You should get Dual LP changer to add to your main joy and pride system. |
You should have served more liquor,, much more. |
Everybody has different priorities in their lives and what is a passion for one person means nothing to someone else. Whether it is audio, cars, clothes, food, homes etc, people look at the world differently. When people see my system, they might make a comment or wonder why someone would do this. Music has always been a core to my spirit and that is outside of other people. What I will say is that anymore who has any disposable income for anything should feel very lucky and very grateful. There are many people out there who are worrying about having food on the table or a roof over their heads. In addition, many people do not have their mental or physical health and in that circumstance none of these material things mean anything. We are not entitled to anything and many people out there struggle much more than thinking about what cable would better compliment their amp. Enjoy the hobby and dont worry about what anyone else thinks. It should not be ego oriented but more enjoyment oriented. Just my thoughts. Stephen |
Markpao, why don't you post your systems ?
I am sure you would have a better chance of getting a positive response here, among fellow enthusiasts. |
hi orpheus:
there's nothing like a good debate about equipment to sharpen your mind. remember keep your brain in shape. a good argument where you have to think on your feet is beneficial. look at your carping audiophile critics as a positive experience instead of a negative one. you can always humor them or laugh.
send them to me. i'll take care of them. |
To hell with those who have no food or shelter. They got what they and their predecessors deserve. But I agree that spending more than $50k on stereo is a complete idiocy any angle you look at it from. |
$50K is the mark huh. Call me an idiot. |
Someday I will upgrade my Bose for B&O :) |
You see, this is not about calling names, it is about common sense. And I meant $50k used, that would be $100k new. Also, this doesn't mean that I wouldn't want to spend more than $50k if I could; I would just know that it would be idiocy at its best. There might be exceptions, of course, but your room should be very big, more like a small concert hall, then $50k would not be enough. |
Inna I am glad you have this hobby all figured out based on room size and common sense. Gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. |
My little son often get frustrated when the girl he likes would not follow him to his bunch of bionicles he built. Does this hobby create infantility? |
Don't be disappointed, you're time and energy was invested for your pleasure. Serious music listeners would have recognized the difference in sound quality of your tube system. It's not your fault that these particular folks have a limited sense of discernment and probably do not do serious listening. You know the old saying, you can bring the horse to the water, but you can't make it drink. |
Horses got big heads but not much for brains .I heard it several times and it has been documented , that horses when in panic,they run back in their burning stables to their death after they have been rescued from the fire .This phenomenon occurs mostly at night fires. |
If I was a movie director, I think this is the time I would say "CUT"!! |
hi cyclonicman:
please don't confuse lack of interest with lack of discernment. a person can detect a difference between quality of things, without being interested.
its a matter of priorities. where the priority is high, one will be more dilligent, where priority or interest is low, one may be more superficial in one's evaluation or not be concerned of the difference.
the fact the sound is not important to mnay people or the fact that the size, clarity, or color of a video image is of little concern, where someone would be content to view a movie on a less than clear or lifelike color image does not imply a deficit in intelligence or dicsrnment, but is rather an expresion of taste or lack thereof.
this aapplies to food as well, wher someone is content to eat a hamburger and does not desire a more expensive cut of meat.
the more expensive steak, e.g, is easily recognizable but someone may not care to eat it.
in general, one who does not strive for the best is not always ignorant of what the best is. |
Mrtennis your points are valid but if am confused it is only because the guests did remark about the "good music" from the B&O system. This led me to believe that they were interested and appreciate good sound quality. Perhaps I am mistaken and they were referring to the musical piece itself as "good music" and not the system. The post is really not about my perception and I am not putting anyone down. My intention was to uplift the poster, Mark, because he felt insulted and disappointed and I have been there myself. Perhaps maybe his guests weren't interested as you say. I may be wrong, but I tend to think that like myself, Mark also read into their comments that they were interested in high quality audio. He sounds like a gracious host and tried to turn them on to a higher quality tube system that he probably has taken a lot of time and effort to put together. What's the result?, sounds like his efforts were not appreciated and quietly rebuffed. It doesn't sound to me like Mark was beating his guests over the head with this. I understand what you are saying and it seems to me like you are a person that sees both sides of the coin. The truth is that neither you or I were there so based on the post, I am siding with Mark. It just seems to me that interested or not, it really doesn't take that much effort to be polite. |
The only people interested in how good your high end Hifi sounds are people with high end Hifi's. |
I think every audiophile has had this experience. It's one of the reasons I scoff when bloggers or hifi mag writers talk about rejuvenating the hobby by exposing people to great systems. I had this exact debate with Robert Harley via email. He is convinced that people can be converted to high end audiophiles by simple exposure to a good system. Not true and anyone that has demoed their great system for the unwashed masses knows this is a fallacy. Appreciating a good hifi is a skill that must be learned over time. It probably also requires certain brain chemistry/characteristics.
