Big source improvement using CD player

I borrowed a friend's esoteric dv50s CD player.  I could not believe the difference between it and streaming Spotify premium.  I am now in the market for a CD player.  One thing, the esoteric does not play DVD-R.  Can anyone recommend a comparable CD player in the used market that does? I'm looking in the $800 - $1500 range.  
If you're into streaming, I would much recommend a USB DAC so you can either stream or playing from your PC.  For your budget, I would recommend the Ayre QB9 DSD used.
So you want a good SACD, for spinning silver disk, right.
You have Spotify and the CD sounds better? Does it have to do both?
A CD I have a great little nugget, if that's what you want.

Spinning silver was the revelation.  But I do not want to be limited to 17-18 songs on a cd.  I was wondering if a dvd would sound just as good if copied with the same file sizes.  Reason being is that I refuse to change my cd every hour not to mention the predictability of the songs.  I'd like to throw 200 songs on a DVD without losing sound quality.  Is this possible? @oldhvymec what do you have?
Turn a 105 into a giant killer

It is common knowledge that the Oppo 105s Achilles Heel is the power supply (less recognized is the IEC and jumper for 120/220, as well). I found aftermarket PNP modules on Ebay as well as the EIC jumper. I bought an expensive EIC/jumper kit first, and was shocked at the sonic improvement. Once inside, I could see how easy it is to replace the OEM PS

For ~ $400 a 105 can be very competitive with many hi-end cd players/transports that plays most all current media
105s can be found used for ~$750, so...

It's no doubt that a cd player is better than spotify. Try Tidal or Quobuz and the story ends differently.

And no you don't need a USB dac into a computer. Get (at a minimum) a Bluesound Node 2i and computer be damned.


Puff, you have uncovered a great truth of digital audio: CD playback sounds better than streaming. I have found this to be the case in every scenario I’ve tried: in my main rig, my headphone rig, in my car, etc. 
Of course price and quality play a role. A $15 CD player probably won’t beat a $1,000 streamer. Given comparable budgets, CD players sound better.
CDs sound better than streaming? Shh ... once the word gets out, the streamers won't be donating their CDs to the thrift stores anymore. 

The Marantz CD players (especially the ones that play Blu-rays and DVDs) are not that expensive and have excellent sound.  
I have found that it is not so much the medium as it is the particular mastering.  A lot of streaming sources do sound bad, but then, so do a lot of currently available CDs of the same music.  In many cases, older CDs sound WAY better then current reissues.  It comes down to how the digital mastering was done.  That is one of the reasons why certain CD reissues command exorbitant prices on Discogs, such as Japanese reissues.  

I think it is worthwhile having a CD player and buying used CDs; they can be quite economical to collect.  But, I don't think one loses any quality by ripping the CD to put on a streamer/server.  The sound quality of a server can be as good as that of a CD player and a server makes your collection much more accessible and convenient.  Also, streaming services can give you access to way more music than you can possible own, even though quality is sometimes not ideal.  
Why does a good CD player make a difference? Does it have a magical dac or is it how it reads the information? 
Spotify Premium streams at 320 kbps, a CD is 1411 kbps...the rest is magic...Tidal HiFi is 1411 a CD even without a magical DAC is better sounding than Spotify...though some believe bits are bits, many believe both the transport and DAC make a big of course quality source material which Spotify is not, and doesn’t pretend to be...the more serious debate is Tidal or Qobuz on a good streamer vs CD with the same DAC...

71 posts
06-02-2020 9:16am
Why does a good CD player make a difference? Does it have a magical dac or is it how it reads the information?

You asked me what I use. I use a good deck. One of the biggest bangs for the buck is Sony ES series SACD. They are older, but very good playback. The 777 and 9000 will match or better, 3-6k units. I don't care who makes it. Over and over the guys, I type and mouse with, say the same. They won't hold a thousand CDs or 1000 songs. But is one of the best sources. Money is not the factor.. For once...

2,602 posts
06-02-2020 9:24am
Spotify Premium streams at 320 kbps, a CD is 1411 kbps...the rest is magic...Tidal HiFi is 1411 a CD even without a magical DAC is better sounding than Spotify...though some believe bits are bits, many believe both the transport and DAC make a big difference

I'm in the camp Transport and Dac DO make  a big difference.. As far as services, it's up to the individual. But again jl35, pointed out some are better than others.. I know, you don't have to spend thousands to get the best, to spin silver...You can though.. 

When it's time to concert music for me, I look to LPs, CDs, and a Server.

My server is loaded, for convenience, but a SACD, and TT are tough to beat for super high SQ.. Maybe well taken care of mastered Reel to Reel.

So for the money, a good storage device and a way to convert and store non compressed music files. When you get serious and want to concert
SACD. 200 - 1500.00 best of the best..

