I’ve been a member of Audiogon for a while but haven’t really had the need to utilize the forums until now... I’ve perused the forums pretty extensively the past couple of days but haven’t really found my specific question.... First some background: I’ve had my current system for quite some time (PSB image: 5t, 9c, 2b, subsonic 6; Denon AVR3311 as preamp; and a NAD T955 amp) and have been pretty happy with it... yes, I tend to hold on to my stuff for a while.... I recently decided to explore the option of upgrading/updating my speakers and was pretty interested in some midlevel stuff (SVS Prime, Emotiva, PSB X2T, Paradigm 8, 9, or 10 something…) but ultimately decided the $2000-$3000 price tag wasn’t worth the investment as they were all roughly in the same league as my PSBs... Somehow, I stumbled upon the review of the Tekton double impacts... don’t even know how I found it but there I was... I kinda chuckled to myself when the reviewer started comparing them to $20,000 speakers and then started calling them better at some things... I was a little pessimistic about the review because in my aforementioned research every speaker was the greatest thing since sliced bread.. (To be honest, in my eyes, the professional reviewers lost some credibility because every speaker was just great, couldn’t find a bad review no matter how hard I tried...) Anyhow, the comparison to speakers 7-10x in price piqued my curiosity so I started snooping around for any Tekton reviews I could find and lo and behold, everyone loves them and the comparisons to speakers multiple times their price were plentiful. Ok, so the Tektons are good and now I’m more interested than I should be…
So here’s the rub… I’ve never even considered spending $5000-$6000 on a speaker system (5.0-5.1). Never in my wildest dreams… I’ve always had a theoretical limit of $3k and never gave anything above that a thought. Along comes Tekton with speakers that are in the 5-6k price range (5.0-5.1) but are being compared to speakers $20,000+ and the fact people are putting them in the same league as speakers in that price range, and saying they are better in some instances, is intriguing…
So here’s where I am asking for some assistance. It seems the Tekton lineup is a unique opportunity to acquire reportedly superior sonic performance with apparently unparalleled value. However, $5-6k is a TON of money in my world.. It won’t break the bank but admittedly, it bends it pretty significantly and spending this kind of money on speakers definitely wasn’t a consideration even a week ago… Personally, I am seeing this as a once in a lifetime purchase (am 43 and would expect these to be the last major speaker purchase of my life) but I do need to justify to my betrothed. My original sales pitch to her included the analogy “it seems they are selling Lamborghinis for the price of a Mustang…” and “I really don’t think there will be another opportunity like this” (when did I start selling timeshares???!!!) There are other barriers with her as well (e.g., “They’re how big?!”) but she does have somewhat of an understanding of how much I like music and stereo stuff.. somewhat…
So my actual questions:
To those that have actually heard the speakers, (transducers?)… do you really feel they are leaps and bounds better than typical speakers in the 3-6k range (generally speaking…)? For comparison, I liked the SVS Ultras but due to price and size (yeah, I know how big the Tektons are..) I put them in the “maybe someday” category. To be clear, I’m not asking is “x better than y?” but rather “Do these $3000 speakers really belong in the same class as $20,000 speakers????
In your humble opinions, is this really a rare/unique opportunity with unparalleled value that is a “once-in-a-lifetime opportunity” or are situations like this (incredible value for the money) more common?
I can’t even claim to have a basic understanding of electronics, I’ve read up on ohms and what not and my eyes glaze over.. I spoke with Eric and he, without hesitation, stated my NAD T955 would be plenty sufficient to run whatever options I went with. Thoughts? I intend on using the NAD until it dies (hopefully no time soon) and will deal with next steps when the time is right…
I am super nervous about ordering something so expensive unheard, If anyone is interested, I would like to have a discussion relating to my type of music and listening environment/levels.. (not including in this post to keep size down..)
Any other relavant information I haven't considered, particularly in the area of justifying a purchase such as this?
There are probably 100 other little tidbits I could include in this but I am trying to be as brief as possible and I still wrote a novel… Anyhow, any productive assistance would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
Warning: virtual
novel coming up but it’s my post so…
Ok, I’ve been
reading all the latest comments and have fallen behind replying so thanks to
everyone who has chimed in! At least to
some degree I have initially considered a lot of thinking points that have been
presented and fortunately have been presented with some new angles to consider,
which is exactly why I turned to y’all in the first place so truly, thank you
for your comments…
I have spent a
lot of time since my original post contemplating the known variables. I’ve also spent some time working with my
wife regarding what is/isn’t acceptable in terms of aesthetics... Of all things, a video cabinet that I (with my
father-in-law’s expertise and guidance) created with my own two hands was the line
in the sand, it has to stay where it is...
