Handling Heavy Amps

I’m not as experienced with amps as most on here, and I’m still lifting heavy shite, but…

I’m running a Rogue dragoN class D now and the sound is excellent with what I have feeding it.  I used to run a B&K (A/B?)which still sounds excellent.  I’ve also listened extensively to a D’Agostino momentum and I’m not the least bit dissatisfied with the dragoN.  FWIW

@carlsbad2 Hi, no it’s Class A, NOT Class B. Maybe 95F rather than frying an egg on my output transformer of my Class A tube EAR 890s.

The Rei amplifier distinguishes itself through the implementation of WestminsterLab’s proprietary iBias and CCS systems, which have significant electronic implications. With these technologies, the Rei achieves a notably faster warm-up time compared to typical Class A amplifiers. The iBias technology dynamically adjusts the bias, taking into account the current and load of the amplifier.

This innovative approach enables the Rei to deliver the coveted benefits of Class A amplification without the typical drawbacks. Its ability to maintain optimal performance while mitigating issues associated with heat generation and power consumption makes the Rei truly exceptional. From the site Rei | WestminsterLab

I’ve heard these amps with my speakers and my EAR 912 pre-amp/VAC Reference pre-amp. Audiophiles are selling their SET to heavy duty Boulder/Gryphon amps for these amps. They run cool, lightweight, energy efficient for Class A and sound powerful. Superior sound and power but not as inexpensive as Class D amps.

One reviewer- Intelligent handling of the bias current results in an idle power consumption as low as 60 to 80 watts, and the heat sinks, which have been given their precise shape by finite element analysis, only get hand-warm even during listening sessions.

I intend to purchase a pair in the future but I just ordered the Lampizator Poseidon Pre-amp/DAC.  I am in no way affiliated with any brand other than being best friend of GroverHuffman cables as a beta tester.   

How about 30 lb. monoblocks that will power (beautifully) nearly every speaker. Westminster Labs REI   100/200/400 into 8/4/2 ohms, sliding Class A design, cool running and low power drain when in standby mode.  They aren't inexpensive at $33K a pair but they are state of the art (SOTA).  Von Schweikert uses them now and at the Munich show, I heard that half a dozen of the top speaker manufacturers used them outstandingly.  

As a result of being a very social individual in relation to my audio hobby. I have different ways that I fulfill a social activity. One being I am occasionally a exhibitor and more regular an attendee at Enthusiast orientated Audio Meet Ups / Events.

One such Event is a weekend affair and the intention is to extend the experience to others, hence it is attended by the Public, usually approx' 500 Paying Visitors come through the door.

Using a event as the above and recollecting the visitors met or witnessed in a exhibition room.

There is plenty of evidence that both Male and Female do like to be visitors, Females/Males as a Partner or Females witnessed as a Group.

There is also plenty of evidence to show that the age range of attendees is quite diverse as well, from Teens and ascending in age to where being of a good old age is quite obvious. My friend from a local HiFi Group and with a history of regularly attending the above event, has thrown in the Towel on the Long Days out last year at the age of 85, to assist with his home audio system management, he went over to active speakers Two Years ago and absolutely loves the idea, as it has made a change where usable space is improved on in the downsized home.

There is plenty of evidence to show that individuals with an interest in HiFi have a variety of health issues or disability that can be seen to be an impediment to there managing a Audio System.

"Where there is a will, There is a way"

There is plenty of devices to be found that assists an individual partake in a interest, with additional assistance more of what would be viewed as impractical can be achieved as well.

At the Public attended event, there is a side exhibition, which is the System in a suitcase, which is where regular exhibitors/attendees bring a system that is packed into a suitcase.

The intention is the system owners have been building a second system over the years, which is one that they are familiar with and best if used as a second system and have noticeable attractions to their main systems.

The idea is to show new to audio types, that a system can be produced that will fit into a suitcase and be quite attractive in comparison to the usually difficult to grasp main systems that can be seen in use.

