You may want to consider entire house surge protection instead. There are commercial/industrial solutions like from Siemens with $75K insurance for 10 years. These are REAL things that WILL protect (Monster never protected mine, it is all lies). And they do not cost $$$ more like few hundred dollars. Talk to a professional electrician.
https://www.siemens.com/us/en/products/energy/low-voltage/surge-protection-devices/residential-surge.html
I am sorry, but I will never again buy any "audiophile" or "home equipment" surge protection. I rather get equipment that is used to protect really expensive professional stuff out there backed with money guarantees. I guarantee you, big recording studio is not using any Monster or anything "audiophile".
|
A system at the level of yours deserves a bit more than a plain old surge protector. But definitely invest in a whole house unit, they are relatively cheap. For your system, do some research and invest in an audiophile level power system, either passive or active. I have tried the passive route with okay results, but now have dived down the regeneration rabbit hole with PS Audio with very good results.
|
Surge protection is a good thing for all the appliances in your house. If your utility allows it, a Type 1 protector installed in your meter panel is an excellent first line of defense. My electric utility doesn't allow use of Type 1 protectors, so I settled on the next best thing, which is a Type 2 installed in the electric service panel.
I have power conditioning installed ahead of my audio components, but I don't think of those units as surge protectors.
|
@cleeds Power conditioners generally provide a level of protection against surges. Now the power condition could end up being sacrificial, which will bother some because of the price, but it is really hard to protect everything. I will never put a current limiting device on my amp.
Jerry
|
If you are looking for true surge protection, I suspect the SurgeX products would fit the bill. Of course, there are those that would never accept such a "non-audiophile" product.
I suspect on many systems, current limiting would not be an issue and surge protection would far exceed what many "power conditioners" afford.
|
I use a whole house type II (at the main service panel) from Siemens plus on the main system, a surge board in the iso transformer that protects the outputs- 4 gauge to a sub panel that feeds 10 gauge dedicated lines. For most appliances, computers and my vintage system, I use point of use surge protectors. I keep the antique Quad Loudspeakers in the vintage system on constant charge using a Zero Surge.
"Whole house" may not be sufficient (some surges are within the household system and the "whole house" will not address these); in the realm of "point of use," a lot of the conditioner/surge protectors have a sound. That’s where you have to experiment through try before you buy or buy with the right to return with minimal penalty. The Siemens FS 140 is overbuilt, but still uses MOVs and has gone up in price; I used an Eaton before that. There is an "audiophile" whole house by Environmental Potentials that is now about twice the price of the Siemens, have not tried that unit. There are also more industrial/commercial units that can be even more spendy.
My go-to on electrical systems is @Jea48. Others here are also knowledgeable.
|
@whart , @cleeds
+1 on the addition of a SIEMENS surge protection. on the electrical panel.
i did it when I Reno”ed the house two years ago. I moved my “A” system to a new room and ran two new 20A dedicated lines into the new room
unless I go away on vacation, the high-end integrated amp and the high-end streamer-dac both remain powered up full-time according to their manual specs .
The panel solution works like a charm.Highly recommended.
|
|
I forgot to mention that on new construction and work done on existing systems, a whole house surge protector is now required as I understand it.
|
I forgot to mention that on new construction and work done on existing systems, a whole house surge protector is now required as I understand it.
As of 2020 the NEC requires it, local codes will vary. Among the things they protect is the house wiring itself, as well as anything else you can't or wouldn't normally put on a surge strip, like fire alarms, GFCI outlets, smart switches...
|
|
+1, whole house surge protection. Given your current system, don’t compromise performance by installing Furman or similar type of surge protection devices. They will choke the life out of your audio system. And they can’t handle high current amp so what’s the point…..
https://www.vhaudio.com/environmental-potentials-ep-2050.pdf
|
My SC home is 18 years old. It doesn't require whole house surge suppression vut it was the first thing I dId. Prior experience plus moving to a lightning prone area made this essential for me.
|
I think I am really talking about power conditioners with surge protection. I am curious at what level of price (quality) I would notice the difference in my systerm. My local dealer carries Shunyata and says I would hear a big difference, but Shynyata power conditioners with six or more outlets range from $1,200 to $9,000. When I go in for a demo, I have no idea at what cost level I should begin. Is $1,200 just a fancy surge protector? There is one for $2,900 that supposedly maintains a steady flow of clean current to all six outlets. Truthfully, I have always thought power conditioners were a hoax, but I've read too many reviews that tell me otherwise.
|
“I have no idea at what cost level I should begin.”
@audio-b-dog
RE: Shunyata, Ask your dealer to allow home audition. Pick a mid-tier and another one on top of your budget within Shunyata range, listen and buy what sounds right with minimal coloration.
|
Thanks lalitk, I will ask my dealer about an in-home demo.
|
I think I am really talking about power conditioners with surge protection.