Oh the irony! I crafted the
cabinet to fit perfectly with my PSBs leaving no room for anything wider.. oops… At any rate, she was pretty insistent the
video cabinet stays so there were some conversations about that… So that coupled with the growing list of
logistical issues (e.g. the growing realization the components need to be at a
comparable quality level, all the work that would need to be done to accommodate
the speakers…) and the writing was on the wall… But don’t fret!!!
So one point
that has been made a few times in one form or another is “are you sure this is
something you need?” and after some extensive internal monologues I can
emphatically say it is. I have always
loved music, period. Even as a kid
playing with my legos well into the night I had to have music playing as I
built. Along those lines, I was a
typical 80s kid with MTV always on and to this day, if it was a video on MTV I
can pretty reliably tell you the artist within seconds of hearing it. Moving forward, I was in band from 4th
-10th grade and would have kept playing but I had to make a choice
between football and band (to be honest, the option was given to continue with
both but I wasn’t the type that was going to be on campus from 5am to 6:30 pm
every day…) and football won.. I will
say this, football and band were really the only two things I committed myself
to in high school, I was pretty bummed I had to give one up for the sake of the
other… At any rate, no matter where I
have been, music has always been with me..
There are so many songs/albums that can trigger an instant memory that
would otherwise be lost… Even today,
hearing the right song at the right time can literally give me goose
bumps.. Latest example is Nine Inch
Nails “Right Where It Belongs.” I pretty
much ignored anything NIN after “Downward Spiral” but stumbled into this song a
few months ago… The first 3 minutes of
the song is recorded “lo-fi” but the message/lyrics brought me in and then
suddenly, at 3:02, the stage opens and the song crescendos into “hi-fi” and it
just gave me chills.. Those are the
things that stir my soul (I am a sucker for a good crescendo!!!)… I could go on
and on but I think the point has been made
Moving along… I had to omit some background in my original
post as it wasn’t relevant but now has a place…
For years, I have had this dream of creating a sound room in my basement… Creating a space that was all mine that I
could go to and listen to anything I wanted, as loud as I wanted, whenever I
wanted… It seemed we were finally at a
place financially to put this dream into action so I started looking into it
and figured I knew just the right people (father-in-law: very handy; buddy 1:
architect, buddy 2: home theater installer.. perfect!!!) So I figured a couple
grand and some help from my friends and voila!!!! Yeah…. I don’t want to throw anyone under the
bus but suffice it to say, buddy 1 and 2 were less than enthusiastic about
helping with the project so yeah, thanks guys... Then, I started looking into the cost of
running electricity and soundproofing and the project was circling the drain
before it even got off the ground.. Needless
to say, I was pretty frustrated and bummed as the budget was annihilated before
I bought a single item… At this point I changed
course and decided “All right, I’ll just get my fix with the main system” and that’s
about where y’all came in (auditioning the mid-level stuff to put in my room to
replace the PSBs but decided to stand pat as there wasn’t a discernable
difference so why blow the cash for no improvement…)
Well, as
David_10 stated, “BUT THEN THERE WOULDN’T HAVE
BEEN THE JOURNEY” So within this
whole crazy story, I’m back at stage 1, building the “sound lab” in the
basement.. This time with full spousal
approval!!!!!! It basically came down to
this revelation (this is all internal monologue):
“Wait a minute, I’m ready to drop 5-6K on a speaker system that
1) has questionable spousal approval and 2) creates a myriad of logistical
problems (room set up, the damn cabinet, the right “upstream components” to do
the job effectively) but won’t spend it on the sound room which has nothing but
upside???? Not to mention that means only
2.0-2.1 speakers which cuts out the need for the center and rears and also cuts
out the need for a 5 channel amp.. Theoretically, those savings can be applied
to higher quality equipment.. WHY AM I NOT DOING IT THIS WAY??????”
The ”sound lab” will have it’s own logistical issues as I’ve
never built a room before, never worked construction, never designed a room
before, and definitely never sound proofed a room before. But that’s why we have forums and youtube
right???? What could possibly go wrong???!!!!
But seriously, I know this is a huge undertaking (an actual electrician
will be involved..) but as I said, this is something I have always wanted and
am willing to put forth the effort necessary to make it happen and summer is
around the corner and that just happens to be when I have spare time…
Ok, so how bout we get this back on topic???!!! So new room = new questions/logistics… I think I’m gonna eschew paragraphs and get straight
to the bullet points.
The situation:
1.
New room: will be approximately 9x11 with sound
treatment techniques utilized to prevent polluting the rest of the house and my
neighbors tranquility (details omitted at this point, not a secret, just trying
to save room)
2.
