Recommendations for MM Phono ~ Tube or Solid State

Endgame Allnic H-7000? 

@lalitk - you may want to ask this on WBF where they may have deeper knowledge of the SUT differences, I only know EMIA David Slagle custom makes some of the best SUTs, and is on my shortlist if I go SUTs which would require my purchasing a “voltage” phono stage in addition to my “current” phono. 

the WBF search advice is good

@noromance

I wasn’t impressed by Allnic H-6500. Surprisingly, my phono board in Accuphase Integrated sounded just as good as H-6500. Not sure, how much better H-7000 would be. Another observation, Allnic seems to have a very poor resale which somewhat deters me to consider buying new from dealer.

@kennyc

I am seeking suggestions on MM phono ahead of SUT. I am pretty much set on my choice as far as SUT. My dealer is sending over EMIA copper SUT to try out with my existing phono. In any case case, I will check out WBF. Thanks!

 

Why do you say Allnic has poor resale value?  Not based on my perusal of the for sale ads here. I guess it depends upon how you define "poor".

Is the EMIA specifically wound for your Etsuro Bordeaux cartridge?  I believe that is one of the reasons to buy their SUT.  I've heard systems with their SUT transformer, but, I have no way to assess the particular contribution of the SUT (the overall system sounded good).  

Dear @lalitk  : Just in september you posted this:

 

" My modest but carefully chosen collection of recordings shined through the foursome of 301, 3P, Bordeaux and H-6500. They allowed music to simply breathe, quiet passages were intimate and louder sections just as impactful without any distortion. The tonal balance was also impeccable, ensuring that no frequency range dominates or feels lacking, bass was tight and controlled, revealing subtle details and nuances that enhances our emotional connection to the music. "

 

What changes your mind of thinking in this short time ?  For that post you was " impressed " with that chain in your system.

 

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTOTIONS,

R.

Classic Audio MM Pro seems to check all the boxes. 

“Why do you say Allnic has poor resale value?”

@lewm

My earlier comment was based on sales data off USAM.

@larryi

I wouldn’t consider a SUT that is not specifically wound for my Bordeaux cartridge. Anything less than optimal in this application would be a worthless endeavor.

@drewdawg999 

Thank you for your recommendation. I will check it out! 

What do the sales data say?  Do Allnic components sell used at a bigger discount off the retail cost, compared to other major high end brands?

“Do Allnic components sell used at a bigger discount off the retail cost, compared to other major high end brands?”
@lewm 

That’s my assessment! In any case, Allnic phono sound and synergy with rest of my components did not exceed my expectations. 

@lalitk I also heard an Allnic phono stage w/ separate regulated psu in my system and it gave less than my more modest dual mono Croft. You might check Abbas Phono stages (I recently ordered a second; dual mono w/ inbuilt MC transformer). A number of owners find these stages render nearly everything you could want in music, as do his DACs. There’s more info to weigh on WBF.

As Raul pointed out, you seemed delighted with the H6500 barely more than a month ago. What changed? If you can figure that out, it might help in making your next purchase, more than accumulating subjective opinions voiced by strangers on audiophile websites.

@lewm @lalitk is correct on the resale value of Allnic. I've had 3 units all purchased used, less than 5 years old purchased for a 1/3 of what they go for new. I'm a fan of Allnic, but the resell value of their products isn't good. I would only purchase used. Their gear is built like a tank so buyers have that in their favor. Their equipment is great though!

What changed?
@lewm

Let me clarify further, after extensive listening sessions with H-6500, I couldn’t justify its price. While H-6500 sounded good, it was not substantially better than my phono board in Accuphase Integrated. The phono board in Accuphase Integrated is pretty darn good and I am now using it as my benchmark. If I am investing in an outboard phono, it should handily beat my current phono and justify the extra spend, right?

With SUT on the way, I wanted to accumulate MM phono recommendations to pity against my Accuphase phono. Again, SUT is a consideration spend and it would be prudent to try this option atleast with one or more outboard MM phono to make a proper assessment. Another reason for phono search is to accommodate my 2nd tonearm which will be used with a mono or stereo cart. You may know, I am getting my plinth built from Woodsong with dual arm boards.

