Subwoofer Advice

@rick_n thanks

I think REL overstates what is truly needed in their room guide.  I have a HT room that is similar in size to your room.  I'm running a pair of SB4000s and it's all the bass I need.  The sound is smooth and the room is fully pressurized.  If you want to go the REL direction I think that the SB2000 or SB3000 will get the job done.  The SVS subs are very popular and can usually be found on the second hand market.  Good luck and cheers.

Just another quick couple of things. I have had the speakers in lots of different positions with little effect on the sound, so I have them in ML’s recommended position with the backs 10" from the wall and 24" off the one of the side walls, the other side is wide open to the kitchen.

I’ve also found treating the room with dipole speakers doesn’t have a large effect on the sound quality. I have tried acoustic panels behind the speakers, and it didn’t sound good at all. I have no side wall to the left and on the right side, I can pull the curtains closed.

ML say ceiling treatment aren’t needed but do recommend treating the back wall (behind the listening position) which I have done.

ML also says there is no set measurement for the space between the speakers. I have mine 6’ apart and my listening position is approximately 11’ back from them. Toed in via ML's flashlight recommendation. 

@audio_rd_uk you have 5 subs in your room, with another two on their way?

@navyachts 

You are welcome, the room I have the micro's in is 27 x 15, but no 'space off' and notwithstanding my and others on the SB1000's, etc., They manage, with two other 10" subs in the rear corners to pressurise.  I am not disagreeing with @rick_n that if you can fully pressurise with some larger say 12's (precisely why I have 2x16 1x12 and 2x10 (soon to be 2x13.8) in the main room that you won't appreciate it. But when I have my audio set using the SVS 16's in the main room it is timed impact and timed midrange reinforcement, rather than out and out pressurisation that makes it sound "musical".  The arc should align 2.2 which ever sub you chose well because Trinnov manages to great effect in mine even with not ideal sub-placement. If arc for some reason doesn't then perhaps see if somebody can give you a home demo on either something with dirac, or a trinnov (amethyst or st2-hifi, latter would be ;old stock') just to see what can be achieved in the room.  Correction ARC or other could give you more flexibility with placement on subs.  But the (see REL video you tube) placing using track 4 from sneakers should give a good start if you can place them alongside the speakers. As Rick_n notes 2x12" so SB1000 pros (with the 5% off for "godual").

@rick_n Thanks, now I just need to fine the room (and the funds) to get there.

When I use the match finder on the SVS website, they recommend the PB16-Ultra at $2,900 (x2) and REL comes up with their No 31 model at $7,000 (x2)

My room is 15' wide x 22' long with the kitchen off to the right of the right speaker

That's actually a pretty big space when you include the Kitchen and vaulted ceiling which you have to account for.  You will have to think about pressurizing the entire space to get satisfying bass and I think that's why you feel the mains aren't doing the job.  You will probably be happiest with a pair of traditional subs 12" or bigger.  

@big_greg the wireless option sounds great, do you think is a good way to go, is wireless going to be accurate match with the rest of the system? Hardwired, at least for most audio products, seem to be the preferred set-up.

@soix Thanks for the suggestion, you have always been an advocate for the SB1000s. They seem to be a great deal.

@russ69 are you saying move on from the MLs and hook up with some Infinity RS1B towers or Tektons?

@dmaddox77 Yes, I heard something about ML’s new subwoofer line, but I don’t see them for sale on their website yet, but I will check it out.

@mijostyn My room is 15’ wide x 22’ long with the kitchen off to the right of the right speaker, you can see pictures in my virtual system. Yes, I have the ARC kit. I tried this when I first got the speakers and wasn’t all that impressed with the results. I will definitely give it a shot again. Thank you for reminding me about this Mike, any help would GREATLY be appreciated!

@audio_rd_uk and others who have chimed in, thank you!

I don't think I would go any smaller than 12" drivers for subs, but I have heard REL and KEF subs with smaller drivers that were surprisingly good for their size, but expensive.

I would look at the SVS SB-1000 or get a pair of Rythmik sealed subs for the best sound.  The Rythmiks would be a little over budget, but a worthwhile investment.  If you can find a different place to hide a small sub and get it somewhere else in the room, the SVS subs might be better.  There are wireless options and they come with an app that lets you adjust the sound remotely.

Recommend you look at Hsu Subs, https://hsuresearch.com/collections/collections-true-subwoofers-subset-collection

I use dual Rythmick F12. I offer no recommendations as to your specific subs questions, but I will offer one about placement. Placing both subs either right inside or outside of the speakers is far from ideal. In my house of stereo it resulted in very overly bloated bass along the back wall of the room. I then took the advice of one of the members here who said subs need to be on different walls and at different locations. After experimenting, one ended up on the right side of the front wall, the other a third down along the left sidewall. The result was astounding, it solved all my bloated bass issues.

I have 2 x SVS 3000 micro's used with Trinnov correction alongside my Wilson Benesch front speakers in my Lounge.  The micro's were chosen over the SB1000's only because I could not get a position (as I do in my other room where I have SVS 16's to get front firing alignment (partly done with Sneakers Track 4, partly with Trinnov).  I would agree with @soix  and @rajugsw that the 1000 / 1000 pro would be better for that use and would have gone that way if space allowed (micro's are behind slightly outboard).  But they do (with the correction applied) do a very good job.  But, I haven't tried to time align them through position without the correction and I suspect, having tried that once before with a Kef dual firing unit that it would be more difficult to get a satisfactory result and both this and discussions with Trinnov on emerging technologies such as their wave forming would, wherever possible lead me towards a front firing sealed box wherever possible.

What is the size of the room the MLs are in? Did you get the Anthem room correction for it? Does it have a bass EQ function?  I can help you figure this out, but I need this info first. It is possible you may not need a subwoofer at all. 

Mike

I run 4 SB-1000's (no Bluetooth). Small, tight, sealed box, and they were cheap ! The front one's in are in phase. The rears are 180° out of phase, Tunes the room's Bass nodes perfectly. I still have a 50Hz - 60 Hz hump in the room. But I like it. I don't use any DSP and chose to tune the room instead.

I listen to A LOT of SACD's/DSD files and refuse to convert the DSD to a PCM stream (been there, done it, got the T-Shirt).

Two subs. One for each channel best. The bigger the room the bigger the sub(s). 

Martin Logan Abyss10 that they just came out with.

Also if you can find a force cancelation sub that might work also.  The ML balnceforce 10 is just a hair too big. As is the Rythmik G22.  I own a power sound audio dual 12 that they don't make anymore.

What is the size of the room?

I ran Infinity RS1B towers with my stuff. Nothing worked better. You will see most big loudspeaker systems run towers. I see Tekton sells a few different kinds, I'd be tempted..

I was wondering about a pair of SVS Micros. Do you think they would complement the 13As or do I need something bigger?

IMO the SB1000 Pro is a much better sub than the Micro and not all that much bigger, and on top of that they’re significantly cheaper and you can get two for under $1200.  No brainer in my book if you can fit them.  Hope this helps.