Regarding Tekton: based on owner
reviews; Terry London’s review (reading the full DI thread revealed he will call out speakers he
doesn’t like… his stock went up tremendously in my book seeing that); and some
other random research I have done I feel pretty comfortable with buying their
speakers
3.
My musical tastes: I have a pretty narrow window of music I like but it varies
within that window.. Mainly 90s hard rock (Tool, Rammstein, maybe 80s Metallica
if you don’t know the others, etc) but also alternative (Nine Inch Nails, Janes
Addiction, etc. ) with a smattering of other stuff. I’ll be the first to admit
a lot of it is “Noisy” but when you find the sweet stuff that just gets you..
yeah, that’s the stuff, particularly most Tool songs if you are familiar..
4.
My preferences in a speaker: Accurate
reproduction as it was intended that can fill up a room (I do like it loud), if
there’s a chime in the background or hushed backup vocals I want to hear it!!!
Having said that, there are 2 variances. 1). Too much tweeter makes my ears
hurt.. How Klipsch is still in business is beyond me… Wouldn’t set ‘em up if
you gave me a pair (at least from all that I have ever heard..) 2). I have to
admit, maybe I like when the bass goes boom… Altogether, when a system sounds
crystal clear across the spectrum and can bring that bass appropriately, I love
it!
a.
Whilst talking to Eric, he compared one of the speakers to
B&W 803/804. I have traditionally
liked B&W sound so that did get me yet a little bit more intrigued.. Can’t
remember if it was the DIs or the Electrons though
5.
My upstream components: HA!!! Ain’t
got none!!!! Just makin’ sure you’re
still paying attention at this point.. I
know I would’ve started to glaze over at this point if I wasn’t the one writing
the post….
The new questions!!!:
Ok, hopefully everyone realizes I realize the whole “individual
preference/only you can tell what’s good” bit so with any luck we can just skip
right past that…
1.
Thoughts on Tekton speakers based on
room size?
a.
Double Impacts – HUGE!!!
b.
Electrons – Less huge but at their
pricepoint, why wouldn’t one just get the DIs?
c.
Enzo 2.7 - more realistic size (and
price!) but at what cost sonically???
Initially, my heart wants to start
with the DIs and see if I need to add sub sound afterwards but my brain is
telling me Enzo 2.7 with sub(s) (which would pretty much equal the price of DIs
without the sub… so yeah…)
2.
Preamps/amps – What do YOU like/what
would YOU recommend? The reason I ask is
I am only familiar with mid high stuff (PSB/NAD, KEF, Emotiva, etc.) so I need
a starting point of stuff to start looking into. If it wasn’t obvious from before, I’m a value
oriented kinda guy that looks for the bang for the buck.. I know I will need to spend some money on
this stuff but want to be realistic…
3.
Constructing the sound lab: I will
be doing my own research but if anyone has any suggestions regarding valuable
resources I am all ears…..
Ok, that’s it for now, if you’re still with me thanks for
reading and, as always, I look forward to any replies that are productive
towards the conversation…
Ok, I read your whole life story (apparently I have too much time on my hands).
Your conundrum is much easier (and cheaper) to solve now. You are working with a 9x11 room.This is not much larger than some closets. You DO NOT need floor standers, let alone large ones like those from Tekton.
What you want is good quality stand-mount monitors. These will sound better in this size of room, won't over power with booming bass, and save you $$$.
Luckily there's many great ones for less than a pair of Tekton DIs, Kef LS50s for example.
You also don't need surround sound in a room like this, it would only muck up the imaging. So you could possibly put something like $3k into some stand-mounters and have $2k left for a nice integrated amp, maybe one with a good onboard DAC. For $800, you can find a musical subwoofer from the likes of Rythmik or REL for your headbanger sessions (if you like overloading a room with bass).
You seem to desire a balanced, musical sound. It's very hard to beat British stand-mount monitors in this regard. Don't let the published specs on many of these misead you. Many of them are as resolving as the very best.
Have you noticed that Tekton seems to come out with a new model every few months, and each one is claimed to be better than the one before it? If the Enzo and Pendragon were such giant killers and made "every other speaker obsolete," then why the need for the Double Impact or that open-baffle one? I understand the need to have multiple product offerings for certain price points and applications, but the marketing method is unusual to say the least. I notice a lot of these Pendragons for sale on the used market, which makes me wonder if they're really giant slayers as claimed.
You could put your PSBs in the planned listening room and see how floor standers cope with such a small space, but my guess is they'll overload the room.
@helomech: great points. You could also go with active monitors. For example, the active version of the Kefs that helomech mentions, ATC, and others, etc.
