Hello uavnola!
I can feel and understand your worry about your vinyls collection wellbeing and the clean surface of your beloved ones, as only the clean record can guarantee the high quality sound and pleasure while listening to it.
I live near Glasgow, and I’m afraid the vinyl washing services are not available anymore around here. This is the reason I own my record cleaner and since 2020 I’m happily use it in my home. And I can fully recommend it. This is the Vinyl Record cleaning machine - The Vinyl Source Record Cleaner ("Vinyl Maid") -
https://www.thevinylsource.co.uk/product-page/vinyl-record-cleaner-lp-washer-cleaning-machine-6-records-per-batch-uk-made
, which I can use for less than a pound per record. Luckily, I can also clean more than one record at a time (up to 5) and control the whole process easily. Another good point is its price, which is a way under 500 pounds. Just have a look on the website mentioned above. Cheers! jm-audiophile
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My not-so-brief Spin-clean routine for those that might need to explore the method or process in more detail.
There exists pages of detailed vinyl record cleaning devices, methods, and chemicals because we are a passionate group of listeners. I’m on a low budget and never purchased or used any of those very impressive cleaning machines. I have a pretty good ear for detail, a usb microscope on my iMac, and don’t mind spending the time to do what I find is a thorough cleaning of my vinyl. I will get to the point. I use the latest version of the Spin-clean device and set up my cleaning area by making that area as pristine as possible. I follow the Spin-clean directions with a few variations. I pre clean the vinyl surface in various ways depending on what I can determine cannot be easily removed in the cleaning process. That would be mostly visible fingerprints, dust/dirt, any liquids such as bodily fluids from a sneeze, cough, or blowing. This, I do with simple rinse under the tap under my kitchen faucet. If it is minor, I use an old Discwasher-type brush gently in the direction the stylus would normally trace. Keep fingers off any part of the vinyl where the stylus will track! If smudges and fingerprints persist, I use two drops of Dawn dish detergent in a 3-4 oz. container and with my finger (plastic or vinyl disposable glove is good) gently move back-and-forth with the grain until it is visibly erased. I use distilled water from a spray bottle and wipe, following the direction of the stylus movement with a clean microfiber cloth (I have micro fiber cloths exclusively for cleaning vinyl only) then place my vinyl into the Spin-clean washer device. Following the directions the manufacturer describes I spin clean up to fifteen discs per batch and thoroughly clean the Spin-clean container between batch/sessions. I don’t spare the distilled water. Immediately dry each vinyl record with care after I’m sure there is no Spin-clean residue left. That often takes a healthy spray of distilled water sprayed liberally across the vinyl over the sink. After a good wipe (place the vinyl on a flat horizontal surface layered with a couple of microfiber layers) with the microfiber cloth I dry on an upright drying rack checking again, a close visible inspection. If I don’t like what I see. I start over! Once dry, I place the vinyl into a new sleeve/jacket. You will experience better quality music, and unfortunately you may expose some surface noise as well. A clean vinyl record should have a nice shiny surface if you are successful. I do clean new vinyl prior to playing it. I hope this is brief, but clear enough to understand.
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After being frustrated with compromised cleaning solutions, I dove into a Kirmuss Ultrasonic $1199. It cleans 2 LP at a time and can do an amazing job of restoring records but is quite labor intensive. It often requires your attention for half an hour or more to clean 2 LPs. At the end you are buffing with a microfiber cloth which created static for me at 7800 ft altitude. The Kirmuss cleaning solution is expensive and you will go through faster than they imply if you do all the cleaning repetitions. Yes, it can result in an extremely quiet surface probably unmatched by any other cleaner and I was able to clean some scratched records so well the stylus tracked deep enough that some scratches were not heard. However, you may also end up with a bit of residue on the stylus if anything in the process is not perfect.