My biggest question is first and foremost whether a unit has been tested and certified as a surge protector. Boutique audio "conditioners" rarely are.
|
I’d go with a whole house surge protector in your service panel to protect all your electrical devices. I’d additionally look into the Furman products for your audio system. I’ve had very good results with this two-layer protection scheme.
|
@audio-b-dog ,
I would second (third) the recommendation of a whole house surge protector. A licensed electrician can install one at a relatively low cost. And, given that you have a very nice (and expensive system), it makes sense to protect that as well as all the other electronic devices in your home.
But, if you don't own your home, or don't want to commit to the expense, I would recommend the Audioquest Niagra series of power conditioners. They offer good protection and won't mess up the sound (at least, IMHO).
Bob
|
Thanks, Bob. I will check out the Audioquest, which I know is sold by Music Direct who has sold me a whole bunch of things. I have read many audio reviews where the reviewer is using an Audioquest conditioner. They do get expensive, however. In my mind, $3K is as high as I want to go.
David
|
Thanks, Eric. Good point that i should check out whether the power conditioner is also a surge protector. I want both.
David
|
Given the quality of the rest of your system, I would recommend as high a level as possible. Shunyata good choice. Definitely audition. But a good power conditioner will improve the sound yof all your components other than the amp (directly into outlet). There are isolated reports of a power conditioner not making a difference... very uncommon. Also, consider it a component you may never upgrade as you upgrade the rest of your system. I bought my 75lb power conditioner over twenty five years ago. It remains a core component... and when I have made comparisons... it is still of great comparative value. I’d audition an Everest. You'd never have to think about it again.
|
Defense in depth: Absolutely begin with a whole house surgeprotector. It is the cheapest insurance known for everything electric in your home, especially if you lie in thunderstorm prone areas. If you have sub-panels, but one in their as well. Next is your point-of-use devices. Whether you decide to go with a simple quality suege protector, more elaborate power conditioner, or all the way to a battery power generator is up to you and your circumstances.
I would also check out Ting - www.tingfire.com - an electrical arc fault detector. State Farm just sent me one for free. Apparently they can detect 80% of all electrical fires before ignition. I get a monthly email report showing voltage fluctuations, outages, brown outs, and voltage spikes, which is kinda fascinating in a nerdy quasi-paranoid way. But the reassuring note that no faults were found does deliver some peace of mind. They're $99 with a year of monitoring, and include a pretty cool app, if your insurance company won't freebie one.
|
OP:
Be careful as some are marketed as "offers surge protection" which is different from having a UL or ETL certification as a surge protection device. Actual surge protectors will be certified to UL 1449. It's the difference between throwing an MOV into the box and actually undergoing high voltage testing.
|
I have had great luck with using computer type Battery Backup/Surge protectors. My approach has been to use relatively high power units that will support a load of 1000 VA or more and use those in sufficient numbers to handle the current draw of the equipment. The good news is companies like APC will warranty the equipment connected for replacement cost up to a fairly high value...as yet I have never had to collect on that warranty and hope I never do. It is a source of peace of mind to know that the warranty is in place.
|
My power surges 2x a wk and I have furman 20 i that have never failed me.there are some on ebay open box about 2k.a whole house would be good as well.sorry it took a fire to stimulate.
|
Some used furman 20 i on the music room now 1.5k but I would go open box
|
I have run krell fpb 6k watts into 1 ohm mcintosh 1.25k bryston 28 b3 and many hive 10 k watt class d into the 20 i and have never had an issue.yes I would prefer plugging them directly into the wall but don't want to lose a high dollar amp.the furman may Rob 1%of sound quality but that's the trade off.the 20 I has capacitors with>60 amp transients power so does audioquest 7000 but it's 11 k. Many furman 20 i in recording studios. Enjoy the hunt.read alot of reviews.the shunyata is a good one they cryo thier stuff to align the atoms to make electrons flow better.
|
I would also recommend a whole house protecter. It’s definitely saved AV equipment and more over time.
|
We had over 1000 lightning strikes in Sydney a couple of evenings ago. Many years ago, a surge protector with a large connected-equipment guarantee sacrificed itself. It took a fair bit of argy bargy but they eventually coughed up.
We are still using copper for many internet connections, which can be a way in for strikes. Also roof antennae for broadcast TV reception!
|
I have talked to my local dealer about trying out a Shunyata - Venom V16 Power Conditioner. If I don't think it makes my systerm sound $3K (including power cord) better, I can return it. But it's on order and I'll have to wait a while. |
@audio-b-dog
That’s a good starting point and should give you a good perspective on how a power conditioner works in your system. If you like what you hear then V16 + whole surge protection device in your main breaker box should set you up nicely.
