will do anything. They are even better at doing theater than bad subwoofers. 

Most commercial subwoofers are not even fit for home theater duty. It is very hard to make an enclosure that works at a reasonable price not to mention terrible cross over strategies. Play anything with a lot of bass and put your hand on your subwoofer. That vibration and shaking is distortion. Ideally you should be able to put your hand on it and feel absolutely nothing. I made 200 lb enclosures out of solid surface material and I could still feel some vibration. Next versions will be better.
Stay away from ported subwoofers. Subwoofers have to move a lot of air and it is very hard to avoid port noise. It is better to stick with sealed designs and correct the frequency response with power and room control.
The best subwoofers now use what is called a balanced force design. Two identical drivers are placed at opposite ends of the enclosure and operate in phase so the vibrational forces cancel out.
 Regardless of the size of the room the minimum size is two 12" drivers or four 10" drivers. Bigger and more is always better. The less work any single driver has to do the lower will be the distortion. Making sub bass requires long excursions which take the suspension out of it's linear operating range. Bigger and multiple drivers do not have to move as far. The thought that smaller drivers are "faster" is beyond silly, another example of lay instinct run amok. The sign of a driver not being "fast enough" is it's high frequency response falling off. Any subwoofer driver that can make it to 500 Hz is more than fast enough. I do not know of a subwoofer driver that can't make it to 500 Hz. There are lots of great drivers out there. It is the enclosures that are the main problem followed by poor integration strategies and crossovers. Digital bass management and room control are essential to achieve the best results. 

The best sub for music isn’t a sub but a bass extension. Genelec W371a with GLM digital management. Bargain at $19K a pair.

https://www.genelec.com/w371a

   A sub's material of construction? While important in the basic sense of what manufacturer wants to use in their products, does not address your question.."Best Sub For Music".
   Don't obsess about materials of construction. Think about how you want music to sound. Sub integration can be a most challenging task and experimentation is most often needed to achieve the results YOU want. Millercarbon made a brief but important statement.
   I have gone thru some length of time to integrate my subs to deliver the sound I prefer. If you're serious about how to really get sub performance to compliment your music I would refer you to this article. It's one of the best I've read on the subject. It's quite lengthy but if you are patient and want to know how subs work read.

http://www.soundoctor.com/whitepapers/subs.htm

A good sub for music is one that can handle whatever HT throws at it.

If it can't handle cinematic effects it's never going to be able to cope with all types of music.

I hear the Ohio class subs have great acoustics.

And come with intercontinental room correction.

Had several over the years (Velodyne, NHT, JL Audio, etc.) and for music REL is out in front by a mile. Their S series and Reference line can’t be touched. 

Replaced my S812 REL with 2 Rythmik dual firing subs. Never knew how much my mighty REL were holding back my music until the switch.

Rel. The T/x series. Various ways to connect, clean and punchy. 

2 HSU Research VTF 2 Mk 5. Driver is 12” front facing. Variable tuning (ported, dual ported or sealed), defeatable crossover, EQ settings to match port configuration and a nicely operating auto on mode that you never notice One wasn’t enough, although they measure down to 16HZ at around 110dB after setup. I will eventually get 2 more for my largish room (24’x 20’). You get a discount if you order 2 at the same time. 

I have had two REL 812/s (10 inch) in my system for a year.  I am super happy with them.  They have paired well with my Avantgarde Uno horn speakers (which have their own powered sub woofers). I will be adding another two later this year.

Another vote for HSU. Don’t like the super slam of HT?
Pull back on the gain. The VTF line of HSU is incredibly versatile.
Amazing performance vs dollar factor.
Best budget “super” sub in the market IMO

I believe cone material is only one small piece of the puzzle.  Speaker design is as much an art as a science.  My pair of Vandersteen 2Wq subs, now discontinued, have never been anything less than super musical, powerful and of a piece with my mains.  The only hitch is that your mains must be close to flat down to 40Hz.

This is a great thread! Thanks for the OP and the contributors. Right now I can't spring for a second sub for my main system. But I have one pretty good one in another system that I can add to my main system. Does mixing different sub brands/models introduce more problems than it fixes? My main L/R speakers go authoritatively down to about 40Hz. So I'm just adding the 20-40Hz. Thoughts?

I have only bought subs in pairs. Having been doing high end audio, I have learn certain abstract generalities that lead me to make choices without knowing facts. I wouldn’t mix. I would buy one and save to buy the second identical.

when I went to buy my first sub, the rule of thumb was, “you only need one, bass isn’t directional”. That didn’t feel right to me. No logic or reason… it’s the little stuff that matters in high end that add up to a really great system. So, I bought a pair. Over the ensuing years I read article after article as it became the common knowledge that in 2 channel 2 subs perform much better than one. And indeed, when you unplugged on e of my subs, the soundstage would diminish substantially. Why, don’t know, but it really made a difference.

