Biggest difference is that one has a phono pre. More features, more money. They both have line pres.
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Ok. Can you explain me the other differences? Double volume adjustment and Level Attenuator for instances? Would be it wise to choose the more expensive Level Attenuator?
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Unfortunately they dont say much about the specs for these units. Inadequate to make a judgement on the cartridge output. Same with the volume controls. I'm not a tube guru either but am not familiar with these tubes at all.
I'm guessing most folks here have little or no experience with this brand.
Can I ask what drives you to these products? Are you aware you can buy some pretty good proven equipment in this price range that are better know in the hifi world than these pieces. Not saying they're bad, but I'm not sure anyone can really say anything about this brand. However, if you asked for recommendations in this price range you'll get a lot of responses.
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Regarding CA-03, I'm assuming the attenuator version doesn't add any gain, so it's cleaner sounding with better signal-to-noise ratio. If you tend to listen mostly at low volume then this version would be great. But if you like to pump it up at times, you might want to go with volume version, which I'm sure would sound pretty amazing too.
Either version of CA-03 will work with you Denon DL-103R. No need for a SUT. Just set the back switch to 100 ohms.
You are correct, CA-04 is just line-level preamp without the phono stage. You would need an external phono preamp with this choice. SUTs only bring low MC signals up to phono level NOT line level. They cannot work by plugging them into line-level inputs. SUTs need to be plugged into "phono" inputs. That said, if you do buy an external phono stage make sure it can accept MC cartridges or you will have to also buy a SUT.
Yes, you can plug the Airport into the AUX on the new preamp, just as you use the AUX on the Sansui.
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Can I ask what drives you to these products? Are you aware you can buy some pretty good proven equipment in this price range that are better know in the hifi world than these pieces. Not saying they're bad, but I'm not sure anyone can really say anything about this brand. However, if you asked for recommendations in this price range you'll get a lot of responses.
Sure. I have been investigating possible options for tube-based amplifier for quite some time and after studying extensively I have come to the conclusion that I prefer Japanese brands due to their values and philosophy of audio reproduction. Shindo (which probably is better known) is not easy to buy anymore. Audio Note Kondo is too expensive for me. There are a lot of other brands but I have heard so many great things about Yamamoto.
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Regarding CA-03, I'm assuming the attenuator version doesn't add any gain, so it's cleaner sounding with better signal-to-noise ratio. If you tend to listen mostly at low volume then this version would be great. But if you like to pump it up at times, you might want to go with volume version, which I'm sure would sound pretty amazing too.
Either version of CA-03 will work with you Denon DL-103R. No need for a SUT. Just set the back switch to 100 ohms.
You are correct, CA-04 is just line-level preamp without the phono stage. You would need an external phono preamp with this choice. SUTs only bring low MC signals up to phono level NOT line level. They cannot work by plugging them into line-level inputs. SUTs need to be plugged into "phono" inputs. That said, if you do buy an external phono stage make sure it can accept MC cartridges or you will have to also buy a SUT.
Yes, you can plug the Airport into the AUX on the new preamp, just as you use the AUX on the Sansui.
Thank you very much for your explanation. I primarily listen to jazz and classical music - everything from solo pieces to larger ensembles and orchestral works. I live in an apartment and I do not listen to extremely loud levels - I'm not hosting techno parties and desire a crazy subwoofer that shakes the floor. Rather I like an emotional and intimate listening experience with a natural soundstage with lots of depth. Sometimes intimacy can be acquired when you turn the volume up a bit and the music embraces you, but I wouldn't say that I listen to very loud music.
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My understanding is that the double volume level item makes me control the volume of each speaker which can be preferable if your room requires it. I'm not so sure what the attentunator does.
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A follow up question: How come there are so much difference in the price between the two? It seems that CA-03 is the superior model, is that correct?
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The Yamamoto tube is beautiful... And i trust japan audiophile engineer...
i cannot help you with your choice...
But Yamamoto seems a good choice...
My speakers are powered and a pre-amp with tube in my case and a equalizer made a world difference... but i am not on this price level...