After burning out on this process my friend loaned me an Isonic CS6.1 Pro Ultraonic $999. It cleans up to 10 LP at a time so is popular with record store owners and those with large collections. I found it did a great job of improving my records that had been kept in good shape but needed a little work so I could easily enjoy again. It has a very fast spin dry cycle that runs after the 10 minute cleaning for 10 LPs and leaves the LPs dry and static free. It has a cleaner fluid that works well with tap water (Kirmuss requires distilled water). I do a rinse cycle when using it. I even use the spin dry now after deep Kirmuss cleaning to dry and eliminate static.
I found out that the Kirmus is a modified version of the isonic P4875-NH+MVR10-PRO. If you have a Kirmuss you can buy an adapter from Isonic MVR10-PRO-P $335. This will give you the option of either method of cleaning. The Kirmuss for complete restoration if needed or a 10 record solution for nice improvements to your collection with minimal hassle...storing in MoFi inner sleeves after cleaning. Now I can enjoy each play with a quick carbon fiber brush clean.
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mijostyn
I have yet to see scanning electron microscope pictures of records cleaned by various methods. It is all assumption, all of it.
Nonsense. It's easy to play a dirty record, clean it, and then play it again but in proper condition. You could literally count the reduction of ticks and pops. There's no question that a clean LP sounds better than a dirty one. The cleaner, the better.
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@pindac I have yet to see scanning electron microscope pictures of records cleaned by various methods. It is all assumption, all of it. Some is actually mythology. IMHO the best cleaning method is the one that is most convenient, fast and uses vacuum drying. Others feel differently and that is why Howard Johnson's made 28 flavors.
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@jlangloi please, what is your process? I like the product from the video I have just watched.
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Well, however we do it, we all seem to agree that clean vinyl is better than dirty vinyl!
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has OP told us his budget?
I manually scrub the heck out of dirty LPs, it's amazing how quiet and wonderful an old LP I have played a million times since the 60's can sound. New shape stylus goes deeper in the grooves, so get them clean!!!!!
Batches of 10 while listening, dead center, great imaging, very enjoyable.
my mix: cleaning fluid they give you, juice it up with extra alcohol, add a few drops of JetDry dishwasher rinse stuff.
plastic picnic table cloth from Party Store, doubled on top of .....
Cover paper label with top of plastic soup container from Chinese Take Out
Spritz with manual spray dispenser.
Scrub vigorously, deep into the grooves, with baby scalp brush from Amazon
Spin gizmo for rinse only, distilled water from CVS (it's there, they might tell you they don't have any, but it's there).
Pre-Dry with cloth (while dripping excess water back into the tank).
In the drying rack, fits 10.
Put on the next LP.
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I’m definitely in the minority here, but I use the Spin-clean device and use my own, somewhat different routine with very good results. I can detail the process that I follow if necessary. Labor intensive routine but I’m happy with the results.
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@wfowenmd Right on Perfect Vinyl Forever is excellent and an affordable way to evaluate IF a person values US cleaning before making a deeper $€£¥ plunge.
I bought two consecutive MoFi and ran one thru enzyme the Nitty Gritty, sent the other to PVF ( version 2 archival )… needless to say…i have a Degritter…now
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Sorry if some sage has already mentioned it…. but contaminants pre and post process are EASY to see under black light…..
carry on
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@mijostyn Stated, "I am stuck following my own logic which I admit is based on assumptions."
@hsounds stated, "I will tell you with all of my research there is not one cleaning method or brand that is perfect."
Using the PAVCR Manual Method, the creation of this method for cleaning Vinyl is based on a very clear Text Book Direction. Assumptions on the methodology are not needed, just as assumptions are not needed when following any good recipe.
The Author of the PAVCR has supported many inquiries made and in doing so has proved to be a great tutor in conjunction with the written direction.
In relation to perfect cleaning methods, the PAVCR Manual Cleaning method, has superseded my other methods used and is one that will be very difficult to not use. The results have been thoroughly impressive.
I describe the cleaned LP using the Manual Method as having been purified.
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The KL uses blowers to dry the record ... this is just as bad, maybe worse than plain air drying in a rack. Any contaminants dissolved in the water remain on the record as water evaporates. This is the main reason I did not get one ...
