How do you define "vintage"? The hi-fi era is now arguably 65 years old, if you date the onset to around 1950. So, vintage could be something from the 50s, but also arguably something from the 80s. Something conceived and marketed in 1985 is now 30 years old. Anyway, a few years ago I acquired a pair of Beveridge 2SW speakers just out of a longstanding curiosity. These are unconventional ESLs (they are in a closed 7-foot vertical cabinet to absorb the back wave and the sound output is focused by a vertical lens in front; the panels are not biased with high DC voltage, so the direct-drive amp applies signal to the screen as well as to the stators). My pair was built in 1979. The "SW" stands for sub-woofer, so you need an external woofer to supply bass below 100Hz. Once I got the Bevs so they would produce sound, I decided to go vintage with the rest of the system. The subwoofers are very large transmission line cabinets using the old KEF B139 woofer; I built these myself in 1970. They don't go super low in frequency, but they are fast enough to mate seamlessly with the Beveridges. The woofer amplifier is a 50W Threshold built in the late 80s (maybe not vintage??). The crossover for the woofers is a Dahlquist DLPQ (or something like that). The preamp is either a Klyne 6LX (w/phono) or an early full function Quicksilver built in 1986. I can add or subtract a Silvaweld SWH550 phono stage. The turntable is a much modified Lenco L75 with a Dynavector DV505 tonearm, currently bearing either a Grace Ruby or Acutex LPM320 cartridge. This secondary system resides in our basement where it is not a bother to my dear wife, even at 2 AM playing LOUD.
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playpen,
Depending on the model, your P+E might actually be a Dual in wolfs clothing. Dual bought P+E in the early 70's. Flip it over and look at the bottom of the motor. If it has Dual stamped in it, then it was built by Dual after P+E closed. In any regard, they are really good turntables.
I am curious how your Harmon Kardon sounds? Those were pretty nice receivers, even the little ones sounded smooth. I have no experience with Rotel, other than a few of their CD players both of which went up in flames. (no really) But they sounded nice.
If the Rotel was that harsh, it probably needed servicing.
I love old KLH speakers. Had a pair of sixes once.
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I only run a P+E turntable in my main system as 2nd table next to my Rega but it sounds remarkably well for over 40 years old with my Signet AM50 I bought over 20 years ago.This post makes me want to replace and get a set of KLH 17's I had bought in the 60's.I just recently bought a couple old recievers,a Rotel and a Harmon Kardon for less than 20 bucks each and hooked the Rotel up in my main system to Paradigm studio 60V5's after unhooking my Bryston B100 just to hear if I could tolerate it if my Bryston had to go back to factory for repair.I was surprised,I could listen to it,it wasn't a beamy no sound field piece of trash.
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I have four systems operating in my home, one of which is vintage, more or less: H/K 430 receiver with ADS L1290 MkII speakers and a Nak BX300 deck. It sounds really, really good. But it's still the lowest rung.
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missioncoonery,
Well that certainly hasn't been my experience. In fact in many cases just the opposite. You'll find many music enthusiast who prefer vintage. Bear in mind, the gear has to be in top working condition.
Loving the Sansui at the moment.
N
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I have lots of vintage gear,mainly because it just holds it value or appreciates if you buy the right stuff...but none of it sounds as good as modern stuff IMO |
I have recently been down sizing and selling off many amps and preamps, tape decks etc. Before letting them go, I have been listening to them one last time. =) What fun!
Recently, I inserted my ancient but pristine Sansui 9090DB, and WOW!
I had forgotten how good this thing is. I am aghast that I am enjoying a receiver so much, but the phono is wonderful. The soundstage is glorious and at the moment I can't seem to bring myself to pull it from my system. It sounds absolutely wonderful and effortless. Smooth and airy. No fatigue whatsoever and very dynamic.
I have been having everyone audio friend I know come for a listen. We are all surprised. I bought this in 1977, and didn't use is long as I began using Mac separates and got on the upgrade wheel. I am liking it so much I may send it in for a quick CLA and keep it.
Just saying, it seems to do everything just right and it's beautifully built.
Norman |
Quad IIs (GT Audio rebuilt), Decca London cartridge (Garrott Brothers rebuild), Nakamichi Dragon, Revox G36, Meridian 206B CD player are the old bits in my system.