People just don't even know what they are hearing, and they typically don't care. Only once have I had the experience where my friend was blown away by my system and in that case he was a former music student and concert pianist and a genuine music lover. He "got it" from day one. Everyone else does not get it. My wife must be dragged in kicking and screaming to listen to one song.
But I don't blame people for this lack of appreciation. There are lots of hobbies I don't appreciate.
It is a shame and I empathize with the OP. Most of use would love to share our pride and joy systems with people that would enjoy them.
That's one thing that's great about the internet, but unfortunately we cannot hear other's systems, only see them. |
again, don't sell people short. they may be able to distinguish good from bad sound, but they probably don't care. and as i said that aplies to other material things. |
Some guests could be more polite, that's for sure, even if they can't hear a thing. It's not really about audio. |
I agree with Jaxwired. I think only some people are cut out for this hobby. The rest are fine with ipods. I believe that alot of people can appreciate the increase in quality after being exposed to a fine system but it may take a long time. Some notice it before others...and a select few dont ever notice it. This tells me that the way our brains process sound has alot to do with whether an increase in quality increases pleasure. My best friend was really skeptical at first and claimed that he didnt notice that much difference. After teaching him more about the different characterists of sound (soundstaging, imaging, tonal balance, layering etc etc) he started to really catch on. Today he has put together his own system and classifies himself as an audiophile. He is now able to analysis a change in my system almost as well as i can. We are 22. My issue is that many "possible audiophiles" are not being exposed to excellent sound like they used to. Therefor there does seem to be some ignorance when it comes to sound in my generation. |
Good quality sound is readily available everywhere at low volume levels.
People need to get over the fact that the entire industry has caught up with the 60's audiophile crowd (who at that time had a huge advantage over everyone else).
Today, I get great sound in the car and great sound from my desktop Genelec Active speakers when connected to my iPhone and playing 128 KBPS files (even cheap digital setups sound darn good compared in a way that cheap analog never did). I could even get great sound for much cheaper - a pair of Audioengine 5's for example.
What I am saying is that great sound is readily available to the masses!!!
And, you ain't going to impress any guest unless you can significantly trump what is easily available to everyone.
IMHO, the only way you will impress people is through a demonstration of high quality sound at live concert levels. This is where major differences can still be found between ordinary systems that sound like crap as soon as you increase the volume and audiophile quality reference systems. A high quality system that is capable of sounding like a live drum set will always amaze people because all ordinary systems give you nothing but distortion at anything approaching the proper levels of live instruments.
If you want guests to be impressed then I would suggest upgrading your equipment (primarily speakers). If you don't care what guests think then quit moaning. |
I tend to agree with Shadorne.
Good sound at low volumes is passe with most these days.
Most people do not care about really excellent sound and those who do seldom agree on what's best anyhow. So what's the point?
Loud and clear is more impressive! Especially in a big room!
Except if it is too loud you cannot converse with the guests so that does not work.
That model fits my experiences. |
Larry's Audio Rule Number 1:
NEVER buy audio gear to try to impress anyone...it's a solitary or 'another audiophile' pursuit only. Any thoughts to the contrary only cause frustration and confusion.
Scene 1
"Hey guys look at my new stereo..."
reaction---
"Nice, hey you got any beer?"
They simply can't/won't/don't/will never, ever appreciate it...you're wasting your time.
Invite an audiophile/music lover next time.
Good listening...listen to Renee Olstead and stare at the album cover! lol
Larry |
Markpao
One thing for sure as Larsky states above, your audio system is for you, all you can do is share the music, never the system. no one cares. I never even bring it up when guests come over unless they show an interest.
The ONLY audio product that elicited interest from almost anyone that saw it, not the music, the product itself was the McIntosh MC-60's I was using, something about that black and chrome and the exposed valves always caught everyone's eye. Even my Supratek Syrah which is beautiful garners only casual coments typically when it is glowing in the evening and the lights are low. The comment is typically something on the order of "whats that thing" or to that effect. When explained that it is a pre-amp for my music system that is pretty much where the discussion typically ends.