A place such as this event is a great place to carry out the demonstrations as so much is to be experienced under one roof. 

The system in a suitcase are always very popular stop off's, and are a constant queue of individuals wanting to make inquiries about ease of acquiring and costs associated, their faces are a picture, when learnt much is a used purchase and will not be much more than £500 inclusive of suitcase 😁.

If only, the so called experienced types who purport themselves as having a superior status, through their having thrown away substantial monies and time into their audio hobby, could be as thrilled about meeting with others and showing a lesser system, as the newbie individual expresses their thrill, when taking their first steps into audio.

Is this newbie individual, not where all of us time served types have evolved from.

Anyone in the central NJ area - my audiophile friends and I will come help you with your equipment. Cost - join our small group which casually gets together to have a bite to eat, share a good glass of wine and listen to each others systems and music.

My friends just helped me move my almost 200 pound mono-block amplifiers and a LOT of my other stuff (do we ever realize how much stuff we have?).

Just before this move, it was moving our (now recently deceased) friend's heavy speakers! I'm no spring chicken but I keep myself in good shape - and I am very grateful for their help - on both occasions.

Come join us - we're not perfect but we're a good group :-)

Stereo equipment should be something you set up once and very rarely move around, if at all. Do you go to a church or have friends with "children" 30 and younger in good health? Ask for help. Most people would be happy to help - and get the chance to hear what a good system can sound like. Kick 'em a few bucks for their time and trouble. 

Otherwise, go for a lightweight Class-D amp or integrated and call it a day. Not worth screwing up your back to hear some music, even as much as we love it. 

Even for instance if you had a good gun collection and needed a safe, you aren't going to be lifting something weighing 500 lbs. You'd be smart and hire some people. 

I carried my 180lb Krell FPB 600 upstairs by myself.

You are strong, or I'm weak. :-) I could only manage about 100lb in my prime. 

@jerry_b2 

😁👍

As someone now over 70, I enjoyed this discussion as it certainly applies to me.  My story:  Bought two very heavy Mark Levison 23 amps nearly 30 years ago and put them up on a shelf with no help. Just recently had minor service to them. It was  a PITA to get them down, into my car, into the repair shop and then again to get them home and back up on the shelf.  I needed help at every step.  My costs:  Beers to my sons-in-law and the admission I needed help.  These amps currently power my Egglestonworks Andras whiich weigh in at hundreds of pounds each....which also were a PITA to send back to the factory for upgrades...and came back with even more granite. My hearing loss is to the point that what I own is good enough for me to still enjoy and I plan to keep the amps and speakers in their current positions...hopefully for at least another decade if lucky.  After that.....headphones at the assisted living home. Life is hard. Suck it up. Nothing is free ....and if it is worth it to you, you gotta pay for it somehow.

When the Amphitheatres were being built, the designs were all about the projection of sound ands how it was Auditorius for those in the seating provided.

Auditorius become in modern terminology a Auditorium is a word with a few hundred years origin, which is a bit of a Hybrid term covering both Amphitheatre and Auditorium.

Audio as a word is much more modern, relating to electronics involved in producing sound.

It looks like sound has a very long history of being produced for an assembly of individuals to receive, maybe I am a traditionalist in my approach, and lucky to know quite a few like minded traditionalists.  

I just got a 100lb amp. The delivery guy brought it into my apartment and I took it out of the box and put it on the bottom shelf of my stereo rack. I'm in my 60s and managed it fine. I was worried. To be honest I'm having a senior moment and don't know how I managed it by myself. Hope I have no future back problems.

@jfrmusic 😊

@aewarren 😂

@pindac Wow, a social high end audio guy. Didn’t think one existed. The Venn diagram of audiophile does not intersect with that of social humans. I think I have had four folks over to hear my system in twenty years.

I'm in the same boat with low back issues - but with L4&5 fused, 2 disc spacers etc. 