Came back here once your choice is made and gave us a review...
I wish you the best...
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Linear TubeAudio Micro Z- otl by far the best sound value out there under $10k
David Berning designed and these guys took it to another level in this latest model.
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All is about synergy here for sure but as pre-amp for the price i will go Berning ZOTL too though ...
I regret it because i used it as headphone amp and the synergy was not there for my picky AKG 340... But i regret it as a pre-amp which i did not need at the time...
Then the difference of price is big and Berning is a genius then ... I concur with this suggestion ...
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We build a 6SN7 based tube preamp 2 chassis for $9k. If you are interested, I can send one to you for an evaluation.
Happy Listening.
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Thank you very much for your very nice recommendations.
I will look into the option of Berning ZOTL and your great offer, Bigkidz.
However I think I initially will prioritize synergy and therefore my inquiry is regarding the specific differences and an explanation of the terminology used. Perhaps you can assist me with that.
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Honestly I wish you luck but your theoretical approach to component selection seems more about buying into the marketing hype of a company most of us have never heard of than actual user experience or sound. Their website is heavy on that but really doesn’t say much about product design, specs, etc. That tube or its equivalent is used in a lot of medium-quality Chinese hardware, but pretty much nowhere else. Lots of experienced audiophiles and music lovers here but nobody seems to have heard of or listened to the products you prefer. Try going out and listening to actual equipment. Hope things work out.
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I’d reach out to Yamamoto to see which Pre they recommend pairing with your amplifier. Synergy should be great with both but they may have designed one of them to specifically pair with your amp. The double volume sounds like it’s a different label / terminology for a balance adjustment. Attenuation could mean several different things, could refer to gain as already referenced but without the ability to adjust attenuation or could be referencing the Pre’s ability to adjust the attenuation / gain. The ability to adjust the gain, attenuation if that’s what it references would be relevant when trying to match gain from various components. Shouldn’t be needed from your Pre to Amp if designed by the same manufacture and designed to pair together. As others have said, without understanding the lingo, tough to know what’s meant by some of the terms describing the various features. Attenuation could just mean one pre applies gain and the other is passive.
The more expensive unit could be targeting pairing their pre with other manufactures equipment, that’s where gain / attenuation matching becomes more critical.
Good Luck!
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If you are using the Denon 103R you may want to consider a step up trans in place of a LOMC phono input and run the step up output into an MM stage.
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Honestly I wish you luck but your theoretical approach to component selection seems more about buying into the marketing hype of a company most of us have never heard of than actual user experience or sound. Their website is heavy on that but really doesn’t say much about product design, specs, etc. That tube or its equivalent is used in a lot of medium-quality Chinese hardware, but pretty much nowhere else. Lots of experienced audiophiles and music lovers here but nobody seems to have heard of or listened to the products you prefer. Try going out and listening to actual equipment. Hope things work out.
I'm sorry if my messages come out this way. I must excuse my poor English.
I actually just want to learn more about the technical things. What is an attenuator and what are the advantages of this? How come two models have different prices? Are they specific power amplifiers or what is it? When I do have an MC pickup, what is the better solution, an integrated solution with a preamp combined with phonostage or individual components? How does a SUT go into this equation?
I merely want to understand more and learn more about HiFi.
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My advice:
1. You have convinced yourself 'I prefer Japanese', yet I was surprised to read this from their site's 04 description?
"The resistors are made by DALE, which has a good sound, and the condenser is a polypyrene film capacitor with low distortion in the main part
Most of the resistors of CA-04 are made by DALE in the United States. Many of the resistors made by DALE are made according to the MIL standard in the United States, and their sound quality is so superior that it cannot be compared with those of the same class made in Japan. Its reliability is also several levels higher than that of general use.