B&O make beautiful, stylish audio components, asthetically pleasing especially to women. Don't be insulted because their priorities aren't the same as yours. |
Impress people with loudness? I understand what you mean but just simply stepping out and getting some 1000 dollar used Vandersteen 2ce sigs's, a 900 mccormack, and a 600 CJ pre and replacing a bose lifestyle is night and day. Thats good sound vs exceptional sound. They are far between. |
Except if it is too loud you cannot converse with the guests so that does not work. If you can converse then it is just background music, For a jaw-dropping five minute demo it needs to be a lot more dynamic than people have ever heard from a home system. |
are people so insecure that they want or need to impress ?
what difference does it make to the owner of material things if people are or are not interested in them ?
a friendship need not be based on shared interests in material things, but rather a genuine liking for the person. |
Shadorne: I can agree such reference dynamics cannot be ignored even from the untrained ear. |
being gifted is not equivalent to being interested. many children have a musical talent but don't want to develop it. |
You know it is really funny when I read this thread. As I note in many of the comments above about this hobby of ours the comments are really LESS about music than it is the hobby itself, the sound, the gear etc. This is perfectly evidenced by the OP question at hand which is essentially why don't people want to share the "music" when the emphasis is really on listening to the system and the sound that it make. It seems the folks were perfectly happy with the music playing through the B&O, not the sound of the music.
I can't imagine more than a given few that give a rats ass how a system sounds and even if they do the amount of attention among a group of intelligent adults having a get together is not going to center around a focused "sit down" listening to music, it just doesn't ever happen in my experience. Really think about what you expect. You don't want to force your guests to be bored to death, do you?
I suggest if you REALLY want to get that kind of focused listening get together invite them to a live concert instead. It has a better chance of leading them into coming home and listening to some music. That might open the door maybe, but don't hold your breath they might just ask it you wouldn't mind turning on the telly to watch "American Idol". |
For so long now, we have all been reading articles about the death of audio as a hobby. We have to save the hobby! We have to find a way to get our younger listeners to appreciate a high end setup. We have to expose other people to the hobby! Exactly how is that done? If nobody cares then it's inevitable, the hobby will die!! It seems to me that many posters on this thread have found a way to avoid even attempting to do this because maybe they got the shaft like Mark. I say that people do care, otherwise this hobby would have died a long time ago. Turning someone on to music played on High End equipment is an act of sharing and spiritualism. It's not always a case of wanting to impress anyone with your equipment, it can be that you just want to turn on a friend/stranger/music lover/by presenting them with an opportunity for a better musical experience. |
Maybe if you had insisted that your friends just sit down and take a listen to your main rig things would have turned out differently. Maybe not. Occasionally you get the 'right' reaction. An old friend of mine is visiting for a few months and she came over. She's a music lover and she said yes when I offered to 'show off' my system. She couldn't get over what she was hearing. She went on and on and was so appreciative of the quality of it all. I had a proud audiophile moment. Some people will tell you it sounds good but theyr'e very bland and understated about it. There's no enthusiasm. Not with this friend. |
I just added a third system. A Squeezebox radio with a pair of 30 year old Realistic Nova 45 headphones.
It replaced an alarm clock on the lamp table next to the bed.
Hey, the sound here is really good!
Its a sharp looking little gadget! Top notch WAF.
Ipods are pretty spiffy looking also and sound pretty good to most.
Given how relatively inexpensive and easy it is to get at least decent sound these days, I think the shock factor of a newbie seeing some of the rigs on this site would be the biggest conversation piece, more than how good the systems sound. |
I remember when I was a kid, my first stereo was a Motorola all in on record player with fold out speakers.
Then, as a young teen, I got my first real stereo, for $200 an all in one Sanyo with radio, ceramic cart phono, tape, and speakers, a big step up, but still not really close to the best hi fi of teh day.
Then, finally, going into college, I got a good deal on some real hi fi, Lafayette Criterion integrated and tuner, speakers with Heil Air Motion Transformer, and a Technics belt drive table with MM Pickering cart. A true jump towards hifi. It impressed the other kids (mostly male) in my college dorm so much that they all to come into the shop I worked at then and I sold them their rigs.
Impressing anybody with hi fi has been all downhill since then. I mostly gave up a long time ago. I will show someone my stuff and give them a listen if they ask, but that's about it. |
Mark
I could tell a similar story about having friends over for dinner and opening a very expensive bottle of Pinot from Oregon.. little appreciation for it.