I missed the room size... 9 by 11 !!! I think you are in the basement, how high is the ceiling?
Another option:
Have you considered headphones? A used TOTL / Reference system can be had for your total budget, including DAC and amp. No room treatment and subsequent spend required.
Even open backs, which I recommend getting, will not bother anyone if you are in this room, or most other rooms for that matter.
You will get the bass you desire. Or equalize it to your heart's content.
The Tektons are good, but to compare them just like that to 20k speakers is just not so straight forward. They should be compared to 20k speakers that are not really worth their price. It makes no doubt that with those small teams that know sound engineering, design and build their own speakers and sell them direct, you automatically reap higher quality for lower prices. For sure in some cases of 20k speakers, you pay for the bigger boss, the smaller boss, the designers, the many overheads, the retailer's margin and for the marketing. It does not leave you much in terms of real speaker quality if for the packaging!! Back to the Tektons, they are highly efficient, and getting a lot of very loud sound doesnt make much sense unless this is what you want. If sound quality with enough volume is your ultimate goal, maybe you ought to consider replacing your NAD with some nice tube amps (SET!!!) and get the Tekton Lore. You will be quite high on the scale of audio quality. If you want to get which for me is the best price/quality ration in terms of speakers, you would want to look at XTZ. Their sound quality is just near perfect in every parameter, and they are not very fussy about amps, even if of course they will improve a lot if you upgrade them. The XTZ Divine 100.33 are pure marvels http://www.xtzsound.eu/product/divine-100-33, and the 99.36 will give you more bass if you want that, and you can upgrade them with the Beryllium kit later. http://www.xtzsound.eu/product/99-36-flr. A friend of mine just did that and he is now in the audio nirvana. They are absolute audio jewels, designed in sweden, components are all european and mounted in China for costs, and you buy direct with XTZ.
thanks for the suggestion. I might just try to
get ahold of him.
@helomech
re: life story.. yeah , got
on a roll and by the time I was done didn’t feel like reviewing.. good point
though (oddly I hate writing but I seem to get on a roll within forums.. you know, the place you are supposed to be brief…)
re: floor standers vs. stand mount. I’m really into floor standing speakers over
the stand mount.. I like the concept of
individual drivers taking care of more specific tasks. Particularly if they are anywhere near
similar pricepoints. I will look into
your recommendations though
re: tekton business
model. Yeah, the website itself and the variety
of speakers could both use some clarity.. However, if the speakers are up to
par I’m willing to give a flyer on the others as I have some of the same tendencies
(focus on a good product but realize my strength is not the business/marketing aspect…)
@david_ten (2nd time)
re: ceiling height. correct, it will be in the basement
so only so much height as well..
re: headphones. I have a set of headphones that
I love (Audio Technica ATH-M50x) sound great and everything!!! I’ve actually been doing exactly what you
recommended the past couple of years but it’s just missing something that
speakers give…
@hddg
I think I am getting the
gist that these aren’t necessarily 20k speakeers but at their pricepoint most comments indicate the DIs seem
to perform very well. I will look into
those XTZs
@mofojo
pure speculation at this
point. I did the math and aside from my
time, the trip to Utah would cost about the same as shipping so if it gets to that
point, I would head out there,, audition, and bring home if they fit the bill…
@nitewulf
the new set up will be
stereo.. maybe 2.1 depending on what ends up happening.
Invest is not the word for it consume is. Buying any new audio is not a good investment sure a chance exists that what you bought may have future value but if ones takes the entirety of audio production since the beginning you would find that little has held value let alone increased. But if wanting high quality audiophile playback and at the same time hoping to conserve orignal investment then vintage audio is the best choice Western Electric RCA MI Vitavox Mottiograph Altec JBL Lansing Garrard Marantz etc if one buys wisely many of these increase in value and when used with some modern gear sing. Otherwise your just buying a loudspeaker to use for sometime till it fails is obsoleted or you tire of it you may recoup a small amount of its purchase on resale you might not.
@la10slgr, You said: "re: headphones. I have a set of headphones that I love (Audio Technica ATH-M50x) sound great and everything!!! I’ve actually been doing exactly what you recommended the past couple of years but it’s just missing something that speakers give…"
Th M50x is good. I'm not sure what you drive them with, BUT...have you heard a well put together reference level headphone system?
a reference TOTL headphone system (cans, components, and all cabling) will deliver for around 10K (purchased wisely) what 20K in a speaker system will struggle to, especially given your room, and that's if you go with something like the Tekton DIs which don't dent the budget like other higher end speakers will. And I'm being extremely conservative with the 20K favoring the speakers and realistic with the 10K on the headphone system (it can probably be done for less).
