Counterfeit Chinese Cables
I thought that I would write this for those who are curious about one of the many counterfeit Chinese interconnect cables that are available these days. I know that there have been threads about the subject before, and I was always curious because they seem to be such a bargain. I don't really recall much about what any members actually said about the performance of these counterfeit cables, and I didn't look back and do any research, but a couple of months ago there was a thread that came around to discussing the quality of Chinese made components, and oldhvymec said something that made sense to me.
He said that people that say that what they are making is junk should consider that much of what is in our gear, and a lot of our American brands are actually manufactured there. I decided shortly after that that I would take the chance on a set of interconnects, because I suspected that the interconnects going from my pre to my amp were the weak link and needed upgrading. The interconnects going from my DAC to my pre were Kimber Select which are very good, but the other set were LAT International (now defunct) which had cost $500.00 when new, but I had reason to believe they were lacking because I have one of their digital cables that turned out to be very poor sounding in comparison to others I own.
I decided on a one meter pair of counterfeit Nordost Odin interconnects for a total of $104.00 from Aliexpress. I received them a couple of weeks later. They appeared to be well made, and the locking fake WBT rca's were very impressive and are very tight.
First impressions after installing them were light, thin sound, lacking bass. Each couple of days brought improvements, but from the beginning I noticed that they were quieter. Now, weeks later, I can say that they are drastically better that the LAT's in every way. Detail and ambience are much better, but it's the focus and separation of instruments that is most noticeable.
I have no way of knowing if they are really a copy of the Nordost design, but I am impressed enough that I am going to try a counterfeit Nordost digital cable.
Obviously, this isn't a comparison that is useful to most, because there probably isn't anyone here using the LAT's, and everything is system dependent. I just wanted to relay my positive experience.
920 responses
As a very old timer started in audio in the mid 70s as a sales person, then store manager, eventually partner in Audio Tweakers. My partner had the $$$$$$ to buy whatever he wanted, including a dedicated listening room in his custom built house designed by an architect. It was an interesting experience to hear the cream of the cream on a regular basis, also he swapped gear and cables frequently. IMO, without a specific designed room, putting together a SOTA system is a crap shoot. My system for 3+ years now consists of; Audiolab 6000, Audio Alchemy DP-1 + PS 5, EVS 1200 or a LSA Voyager GaN 350 (both dual mono), and Emerald Physics 3.4s open baffle, no sub/s. Sadly I managed to blow one channel of the Voyager, so all wire upgrades have been with the EVS 1200, which continues to show how excellent this $2700 class D IcePower AS 1200s amp really is. And therein lies the dilemma for most hi-end enthusiasts, not realizing cables can make or break a system, and so they get trapped in a revolving door of swapping components, when most likely the issue is the room, then the cables and wires hth |
I'm not surprised. They clearly show you a cutaway of how their cables are constructed, and the materials that are used, which is not the norm. One thing that really impresses me is that their RCA's are all copper, not brass. Most importantly, they really let the music through. I think that we're all tired of hearing that this or that cable "blew away" another without a description of what is actually so good. I am sure that there are digital RCA cables that better this somewhere, but the price is likely far more. From treble to bass, this cable lets all of the color, texture and dynamic impact in the music through, more so than any other digital cable I have used, and the price for what you get is ridiculously low. |
@questforhifi and Roxy I noticed when I saved an item but not buy it, that the price would drop significantly over time Roxy, I bought the Yangsane coax ( Pouch says Yangsane) Grey Knight High Fidelity OCC Silver Plated Coaxial SPDIF Subwoofer RCA TV HD Audio Cable 75 Ohm Digital Audio Decoder Cable ~ $9 including shipping. Truely amazing, bettering my fake Odin 2, and Odin 2 Gold coaxes I will order their XLR to compare to my Odin 2 Gold |
I have recommended the Xangsane brand before (available on Aliexpress), and they are not a counterfeit of anything. A few weeks ago, I ordered and received this silver digital cable that I had been looking at for a while. I had already had the silver interconnects for a while and been mor than happy with them. The same goes for this. If you are looking for a superior digital cable and you aren't rich, this cable is very well made and sounds great. It is well balanced from top to bottom as well as very organic and dynamic. Pay no attention to the "subwoofer cable" in the title. If I had looked closer sooner, I would have bought it sooner. That's just Chinese language error. Digital Audio Spdif Subwoofer Cable | Coaxial Digital Audio Output Cable - Silver - Aliexpress |
@rwclay : I use anticables for my speaker cables. I also use their zero autoformers between my tube amps and my Magnepans. Great products. Are you using their ICs..? I’m interested in trying them out. |
Very wise advice and no moral judgement about specific people here ...Thanks... We must be very cautious about counterfeit tools, vehicles, amplifier, etc indeed ... What about a counterfeit high designer "tie" now and calling someone who bought it knowingly "immoral" ? I will not judge anyone ...It is too easy ... I prefer a wise advice as spawn350 just gave one ... By the way i never bought costly cables , counterfeit or not; acoustics and my own experience taught me that the difference between cables when it exist is minimalistic compared to any embeddings controls ...
