My #@%$ Cat Destroyed My ARC REF 5SE. Soliciting Suggestions.
(Public service announcement-keep your pets away from your audio equipment)
I love my cat. But not as much as I once did :-) The short story is cat pee corroded the main board to my ARC REF 5SE.
Homeowners insurance doesn't cover repair or replacement because owning a pet means you assume liability/responsibility. Ironically, or strangely enough, If my neighbor's cat or dog did this, I could collect.
My options- Repair it. Fixing it will cost 7K. The main board alone is 6K. Buy a pre-owned replacement at close to similar price. And if I go pre-owned, what's the market on a REF 5SE with a destroyed main board. Go in a different direction.
"Homeowners insurance doesn't cover repair or replacement because owning a pet means you assume liability/responsibility." Makes sense! After all, whose fault is it, that you have a, "#@%$ cat" (your own description) in your house?
Judging by the number of "cat lovers" here... I'd make "lemonade from lemons."
First open the cat's "go fund me account" - "SAVE THE KITTY."
Post the cat's YouTube video of the cat in a cage with a subtitle that the cat has one week to live, before its executed, unless other "cat lovers" "bail" it out of "death row," referring the viewers to the cat's "go fund me account" - "SAVE THE KITTY."
You'll have the funds for a really nice replacement of your Ref 5SE in a few days!
Hell... I'll sell you mine for $10,000 (just like new)!
Circuit boards can be repaired, parts on the board can be replaced, If it were mine, I'd give it a try. I realize everyone can't do this . A few years ago I decided to dive in and truly learn about power amps, I've been purchasing old amps, rebuilding and repairing them. I purchased a used Oscilloscope and haven't looked back. I think its worth the try. You need to find which circuit was shorted out by urine, do a serious cleaning job there and start with verifying which parts are bad and if a circuit trace is damaged. Good Luck, Tim
I thought everyone find's their way here from the Love of music. Music Lover's have a good heart.
If only. This may be the most dispiriting thread I've seen out here. You've got to be a miserable, lonely person to ridicule a fellow audiophile and troll/hate on his feline companion. There are some wonderful folks out here but this place needs a much stronger sense of community and some improved manners.
Wharfy, I'm sorry about your amp. I had an old amp that I left on all the time, and my cat would sleep on it during the winter. The amp wasn't especially valuable and I just let her. If I were you, I'd practice my zen understanding and try to let it all go. I understand I'm on an audiophile forum but ... it's just an amp. Mixed into the nonsense here are some good recommendations. Perhaps you can enjoy the process of looking for a new amp! Good luck!
I thought everyone find's their way here from the Love of music. Music Lover's have a good heart. Obviously not this above guy! Please make your sixth post your last post. 😼
Unless parts are unobtainable, anything can be repaired. It's just up to you whether it is worth it to do so. If it was me, I wouldn't hesitate. You would spend approximately the same for a used REF 5SE vs getting this one repaired.
I would bite the bullet (never understood what that means) and get it repaired. But, that's me.
As for the cat, well, you have received lots of "advice" from cat lovers and non cat lovers alike.
Take your choice. However, this is a part of the family and an animal. They, like children are trainable and will let you know when they are unhappy. I would never allow a cat anywhere near my audio equipment. But, that's me. This is what happens when you have pets that aren't trained, or want attention. Well, it got your attention.
My question to you is, what are you going to do about cat so this can't happen again? no joke. The cat (like children) must learn that it isn't okay to do this. So, what will you do? If you do nothing, then the cat (like children) will run your house.
If the urine problem was that severe, which I doubt, I would get a new stuffed board and you are done. First, since this is what I do also, I would inspect the board and diagnose the problem and try to fix it before replacing the board.
I'm not a cat person. But, I've lived with them and know they have attitudes and issues like any other animal. But, if you don't teach this cat to never do this again, then guess what? it will.
So, here are your options.
1. Sell the pre-amp as-is with full disclosure. 2. Buy a used REF 5SE or better yet, just get a used REF 6, or 3. Keep the pre-amp as a paper weight and go to 2, or 4. keep the pre-amp and get it repaired. 5. Train that cat!!!!!!!! Because if this happens again or something similar, then it really is your fault.