In addition, polypropylene capacitors made mainly in the United States are used for condensers. Compared to ordinary chemical capacitors, this polypropylene capacitor has a superior response to pulsed signals, and the distortion rate of the capacitor itself is also very good. Since the difference in sound quality between capacitors has a significant impact not only on the signal circuit but also on the power supply circuit, we are trying to improve the sound quality by adopting a polypropylene type capacitor for many parts of the capacitor, including the power supply circuit. In addition, the condenser, which greatly affects the sound quality, is filled with high-strength epoxy resin in an ebony case by the company to improve the sound quality".
Each maker must differentiate themselves, they have made this a large part of their differentiation.
I agree with others: consider well known, well reviewed components in your budget, consider future resale.
2 . Learn More about Phono requirements: RIAA EQ; MM signal strength; MC low output signal strength; SUT's relationships of xFactors/resultant Impedances.
Think long, not just your current Denon 103R, but future cartridges, both MM and MC. You want more impedance options than what the 03 model or most built-in MC offers.
3. Phono Signals REQUIRE
a. RIAA EQ to occur somewhere, and
b. Signal Strength BOOST up to LINE LEVEL which originally was 1 volt,
b1. boost MM and/or HOMC higher signal output some, or
b2. boost LOMC smaller signal up some (via a SUT) to go into a MM Phono for RIAA EQ and final boost up to line level, or
b3. all the way up including RIAA EQ (a complete self contained phono stage).
4. Learn about SUTs (I learned after joining Audiogon). Here's some SUT info I gathered while learning, after a bit of research it starts to make sense, or, like Bridge, simply follow the rules)
https://www.audiogon.com/systems/11318
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I’ve gone the passive route, Tisbury audio passive preamp, made in UK. I’m also using a smsl cd player with its own volume control, as well as the music hall ph 25.2 hybrid/tube headphone/preamp (own volume control), and the music hall A3 tubed phone preamp (own volume control). All these components hooked up directly into two NAD 268 power amps (class D) in a bridged mono block configuration. No need for a dedicated stand alone active preamp. Sounds great. This is one of 2 set ups I currently run.
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ps,
The Denon 103R is a spherical stylus, the most basic, dare I say PRIMITIVE shape, with only 25db channel separation at 1khz, which limits it's performance regarding imaging, and has the least life expectancy due to all the forces applied to it's very limited contact area.
Do yourself a favor, try an advanced stylus shape with large contact area with excellent channel separation and tight channel balance, and resultant long life expectancy
I often recommend
MM: user replaceable stylus
AT750SH advanced Shibata stylus shape on tapered aluminum with 30db channel separation/1.0db channel balance
MC non-replaceable stylus (lasts far longer than spherical or elliptical, (renewed by pros or trade in programs))
AT33PTG/II MicroLinear on Tapered Boron, with 30db channel separation and even tighter 0.5db channel balance for superior imaging, the largest contact area, the longest life.
of course there are others, I'm not dragging a round rock thru my grooves.
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Have you looked into purchasing this preamp yet? I don’t know what country you’re in, but in my country there is no dealer for Yamamoto. I was interested in purchasing one of their amps, because they seem to have a stellar reputation on the Internet (perhaps better known in the 1990’s) and relatively reasonable prices. But I found there is a 6 month wait to order their products with full payment upfront. Perhaps that isn’t an issue for you, but due to that factor I went with another option. I guess I’ll never know how good their products are.
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elliottbnewcombjr
"I’m not dragging a round rock thru my grooves."
It’s been a popular cartridge for over a half decade, with good reason. The denon 103 sounds fantastic if properly used with a SUT.
The late Art Dudley had a fondness for spherical/conical stylus, they are very organic and musical sounding. I'd have to agree.
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This is easy. Get an external phono pre-amp. It gives you ultimate flexibility and can sound better.
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My friend, met here, is in love with his DL103 cartridges, he brought two variations here, I was anticipating some unique magic.
They were easily bested he had to admit. I know many love them, I just shake my bewildered head, as I do when I come across so many very expensive Ellipticals.
Not all Christian Scientists, but cults exist, and will long after I'm gone.
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I don’t think you can go wrong with a tube preamp and a beefy solid state power amp. Which ever preamp floats your boat, go for it. I would try to audition any equipment first. A long trip is worth it to hear it.
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