FWIW I recently bought a BAT VK3500 to power my Harbeth 40.3 XD's. I'm really happy with it. It weighs 50lbs. I managed installing it without any difficulty - but it sits on top of the cabinet. Putting into a rack might be challenging though. 

I moved  my Andra 250 lbs using furniture sliders. I have move them 5 times for more than 20yrs I own them.

It’s funny, about 12+ years ago I thought I should start downsizing the weight of my equipment for possible future age-related limitations. I started using tube amp(s) and monitor/sub speakers.

Fast forward to today, I now own 250lb speakers, and (2) 140lb amps! I guess these may be for my last hooray? The speaker flight cases are so large they could be used to bury me in!

ozzy

@ghdprentice

My speakers have been known to move around the house at night, so I have to put them back in place the following morning. I hide my car keys under my pillow just in case they want to sneak out and go for a drive.

@ghdprentice 

Had a good laugh at your comment about moving speakers to dust the floor under them. 

From my own end, I loan equipment regularly, I attend social events where it is expected that a range of equipment will be available to be used as part of the days musical encounters.

I also demonstrate my whole system as part of social activity at Public Attended Events.

I gave up on the Lone HiFi Enthusiast person many years past, my HiFI experience today is all about nurturing friendships and growing on the base of those already met with a like minded interest.

When I get the chance to do Photography it is nearly always carried out as a Social experience, very rarely is a loan field trip participated in.

Life is too short, and there is a lot less good experience to had in front of me than there is behind me.

On that note, I’m now heading out to a Party.

OP,

👍🎉

Just out of interest. Why are folks moving amps and speakers?. Typically I buy an amp or speaker… place it (even heavy speakers are easy to walk for adjustment) and not touch it for ten years or more. What are you guys doing? Moving to dust under them?

I feel your pain. I just put my system on new racks! And some of my gear is about 75lbs plus . I’m 60 now and can still do it but another 10 years or so I’ll be SOL. Maybe try and stay on the lighter side of things if you can. That’s what I think I will have to do as time goes on Michael. 

Ancient Astronaut Theorists say that the megaton stones of the great Pyramids, Easter Island and Stonehenge were floated and put place with sound waves.

Might be worth checking in to? Probably should put your neighbors on notice before implementing this plan. Someone’s floating Sub-Zero frig could be quite disturbing.

Beautiful High Efficiency OB Speakers very very easy to manage as an alternative type Speaker.

Mr Nixie - STC - ll Power Amp, unbelievable Amp for the volume, do not be fooled by its size, there are much more valuable and highly rated Amp's that this one has Superseded in others systems. It has also been used as a Active Amp in Speaker designs.

CDP, Streamers and DAC's are to be found almost Hand Size and weighing in under 1Kg.

A TT can be found as very lightweight structure using the modern materials selected to control transfer of energy.

I myself have reduced from 9 Stone (58Kg) Plinth on a TT, to a Plinth produced from a more commonly seen material for such purposes that weighs less than 1 Stone (6Kg)

A Support Structure can be a Light Weight Wall Mounted Shelve produced for the purpose to support Audio Equipment.

These are the types of things needing to be considered if wanting Music in the home to a certain level of replay as the years and best of health are behind us, I am slowly making change and acclimatising to the notion, my wonderful long term owned commission built devices will be somebody else's pleasure, 'maybe' ?

I got out of vinyl in the late 90s. Then started ripping CDs to my MacBook a feed year later. I have half a terabyte of music on my MacBook at the moment. Now I’m getting a really nice streamer that will also support me adding up to 16 terabytes of SSD disk. I’ll start with One. Then move my library there. I feel so light not having all those physical CDs. Now I’m into streaming so will not be buying many CDs anymore. But I don’t want a lot of heavy audio equipment. My Harbeth C7s weigh 29 lbs. When it arrives my Aurender Streamer is 29lbs  I think of it as the turntable system in my all digital system. My MSB DAC 19lbs and my current amp the AHB2 is 12 lbs. All manageable. If I replace the amp I’ll go no more than 40lbs. From what I’ve heard and researched very high end amp sound doesn’t necessarily equate with large heavy behemoths. 
 