Sorry to hear about your troubles, David. From another cat lover, I feel your pain. To those who are offering advice/reasons for behavior, though well intentioned, you may want to ask David whether he would like/need the advice. I mention this because, if unwanted or unneeded, that advice can feel like a lecture. To those who are basically saying, "It serves you right", you need to reexamine how you treat others. That kind of behavior is childish and uncharitable. I agree with gktaudio & teo_audio. I’ve worked in a business that designs and manufactures laboratory test equipment for the past 30 years, and 20 of that was on the bench doing electronic, mechanical, and optical systems repair. I’ve seen it all, and there’s not much that can’t be fixed. Parts can be replaced (if available), repair wires can be run, parts/boards can be scrubbed. The challenge will be finding a shop that is willing to take on the task, and if you can, I can’t imagine this repair coming anywhere near 6k. I wish you the best of luck!
So sorry for you're loss. The Ref 5SE can do amazing things to a system.
Not so sure what your marital situation is but if you think about this the cat might have really done you a favor. Why not turn a bad situation into a great situation?
While the Ref 5SE is great, you now have the opportunity to purchase a slightly used 40 year anniversary or a Ref 10. If cash wise that can not be done, consider the purchase of a banged up Ref 5SE, and swapping out the board into your existing case (assuming that the case is in great shape).
What you need (what we all need at times) is an old school tech with reasonable prices.. As of course they are rarer than hens teeth. My only suggestion is to call Northridge Electronics in Simi Valley , CA and talk to Tom. He has had and has I suspect numerous service provider accounts with major players over the years and is qualified and he has always been reasonable. I have shipped to him just for his service even though I had lived in a major metro area and there were repair shops there. Obviously 7k is just a bit steep. Hopefully he has not retired yet as hes getting close .
I haven't seen it mentioned on this thread but cats definitely do not like being left alone for extended periods. Maybe the delay you encountered contributed to the cats behaviour I was once told of a couple that went on vacation for two weeks (and presumably had a "cat sitter' for the duration) When they returned from vacation the cat immediately jumped on their antique cabinet, looked them in the eye and proceed to pee all over it
Very sorry for your situation. I agree 100% with teo_audio. I've repaired amps, preamps, crossovers and other gear with printed circuit boards, built circuit boards, amps, preamps, and more. I've rebuilt traces, cleaned boards, repaired burned board sections, and more. I would be very hesitant to declare it irreparable without actually seeing the damage, though I would not pay $6k for the board.
Would you be OK with posting pics? You can PM me with them if you wish. I won't do the work, but could possibly offer another opinion that aligns with teo_audio, which might encourage you to seek out a willing tech. The cost is substantial, so I encourage you to not give up quite yet.
Also, although you didn't solicit veterinary advice, anzaanimalclinic provided excellent information.
oh man, sorry to hear. This was always a worry of mine when I had big Levinson amp on the floor that all my cats sought for warmth. My new integrated fortunately fits on shelf with only an inch of room on top so they can no longer access. Glad to see you are a good, considerate cat dad and did not take it out on the poor scared kitty. if the new board includes warranty and testing once installed, I would do it.
Cat pee corroded the board? Sounds like it may have taken some time and several occurrences. Didn't you smell it, like the first time it happened? Cats can make reasonably good tacos, and maybe a pair of gloves, once skinned. When you replace the amp, maybe put it in a cabinet.
i see that harassing someone with sarcasm is your way of life.... After me this one.... Who is next?
Last time i dared to answer you today, you seemed genuinely surprized and outraged by my response.... And i guess you will be also now.... But think a bit about it and you will understand....
A+B = ?
« We need self conscious brain, any other brain is useless for us» -Groucho Marx
I have some experience with cat behaviors, it is common for cat owners to anthropomorphize reason(s) for cats behavior that they can relate to.