I may end up with two phono’s to accommodate two arms or one that gives me everything I am looking for…I am hoping to accomplish this task with help of knowledgeable members like yourself.

Might want to check out Steve Guttenberg's experience with using SUTs.  Sounds (no pun intended) like an interesting pursuit. Have fun!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tAPAPmfscc&t=28s

More to the point, if you are investing in an outboard SUT, you can make the case that you don't need the H6500, because in paying for the H6500, you are buying its built in SUTs, which will become superfluous. The words that Raul quoted led me, and probably also Raul, to believe you had already purchased an H6500.  What you say here suggests you borrowed one, albeit you seemed very happy with it.  In my opinion, there is no trick to making a very good sounding MM phono stage these days. As a result there are many good choices, and if you select a reputable one, you almost cannot go wrong, except where your personal taste comes into play.  And for personal taste, you ought not to be relying upon the opinions of a wide variety of audiophiles who own a wide variety of systems and who may hear LPs quite differently from the way you hear LPs.  This may mean just take a shot at something.  If you prefer the Accuphase phono section to the H6500 (and it's not entirely clear that you do feel that way), that suggests you may prefer a solid state device.  Beyond that, all bets are off.

My recent experience with SUT is similar to that of Steve Guttenberg. I was so impressed with how much improvement a modestly priced SUT brought to my system that I questioned why I lived without one for the last fifteen years. SUT is the way to go if you're using a LOMC. A simple MM stage such as a Zesto Andros Spirit would do the trick.

scar972, Your thinking is a good example of faulty audiophile thinking.  Because you bought one SUT and compared it (evidently) to one high gain phono stage, you are drawing a universal conclusion that SUTs are superior to high gain phono stages (or at least that's how it comes across).  Suffice to say you like your new SUT better than your old high gain phono stage.  That's fine.

@psf4972

Thank you for your recommendation. I have heard of Abbas DAC’s, nothing but high praises all around, I will definitely keep in mind when I am ready to pull the trigger.

@moonwatcher - Thank you!

@j-wall I agree, Buying Allnic on used market is a good value. What took me by surprise is their very linear sound despite of all the tubes, H-6500 sound nothing like a tube component. I think it’s intentional by design as designer doesn’t want end users to hear any coloration which kinda makes sense. I am honestly spoiled by Shindo Labs, nothing else has come close to sounding that heavenly as my Monbrison preamp.

@scar972

Thank you for sharing your experience. I am hoping to hear next level performance by inserting a properly matched SUT. It’s a work in progress:-) 

Thank you for your recommendation for Andros. It’s reasonably priced and uses my favorite tubes, NOS Telefunken or Mullard’s comes to mind to further tweak the sound. 

@lewm I know it sounds that way but I’ve had several high gain phono stages in here over the last 15 years, they do sound different from each other and some are better than other for sure. But it took just one SUT to make me realize that it provided something I’ve never experienced before with any of my previous phono stages, the top end has never been as open and airy, and the noise floor is so low it’s almost nonexistent. I know it’s still not enough to make a universal statement but that’s how I’m carrying on going forward. Maybe I just got lucky that this SUT has a few loading options that plays well with my cartridges and also multiple inputs  for multiple tonearms.

Dear @scar972 : : Angelo and Levinson designed in those old times Cello electronics and both never were to good phono designers . Cello/Levinson amplifiers is other matter and very good ones.

The FR vintage SUT was and is only an average/mediocre unit from those times when in those times Denon, Audio Technica, Entré, Sony or Tachnics and others were at the top and I owned almost but the top Technics as afact I still own what for me is the best SUT ever Denon 1000, I own too an Entré and other Denon 340.

 

You own a just first rate room/system but that could not means that you are rigth about the phono/Sut because IMHO you are not and I agree with @lewm in this specific regards. Yes, that’s what you like and I think that you have to listen to a top today active high gain SS phonolinepreamp  and compare too vs live MUSIC seated at near field .position.

 

R.