It may sound bad on paper, but it works fantastic in practice. It is amazing how clean an LP is after coming out of one of these machines.
The set up is also awkward with a tank on the floor.
I have the self-contained cln-lp200 model. It offers one-button convenience that makes record cleaning as simple as pie.
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I have studied this big time. First the most important thing is you clean your records. I can hear the difference in Tergiclean, AI, Project, and a few others. With some processes out there they have no options for a rinse. Hopefully without tap water. I think you can do a great job with two spin doctors. One to clean and one to rinse. I will tell you with all of my research there is not one cleaning method or brand that is perfect. Typically because of cross contamination and over cleaning. Btw. The HuminGuru gets into this country without being UL certified is they classify it as a toy. I’m sure an object that holds water and plugs in does not need to be safe. Also, To truly remove the contaminants you would need a HEPA filter which would be clogged after the first record. This is why a separate rinse is so important. The only thing you want touching the record groove is the stylus. Every record needs at least one good cleaning.
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Back in the day, I had two small rectangular, metal tubs made for me by a friend. I’d fill it with warm tap water and a bit of rubbing alcohol and 3-4 drops of dish soap. I had some dowels and put a record on the dowel and insert it into the tub and spin it around for a few minutes. Then I’d put the record, still on the dowel into the second tank that was filled with distilled water and spin it for a few minutes. Afterwards I’d put everything between a couple of books, give it a
spin or two and then let it air dry.
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I’ve tried many of these units and solutions with variable improvements. My best and most consistent improvements have been with Perfect Vinyl Forever. They’re a commercial album cleaner company. Their results are often so good that they rival the same album commercially recordered in open RTR and played back on my Studer RTR. They’re pricey, so I’m selective about the albums sent to Perfect Vinyl.
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@cleeds @dogberry The KL uses blowers to dry the record, https://klaudio.com/kd-cln-lp200t-lp-vinyl-record-ultrasonic-cleaner-dryer
Unfortunately, this is just as bad, maybe worse than plain air drying in a rack. Any contaminants dissolved in the water remain on the record as water evaporates. This is the main reason I did not get one. The set up is also awkward with a tank on the floor.
I would like to see an unbiased study on what method produces the cleanest record. US cleaners being better is an assumption based on assumptions. I am stuck following my own logic which I admit is based on assumptions.
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@uavnola I haven't read through all of the threads or responses here. So, if this has already been covered, my apologies.
Before jumping to the conclusion that the etiology of your dilemma here is dirty records, a few questions for you:
Have you examined your cartridge and stylus? Do you properly and regularly clean your stylus? How many service-hours are on your stylus/cartridge?
Regardless, a good record cleaner and/or record cleaning regimen is a good idea for anyone who loves records. That being said, here's a little heavy reading for you that is well worth your time:
Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records-3rd Edition - The Vinyl Press
Depending upon how much money, time and effort you want to invest in this, the Degritter Mark II would be a good choice if you want to go ultrasonic and convenience. For a considerably less expensive ultrasonic approach, you might want to check this out:
CleanerVinyl Ultrasonic Record Cleaning
Good Luck!
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I recently purchased the record doctor V which you were given a link to above and is very inexpensive now that they have a newer model out. I think it does a very good job, I make sure I basically have a flood coat of the solution on the record and rotate it with the brush several turns to work it into the grooves, then flip and 3 slow rotations with the vacuum and you are good. Albums are much quieter and takes less than 3 minutes per album. I’m working my way through my collection, and I don’t do this before playing an album just to get the collection clean at least first…I do clean new vinyl the same way. Be sure to buy the bottle of cleaner concentrate you’ll need it quickly.
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I own the Clearaudio Double Matrix Sonic Pro. It is extremely good. Not inexpensive. But the best!