I have had 4 different subs - and tried about 4 others that were "reviewed" as being the best.  Settled on a Rythmik - love it.  Unfortunately, they are not sold through a dealer network, so the support is not there like a good dealer would offer.  I got the 15" because I wanted something that would extend below my Wilsons.

@plaw - same here.

2 x Rythmik (E15HP2), with Wilson Audio speakers.
Those 2 Rythmik’s are about the same price as a single REL S/812.
Just way too many things not to like about REL subs.
Only 63 pages of comments on the AVSForum REL forum since 2008.
For example, SVS (1700+), Rythmik (2400+), PSA (3200+ pages).
Have never read a REL subwoofer recommendation on AVSForum yet (with the exception from within the REL forum itself). Outside that forum, nothing, or very rare.

Rel has solid marketing and has defined themselves as a room sub bass systems and talk about "tuning your Rel" - again marketing. I’ve owned a couple and they are good but so is Rythmik and I’m sure many others. JL looks really nice too.

I'm on a budget and am awaiting arrival of a pair of RogerSound Labs Speedwoofers. I don't like the fact they are ported, but am going to give them a try as they feature transmission line design [which matches what I have with my Atlantic Technology AT-1s]. Since RogerSound pays shipping both ways, they are the first to which I will give a try. I'm replacing a very dated Mirage dual opposed 8" sub which is far too boomy for my taste. All for music. 

If the RSLs don't work, will then try Rythmik or HSU. 

Best sub is no sub, There's nothing below 160hz, hardly a  few cello notes and kettle drums, 
You guys are fooling youself. 

REL S series! 

“Best sub is no sub, There's nothing below 160hz, hardly a few cello notes and kettle drums,
You guys are fooling youself.”

OP,  You’re only fooling yourself by believing in “Best sub is no sub”. Carry on! 

when I went to buy my first sub, the rule of thumb was, “you only need one, bass isn’t directional”. That didn’t feel right to me.

At 80Hz the waveform is about 14 feet long. This means that in most rooms within a couple of iterations of the cycle of the bass note is reverberance- so its also omnidirectional. At lower frequencies the waveform is even longer. That’s the rhyme and reason.

Two subs works better simply because you reduce standing waves a bit with their use. 3 subs works better; 4 subs works excellent with quite diminishing returns above 4.

There's nothing below 160hz, hardly a few cello notes and kettle drums,
You guys are fooling youself.

Low E on a string bass is 41Hz. You're fooling yourself if you think bandwidth that low or lower won't help with realism.

“Best sub is no sub, There's nothing below 160hz, hardly a few cello notes and kettle drums, 
You guys are fooling youself.”

Ralph is a gentleman, with impeccable physics. Takes a Brit however to get right to the point.
https://youtu.be/0c5ynKJxnWI?t=238

I'm using 4 SVS SB4000's and can tell you I'm about 70-30 music/ht. These subs keep right up with my Dynaudio's. I find the SVS' to be the most musical sub I have experienced...

Oh and the customer service at SVS is like none other I have experienced with ANY product! Their excellent subs are only bested by their customer service!

@atmasphere , Thanx for the sanity. 

Best sub is no sub, There's nothing below 160hz, hardly a few cello notes and kettle drums,
You guys are fooling youself.

hard to imagine someone with over 1000 posts here is this ignorant about the subject

And come with intercontinental room correction.

😂 That's the funniest thing I've heard all year.

@northbeach curious how the RSLs work out for you. Lots of good reviews on those. Very interested to see how they do in 2 Ch. I’ve owned Rythmik and HSU’s ULS 15 and VTF line - all great value that give the competition some level of hesitance. REL - never experienced, but there’s definitely something to be said with all of the posts above. 

I'm pretty sure an ear cleaning and a posted ear test is in order.. LOL

Voices mozartfan, "Nothing below 160" mercy what kind of music do you listen to? LOL I think even Cher get down there.. 

There is all kinds of music from 250 down.. 60 - 150 is BASS, 120-280 is MB and really directional. The issue I still have is vibration in the monitor cabinet..

80-300 is still hard to dampen in a cabinet, with mids and highs there too. Time alignment is impossible without separate cabinets (Mechanically) Sub frequencies 60< forget it. Not in my monitors cabinets.. or MB for that matter. BOTH are separate cabinets.

1. Subs GRs servo system
2. Band pass MB columns, direct coupled. NO passive XOs excellent cone control..
3. Monitors (split dipole) hybrid LS

All separate cabinets..  The best way I've found so far. IB MB columns and an OB servo sub system.. They work WELL in any room.. So far..