 

“this SUT”
@scar972 

What is the brand name / model of your SUT ? 

Scar, now that you’ve provided more detail in your past history, I would say you have about as much data as many of us have to support our convictions. At some point one wants to stop experimenting and move on to other audio dilemmas. But after I found that some of my most closely guarded biases did not hold up to new experiences, my motto has become never say never.

@lalitk the SUT I experimented with is a modestly priced vintage Japanese unit, Fidelity Research FRT-4, it's been mentioned here quite a few times. Not saying it's the best or anything but I'm impressed with how it plays with my cartridges and I'd like to hear a few more SUT's in the future.

 

@lewm this is a newly formed bias so it's not etched in stone, I'm always open to learning and being impressed by other ideas.

 

@rauliruegas impressed that you knew my King/Cello phono is a Colangelo-Levinson design, kudos! I'm actually experimenting with the MM stage of a Manley Chinook at the moment and not the King/Cello. Amongst the high-gain phono stages I've had here are Tom Evans the Groove, Pass Labs XP-15, Linn Linto, King/Cello, Manley Chinook and a few lower priced ones.  

 

@lalitk try several tube base phono and end up with old Air Tight ATE-2 phono MM with their SUT ATH-1. Been several years now and happy with it. Pair nice with koetsu and Lyra. Check their new Air Tight phono ATE-3011

 

Dear @scar972 : Levinson founded Cello in the mid 80's ( I think ). I had the opportunity to listen his amp Duet and the Audio Suite with its integrated phono stage board ( the AS was a modular design for the customers choice what they need.) and I listened too his equalizer Pallete. Cello made it too speakers but I never listen too and obviously he designed what was and maybe is one of the 3 best ever open reel machines the :  ML-5a ( half inch.Well in its times was considered the ONE the BEST ).

However when he was/still working at Levinson company the " brain designer ", with out dimishining Mark in any way was J.Curl. I still own the 20.6 monobloks based in J.Curl design and I think that some Agon audiophiles remember the Vendetta Research phono stage that JC designed when he left Levinson/Madrigal

company and latter on his Blowtorch pohono stage too.

 

In the electronics today Parasound the JC models were and are J.Curl designs.

R.

 

 

What Raul says is correct to the best of my knowledge. The first Levinson product was a pre-preamplifier, a small active gain box to boost the output of any newly arrived LOMC cartridge in order to drive a phono stage, at a time when all phono stages were designed for MM or high output MI cartridges, and there may have been a SUT on the market, probably in Japan, but they were rare in the US. I think JC designed that unit, and Mark Levinson marketed it. This was around 1975. The advent of the ML JC1 (I think that was the designation) was timed to coincide with the introduction of Supex cartridges in the US, an early LOMC.

John Curl is highly regarded because of the Vendetta phono stage and for a part in developing the CTC Blowtorch phono stage, neither of which I have ever heard. Both of them are rare and very costly if you can find one. I have heard some of his other stuff. The amplifiers are great. The small signal stuff is meh, in my opinion.

@honeyooi 

Thank you for your recommendation. 

I just came across Mola Mola Lupe that seems to check all the boxes for me. From technical standpoint, discrete Class A gain stages designed exclusively for MC and MM peaked my interest. And there is IOS app that allows easy controls individual channel phase, mono or stereo output, and the subsonic filter. Not to mention, 4 fully programmable inputs. I am leaning towards Lupe until someone throws a curveball..LOL

Going to get one for audition before Christmas.

 

I cannot think of any phono stage that does not operate in Class A. It should not be a bragging point, but manufacturers do it anyway.

@lewm

There is more to Lupe design than just Class A gain stages. There may be other phonos taking the similar approach as Lupe but most phono preamplifiers designed both for moving magnet and moving coil operation use one gain stage to amplify MM cartridge output, with a second gain stage daisy-chained to the first in order to provide the additional amplification required by low-output MC cartridges.

The Mola Mola Lupe differs by having two entirely separate Class A gain stages, one designed exclusively for MM cartridges, the second just for MC. Both are fully discrete designs and are followed by an active analogue filter. The filter uses relays to switch capacitance and resistance in and out to achieve the different time constant values and, thereby, EQ curves.