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I recently bought a Humminguru with an extra tank so I could use one with some tergikleen and one to rinse. It’s an ultrasonic, but on the lower end of cost scale and seems to work pretty well so far. I tend to run one or two of the longer clean cycles depending on whether it’s a new or used record. It’s not a defroster, but for the price I feel like it’s a great deal. I did order it direct with several accessories (extra tank, cover, extra filters and wheels) and saved a fair amount doing it direct. Took about 2-3 weeks to arrive for what it’s worth.
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Loricraft 4. Has a strong vacuum pump although I've heard not quite as strong as it was before SME bought out Loricraft. Don't know if true.
But it uses a new piece of string so it's always 100% clean.
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With a MT-10, and assuming you also have a high value cartridge, you should not be playing vinyl that is not cleaned well. Period.
Utrasonic is the standard in my opinion. Several have been mentioned here. I have used the Audio Desk Systeme for many years and it improves all records, new and old. Amazed at how good some LPs from my high school years sound.
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I’ve been using the AudioDesk Ultrasonic cleaner for over 10 years having owned the original model and now the Pro upgrade. Cleaned 2,000+ records. Whilst expensive, it’s proven to be the best investment in upgrading the sound quality of my system. Even brand new records need to be cleaned.
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Degritter - really well designed and made.
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(a) have an audiologist clean out your ear wax (and do a frequency sweep at the same time, so you get a baseline of how your ears are hearing)
(b) ban your friend from your music room; he/she wasn't listening to the music, anyway!
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Like most things, the answer is largely dependent upon your budget. I had an old record doctor, which was generally effective if you worked at it enough, but very inconvenient. I was unwilling to play the price for a.Degrittet Which would have been my choice if money didn’t matter. I ended up with a Nessie Vinylmaster + And am generally satisfied with my choice. For me, it was a good blend of performance, convenience, and value. I’m sure there are better choices, but I suspect they would cost substantially more money
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@dogberry
From their spec sheet:. Drying is also handled safely with blowers
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I own and have used two record cleaning devices, and I use them to clean both brand new, and LPs I have purchased used.
The record doctor vacuum, and a generic ultrasound bath that has a record "rotator" device clamped onto it.
The ultrasound definitely cleans more grit and dirt out of the grooves that the record doctor vacuum. It is unbelievable how much quiter that records are after a good ultrasound cleaning.
However my ultrasound does not have a dryer so there is some manual drying work after they get their bath.
The record doctor vacuum can help but I use it a lot less now that I have the ultrasound.
If I could only have one cleaning machine, it would be the ultrasound.
The down side of the ultrasound is that it requires a 10 minute cycle. So not so desirable for cleaning prior to each play. For that I just use a spray cleaner and a microfibre. Just have to be careful about static.
But once you listen to a record that has been recently cleaned with ultrasound, you won’t give it up...
p.s. sorry for the typos, just had hand surgery,,,
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I go to my neighborhood audio store where they charge 50 cents for cleaning a record. It would take 400 records to break even and I probably have less than a 100 now.
And as Kurt Vonnegut said about a hundred envelopes....
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@uavnola
I own the Humminguru Ultrasonic cleaner. It was $500 when I bought it new about a year ago. It runs at 40 MHz (?) Lower than the much more expensive models. I think it does a really fine job. If it doesn’t clean it well enough the first time I run it through again. Record surfaces look shiny and dust free. It began as a startup. Their challenge was to build the best $500 record cleaner that could possibly be made. I don’t know about the $3500 models, this seems to work just fine. I use one drop of dispersant. Says you’re not supposed to use anything, but I think the records do even better if you have a drop or so of something. No alcohol! Ever!
FYI. I’ve been cleaning records for a long time. I bought my first LP in 1964. I’ve tried everything this works the best for me!
Bent
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Definitely look at Nessie. Beautifully constructed, quiet and effective. I replaced my VPI a few years ago. The difference was like night and day.
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@uavnola your statement "I was told that my records were dirty and to look into a good record cleaner. *, Could have Record Cleaning Method as the last wording
The Link will supply you with an excellent Manual Cleaning Method.