I put together a 550. USD system, speakers, cables, Sony ES 55, tube headphone preamp, 2.1 class d amp.. The crew, though I spent thousands, and thousands.... I think it's at 625.00 now.
I added handmade Harp boxes. Adds Tungsten, silver, and a few other goodies to the speaker IC. For on the fly conductor, and tuning change) 

No need to spend a lot, to get a lot..

For the record I did have Tidal premium and it did sound much better.  I felt Tidal was glitchy always giving me problems though.  Also Spotify links with SoundHound so if you are out and about and hear new music, soundhound sends the song into your Spotify app on command.  I find this incredibly convenient and useful.  I never tried Qobuz.  I will need to see what features it has.  Interesting comments on the streaming. Blue sound has a nice looking ripper/server. CD clutter is not ideal.  
So I’m I right to think that getting something like a Vault 2i from Bluesound (2tb network hard drive, cd ripper  and streamer) will get me fairly close (Not the same) to the sound of a good CD player? 
I don't know about the Bluesound unit specifically, but, an all-in-one ripper/storage/streamer should be able to deliver very good sound.  I personally would prefer something with more storage than 2 TB, and I prefer something that allows the CDs to be ripped to WAV files, but the Bluesound looks to be something to consider.  You will also need some kind of portable drive to back up the 2 TB internal hard drive so that you won't lose everything when the internal hard drive fails (an almost inevitable event over an extended period of time).

A dedicated streamer/server can be at least as good as a very good CD player or transport; the sound quality will be mainly dictated by the DAC you employ to turn the bits into music.
Get it all with an OPPO UDP-205 if you can find one, Buy it whatever the price is.
CD player.  I could not believe the difference between it and streaming Spotify premium.

You'll never look at streaming or downloads again, get your cherished dac fed the digital stream by this Cambridge Audio CXC CD Transport.
To me sounded THE BEST BANG FOR BUCK there is.
In Australia you can get them for $490aud new = $333usd.

Cheers George
The Oppo udp205 does not stream to my knowledge.

The Bluesound vault is an excellent budget unit that served me well for a couple of years, ripped all my cd collection into it and backed up to an external 2tb hdd. Let’s face it they are like $65 on eBay so cheap insurance.
And the vault will rip to flac or wav format, your choice.
I use Roon now but that is another story entirely.

btw the dv50s is a fantastic player, I own one. If you get the chance try a dvd-a on it. A Steven Wilson remastered King Crimson disc for example.
You will not want to give the dv50s back.......
I have been tweaking CDs for years and (if well recorded) CDs can sound awfully good. Recently starting to embrace the whole 'streaming thing' and I have to admit it has opened a whole new world of music and video. One thing I have discovered early on is the difference between streaming services. I started with Pandora and then compared it to Tidal HiFi. For an extra $10 a month it certainly seems worth it to me.  

I know there are a lot of Music Servers out there, but I have yet to see the real advantage of having one. Yes, you could get all of your music (and video) in one place, but with the ability to access virtually everything from 'the cloud', what really is the point?
All I know is Tidal demolishes my low-end-of-high-end CD apparatus. Same DAC, same preamp. My question would be, what would it cost you to improve on Tidal/Qobuz sound? Or if the question is functionality, are you running router with Ethernet cable direct to music player, no dongle? Because dongling off remote router gives you glitches. (Not the only cause, but certainly one of them. The better players are designed to accept ONLY Ethernet direct and I gather this is why).
I have a NAD C658.  (Streamer / DAC) combo.  Could I just plug a hard drive full of burned files into the back and expect the same quality sound of a CD player ?  
I recommend a Sony SCD 595 sacd/cd changer.Reviewed very highly.Reviewers thought it was better than the 777. I bought mine new for 199.00.Mine is still going strong over ten years.This is a multi channel unit that outputs DSD into my Marantz receiver’s analog inputs with all decoding being done by the Sony.The Marantz lets you play the sacd with no decoding from the receiver.I have played DSOM many times in 5.1 surround which is a real trip.
Wait a minute, you have a very capable DAC in that NAD so why don't you just rip cd's and play them off a network drive? You can also download hi-res files and play them at better than cd quality. I don't like your NAD's player interface, as I prefer my setup below:

HP laptop, Win7
JRiver Media Center
USB out
Mytek DAC

So, I would use your NAD as a DAC only, from my setup's USB output.

JRiver also has room correction but so does your NAD, to some degree. That goes a long way to better sound if you take the time to learn to do it right. You have so much flexibility with JRiver and sound quality is superb.

You said above you want the convenience of many songs on a DVD. Forget it and just play ripped files. FYI, my laptop and JRiver above cost $100 - can't beat that!