Can you tell me another phono that takes same design approach as Lupe?

With respect to your desire to add a Miyajima Zero or Infinity, you should contact Robin Wyatt. He is the distributor and knows them well. They can be tricky to manage ground loop hum. I solved it with a dedicated mono SUT and phono…Miyajima ETR-Mono and a mono (only) Tecktron tube phono that Robin commissioned.

I am currently moving away from a Zero and ETR-Mono in favor of a MSL Eminent Solo and a Fonolab Pacto, custom built for mono. You might look into both for a mono rig instead of a Miyajima.

@lalitk When my Vinyl system is up and running, I have readily available, a few TT's even though one is my most preferred. I also have a selection of TA's, with one most preferred as the go to TA with a selection of Cart's readily available mounted in a selection of identical Headshells. 

Additionally, I have Phon's that I have been thoroughly impressed with and a few SUT's.

The above allows for Permutations to be produced which all can impact on the end sound producing changes to the end sound that are detectable.

Permutations have been produced through TT exchanges, TA exchanges , Cart' exchanges, Phon' Swapping, SUT Swapping, Tube Swapping.

The outcome of exchanges having occurred has been that the Sound being produced has remained as a thoroughly enjoyed presentation and really wanted to be lived with. Then the idea will arise to hear a certain Track in a certain known Permutation for the equipment set up, and then the 'What If' develops whist experiencing the Track being replayed.

The point being made, is that it is your time, your investment, your hobby, your stimulus. You do not need to justify to anybody why a new experience of your music being replayed within your home through your system, which has thoroughly impressed has also become desirable to experience it using different electronics as the tools.

From my end it is the expanding of experiences through encountering audio equipment in use, that really assists the enthusiast to discover their preferred place, for the end sound that is to be produced from recorded music.  

If the Gastronome wants to experience their 'Perfect Cote de Boeuf Meal ' accompanied with a different sauce, so be it, no one else will be eating from their plate.     

Lalitk Yes, Raul’s 3160 (which I own) and his current 3180 phonolinepreamp both contain entirely separate and discrete MM and MC stages. The 3160 is the finest SS phono stage I’ve ever heard in my home. And the 3180 is said to be better. Both are dual mono and true balanced designs as well. And as the name implies, a built in balanced linestage is part of the package. So the phonolinepreamps are not “just” a pair of phono stages that differ in gain.

@lalitk The Essential 3160 as a used item purchase is not a bad proposition to consider.

These are able to be found for sale at approx' 80% decreased in value since the item was originally released, it must be worth a Punt at such monies.

There should not be any monies lost if able to be purchased for approx' $2.5K.   

@pindac

I couldn’t agree with you anymore. It is through our own experiences, we achieve the perfect outcome desirable to our ears and preferences.

@worksbau

Thanks for sharing your experience with Miyajima. I will definitely keep that in mind and share with my dealer. Fono Labs SUT is also on my radar as I did converse with Fono Labs senior engineer. He has been very helpful in answering my questions. If you don’t mind, please do share your experience with MSL Eminent Solo and a Fonolab Pacto.

Pindac, Please show me where to buy an Essential 3160 for $2500. I see that there was one on US Audiomart for $3K and sold.  I'd actually consider a second unit. They are quite rare, probably more rare than a Vendetta by John Curl.

@lewm I have been watching the market over a period of time wondering if one had been exported to the UK. During this time I have seen a few histories for the Essential 3160 being sold, where it has been with a price of US and Canadian Dollars, where it has been $3K and less.

Keep an eye on the Market as a upgrader to the 3180 might just dump the Phon' to get the deposit for the new item.