Regards

A response to "No sub is the best sub" and so I have also said....however, while we say, the cello is at 200 hz and the kettle drum can register at 110hz, the actual frequency isn't a pin point. While each instrument is most pronounced at the frequency point, the instrument contains a wide range of frequencies even much lower (and higher)than expected. As with photography, the black forms a key element even in the brightest pic. Our audiophile hobby resembles photography. All the frequencies (all shades of color) form the creation of a lifelike reproduction. Even human voice contains such very low frequencies that when removed or added can dramatically change the reproductive realism. My new sub is on the way....SVS SB-2000 Pro, its sister will follow next year. Any Thoughts?     

Long time lurker, first time poster...

I have to jump in and state what mijostyn stated above is excellent advise. After 30+ years in the audio world (home hi fi, car audio, Pro Audio), having large (or many) cones move very minimally is the key to low distortion and, if using ported cabinets, very little cause for port noise.

I am a big fan of sealed cabinets, but a ported cabinet can extend lower with a flatter (on paper) response if done correctly. However, with gain, crossover point selection and room loading, a sealed cabinet can provided a flatter response than what is shown on paper, like a ported cabinet can, as frequencies get lower.

Two (or more) subs seem mandatory to my ear. I can hear the soundstage pulled towards the subwoofer in a single sub setup in a home system or pro audio system.

In my main home system, I am using two 18" JBL 2269H drivers in specific JBL cabinets (vented design for recording studio use) for low frequency extension beneath my JBL 4349’s for strictly 2 channel music reproduction. Each sub frequency driver is being run by a JBL Synthesis SDA-2200 amp in bridge mode at 790 watts (admittedly, not the most high end of amplifiers-but I’m affiliated with a JBL Synthesis dealer, so I use what we sell). The 4349’s are driven by a McIntosh MC312 and the system is crossed over by an outboard home hi fi crossover at around 80 hertz. Lots of power for effortless driving of the system. I am tainted by JBL low frequency "color" due to all my years in pro audio. There is a familiarity to me of how JBL low frequency drivers reproduce low end and I enjoy it. I could go into why I like the accordion surrounds, paper cones, etc., but that gets boring...

18’s in a home? That seems illogical and nonsense. However, those cones simply don’t move at low to moderate levels. Again, goes back to what mijostyn states about low distortion levels when the cones (air pistons really) are not moving much. I have zero vent noise or chuffing. Again, being a sealed cabinet guy, I was quite hesitant on these cabinets but after implementation of the system, that large driver (and it’s construction) simply sounds good. At full tilt with the drivers reproducing frequencies in the 20’s, it’s scary as to how much fun it is. I have other systems in the house in smaller rooms with tiny cabinets (and one system with a tiny subwoofer) and 50 watts of power, but I hardly listen to them anymore due to just how much fun it is to listen to a large system with subs driven by big power in a big room.

I’ll probably get promptly booted out of here and banned for life for suggesting 18" JBL drivers on an audiophile forum, but just wanted to share my experiences and I’m having a ton of fun with this setup. Dual 10’s or 12’s should be a starting point for any addition of subs. I applaud everyone for at least considering subs in their home system. For decades I ran a small, low power, no sub, intimate system in my main room thinking, "nah, I’m good if the cabinets start rolling at 50 or 60 hertz". Life indeed begins below 40 hertz.

I’ll probably get promptly booted out of here and banned for life for suggesting 18" JBL drivers on an audiophile forum

Nah. 18s are cool. The bigger cone needs less excursion. Very nice for extension in the bass. The only real issue is the size of the cabinet to work with one.

jheppe815, welcome. You are absolutely right. Having a system that really produces low end is a lot of fun and frequently brings on smiles and laughing. I have many recordings of large organs that are so much fun to play for people. Every time a 32 footer lights up your vision actually blurs!
You get some really funny reactions. But most importantly with good live recordings you can close your eyes and feel as if you are at the concert. It is every bit as audibly enjoyable as being at the event. If you just listen to solo female folk singers playing guitar then I suppose you can do without a subwoofer but for everything else? Let's put it this way, the people that have decent subwoofer systems are having a lot more fun:-)

jheppe815, I use QSC amps to drive my subwoofers. I am not familiar with the JBL amplifier but using an expensive high end amplifier on subwoofers is totally unnecessary. Commercial amps are much more fairly priced and there are many sound reinforcement amps that have excellent bass. 1000 class AB watts with a damping factor 500 or above and a big power supply will generally fit the bill perfectly.

I agree with poster jheppe815 on the JBL subs. I use two JBL B460 18'' subwoofers crossed over @ 50 Hz from the mains. It's eargasmic!