Urinating outside the litter-box is either a medical condition usually called cystitis, or a behavioral condition. I suspect your cat is behavioral. Behavioral conditions usually are related to you cat being unhappy or stressed about something. There are medications that can help with un-happiness or stress as it is often difficult to identify the source of the un-happiness or stress. Common sources are
Cat-cat
• Living alongside an incompatible cat • Despotic cat(s) entering or threatening to enter cat's home and/or intruding into resident cat's outdoor territory
• Cat-other animal
• Frequently visiting dog or new dog or puppy come to stay
• Cat-human
• New member of the family such as new baby or frequent visitors • Family member or frequent visitor displaying inappropriate handling and/or other interactions towards cat • Use of punishment such as verbal correction and/or physical correction (e.g., water sprayers) • Living as a pet when not socialized to people
Physical
• Physical disruption to territory such as building works, redecoration, new furniture • Moving house • Unpredictable and restricted outdoor access • Lack of key resources or inadequate distribution of resources • Irregular and unpredictable feeding times and cleaning of litter boxes
Health
• Pain
• From disease or injury and inappropriately managed (e.g., inadequate pain medication)
• Illness- commonly gastro-intestinal (chronic vomiting) or skin (itching/biting)
• Challenging medication administration
Sensory
• Intolerable and/or unpredictable noise (e.g., frequent episodes of loud music) • Strong smelling detergents, perfumes or other chemicals regularly used in the home • Regular removal of scent marks in the home such as facial secretions from facial rubbing
The above is from a paper from a Board Certified Veterinary Behaviorist and it does mention loud music.
You might ask your veterinarian for some help with medications if you can't identify the stressors.
You got your answer here regarding repairs. You can buy a replacement for the cost of the board so a repair from your perspective is not practical. Someone that works on audio gear may be able to beat the odds and restore the piece to a level worth having. I would put it up for auction here and eBay with full disclosure and just let someone else try their luck.
A lot of the responses here is why I am often reluctant to post a question in the forum. It disappoints me how so many here ignore our questions and take the opportunity to be sarcastic and often rude.
Where's the sympathy here? My image of audiophiles as very nice people just took a major hit. Take no delight in "schadenfreude" and don't be quick to criticize and give advice. These guys are like Job's friends, who were the source of the cliche: "With friends like these..."
Maybe someone should compile a list of "worst things my pets and kids did to my audio system." We could all commiserate.
Sorry for your huge loss. My worst incident was my cat knocking my tonearm and taking out the stylus and cantilever from my cartridge.
I’ve repaired many an audio item, and even done full parts removal from boards, 99.99% isopropanol based scrub and forced pressure spray wash on said board and chassis, and so on. And I just can’t quite see the unit as being irreparable.
Work, lots of work, insane work, yes.
But irreparable? no.
The scenario is more that ARC won’t and can’t do it at an effective cost, for them.
So they give you a price and option, that keeps them in their comfort zone. All reasonable for a company that tries to remain in profit mode. Looking at it without any projected emotions...they no one any freebies.
If you live in the big city and the tech is a ARC repair center or empowered to repair ARC, then you might get the same answer as you got from ARC.
If the tech is, again, in the ’big city’ they have plenty of other work that is far far less painful or insane, or less time consuming for far greater return... than a nightmare level work load and low profit margin rebuild -of the likes I’m speaking of. Thus the answer being the same as from ARC. Importantly, the big city techs...are mostly going to be specialists, not broadly experienced restoration specialists.
If it was me, to take a risk, I’d buy the unit for $500, or more properly, notably less than $500... and then spend a few days of overall hard complex nuanced expert experienced work... over a far longer time period (done in chunks)... and bring it back to life, better than original. Just...because. The work level and work load, in getting it back to order, and even the potential that it may not be possible... means that the purchase of the unit to be rebuilt, must be at a junk fire sale level..and then..the potential value, as a rebuilt item.. would have to be in my hands, and there is no incentive other than that to get involved, at all. At this point, if it was pulled out of a garbage dumpster by a competent and seasoned tech, of the highest order..and also in pristine external condition.... there is no doubt in my mind that it would eventually be repaired, fully. So, yes, repairable. but not effectively for you, overall.
If your cats' urine was acid enough to etch a circut board, your cat had an issue....and likely needed a vet visit...or.... -Litter box needed a cleaning....if you got hung up in traffic, that's one if it was used to 'regular maintainence' with its' box.... -Expression of 'discontent', if it was used to your appearance at the 'regular interval' ( they're as bad as dogs in that respect...). -Possesion jealousy...if you gave your pre more attention that it, they're known to pick your fav object....esp. if they're not feeling good or pissed at you for neglect for some reason.