What caught me out is that certain US Brands in Phonostages and Amp's that are imports to the UK are discovered to be heavily discounted when ending up as sale items in the UK used market, using the US used pricing for the 3160, I suspected the same Phon' discovered in the UK as a used sale would not stretch a budget much more than £1200. Such a price to have access to such a Phon' would suit me just fine. I can then put a face to the name, and learn how much spoken about is actually backed up by the device performance.  I would be left with an interesting option, where I could pass the device on to a EE Friend who specialises in Phonostage designs, to see what could be done to modernise the Phon' and maybe eek from it an end sound more attractive to my wants. I could also ask the same individual to investigate a Valve Circuit to be inserted to see what can be achieved. I could also cut losses and happily sell on as a quick sale, most likely incurring a loss, if all was not with an attraction to my tastes, and use the remuneration of monies to get back on track with other very attractive SS Phon's known to me and proven attractive through mt already experiencing them in use.

Additionally, if a £1.2Kish purchase was enough to steer me away from considering my other options on attractive in use SS Phon's, then I would be better off financially by sticking with the Essential 3160 at an approx' £1.2K option, even though as a design it will be obsolete and superseded by the other designs available today.

 I have direct experiences of hearing Modwright and VAC equipment that are both Amp's and Phon's that were bought in the UK as a used item with a cost that was less than 50% of the used item Value it was seen to be selling for in the US.

@lalitk I picked up the Solo that I previously put 200 hours on for my dealer, so I know it well. I had my Zero installed at the same time, so I did a lot of A/Bing. I ran the Solo through a Supratek Cortese LCR high gain phono, and the Zero through the ETR- Mono SUT and Tektron mono MM phono, so it wasn’t a super controlled comparison, but did reveal enough for me to make the switch.

In a nutshell, the Zero sounds wonderful but, to my ears, the Solo edges it out with more detail and air at the upper end. I suspect two reasons for that… fine line stylus vs conical, and the low internal impedance design of the MSL cartridges.

What sealed the deal for me was dipping my toe in the SUT waters recently. My stereo phono had been high gain for a very long time, then I gave a Fonolab Pacto a go with my MSL Signature Platinum and was blown away. I remembered what I liked with Solo so I asked Jan at Fonolab if he could build a custom mono Pacto (1/2 Pacto) for the Solo. He loved the idea, so here I am.

"Modernize" the 3160?  The original is barely 10-15 years old. Not much has happened in audio electronics in those years.  In fact, the bipolar transistor that Raul et al use in the MC gain stage is out of production and was not replaced by anything as good or better for the purpose, probably because transistor evolution is not motivated by the design and build of phono stages. To tube-ify it would be an absurd notion. Let me know if you find one for sale in the UK for 1200 GBP.

@worksbau 

Thank you again for sharing your impressions of MSL and Fono Lab SUT. I do believe adding customized SUT’s would optimize performance of both carts. Your post has been most helpful and inspiring. I am few months away from everything coming together singing in perfect harmony. 

@lalitk Jan felt that the Miyajima design would not benefit his SUT. The ETR-Mono would probably be your best bet for the Zero.

 

 

@pindac Stated " I would be better off financially by sticking with the Essential 3160 at an approx’ £1.2K option, even though as a design it will be obsolete and superseded by the other designs available today ".

@lewm stated "The original is barely 10-15 years old" - "the bipolar transistor that Raul et al use in the MC gain stage is out of production"

I have made no secrets on the Audiogon Forum that most of my HiFi System is produced as a Commission Build.

Most of the Designs that have been selected are Bespoke. Certain Electronic Components which have been selected to be used in certain Devices, such as the Tranx’s are ’one off’s produced as Hand Wound Designs.

Amp’s have been as the end design, Voiced to my preferences prior to them being brought home. Amp’s when home over a period of usage have been Tube Rolled with the intention to discover a Voicing that is a personal preference.

Every audio item able to produce sound that I have owned and used as a ’go to’ tool over the past 25+ years will have undergone a process of having it Voiced to suit my personal preferences.

In some cases I have been present as the Voicing was being undertaken. In other cases a very good description was supplied of the expectation of the Work to be undertaken, that was realised by myself as being an option that had an attraction.

In relation to Phonostages, I make it no secret on the ’Gon’, I have made it a secondary hobby to experience many in use, especially in short time periods between each demo’ received.

Such experiences have lead me to forming the view, there are a selection of Designs for Phon’s that share a similar Circuit / Topology are not appealing, the sonic trait from the design has for myself been easily detectable and not wanted.