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Admission: I didn't read through the 17 pages. POV: I've been into many hobbies that have had Chinese counterfeiters infiltrate. One is cycling. I knew a guy that bought a counterfeit Specialized bike frame. It looked exactly like the real thing, and he had guessed that it was made at the same plant that they make the official Specialized frames and he was basically getting the real-deal, but without the manufacturer and dealer profit margins and warranty costs baked in. On a fast downhill in the first month, the frame folded like a lawn chair, and he now has several fake teeth. I've seen umpteen similar failures in a number of industries of fakes (though none involving lost teeth). So, what could happen with the same defects in cables? Nothing? Bad sound? Blown speakers or electronics? Fire? Seeing the catastrophic failures of other counterfeit products, I am not going to risk my equipment or house. I'd rather use cheap cables that are fully tested from a reputable company, than knockoffs. |
It SEEMS so true what you just said... So true...😊 But once this is said ... How about the patents on the human genomes by Gates and others and how about patenting the seeds and after that being able to sold them after to the "poors" of africa erasing their traditional way of living and destroying their traditional seeds ? Legal dont means legitimate , it seems ... So argued Vandana Shiva from India😁 Patent is legal not always legitimate ... For sure cable patent are not seeds patent ...But we discuss about patents in general here because you just claim that science will stop without "patents" ... I dont think so myself by the way ...but i cannot enter this matter here ... Without patent the so useful research about viruses by corporations will go away for sure and many others criminal stranglehold by corporations on all aspects of life... Who control the "patent" office by the way ? And what about the patent on A. I. by corporations more powerful than nations ? In the same way, if someone cannot afford "the patent" price, nor the "patented" product then he cannot eat, or afford the price of education, nor he cannot be cured ; We must stay legal and patent must be respected or all the progress wheel will stop ... But this wheel of progress turn for the benefit of whom now ? Is it really true that without "patent" the wheel of progress will stop ? Is it not instead the way we understand "profit" which will be modified ? Research will not stop ... Just questions i throw, because i am not so sure about this claim validity...And some here are so sure not only about patents as they are legally constituted (a legitimate status versus his official legal status) but they are so sure about the moral status of everybody here in a very clear classification ...😁 I must be a confused mind or are they simplistic mind ?... 😊 My questions are here but it is better for me not to judge anybody ... I dont see myself too my own beam when reading about the straw in their eyes... I was thinking aloud...
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You are right for sure....Completely right ...
Once this is said, with a so clear conscience and a well behaved and a clairvoyant one , no doubts, how do you sleep
with peace in your own bed ?
May i remember all the list of crimes going on all around the world right now who appear justified for one conscience and not so well justified for another ?
And how about this case :
I spoke one time with a rich person a customer in the same bookstore as me in 1976 , a very rich one, who with me assisted to the stealing of a book , by a young student who was catched on the spot near us , a very poor one , and this very rich person judged the thief very harshly indeed ... It was the same discourse as yours .... the book value was very high in the philosophy section and i thought for myself that nobody steal a philosophy book to resell it, it is like a piece of bread, you steal it because you need it and you are dying of hunger to read it and cannot afford it ...I am pretty sure it was the case ...It is anyway a thief here no doubt ...
How do you judge this poor student? Do you judge it as hashly as those who buy audio cables with a fraud name written on them ? Do you judge the student as the rich customer judge him very harsly on the spot who himself can buy anything , I am curious ...
Did you sleep well the day were some government lied and killed hundred of thousand of people ? What about that ? What about your own mirror the day after the killings? Did you clearly had denounced this government of crimes against humanity at least on some forum ?
And now how about the "crimes" of Julian Assange ?
These four different exemples reveal to us as hard for a wise man could be judging others as hard it is in reality ;and how easy it could be too for some others wise men to pass judgement ...