If your pre getting doused, or anything else for that matter, was unusual...you were getting a message....an expensive one in your case.
Spouse and I have had a number of cats over our decades...the worst one did was claw lp spines. They are trainable to some degree, but you have to start with the kitten....the kitten you raise is going to be the cat you have.
Why is there a question here? Kill the cat, without damaging its coat. Then have your taxidermist mount it on its hind legs with its front paws positioned so as to hold your record cleaning fluid container. Then, place it next to your audio rack facing outward as a deterrent to its successors.
Bob is correct in that a cat or dog that has always been clean, has accidents when old, REALLY feel bad and don't understand. Any scolding at all is NOT called for! CLM, cats live's matter. All 9.
Don't put down your cat. It probably does have a health problem, more than likely a urinary tract infection. The cat haters here probably haven't actually owned cats. They are often more dog like with their owners. If you get a dog, you've gotta walk em and scoop poop. I had forgotten how much maintenance dogs are until we kept a lost one for a week before finding its owners. His barking set our alarm off twice while we were out, resulting in $125.00 in fines for false alarms. I liked the dog but didn't miss him when he was gone. I've owned 7 cats over the last 25 years , and only had one that went outside the box. She was 19 years old and terminally ill,and collapsed and passed and later that day. It probably killed her to know she went outside the box. I Never had trouble with cats destroying audio equipment; all have showed no interest in my turntable either.That being said, if you did have that amp repaired, any cat pee that is missed in cleaning will likely smell pretty bad when heated up. I wouldn't trust that the repaired amp would come back totally free of urine. Better to replace it in my opinion, unless they can guarantee they can get it all.
Wharfy, really sorry to hear about the damage. I have a cat also—and guess I should take solace in that my electronics are all sealed. I don’t like ventilation slots/holes. They are always an invitation for damage. Hope you can find an affordable way to get your music back in gear. As for all the cat haters on here—my cat is highly trainable and understands what we want and need. None of that is gonna help if s/he is terribly startled, which sounds like the case here.
BTW, if you weren’t home, how do you know what caused the cat’s behavior?
Not sure this would work for your situation. I had a fried circuit board in my central AC unit a several years ago and sent the board to Industrial Repair Service- 800-950-2349. They repair/ rebuild circuit boards. That circuit board was smallish and I remember the cost being just under $200.00. My AC worked fine with the new board.
wharfy - try to make lemonade. i have two cats i love - one of them, in jumping onto my Audio Note AN-E Lexus Signatures, shredded the woofer with his rear claws. i ordered upgraded hemp woofers, and invited my nephew, who’s pretty handy with a soldering iron, to help with the surgery. they sound even better than original! ironically, what i came up with to prevent a recurrence was to put cat toys lying around on top of each speaker - the cats are very smart, of course, and recognize they no longer have a flat surface to land on! Good luck.
Now, THAT is a cat! Cool to see the cat chasing a dog away! good stuff!”!!!
Wife had a cat years back, was she cool, yes, friendly and all, but pretty useless, our English mastiff and the cat would play like crazy, pour dog would push the cats belly with her big head, and the cat would look like a crazed mma fighter hitting her head with her paws, declawed of course. They were peas n carrots!
Rather than paying 7K for a repair, you are probably better off value-wise picking up a used REF6 for <=9K if you can (one was listed for $7,750 in June). Then upgrade it at a later date if you want (and if the upgrade is worth it, haven’t seen any reviews yet), for another $3K.
@wharfy, Oh my, that must have been excruciating when you found out. One thing I learn here is patience . . what to do when something terrible happens, instead of going with your initial reaction (me).
Im a novice, so pardon my ignorance in this regard, but is there anyone out there that could build and install a replacement board for a fraction of buying a new board from the manufacturer? If you could significantly cut the cost of replacement, while maintaining performance, that seems like a great option. I don’t know how many people have access to those parts and the expertise to do the work. Some members here seem pretty skilled.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