Such experiences have also lead me to forming the view, there are a selection of designs for Phon’s that to my personal preference have proved to be very attractive. These Designs for a Phon’ are wanted to be continuously experienced and maintained in use. Some are commercial products and some are Self Built designs, that are produced by very competent individuals with EE Skills or Qualified EE’s.

Such experiences leaves one with info that is not so commonly assessed. Where the cost for Phon’s is usually made known or a friendly inquiry will reveal the cost for a particular model. Being privy to such info on costs allows for comparison to be used to assess value for money.

When a BOM (Bill of Materials) for the Phon’s produced as Self Built Designs is discovered to be typically between £500 - £2Kish and these designs depending on cost have been found to sit comfortably in comparisons with Commercial Brand Phon’s costing approx’ £2K - £10K+. It does not take long to work out the Components used in a Commercial Design exclusive of the Phon’s casing, are going to fall somewhere near the £300 - £1K mark.

As I know and share with the EE and Designer of a Commercial Branded Phon’ used for a Demo’, who was commissioned by a Company to produce one of the £10K+ Phon’s, I know the Ball Park on the components BOM being under £1K was the suggestion.

Where I am different to many enthusiast’s of Audio Equipment is that much of what I buy / going to buy, is governed by a BOM + EE Cost and not a retail price.

In relation to Commercial Branded Products there is a need for a substantial depreciation from retail to be able to get it bought for what would be described as close to the BOM for the device.

The Individuals I know who bought into Modwright and VAC are both very adept EE’s, who made the choice for the purchase as their confidence, and knowledge to repair was ’in-house’ and the purchase was a worthwhile Punt. From what I know of the purchase prices, I would strongly suggest these were very close to BOM in their bought value.

There is Speculation in my finding a Essential 3160 surface in the UK, but recently a Modwright has once more surfaced, offered for sale from a different person than the owner that I know. The asking price has started high. In the past five years maybe the Modwright Models have become more desirable as a Brand on the UK ?

What I feel more confident about is that when a Essential 3160 is discovered to be purchased for between £1.2K and $2.5K. At this cost, it will be quite close to the BOM for the product when first produced, this is a method of purchasing more to my liking, I'm sure it has a broader appeal as well.

Any thoughts or opinions shared on any Phon’ as a performer will be taken with a pinch of salt, I know what I like and what I don’t like when it comes to a produced end sound. For myself hearing is everything.

If a trusted EE who has a wealth of experience building Phon’s suggested as a part of the Voicing experience to tune the MM/MC Stage, suggested it was best that the bipolar transistor or any other component is removed, it would go. Such a component is not really worthwhile getting too excited over, the trials be undertaken would be setting the precedent.

Similar happened with my most recent commission built Phon’, the EE was struggling with my want to Voice it differently to their selection for the end sound. I was confident a few component changes would help create a change that would have the potential to move more toward my preferences for the end sound. In the end I got my exchanges and I got my end sound wanted. The EE said the design I had put in place will be a Upgrade option on their choice made for the Base Model.

The Commission Built Phon’ for a period of time was just jaw dropping good, and then the ’what if’ occurs, unavoidable it is. The Later Tube Rolling experiences that were undertaken, discovered Valves that proved to be really capable of bringing the Phon’ out of its shell, it was no longer a Candle under a Bushell.

Phon's are such good devices to develop being overly interested in, there is so much learning about produced sound that can be attained, through learning about the influences the devices can have.

1.2K GBP is about $1.5K these days.

@pindac stated " What caught me out is that certain US Brands in Phonostages and Amp's that are imports to the UK are discovered to be heavily discounted when ending up as sale items in the UK used market, using the US used pricing for the 3160, I suspected the same Phon' discovered in the UK as a used sale would not stretch a budget much more than £1200".

Depreciation is Depreciation, not much in a market place avoids its impact. Much of the depreciation witnessed on a product is seemingly governed by how desirable it is to be owned. I would suggest if a Product plummets in Value over time when it is offered as used sale item, as a product it has not got too much interest attached to it in the Market Place. This seems to be not so different to a New Product becoming Heavily Discounted if the Turnover of sales does not take off as the sales were projected for it.      