@david_ten: I tried a variety of headphones in the $200-$500 range (and was willing to pay as much) when I bought my ATs but honestly, these sounded the best to me and ironically were by far the cheapest.. I run them with a funky little tube amp I got off Amazon, can’t remember the brand or name of it.. Honestly, I have absolutely 0 complaints about the sound coming out of it.. none... but admittedly, sitting there with headphones on lacks a certain "Je ne sais quoi " (yeah, I looked up the spelling...) Can’t really put my finger on it but it’s there and apparently it lacks enough that I find it viable to explore the options I am looking at... Now, as far as a 10k headphone set up goes, no I’ve never heard something like that, not even close, but for the aforementioned reasons...
I do appreciate the suggestions though. If anything, something suggested but not utilized helps to ensure all angles are being explored and decisions are not being made hastily...
ROI is a standard financial term with a well defined meaning. I assumed you meant enjoyment per dollars invested, but can see others thinking you wanted to ensure that if you didn't like what you purchased you wanted as high a return (smallest loss) on selling the pieces as possible.
enjoyment per dollars invested =I would still suggest similar I get to experience many of the most advance tech in loudspeakers and transducers and I still suggest RCA MI Lansing WE Altec JBL a bit of old and a bit of new is the best investment in sound and $
In that small of a room I would go with SET amp - no question. Decware makes amazing stuff for reasonable cost. Their interconnects work well and a cheap compared to most. Check their site. Pair that with a Zu Omen speaker with Radian tweeter upgrade. Throw in a decent source and your done. Trust me, BIG sound, great tone and if you end up needing more bass add a small sub. I have this set up in a room just a bit bigger and it’s amazing. I run Zu Omen Defs w/ Radian tweeter upgrade. Oh I don’t need a sub either. IMO Zu is similar in many ways to Tekton from what I've read.
The monkey on your back, or in this case, the monkey in the room is The Room! @helomech nailed it: you are really constrained by your room. 9X11 by??? 6 to 7 feet since it is a basement??? Cinderblock???
You really should consider a 'near-field' setup like the one @helomech suggests. Taking the Tekton DIs out of the equation, you generally should be able get a higher quality speaker if you choose a monitor over a floor stander, for the same spend. You have said 2.1 is a possibility...it would be great if you could incorporate a sub with the monitors, or preferably 2 subs. But the room is going to limit this...it will be easy to overwhelm the room, so something that is delicate, has a smaller woofer, and doesn't go down super low. If you don't, the excess energy will just get sent up the walls and the flooring above you, and into your home. You've said you like hard rock. : ) Given the room size, front porting speakers or transmission line speakers that port to the front or to the bottom would also be good options.
Talk to Eric. Maybe it is better to go with one of his other models, and incorporate a sub, one of his or another brand's. I still think the DIs will work, just leave a sub out of the mix, and plan on major room treatment in your situation. @teajay recommends Linear Tube Audio as a fantastic pairing for the DIs, and this would help you accomplish (along similar lines) what @last_lemming is recommending.
Given your room, I still recommend a headphone setup as a very good option. I purposely mentioned the 10K level to give you a feel for what you could accomplish for not that much more than your stated budget of 5-6K. The 5-6K, wisely applied to the complete chain will easily get you to around 85% of what the 10K spend would and will kill the equivalent spend for a speaker setup. Plus you get to take the room completely out of the equation. Set the room up for comfort and use, as you prefer, without having to spend a dime or time on treating it.
but listening to music on headphones is a completely different experience than listening through speakers. you don't feel headphones moving your body and the furniture. there's something to be said for that...
+1 toddverrone. Headphone systems are great but not the same experience as speaker ones are. Putting together a dedicated listening room is a great experience.
With awareness that many of my suggestions have previously been mentioned, I would In this case (small 9x11' room), develop a near field system, based on a pair of two way monitors selected based on considerations for room size, speaker placement and room treatment. Then find a compatible integrated amplifier and desired source components.
If possible I would consider placing speakers along the 11' wall. I would consider putting equipment rack to either side of listening position. This will provide opportunity for largest soundstage, an advantage over headphone listening.
I would consider treating walls behind speakers, at 1st reflection points, behind listening position, and the use of bass traps in corners. I am a DIY guy with this approach. Look up ATS Acoustics, Piper City, Illinois, a great source for information and products (no affiliation, just a customer).
Again, selection of speakers need to be made based on the aforementioned considerations.