.PACVR-3rd-Edition
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dogberry
the only U/S machine on their site ... does not specify how it dries. I’d be very interested to read about how a machine looking like this performs vacuum drying ...
It dries very well. Perfectly, in fact. It never leaves any residue. Check with your dealer or Klaudio if you need more specifics.
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@cleeds You surprise me: the only U/S machine on their site (KD-CLN-LP200T LP Vinyl Record Ultrasonic Cleaner with Dryer) does not specify how it dries. I’d be very interested to read about how a machine looking like this performs vacuum drying:
Presumably there are vacuum wands on both sides of the record that apply themselves to the disc? Wonderful, if so.
Nor does it specify the U/S frequency used. Nonetheless, it may be a good choice if it fits the budget of the OP. And a contender to replace my combination of cleaners one day (after I win the lottery I never enter....)
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... one against U/S (they do not vacuum dry) ...
The Klaudio machines offer ultrasonic cleaning and vacuum drying. They really work.
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Two* answers so far, one against U/S (they do not vacuum dry), and one for.
I’ll clarify. Vacuum cleaning machines are generally cheaper, remove most of the muck, and do not cause much static on drying. They are noisier, by far. U/S machines probably clean a bit deeper (depending on U/S frequency and power used), but they blow dry and may increase static. They are often more expensive, but DIY machines adapted from devices intended for other purposes can be cheaper, though usually less powerful. Confusing, eh?
You don’t mention your budget, so I’ll try to cover the bases. A basic vacuum machine like a VPI will give you most of the benefits of cleaning, but will be noisy. You can get very close to U/S levels of clean with more expensive vacuum machines like a Monks or Loricraft.
If you choose to go ultrasonic, and want a better clean than from a vacuum machine, you’ll be looking at a Humminguru or Degritter (I’m assuming you don’t wish to plunge all the way to the very expensive machines like the KLAudio). You may have to deal with static if you have low humidity, and may need a Zerostat or Furutech Destat III for that purpose. Ultrasonic machines don’t last forever, and the transducers will burn out sooner or later.
My eventual choice (after a VPI, then a NittyGritty RCM), is to use a Loricraft, then a Degritter, then vacuum dry on the Loricraft, and use a Destat III. I’ve said before this has been the biggest upgrade. You can make your records sound better that way than by buying all sorts of new components. But I’m obsessional about clean records, and you may be more reasonable than me.
*I type too slowly!
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This one gets very good reviews and doesn’t break the bank, and using the cleaning fluid concentrate and mixing with distilled water makes it very cost effective to use as well, especially if you have a sizable record collection. This seller includes the dust cover free that I think costs $35 separately, which is nice.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_325RDV/Record-Doctor-V.html
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Have you been cleaning your records? I would suggest first you find an album you know well, which doesn't sound the the way it use to. Then find someone (record store maybe?) who offers ultrasonic cleaning, get the record cleaned and then listen to it to see if it sounds better.
If your album does sound better after having it ultrasonically cleaned, then delve into looking for a better cleaning solution
I'd also double check your players set-up and verify your stylus isn't worn.
If all your looking for is a cleaning solution, I'd recommend getting a Degritter.
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@uavnola How much do you want to spend? The best record cleaner costs $6000.
For value I would suggest The Nessie Vinylmaster. Any record cleaner that does not use vacuum drying should be avoided at all cost. This includes most ultrasonic units. The air is full of debris, if you fan dry or air dry a record that debris sticks to the vinyl rapidly. Vacuum drying removes all of the fluid and debris from the record. A dry surface is less likely to gather dust and debis than a wet one. Another factor is you do not want a cleaner that reuses it's fluid. Always use fresh fluid to clean a record.
If you want to go for broke the Clearaudio Double Matrix Sonic Pro is fully automated, uses fresh fluid for each cleaning and does both sides of the record at the same time making it the fastest cleaner out there, but it is not cheap.
If you are interested I can give you the recipe for a great cleaning fluid that is for vacuum cleaners only. It kills static and lubricates the record. Records are definitely quieter using this fluid.
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