Myself, I don't judge a device for its capability to make an Impression based solely on Price of the Device. For myself, a decision made, is based on the function of the finished build and how the experiencing of the end sound has the capability for creating an impression as being attractive and wanted to be maintained.

It is this interest in experiencing the end sound that is able to be produced, that has been the stimulus to encourage myself to travel multiple thousands of miles as round trips to share in listening experiences of a broad range of audio devices. 

After having quite a selection of experiences of being sat in front of Demo's of Commission Designed and Built Devices or Self Built Designs vs Commercially Produced Designs in systems up to £200Kish in Value. I have been able to develop my Experiential Learning to the point where I stand confident in what I class as insights into how a broad range of Audio Equipment is able to function. I have certainly became a not so easy candidate to be swayed by opinion of others.

I am happy to report on the 'Gon' on occasions, a Build for a Audio Device that required a BOM of approx' £2K as a finished and functioning design, that has been more than capable as a design, to sit side by side in comparison with a similar functioning Audio Device that costs close to £50K. I can also happily state, this is not a 'one off experience'. I have been introduced to BOM's for a device that have been to myself attractive to consider, that when heard as the functioning end design, has proved to be more than capable as a performer, when compared to much more expensive commercial designs.

The cost of a device means very little to Myself. The design for the electronics and the end sound able to be produced as a result of the design selected is what really matters to myself.

It is very evident that there are a smallish proportion of  individuals, that are not so Taxing when creating their Business Model that is allowing others to buy into their designs for Audio Devices.

It is also very very evident there is a Business Model from a much larger proportion of another type of individual. That are ready and waiting in the Wings to add a Substantial Tax and even a Stealth Tax to enable an individual to buy into the broader available ranges of this groups Designs.

Some Companies are the Pinnacle of this Marketing Philosophy, where the Business Model is seemingly for, Low Volume Sales, which is used to Justify Substantial High Profit Margins on Products that are a so called unobtanium design that can't be offered from other competing suppliers.

It is almost like these Companies are actually suggesting they are so unique, they are owning the electricity being sent through the devices they supply to be used in a Audio System and no other can get to their special source of electricity. To myself, when the notion is being planted, that  something quite ubiquitous 'is unobtanium elsewhere',  'smoke and mirrors' comes to mind 

The following is a few very recent words from the Owner of darTZeel

"But above all, the race to offer the most expensive product, claiming it’s better, while giving ever larger discounts to end users".

"This trend, though not new, is now rotting the extreme High-End market and is destroying the industry".

" I, Hervé Delétraz, founder and creator of the darTZeel brand, have decided that this business model no longer aligns with my vision of Extreme High End".

  

My point was merely to correct you as regards the current exchange rate between pound and dollar.  First, you estimated that a used Essential 3160 can be found for $2500, and then you estimated you could find one in the UK for only 1200 GBP, which is much less than $2500. US$2500 is more like 1950 GBP. I now see that you simply mis-estimated the exchange rate.  There is also a question whether the 3160 can run on 240V.  Possibly it can do so; I think there is a switch on the rear of the PS chassis or inside the PS chassis, for that, but maybe not.

No matter what most of us say, most of us (including you and I) at least occasionally fall into the trap of equating cost with level of performance, which is nearly always misleading if not plain wrong.

All this fuss over a phono which is pretty much unobtainable 🙄

One never knows, does one? I hadn’t mentioned the Essential 3160 previous to your question about what stage has separate MM and MC circuits, because of its rarity. But if you can find one, I can recommend it very highly. Actually, Raul may be able to help you acquire one, from someone who is moving "up" to the 3180. Another company that makes phono stages with multiple separate RIAA circuits is DSA. Their Phono III, which offers not one, not two, but three discrete RIAA circuits that can operate in balanced or unbalanced mode and with very flexible gain set separately for each circuit. Nothing tops that for flexibility. I heard an early version in my home courtesy of Doug Hurlburt, the designer. Very good.