Hey guys, thanks for keeping the conversation
rolling!!! As I mentioned, I really
appreciate your input as I am getting exposed to a lot of information and you
guys are forcing me to really think through and define my objectives…
+2 toddverrone regarding the headphones...I appreciate
the suggestion David_ten but headphones are not the route I want to go
Now, regarding monitors....
I hear you guys on the size of the room and
monitors being a logical fit.. I have looked into a couple and by the time you
get the speakers and do something about stands we are right back into the same
monetary ball park as towers…
I know there are some amazing monitors out there
but my preference is to have at least 3 different drivers to allow each one to
focus more specifically on a particular frequency range, thus, I prefer towers
(other reasons as well but I’m trying to work on that succinct thing…)
Having said all that, I will go out and audition
some monitors just to make sure I am not missing something (I asked for
suggestions so who am I to thumb my nose when they come???
Now, I hear y’all regarding putting these huge towers (DIs)
in such a tiny room. Not a single
objection from me on that… However, by
the time I get a smaller tower, with say 6.5 inch (maybe up to 8 inch) drivers,
that necessitates a sub for the lower frequencies, say below 35-40hz.. So by the time I invest in a $1-2k set of
towers, and a sub (or two depending on options) I am pretty much in for $2-3k…. Further, ignoring room size for a minute, I
have found the larger towers have a preferable sound when compared to the smaller towers (I
can comment on the SVS Ultras vs. Prime specifically) and am looking for the
sound that comes from bigger towers… in a tiny little room…
So, knowing I want to stick with towers, Let’s get it on
the table I am not married to the DIs by any means... I have had suggestions for XTZ and Zu Audio
come my way and am in the process of looking into them..
So I guess these are my parameters:
Towers with at least 3 drivers
Big tower sound quality in a little room (11x9
give or take…) I feel safe saying this is a key component of what I am looking
for…
2.0, 2.1, 2.2 is an option
Here’s my thought process on Tekton:
(DIs, $3k, Electrons $2750, Enzo 2.7 $2k, not really
interested in other models)
DIs vs Electrons: Why give up the higher performing specs
to save $250 and maybe/maybe not need a sub?
DIs vs Enzo 2.7: Enzo is only rated to 40hz so most
likely need sub.. add on $800 and we’re right back up to nearly $3k… that’s
assuming a sub is necessary.. If not, we
have a logical option here…
So as far as Tekton is concerned, it’s pretty much the
DIs or bust (with the Enzo 2.7 no sub option noted).. I even looked up the monitors and at $2k + sub
that gets right back into the same mess…
I did like the sound of the SVS Ultras ($2k) but as I mentioned
somewhere, I couldn’t determine if a sub would/wouldn’t be helpful as the room
I auditioned them in was pretty crummy for low frequencies… the SVS subs were
pretty much invisible…
I have the Enzo 2.7's as well as the Double Impacts. The Enzo's are okay but really do not have the bass or dynamics of the DI's. If you're heart is set on the DI's, just go ahead and get them, I don't think that you will regret it.
be careful looking at specs and wanting to get the best based on those. i definitely hear what you're saying about not wanting to get a 'lesser' model and then a sub that would add up to the DI. the problem is the room. those big speakers might be too much, and, if they don't work with your room, the fact that they have better specs won't matter. what having a sub will do is let you tune the bass by giving you more placement options.
however, you seem really psyched on the DIs. why not try them? you'd be out shipping if you don't like them, but then at least you'd know, rather than always wondering about what could have been. i definitely agree with whoever said to put your speakers along the 11' wall, once you get a pair.
333jeffrey, thanks for chiming in with that! Nice to hear an actual comparison... as far as heart set on the DIs... admittedly, they are what got me rolling on this whole thing and I do like the concept.... but im trying to remain somewhat objective and am willing to explore other options... i really do agree with everyone that the DIs are obnoxiously large for my purposes so if there is something smaller that brings the "it" factor I am more than willing, especially if it is significantly less $
@toddverone..regarding specs, yeah.. nothing replaces hearing them but when thats all ya got at the moment.... Like i said if it does come down to tekton i would most likely take a field trip to check them out in person...
still open to recommendations for other towers as mentioned above
also, forgot to mention, thanks for the room suggestions.. will definitely be diving into that stuff soon, mayne sooner than later if this near field stuff takes hold...
You don't have to have 8"+ drivers with that room volume to get deep bass. You can get smaller speakers with 6.5" drivers and get proper bass. My room is 13' x 18' with a vaulted ceiling. My speakers use dual 6.5" drivers and I have no need for subs. I have to partially plug the ports! Only 3 db down at 31.5 Hz, measured at my listening position. It's all about how good the speaker design is, driver quality and room interaction. As for monitors, I have heard Revel M22 in a room size like yours and they were glorious. If you have your heart set on big towers, big drivers, with or without 7 tweeters, better save your cash for some serious acoustic panels for the basement.