I just purchased a pair of 83 pound mono blocks. I tried putting them on top of my cabinet and about hurt myself, so now they are sitting on pieces of granite and there are furniture movers underneath. I can move them when needed without to much trouble and without giving myself a hernia.

I’ve reached an age where I can see backward and forward in the hobby and begin to navigate to a lighter footprint. Precipitating factor: the wife announced she will no longer help me move my equipment. It’s like the bargaining phase of grief: learning to live without LF extension.

First to go is speakers >100 lbs. Too clumsy to transport or box and ship for re-sale, not to mention the diminished used market for large-format speakers. Where does all this big iron end up-- on the island of lost toys?

Amplifiers >100 lbs. survive in my system for now owing to their compact form factor relative to gigantic speakers-- provided that the amp has handles for symmetrical lifts. The sheer genius of Nelson Pass in this regard... and good reason to stay fit with free weights.

The improvements in the latest Class D products beckon. I’m exhausted by Class A: the weight of the huge output transformers, the heat, the sourcing of tubes from foreign countries I will never visit...

A large vinyl collection is an even bigger albatross. The lightness of being of high-quality digital servers and streamers is compelling. And the elimination of all physical media except for an ipad is an excellent excuse for spending more time on the couch. Ripping and dumping my large CD collection was so easy... I should have never gotten out of vinyl in the mid-80s. But now, saying goodbye to all that reacquired vinyl would be like losing a true friend twice,,.

Questions that bear heavily: How many more home relocations? When to downsize? At what point does the equipment churn end? Is it fair to burden the next generation with the accumulated weight of a system that means nothing to them?

The dream could end with an old fart in headphones...sitting next to his grandson in earbuds.

Check out the Audio By Van Alstine DVM 225 monos at 17 lb each or the DVA M750 monos at 38 lbs each, if you need more power. They have received great reviews. The company also offers a 30-day return policy, so you have nothing to lose except return shipping. They are also priced very reasonably!

Talked to my dealer and if I buy a heavy amp they can deliver and place on my rack. 

@jfrmusic 

When my son was in college he used to scan on-line ads for help moving things.  Very surprising (to me) how many he answered and was paid well.  He would take buddies with him if it was furniture or larger items.

Put an ad in the local paper asking for help.  Put up a notice at the local sandwich shop where laborers frequent.

Regards,

barts

PS.  I have the same problem.

A good hand truck and aluminum ramps go a long way. I have double doors in the basement so getting things down there, not too bad. My experience is (some will differ here), weight in the equipment=weight in the music. Had piano movers for my speakers. Where there’s a will...

I pay my friend's son to put the amps into place on stands. They are on the second floor. Before he comes over, I make sure the boxes are open, the lights are on, the path to the stands is clear and all the cords are in place.  He sets them on the stands and I hook them up.

There are no dealers in town, so I have the UPS/FedEx guy put the amps inside my front foyer. Last time the amps were on a wooden pallet. The delivery guy took the boxes off the pallet and carted it away.  I gave him a tip.  It gets expensive.

I wish I could handle my mono blocks myself too...but I would only purchase the amp I liked best, regardless of weight...again, no need to move mine past 4 1/2 years - maybe this is unusual, but same holds true for audiophile friends and their amps...and it seems not difficult to hire someone to do if the need arises...

@bigboypete 

I’m sure my dealer can arrange a delivery and set up. Just concerned about latter issues when it needs to be moved. Would still like to be able to handle myself. 

I'm in the same boat - I have heavy amps that I doubt my back would allow me to heft now - a 150 lb Jeff Rowland and a pair of Classe monoblocs that weigh 'only' just over 100 lbs. each. You can always hire help to do the job for you.