People need to build up to things like that to understand and appreciate. The big sound stage can really intimidate new bees. Overwhelm them. |
Different strokes for different folks. You just have to keep some people away from bright, shiny objects as they are too easily confused.
It never ceases to amaze me how an identical recording can sound so different going through different stereos. So much for The Absolute Sound. |
why do audiophiles seem so surprised when others have no interest in sound quality ?
for many it is not a priority, just as expensive cars or expensive clothes are for people who can afford them. |
I realize this is unique to each Audiogon member but while looking at "My Threads" the last 7 days these titles (with a bit of my own text in between) lined up: Hey guys, What's on your turntable tonight? Well, it was pretty much a Disappointing Evening for me because I kept seeing my Woofer sucking in and out all during the music session. Anyone have suggestions for Mac repair in Dallas area? I ask my next door neighbor but he just shrugged his shoulders and said, Do you feel lucky, Punk? Well do ya? |
Most non audiophiles are not interested in hi end audio at all . I've had similar experiences , if fact almost all people that walk past my system don't even seem to notice it . |
In summing up what others have said, the system in our family room is lower than "low fi". I have intended to upgrade it since we moved in 10 yrs ago; but every time we have family and friends over, there are three different conversations plus a movie going at the same time. No one inquires, or even looks in the den. You would think there was an anaconda in the den. That's what everyone thinks about my "high end" stereo. |
I gave up trying to impress anyone with my great stereo!After looking at my system ,one person commented ,I have a Bose wave that probably sounds just as good as your system,and cost a lot less!People in general,,will spend a ton of money on cars,shoes,video games,computers,,,,but cringe at the thought of spending more than a couple hundred on a sound system!,I enjoy it,,and thats all that matters! |
I am tired of hearing about WAF and women having different priorities. It's a cliché that a lot of male "audiophiles" keep up. Why? I don't know, maybe they only know specific types of women for a reason. The fact is that most people don't care about good sound but the music itself and can't separate the sound from the music. This requires active listening and that can only be done as a singular activity. Most people's ears are not trained for this, they don't have the patience, are just not interested, or there are other reasons. And if we are talking about 95% of the population who doesn't care that also includes 95% of men. I know as many men as women who could never get excited about the gear. Any audiophile women out there who have a HAF or BAF problem? |
Audiophile woman married to non-audiophile man, someone who couldn't care less about this stuff? She made a poor choice so she is bound to have many problems and "acceptance factors". |
Mrtennis,
"are people so insecure that they want or need to impress ?"
You were being sarcastic with this question right? You weren't serious...tell me/us you really were kidding, right?
The human existence is a continual series of 'how to impress', whether its a car, a new dress, special make up, hair plugs, lyposuction, botox injections, a new fence, a new pool, a pool table, special wheels, losing ten pounds to fit into 34" waist again, (almost there)a new Jag, (best friend), naming a company after yourself,(guilty) buying artwork that, after a bit, like everything else, you don't even notice, using a smoother voice when you know it's a really good looking girl calling, sucking in your stomach when she first sees you, standing up straight, to show that you're actually 6'1", spending a long time picking out glasses.
Our (almost) entire economy is based on impressing others.
My question is, who DOESN'T?
Good listening,
Larry |
my intent was neither sarcastic nor to be funny.
what i am saying is obvious. it's unfortunate that someone feels the need to impress someone.
i don't have such a need.
i am more inner directed and less other directed.
the superficial is most unimportant.
it is a matter of priorities in life. |
Mrtennis, if you didn't have "such a need" you would not have written what you did. Think about it.
We all have this need. |
Someone sounds like a school kid trying to impress a girl. With my middle age bulge and all, I have young girls flirt with me at the beach (lake/ocean), hotel pool, when I'm just in my swim suit. They don't know what I drive, bank account, etc. If we only could live our life like the older show called Boeing-Boeing. LOL. |
We live in a material world, that doesn't mean it's bad. It's for us to enjoy and it's truly what you make it, good or bad. As Lrsky has stated, we are all human and with that comes a lot of shortcomings. Pretending that we are above it all is not spirituality, but pretense. One man believes that he is sharing, while another perceives that he is trying to impress. |
i don't have the need to impress. i am more concerned about mywn thoughts about something than other people's opinion of my posessions, appearance, or ideas.
i am not easily influenced by others unless they can argue logically and offer a basis for their positions.
i tend not to pay too much attention to trivia, or tv shows or movies.
i'm not stylish and tend to be a bit sloppy.
i don't understand why so many people are so concerned what others think of them. |