Jetter.. i see $450 but i get the idea... im all about that and am extemely interested but i would still need to figure out the towers.. maybe back to psb x2t with this sub as an option... I do love my PSBs but was ready to look into something different.. more research for me!
I would implore you to factor into your budget some proper acoustic treatment to neutralize the small space before you do anything. Highly recommend GIK panels given their price point and quality. Put bass traps in all four corners and hang some panels from the low ceiling to prevent comb filtering from early reflections. This will help disappear the ceiling. If I were you I would demo the KEF LS50 and call it a day. For that small of a room, this seems like a no brainer.
@529proaudio: thanks for the tips, im currently reading up on sound isolation and treatment.... as for the kefs, y'all have been persistent enough thst im going to make the rounds and see what i can hear before buying anything.. but it wont be until next weekend...
Rotarius is correct. You do not need large drivers or speakers to get deep bass in a 9x11 room. You keep mentioning that the cost of good monitors and a sub will basically equate to the same cost as some DI's. True, however, you could easily spend a couple hundred $$$ (more if using brand name panels) in room treatments trying to make a large floor stander sound good in a 9x11 room.
3-way and beyond speakers are highly overrated, especially in the typical domestic setting. I've auditioned numerous 3-way speakers under $5k and none of them outperformed my 2-way Spendors in coherency, dynamics, tone, or detail. Some of them had deeper bass due to their size, but were outclassed in every other respect. I have a plenty large enough room (25x15) for floor standers but still prefer stand mounted 2-ways.
Here's an almost risk-free proposition: order an integrated amp and some decent size stand mounters from Crutchfield, something along the lines of Monitor Audio Silver 2s or KEF LS50s. They only charge $10 for return shipping of each item. You can place some MDF board on top of cinder blocks for temporary stands. Give the system a try for a couple weeks. Of course, ask the Crutchfield Rep to confirm their return policy first, but total cost for this experiment should be around $35, assuming you'd need to buy the cinder blocks.
This might put to rest your idea of floor stander superiority.
Ok, so went and tested monitors... best they had to offer at either of the 2 places in town was svs ultras (admittedly, one place the guy heard my tool cd and wasn't going to let me get within 3 feet of his equipment.. if that's his thing then he doesn't need my money so I left...) they weren't bad but weren't quite what I was looking for either...
@helomech, that's a thought (getting some ls50s for in home...)
@la10slgr I am a DI owner. Basically bought them to prove to myself they weren't all hype, but never thought they would displace my much loved B&W 804s. They did. They are superior in all aspects. I was surprised. I am now, in fact, going to send them back for a DI SE upgrade. Like you, I don't have over-the-top electronics. I'm using a Denon 4520 to power them. Despite that, everyone that hears them, that were already use to some pretty decent B&W product in my HT, are just blown away. I am now going back through my signal path and upgrading things. Every time I do, the DIs take advantage of the change. Even with my lowly 4520 still at the end of the path. It's looking like a major amp upgrade will be in my future though. I hope Santa has good taste in separates.
Bullitt, have you tried tubes in the signal path at all? Does your 4520 have a preamp input? I have an older Denon 5803 that I picked up in a pawn shop for $150. Score! Its amplifier section is pretty descent. You could probably find a used tube preamp into the Denon and you may be amazed at the color and vibrancy it brings just for a test to see if you like it. The DIs are easy to drive so the wattage of the 4520 is probably fine for now. IMO through my experiments the preamp is possibly the most important thing in the chain. I am sure 50% will disagree.
been "off the grid" for a while so figured I would update... I want to thank everyone for contributing (within this thread, messaging, and in a couple of cases actual conversations..) and helping me think about the "investment" from a variety of angles.. I took that little field trip to Utah and got to audition the DIs live and in person. On the negative side, the DIs were the only speakers available (no Enzo 2.7s or Electrons lying around...) On the plus side, they sounded pretty amazing... The "room" was a small-medium size warehouse so I can't say what they will sound like in my room but here are my impressions: 1) amazing clarity and detail.. On one song I have listened to for well over 20 years the clarity of the guitar confused me a little as it sounded different than what I am used to, can't wait to experience that with all of my favorites... 2) size is large yes, but not as obnoxious as I feared.. Especially considering they were sitting right in front of the new ulfberhts... those things are ridiculously tall!!!! no, I didn't get to listen to them... 3) bass was surprisingly ... light? I chalked that up to being in a warehouse and actually felt a little relieved as people have mentioned the bass would be overwhelming in my room... so as it is, I have 2 big boxes in my living room..