That is surprising that your dealer is willing to pass up on an expensive sale by not offering to have a couple of employees deliver the amp to your home. Have you asked? I purchased a McIntosh MC 312 clocking in at 138 lbs in its box from Magnolia (Best Buy) and they delivered it to my house and put it in my stereo room without charge because of precisely that issue. I did have to have a buddy help me unbox it and put it in -- what I hope will be -- its final resting place for the next 20 years. :) Good luck!

OP, great question cause many of us struggle with this issue moving around monster amps.  Gonna get me one of those hydraulic things...

I’m a competitive powerlifter (if you’ve ever been awake watching ESPN ant 2:00 am and watched meat heads carry rocks, you may have seen me) and have struggled putting some components where they belong.  So you’re not unusual.

 A lot of the issue is how awkward the weights are and how you have to support the weight forward from your center of gravity coupled with the lack of any good hand grips.  A 50lb awkward weight is worse than a well-designed 200lb.

Smart designers put in handgrips, which changes things immensely.

The other thing you can do is partially disassemble things.  Usually, most of the weight are things like heat sinks.  These are generally not hard to take off and put back.  Get a screw driver and an Allen wrench and turn 100lb of deadweight into four 25 lbs small weights.

I have this problem too!  For many years I owned a 55 pound Audiomat Arpege and a 51 pound Audiomat Prelude.  Both integrated tube amplifiers.  The Prelude was in my living room audio system and the Arpege in my TV system,  Both Audiomats come with three very pointed and very sharp spikes for feet.  To avoid scratching the stereo console it takes extra care  and extra  strength.   Everything was okay until my husband died two years ago.  He would do the heavy lifting.  I can’t.  I am 85 years old and weigh 108 pounds.  Fortunately, I have a brother but this can’t go on forever.  My brother is getting older too and his back can be troublesome.  I’ve just had the tubes blow on the Arpege and not two weeks later, the selector knob started exhibiting static and uneven volume.  In both cases my brother came to my rescue,

But this can’t go on,  What to do?

I had to replace the Prelude recently.  Instead of buying an integrated amplifier, I bought separates.  Luxman tube gear,  Both the preamp and the amplifier weigh just under 40 pounds and there are no pointy feet to make things worse.  I can manage 40 pounds.  At least for now.  I probably should have bought solid state so I wouldn’t have the problem of changing tubes but tubes suit my speakers so perfectly, I went for tubes again.

What happens if I can’t manage 40 pounds and my brother isn’t able to be helpful?  Darned if I know.  I guess I’ll have to hire someone.  I’m not going with Class D.ř

I might have to sell the Audiomat and replace it with separates.

Op, I am not sure if someone have already suggest but one possibility is to place the heavy amp, if you really want it, on a separate low solid-top stand with casters. Alternatively, you could replace your current audio rack with an audiophile-grade rack with casters. The weight capacity of each caster can be up to 80 lb, potentially holding all the gears you have on the rack.  Furniture sliders could be another option too.

Something like this ...

with the optional casters like this ...

P.S. I apologize for a little humor mentioned above. I do not know your better half has passed.

I have the same criteria as @ryder - if I can’t handle it on my own I will not buy it. With so much good audio equipment out there, I am sure the OP can find something that is manageable weight wise and sounds good to his ears.

Accuphase and Luxman are really nice but noway can I handle 97 lbs. in any case No dealers near me for either. 

$12,000

Accuphase A75, 97lb. $124 per pound. Good deal. Class A class A sound. True continuous average output power, i.e., 60 wpc into 8 ohms & 480 wpc into 1 ohm. 👍︎👍︎👍︎👍︎👍︎  100 lb is not that heavy. It is lighter than your lovely best half.