So easy that they will sleep well after passing their judgement because they are so right ...And they can be ...
Now how about a much less clear and less evident case of POSSIBLE stealing, lying, manipulating ,killing and abuse of power by authorities as in the last three years ?
How did you, with your very elevated mind and conscience, acted about it and how do you judge the different perpetrators ? it is not an easy case but it can be a clear one for many people though not so clear for many others...
The most deep and pragmatic judgement i ever read was in the scriptures, and i am not "religious" at all; it was the parable about the beam and the straw :
Jesus says: "The straw that is in thy brother’s eye, though seest; but the beam that is in thine own eye, thou seest not! When thou hast cast out the beam that is in thine own eye, then thou wilt see to cast out the straw from thy brother’s eye."
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@mr_bill ...Certainly *S*,,,OFC 12g. copper generally, gauge decreasing with load. KIStech....variations induce...well, variations. *shrug* I look at it as a subtle form of eq which some prefer. Given the variety of matches 'twixt amps and drivers, not a big surprise...*s* Amp&Driver....sounds like an 'phile 'zine to moi'.... ;) *L* "The MegaStat 10Ks' put an Immense stress on the the Mysterio Snakelines, but they performed ecstatically, even while slapping the carpet like an Aussie earthworm on LSD.." (We've not got to That, yet....but, I'm patient... 😏) @mahgister ... ;) ...to the tune of 'Noel'...since Xmas is already underfoot, along with the 50% off 12' skeleton yard displays and inflatable turkeys....( I wish I could be kidding...🙄) but lacking the last 2 lines of the chorus.... Current: "Oh well, oh, 'ell... (2x)," "What might be expressed in the 'midst of 'No!, 'ell!" ...I'll work on the rest of the song....have the gent that did "Run Away to Mars" sing it....(great voice, there...)... "3,2,1...I miss you.... Sorry, I've got issues...." ...and ludacrous hopes... 😏 *L* I like your prose...beats cable flagellation to the tune of 16 pg. ...and Winter drops in with it's big boots... Yours, J
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It seems an awful lot of people are ok with stealing, as they justify it with a number of ethical and moral gymnastics. Outsmarting right vs. wrong is laughable. They're thieves, plain and simple. Anyone who knowingly assists the thieves in profiting from their crimes is no better, no matter how much BS they shovel on their actions to try hiding the truth. It's amoral. Stealing is stealing, whether it's a penny or a million dollars. You took something that didn't belong to you without permission. If you find that behavior acceptable, simply because a particular instance benefits you, your morals are for sale. That means you have none. Anyone who is offended by hearing that should be more offended by the face in the mirror. I would rather be poor and honest. My conscience wouldn't have it any other way. |
I dont know much , especially facing many people here who are very knowledgeable... I am only trained for the best and the worst in relating facts and ideas... I came here for friendship , even short term , or spontaneous , and i did not entertain grudges... I react sometimes in the wrong way and i love too much discussion for its own sake... i thank you for your good words and i always feel pleasure to read you here with us ... Your humor compensate for my heavy prose ...
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I’m pretty simple, actually.... ...it's too short of a life....esp. for now.... 👌 |
It's rather off-putting when the 'cable topic' (or whatever is being discussed, dis'd, or cussed over) that the tendency is to turn on each other... 😒😔 @mahgister I can appreciate your somewhat more 'classical education' in that it gave you a broader view and scope to allow the potential to strike out into further 'realms'. Additional languages allow one to have a different POV, rather than being locked into ones' native tongue... Lucky you...I'll admit to a tang of jealousy on that....*G*👍 I've tried in my own wayward way to look through the oil on the surfaces to have a mindset of a more fluid fashion....perhaps it shows in my anguish english and outright abuse of it. *L* ....sometimes....the penchant for wrangling over the differences of perception of the varied means and methods of enjoying (or not) drives me more into 'the silence of the keys'. Or the desire to make a pointed 'comment' that would further brand me an odd sort of troll/miscreant.... I don't know everything...and personally, thankfully, proud of it. Otherwise, hanging 'round A'gon....would be the needle-less haystack. When it's good, it's very good....brilliant at times. When sunk to rancor and attacks.... " And the boy who kicked Tom's head in I was far too scared to hit him |
@roxy54 You are, sir confirming and proving my points like no one else I’ve ever socialized with, but I don’t blame you -- It’s corporations that made your education so incomplete and unestablished. Those who think that they can get an idea about the world from the news at their finger tips are extremely delusional exactly just like you roxy. After all, it's never late to learn especially if you've done it sometime before at least once. |
Today the mind is closed ONLY if we choose to close it ourself... I never traveled in my life ...😊 And was not tempted too because all my money was in books and music ... The world of news is at the tip of our fingers... I can read anything about anything and i do ... Those who are closed minds are such by free choice ...It is easier to be mind closed ... My best to you and my apology if i was rude because i misunderstood your post it seems ...