Keep us posted!
|
lalitk, I hear you on the box surge protector. I'm not sure that will come soon, though. I have to work my budget out with my wife, and I've spent $18K on new speakers, $4K on a Moon streamer, and $3K on a surge protector/power conditioner, if I like the Shunyata. I have never spent that kind of money all in one fell swoop before. I don't know how the rest of you married follk deal with spouses, but if I were left to my own devices, without a budget, I would spend so much money that in the end even I would think it was foolish. But I will look into the power boxes surge protectors. I have three boxes now, but one I think is the main one. I'd have to ask an electrician. But again, there is a lot of diplomacy to being a married audiophile.
|
@audio-b-dog
I hear you, for many of us; it’s a balancing act—pursuing your passion for high-fidelity sound while keeping harmony at home. Ultimately, it’s about finding that sweet spot where your passion and your partnership coexist harmoniously.
As for the surge protector and power conditioning, they are two sides of a coin. Whenever you are ready, consult an electrician and plan for installation.
|
Good choice on shunyata even better dealer let's you try it.i don't know how long manufacture states the breakin period is may check on that. I do think things perform better after 50 or so hours when new.enjoy the music
|
OP - Since you have the Shunyata on trial why not pick up a Furman 20i that can be returned and compare them? Might save yourself some significant change. +1 on the whole-house urge protection. It's a no-brainer at a few hundred dollars installed.
Sounds like you have an understanding spouse. Lucky man.
|
Surge protection. I'd stay away from urge protection!
|
Transparent Power isolator is a great surge protector. Surge power Design is of a hydraulic nature. It’s on the expensive side but it’s a conditioner that does not restrict Power.
A lot of high-end audio systems use this.
Always interested in comments about this conditioner.
|
I haven't received the Shunyata Venom 16 yet. It's on backorder. I think a lot of people in LA, with the Santa Ana Winds, are looking for protection for their audio equipment. It's also used in hospitals, according to the literature.
|
Just my 2c from an old electronics guy. Eaton Ultra surge protectors in the main and sub panels, multiple dedicated 20 amp circuits, multiple Zero Surge units, Eaton 9PX UPS unit for Trinnov, Kscape and a few other high $$ items.
Fancy cases and "audio" specialty products are snake oil.
|
I have a $3K budget, and that was already stretching it. I have a wife, remember.
|
It's not a money thing. Get a whole house surge protector and be done with it. <$500 installed. Just keep in mind NOTHING will stop a lightning strike except physically unplugging your equipment.
|
This Belkin surge protector is the one to get. About $43 from Amazon.
4320 Joules of protection. A sensible and easy choice to make.
|
Some years ago, a lightning strike got in via my dog's "invisible fence". No protection anywhere. Blew fence's transformer off wall and just past my head. Distroyed my PC's motherboard and something in my Bryston amp.
Sent still under 20 yr warranty amp to Bryston but forgot to tell them what happened. The tech called, and asked. I mentioned the ligthning strike and he said "we don't usually warrant lightning strikes" . . . pause . . . "but this time we'll fix it".
Been a Bryston fan boy ever since...and have whole house and point of use protection stuff everywhere.
|
I have been using a Panamax MR5100 Protector and 10 yrs of service have seen it few times shut off and reboot with our electric shut down and reboot.. Never had a lighting strike but close few times....But something is better than nothing I am sure...I have it on dark and when something happens it lights up and shows the voltage....I think at times of replacing but never had a hard hit on it..
|
I thought I'd try a power conditioner with surge protection this time. I keep reading and hearing from audiophiles how much good power condtioners make a difference in the sound. Mine arrives mid next week. I'll report back. My dealer (grain of salt) tells me there will be no question how much better the Sonus Faber Olympica Nova 5s he sold me will sound. It will not be a sublte thing, he says. We shall see.
|
Power conditioners and surge protection seem to get mixed up.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but:
My understanding of effective surge protection for audio devices- not kitchen appliances- is that a surge protector has to have a CLAMPING VOLTAGE (threshold where current is interrupted) less than 200 volts.
According to the dealer who sold me an Environmental Potentials whole home surge protector, the lowest CLAMPING VOLTAGE achieved by whole home surge protectors is around 400 volts. This may protect a fridge compressor motor but not audio electronics (or even any smart components on a fridge or stove)
….and how many power conditioners have surge protection from a voltage spike over 200 volts?
How many power conditioners or surge protectors can protect audio components from a SAG in voltage/ brownout?
|
I lived in the lightning capitol (Orlando) of the US (over 20 years). I installed a whole house surge protector and as a cherry on top added a Brickwall surge protector (Zero Surge will also do).
If your building takes a direct strike NOTHING will protect your equipment, of course.
Good luck & Happy Listening,
DeeCee
|
CORRECTION: “…and how many power conditioners have surge protection from a voltage spike over of 200 volts?”
|
Deecee: thanks for the suggestions! I’m planning to do the same.
|