Why in boxes in my living room???? Well, the project has been going slower than I had hoped but I am hopeful things will really be picking up here in the next couple of weeks... but the good news is the room has grown to 10x14 ft as it moved to a different area of the basement... Also, I am learning all about sound dampening/isolation and have my fingers crossed that a sweet little integrated will be coming my way... I don't want to jinx it...
@la10slgr: Congratulations. Great news about your room! Looking forward to your impressions and evaluation of the Double Impacts (I believe that is what you went with, correct?).
I know that I am ridiculously late to the party on this one, but for whatever it’s worth, I can’t agree more emphatically with the truth that you simply can’t know how a given speaker is going to strike your fancy until you have heard it in your room, with your music, connected to your equipment. I’ve had an embarrassing number of speakers pass through my listening room over the years and I have regularly been surprised – both on the positive and negative side of the ledger – by how a particular design sounded. I also want to say that I’ve come to feel strongly that if you’re going to purchase a speaker directly from the manufacturer, it needs to come with a reasonable audition period. Speakers with dynamic drivers (I don’t really have any experience with planar magnetic or electrostatic designs) are mechanical devices and I’ve no doubt that the sonic changes that come with the mechanical break-in of the speaker surround, "spider" and so forth are real phenomena and not just psychological artifacts. So, it’s a matter of spending a reasonable amount of time with the speaker in your own environment, rather than reading specification sheets, etc. For whatever that’s worth!
Tekton Design offers a 60 day home trial. Most direct to end-user speaker companies do the same and it is absolutely worth taking advantage of. I would not have purchased the Tekton Double Impacts without a home trial guarantee.
+1 also rebbi. I have had the same experiences as you in the past. I have also found what a particular reviewer thinks is great sounding may just be OK with me at best. They have prejudices when it comes to sonic personalities and often have different sonic priorities.
I will be getting the DIs from Mike at Audio Archon- he's a very good friend. The home theater reviewer terry London is also our good friend. I will say this- I am a high level professional musician, been playing 37 years and I know exactly what every instrument sounds like in the real world, my ears are good and accurate as ears can be. I'm also somewhat of an engineer I've done tons of studio and home recording over the years. Anything terry London says can be 100% trusted, he and Mike Kay hear like musicians. My entire system has been recommended by terry and Mike, they're never been wrong. Yes these speakers are better than $50,000+ speakers. Furthermore magico Wilson etc suck, they sound like hi if not real music. They spend more on advertising and people buy into it and pay insane amounts of money for inferior speakers. I do agree with one of the posters in this thread that everything matters- wires, DAC, player, amps. But I do think speakers make the biggest difference in the sound. I also agree you have to hear them in your room- the room is huge in the equation. Terry has said these are the best speakers he's ever heard, I believe him. If you can afford the $300 to ship them back if you don't like them by all means give them a try, but to the original poster I would suggest better electronics as well. The best pre the three of us has heard? Linear Tube Audio microzotl a bargain at around $2000. Best DAC- concert Fidelity, wires MG cables. Power cords Furutech. Power conditioner Furutech. Get all these and the DIs and you'll never need to buy anything again for a long time.
Oh one other thing- I'm married and anyone who is can relate to the wife acceptance factor. My wife has a bachelors in interior design and always complains my Grand Veenas are too big for our living room. She's gonna really freak when I get the DIs since they're bigger. But usually they get used to it once the speakers are in the room. Plus we finally got a new fridge stove and hood so she's super happy and I'm hoping it will ease the blow when the speakers arrive. Maybe you can get something new for the house to appease her.
Sslide, thanks for your comments. Most interesting and good for us to hear. Please remember what may sound good to you and Terry may still not be someone else's sonic bliss. We humans hear differently, have sonic flavors we prefer, and nothing in the world of audio is absolute except the fact that all preferences are subjective with no right or wrong. I am constantly amazed how some folks praise gear I have not really cared for as well as the reverse.
I am sure some like the sound of Wilson speakers better than Tekton and that is most understandable. It is just the simple truth about our individual preferences.
I can't argue that everyone hears differently, just as no two voices are the same. One of my best friends has Wilsons and they just leave me cold. I guess the only thing I would say is in my case what I hear in any stereo is more objective than usual because of my many years as a musician. As I said before I've heard every instrument many times in the real world so I know exactly what everything should sound like. And please believe me I'm not trying to be arrogant or a know it all. And as I said I haven't yet heard the DIs so I can't say anything about them until Mike ships them to me in the next 3 weeks. I'm sure they're amazing and I'll weigh in again once I have them in the house.
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