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...At 14 years of age(8th grade), I've started basic calculus as part of my general education in Soviet Union. At 21 years of age, I moved to USA and noted that 8th-graders are just learning arithmetic operations over fractions that I've learned in the 2nd grade. At 18 years of age, I thought and still think that I would never be able to bear the load Chinese students bear when I visited Shanghai -- the City of Lights. Their learning material especially on maths and physics a LOT bigger than in SU. Those US citizens that never seen anything outside, should start thinking |
There is no doubts that North American education is a catastroph... I am 72 years of age... When young at 13 years of age we studied history, litterature and languages... I learn english,french,greek and latin...Basic phonetic and linguistic... And i learn basic history related to these four cultures and general civilization history... At fourteen we had dissertation of minimum 5 pages to make each week about the difference of architectural style and painting and music and in litterature from medieval times to the modern era , one great writers after the others in 6 big manuals... In each text of these books we were in the obligation to answer each question of each texts by writing and debating it orally once a week in opposite side with arguments then learning applied logic and rhetoric ...We learn geography,chemistry basic, biology and dissection , and physics... I had zero in mathematics and english at this age 😊 because i was not interested , but when it interested me at 19 years old i learned it in english books by myself ..... Number theory and advance set theory ...Now i can explain to you Godel theorem meaning or the difference between set theory and category theory or topos theory ... .I studied linguistic as a hobby because of my college years ... Today college education is a complete lost of time ... People learn to use a phone which is now the computer for the mass ... Modern education was settled by corporate lobbies interests one century ago because the average citizen was determined to be no more than a specialized slave worker not an enlightened citizen ... Then it was not necessary to teach synthesis in an interdisciplinary perspective and intuition and freedom at all ... I will stop here ...
Now instead of being an old grumpy man remembering his past i will be optimist : Young people today had all the world at the finger tips... They can learn by themselves how to free themselves even from the criminal corporations ... Then even if my education was more litterate , i was not necessarily freer from other conditioning... Each times has its own challenge ... But it is clear that today we must give an education that will favor the grounding of man in nature and freedom ... Transhumanists sect is very powerful and dangerous ...
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We are talking about SIZE of the learning material given per discussed nation. I think language pro should know how to grab the main idea of discussion right? That size does matter and contributes to the quality of an engineer or any professional. In India or China it’s at least twice the size of USA which dictates to study it at least twice as hard if not harder. Nearly same applies to Japan Speaking about Africa and size of the learning material nearly approaching to zero, didn’t you get what I mean???
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Well, @roxy54 It all depends on quality of engineers. The volume of the LEARNING material in Chinese or Indian schools is a LOT bigger than such in Western schools and it's really not about quantity at all. Most American engineering schools have TRAINING material, not LEARNING. Same applies to medical schools unfortunately.
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Canada had the same problem than America, the economy became an artefact completely out of any ground, there is no more common good only profit , and the education is in the gutter , only slave worker for corporation are needed than minimal education and too specialized too young ... Quebec missed his historical moment in 1976 ...After that without the creativity of the greatest ambition Quebec became no more the nation it dreamed to be but a small province in a derelicted country because there is no more leadership in Canada either as in America for a long time ... And it seems the world was missing his historical moment right now ... I keep my optimism though but not by reading the news ... 😁
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@mahgister , I was recently in your country (in Montreal) meeting with a customer. Most of your high quality engineers are immigrant stock. The issue is labor rates in the US, Canada, etc....If a natural born Canadian plumber or a hvac repair guy or some landscaper installing goofyass french drains can make more than an engineering PhD, why the hell would he go through all the insane trouble of going through PhD courework? The pay grade for the savants of society is indeed terrible. It's the immigrant pool that largely keeps these countries afloat w.r.t technical excellence. |
Yes i am french speaking.... it is why my english writing is so clumsy and limited in vocabulary ... I apologize for that.... And what was you career choice bigtwin ? Myself i was not very gifted i was going with my life reading and teaching about books reading ... Picking the right book is an art ...