The 105 has a Tidal selection on its menu. You have to download the Oppo Media app onto your phone to operate 
In your price range I can recommend CAMBRIDGE AUDIO - CXU ($800) Decent player with five separate Wolfson WM8740 DACs on board and upsampling (Adaptive Time Filtering). upsamples all audio up to 24-bit/192kHz. “Pure Audio” mode could be used to disable all processes except those participating in audio reproduction - cool future, definitely benefits SQ. Wide range of Disc types: CD, SACD, Blu-ray (BD) including BD-3D, DVD, DVD-A, AVCHD, HDCD, Kodak Picture CD, CD-R/RW, DVD+-R/RW, DVD+-R DL, BD-R/RE. Good luck!
I have the NAD C658 and Cambridge Audio CXC using COAX.
Sound great through an original Peachtree Audio Nova (amp only) to SVS Ultra Towers and a small Outlaw Audio sub.  

I also use a ripper for my Mac but you could combine all this PLUS add music to another room with a Blusound Vault 2i (one of my next steps....). It would rip and store your CDs in WAV or AIFF (my preference) or any other format for playback on the C658 or whatever you have the Vault connected to (receiver, amp, powered speakers) or both simultaneously. 

Good luck!!

My two cents, you learned the wrong conclusion.  You are using a compressed streaming source, and who-knows-what DAC (you didn't say). Compared it to a high end CD player.
In general, all else equal,i prefer playing FLAC/ALAC files or streaming them (or HD of course) to playing plastic CDs.  And there are reasons this might be true.
Slow down, experiment, learn.
How do you get the Oppo BD 105 to stream Tidal?
You can use a Upnp control point that has access to Tidal (I use the Bubbleupnp app for that, select Tidal as library). The Oppo 105 acts as a Upnp renderer, that you can select in Bubbleupnp and stream music to it.
You might want to look at the Oppo products. The udp 205 has a high quality Sabre dac.
I agree.  Try TIDAL.  No noise and better sound quality.  If you really must have a CD/DVD player buy an OPPO.  Have fun getting up and down to change music.  I can play one or two tunes from TIDAL and then move onto the rest or build my own mix of songs.  
I have done comparisons between Esoteric DV-60 CD player, and Tidal, playing through Audirvana. As good as the Esoteric is,it comes up short. In fact,I am thinking about selling .
Spotify 320kbps can sound absolutely fantastic. The app is really user friendly so easy to explore new music and create and enjoy playlists.

 I get a very small delta streaming SOME  higher rez content  from qobuz but that delta maxed out at 24bit 96khz on my system.

What made a much much greater improvement than going up resolution to my streaming setup was getting an Etherregen to replace a cisco network switch. $660 improved the system from top to bottom, better bass, more detail, improved tone, leading edges and decay. My system imaged well before but the addition of the switch put the depth into my soundstage. I had already chased the noise floor lower with power conditioning and isolation tweaks. These were available on 30 day trial although covid has delayed the production due to availability of parts.

I think CDs can sound amazing but I only own a few dozen. Having millions of albums at your fingertips is a no brainer for me for the price of an LP a month.

I also get excellent SQ from YouTube and that's even lower quality but again what an incredible library of musical material at my fingertips and the visuals are added fun. 

Wait a minute, you have a very capable DAC in that NAD so why don’t you just rip cd’s and play them off a network drive?

Don’t burn CD’s they tax the "error correction" way to much, just look at the differences that a laser has try to read.
Left original stamped retail cd
Middle burnt gold blank cd
Right burnt aluminium blank cd

No wonder the burnt cd’s always sound brighter to many, there’s many more errors being fixed, and that’s just a 50% chance to get a 1 or a 0 correct, because an error is replaced by what was read before, and that’s a 50% chance to get it right. This is why many CD players won’t even play burnt cd’s as they can’t even read the TOC (table of contents)

Cheers George
The new Rotel flagship CD player is very,nice!

 Look at her.Cheers.

 I enjoy my cd and TT quite a lot!

only time I use my iPod is in my car or for background low volume listening.
learned my lesson. Even with the lossless stuff, the CD player always sounds better.

Another +vote for a CD/SACD player bettering streaming. Enjoy the Music.

Happy Listening!
I bought a cheap USB dac on eBay for 50 bucks (I now have 3 of them) and hooked them up to low-end chromebooks. Much better than the headphone jack. Is it better than my rega Apollo? No. Is it great for streaming Spotify, playlists, radio stations etc... while I'm cooking or any other non-critical listening? Absolutely!
Have a wicked pioneer elite dv-79avi!

 Rare silver unit!

 Will use when needed!

 Love the dv-79avi
 on screen controls if needed!
  Great sounding, high quality unit!

 Have the onkyo p-308 as preamp, amazing cond!
will use with a great amp for 3rd system!
Would someone please explain the references to "spinning silver"?  From the posts it sounds like people are distinguishing DVD discs from CD's by their silver color, but I've seen CD's with a silver surface, too.  Are the posts trying to say that DVD's inherently have better sound quality than CD's, or am I missing something?
This thread has gotten out of control. You people are animals.  Thanks for all the advice so far.  
Would someone please explain the references to "spinning silver"
Playing CD's that all!