Hello @jfrmusic to me the Benchmark amps were on the dry and sterile side compared to the organic and lifelike qualities of Audionet.  The Audionet are extremely resolving, but not fatiguing or overetched.  Very full spectrum natural sound with what I call 'sparkle'.  Nothing boosted just all there. In my family room I have the MM Makua preamp w onboard Tambaqui.  I used to have the beautifully matching MM class D Kaluga amps. They sounded great; until I carried up my Audionet Max amps to try and they have never left.  I sold the Kalugas and bought new Heisenbergs for my basement system.  My friend brought over his ABH4's to compare with my Max amps.  He was determined to find what it was in my system that sounded so good.  It did not take long to appreciate the difference between the Max amps and the Benchmarks.  I think the Max are the sweet spot in the Audionet line up.  I have only ever heard good things about Coda, but I have not had the pleasure of their company, nor Ayre.  Ask more or come listen!  Ken

@vthokie83 

Thanks. I am following that other S5.5 thread.

jfrmusic,

I'm putting together some listening notes from the first few week with it, I'll be posting it for the other thread....but I'll repost it here as well. I highly recommend you check out the other thread started by Terry a couple of weeks ago that I referenced above

Thanks again guys. Very informative responses. At the moment I've got the CODA S5.5 and the SimAudio 330A or 400m Mono blocks at the top of my list. The CODA is 45lbs. The SimAudio units are under 33lbs each. Have no actually experience hearing the CODA but I have heard several YouTube demos of the SimAudio amps. Even though YouTube is not HiRes I did get a sense of their character and it seemed relaxed and laid back with good control, deep bass and a very smooth high end.

I spoke to James at Destination HiFi and he said the S5.5 is a perfect match for my Harbeths and has several customer with that configuration.

I won't make a decision until my new Streamer and DAC arrive and I give the Benchmark AHB2 a shot. But I still feel that no matter how ut sounds I can do better than the Benchmark with the units I'm considering

@fastfreight 

You mentioned that your amp was superior to the Benchmark. Can you share your specific qualitative experiences in this regard. It would be helpful.

@vthokie83 

Please elaborate on your enthusiastic response to the CODA S5.5. What type of magic?

I’m astounded by the volume of postings in this thread. This is one of the most popular Audiogon conversations I’ve seen in a long time.

But it’s depressing to discover that so many colleagues have the same (age-related?) back problems that I do.

I hate to stereo-type, but imaybe audiophilia really is an old man’s game.

I bought mine from Audion Archon, and Mike Kay could give you some thoughts as well on the CODA

+++1 for the CODA S5.5, though I don't know how it would pair with the Harbeths. I would reach out to Doug Dale founder and CEO of CODA, he is really a great person to talk to....I spoke with him twice before buying the S5.5 and once afterwards. 45 pounds, full class A, reserve power for days.

I've only had mine for less than a week, but it is already producing magic. I have it connected to my Buchardt Audio S400 MKIIs right now (87 db 4 Ohms) and the CODA is owning those speakers. Also had it connected to a pair of Clayton Shaw Caladans, but they were really easy to drive at 93 db.

There is a thread right now started by Jonah5 who is reviewer Terry London, who has one in house for a review. He thought so much of it that he posted an early "heads up" post here on Audiogon......check that thread out.

I have dealt with sciatica for around 9 years. I was using a 65lb. amp from Odyssey Audio, the Stratos 3 channel model (my rig is combo 2-channel and home theater). When it needed repairs, I lugged it to a UPS store for packing and shipping. It was not easy for me, even with a hand truck, especially since my system is down a flight of stairs in my basement. Well, the unit came back damaged by the shipper, so I had to lug it again. Got it back after a while. It worked a few months, then failed again. I was at my wits end. Then I remembered that erstwhile NJ resident and fellow audio society member Mike Kallelis of Arion Audio makes really good switching amps that I have heard numerous times. I called him and ended up with the Arion Audio S-500 ($2500 retail at the time in 2019). I was out of work then, but I can’t live without my music, so I got the amp. 500 watts per side of very clean power in a shoe-box size case that weighs about 22lbs. I have been thrilled ever since. Maybe a tad less warm than the Odyssey, but it is quite neutral, clean and my speakers love the huge reserves of power. Highly recommended.