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@mahgister I considered the career path of a Stationary Engineer, but couldn't see a life spent writing greeting cards. 😆 You reference La Belle Province. Are you a fellow Canadian? |
Thanks for the date precision and observations... This does not change the crux of the matter... By the way in Quebec too there was a decline in general education of the elite ... And the elite matter in the population... Same for Canada with variation ... Internet has replaced our brain , no i am mistaken there is no need for a computer a phone is enough for brain ...
Creativity is related to questionning... All internet is censored and all education is controlled as medecine is no more a free art but a controlled big pharma slavery... Any doctor questionning anything will loose everything ... This is an example ... We are now in the brink of a war .... Why ? Low level education increasing for the last 60 years is the main cause for me.... No more elite no journalism no litterate thinking ...Corporations, all criminals , win... Population control is an art easy to practice now with no only the TV but the internet on a phone and tomorrow inside the brain ... Many scientist and thinkers even claimed that free will dont exist... They are no more even able to think what means the expression free will ... Astounding!
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@mahgister How many Canadian engineers? Also the us population is not 333,2888,000. Your data is suspect also; This data is from 2005 and I think your numbers high for the US. ASSESSING UNDERGRADUATE ENGINEERINGVarious articles in the popular media, speeches by policy-makers, and reports to Congress have stated that the United States graduates roughly 70,000 undergraduate engineers annually, whereas China graduates 600,000 and India 350,000. Even the National Academies and the U.S. Department of Education have cited these numbers. Such statements often conclude that because China and India collectively graduate 12 times more engineers than does the United States, the United States is in trouble. The remedy that typically follows is for the United States to graduate more engineers. Indeed, the Democrats in the House of Representatives in November 2005 proposed an Innovation Agenda that called for graduating 100,000 more engineers and scientists annually. RATHER THAN TRYING TO MATCH THEIR DEMOGRAPHIC NUMBERS AND COST ADVANTAGES, THE UNITED STATES NEEDS TO FORCE COMPETITORS TO MATCH ITS ABILITY TO INNOVATE. But we suspected that this information may not, in fact, be totally accurate. In an analysis of salary and employment data, we did not find any indication of a shortage of engineers in the United States. Also, we obtained anecdotal evidence from business executives doing business in India and China that indicated that those were the countries with shortages. To obtain better information about this issue, we embarked on a project to obtain comparable engineering graduation data from the United States, China, and India. U.S. graduation statistics are readily available from the Department of Education’s National Center for Education Statistics. Extensive data on engineering education are also collected by the American Society for Engineering Education and the Engineering Workforce Commission. In order to collect similar data for China and India, we initially contacted more than 200 universities in China and 100 in India. Chinese universities readily provided aggregated data, but not detail. Some Indian universities shared comprehensive spreadsheets, but others claimed not to know how many engineering colleges were affiliated with their schools or lacked detail on graduation rates by major. In the case of China, we eventually obtained useful data from the Ministry of Education (MoE) and, most recently, from the China Education and Research Network (CERN). In India, we obtained data from the National Association of Software and Service Companies (NASSCOM) and the All India Council for Technical Education (AICTE). |
Russia population : 143,556,000 Engineers each year : 454,436
United states population : 333,2888,000 Engineers each year : 237,826
Iran population : 88.551.000 Engineers each year : 233,695
Now Iran produce as much engineers as Russia in spite of half the population size , but almost 4 times more engineers than the US as Russia did...
What do you think of the education in America now ?
In India and in China now they start to educate but their population is huge to feed and educate but slowly they will exceed America on all counts in Education not only scientific education but history and other matters which means nothing in North America now...
Ask Hollywood how many movies they created about the Byzantine roman empire ? A more than a great part of our own history and civilization for a millenia ...
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@jtcf I suspect you are correct about having the Ali cable first and then moving on to the Silversmith. That's why I hypothesised that my lack of the wow moment could be the fact I have always started with quality cables. Cheers. |
@bigtwin What you just posted about the Furutechs is exactly why cables seem to make a huge difference.If you had the Ali Furutechs for a few years initially then tried the Silversmiths you may have been thrilled at the improvement. I do believe that often when some of us come across something that elevates our listening pleasure, we become enthusiastic and come here to share the joy with fellow hobbyists. Our families and friends aren't interested, lol. The only OMG moment I've experienced with a cable is with a power cable on my amp(American made).I tried Cardas and Nordost ics from Ali out of curiosity and they both were very good but not perfect for me. |