Kicking around also are a pair of LS3/5As, a pair of old 1960s Mordaunt Arundel speakers (Decca ribbons with a 10 inch cone).
Charlie |
I use vintage speakers (Quad ESLs) and an early LP12 which is kinda vintage, right? Everything else is modern. |
Steve,
My eldest son uses a Vintage Yamaha hifi. C2 pre-amp and a m40 amplifier that he runs in class A mode. It is a very sweet set up, no disappointments. He uses a set of EPI 100's with a POLK subwoofer. The Yamaha pre-amp is really impressive, at least as good as if not better than my Citation 17. And the phono section is what really stands out to me. You're right, NO HYPE, just pure enjoyment... for years now.. with minimal cost.
I have yet to hear, a substantial improvement in any new 'state of the art' system from what was available twenty or thirty years ago. In fact, isn't that what everyone is now discovering? Idler drive turntables, reel to reel, tube amps? We got it right long ago... we just didn't know it until digital came around and we discovered 'listening fatigue'.
Keep the faith.. vintage is where its at.
Norman |
Great discussion! I have a "quasi vintage" system at our ski chalet. Yamaha 2010 amp _ cost me $250 and it has both mm and mc phono with variable loading etc etc. Very sweet and punchy sound. Sources are Micro-Seiki BL 51, ADC arm and Empire 750 cart for vinyl and Granite Audio tube CD player - not really vintage but I do have a Philips Bitstream 850 CD player that sort of qualifies as 'vintage'.
Speakers are home designed MTM transmission lines.
I am always blown away by how musical this modest investment sounds. No, it is not the ultimate in detail, or even transparency, but wow it it never fails to excite the musicality in the LP or CD. Relaxed would be a hallmark descriptor, that Yamaha has drive and control so it begs the question of what makes a great musical experience in the home?
With this type of equipment there is no hype, just pure enjoyment and system synergy.
Steve |
Hanaleimike,
Man, I am going to pour a double scotch tonight and cry with you. Sorry about the loss. But, cheer up! Lots of good Conrad Johnson, McIntosh, Citation, Dynaco, marantz, etc.. to be found. Go for it. You'll have the time of your life, and your wallet will thank you.
Norman |
Carter,
Man you are spot on. It seems that all of us, somewhere in time lost the entire notion that it is all about the music. The system that I mentioned is one that I have owned for over 30 years. However, it wasn't the only one I listened too in all that time. I was caught up in upgrade Hell for years. Went through thousands of dollars and in the end, was never more satisfied than with the system that I use now. So, like everyone else, I sold gear at a massive loss only to end up appreciating, and throughly enjoying the system that I always went back too. The Citations. My upgrade days are OVER. I am content. When this revelation finally hit me, I began once again to just enjoy the music. I listen every day, and love what I am hearing.
Great post Carter...
Norman |
Hi Guys, when I think about all of the old great vintage gear that I have had in the last forty years of this obsession, and either traded or sold ( Scott, Fisher, Technics SP-10 w/arm,Mac.,KLH and many others) that I would love to have back now, it makes me want to cry. Musically, we have not gained a whole lot if at all during this time.
All that I now have of vintage gear that I love is a Marantz 2275 Receiver, two pair of excellent condition, all original AR 3 speakers ,one pair of mint large Advents, a Dual 1229 tt., a Mitsubishi DA-F20 tuner and a Teac RA-40S open reel recorder.
Sometimes when I listen to my large modern system, and always tweaking in order to wring every ounce of" being there" with the musicians out of it, I want to say "the hell with it" and go back to my vintage stuff and really "enjoy the Music"
Great thread Norman, thanks for starting it.
Carter |
Eweedhome,
you are not cheating.......some of the vintage gear sounds great after parts upgrades. BTW, on the PV5, if you vishay out the entire phono section, it will be an eye opener as to the resolution improvement you'll get.
I used to have a PV5, moved on to the PV8, and later PV12. The 12 was more open sounding than the PV5, but I could not conclude the 12 was better than the PV5. The PV5 allowed one to get lost in the music and enjoy one's self. |
I use a 1961 McIntosh MC240. That is my only piece of vintage gear today but I absolutely love it. I had a pair of Klipsch Heresy I for a while too but since sold them.
Arthur |
Newer is often not better, especially if price is a consideration, besides, some designs just work better in certain setups than others. My rule of thumb is to be up to date on fast moving technology- digital stuff- and go for classic analog.
What is the point in having a new tube amp or FM tuner? It is doubly satisfying to own equipment that holds its value and looks cool. |
I was going to have a vintage system.
My Father-in-law uncovered a Fairchild 255 amp and a 240 preamp in his attic, that his Father had bought, while looking for tubes for me. He mailed it in 3 packages. It was to be our dreamy, glowy, bedroom love system. The preamp arrived, the tubes arrived, ( but they were all dead, probably why it ended up in the attic) and the beautiful, mint, 50's tube amplifier........ went to the bottom of the ocean just off Kauai when a mail plane went down this January.
With no amplifier, I sold the preamp to a collector in Japan ( Dad didn't want it back), tossed the tubes, and cried myself to sleep. So in answer to your question, no I don't, but I'd still like too. |
I have several "vintage" speakers I keep for kicks.. just acquired a pair of circa 1983 KEF 103's I'm going to play with... |
I own old Quad II mono valve amps, the Quad 3 Preamp and the Valve Tuners in the housing of the 3-Series, it is a nice sounding electronic.
I got a Micro Seiki 5000 with FR-Arms and FR cartridge, this is special, very special, I like it very much. But most of the time I listen to a "modern" System. |
I have a CJ PV5 and MV75 "in process" now, that I hope to receive by the end of the month. I also have an ARC SP8 that had some "upgrades" done, but I decided to push it a little further, and don't have it back yet. My turntable is a 25-year old Linn LP12, and I'm on my second Koetsu Black (although it is relatively new), and I have a 25 year old Koetsu step-up transformer.
In a sense, I suppose you could say that I'm "cheating" because almost all of these pieces have been/are being "updated." So be it--I don't think the basic tonal structure is changing. The irony is that, although these particular CJ and ARC pieces are new to me, they are virtually identical to the gear I used in the 80's...along with the Linn, Koetsu, etc. So I am more or less in the process of recreating the system I used 20-25 years ago...with, I hope, a bit cleaner sound, and perhaps some additional reliability.
Now, all I need is my Dahlquist DQ-10's... |
I only have 1 current system setup and it is mostly vintage. Why vintage? For me is because I find quality vintage gear much more affordable and still very musically satisfying than new gear in my price range.
A pair of McIntosh MC40s, Conrad Johnson PV10-A, Altec 604-8G Model 17s, Technics SP-25 TT/ATP-12T arm, Denon 103R, Cinemag SUT, Marantz CC65SE CD.
For the cost of the above system, I don't think I could have done better. If I could, I haven't heard it yet.
I am also close to putting together a vintage mono system and have (more than enough) gear to do it, but the amp, preamp need recapped first. I also need a mono cartridge. It will consist of an old 1929 Victor (pre RCA) theatre amp, Brook Model 7 preamp, Electrovoice Georgian factory built speaker, Thorens 150 with SME 3009 arm. I realize this TT/arm/ cart will not be the best match, but it gives me something to start.
There are those of us who can't afford to play in new or lightly used gear, so thankfully there are some great vintage pieces to fill the void in our hobby. |
Cafreeman, that is a beloved system. I had some Mac gear, a MA 6100 integrated, then later a C-29 and a MC-2300. I also had an LP 12, but I couldn't walk across the floor when playing a record. (needed a better support)
Nice to see that there are still those enjoying Vintage gear.
Grimace, enlighten me.. what old gear do you use?
Thanks Gentlemen! |
Stringreen, better speakers? Not that there aren't any, there are many. The BP 10s still sing. I have my eye on a pair of Quads, ESL that an audio buddie of mine will be parting with. Properly set up, they are really sweet. And yeah, the Grace arm is gorgeous. |
Those Citation pieces are very, very nice. I had them and always move on...that doesn't necessarily mean "up". I'd get better speakers for your system. That Grace arm is gorgeous too...(had one of those too). |
My beloved main system is still my McIntosh MX110 tuner/pre, Mc2505 amp, Linn Lp12 and Klipsch speakers. I'm tempted to try the Cain & Cain Abby speakers, but I'll keep the vintage electronics.
I have 5 systems in 5 rooms, though...I admit to being a bit of a gear wanker. |
I use old gear for vinyl. I mean, have we literally reinvented the wheel over the past couple of years? I hear someone is going to start advertising a turntable as "Now! More round!" |
