I have dedicated audio room 14.5x20.5x9 ft. Currently have Marantz Reference CD/Intergrated paired to Magnepan 1.7's with REL T-7 subs. For the vast majority of music I love this system. The only nit pick is that it is lacking/limited in covering say below 35 hz or so. For the first time actually buzzed the panel with an organ sacd. Bummer. Thought of upgrading subs to rythmicks but then I will need to high pass the 1.7's. Really don't want to deal with that approach.
Enter the Double Impacts. Many interesting things here. Would certainly have a different set of strengths here. Dynamics, claimed bottom octave coverage in one package, suspect a good match to current electronics.
I've read all the threads here so we do not need to rehash that. Just wondering if others out there have FIRST HAND experience with these or other Tekton speakers
Thanks guys! I used a new mic on my camcorder, an Audio-Technica unit. The previous vids used the camcorder's internal mic which was quite bad. The new mic is a good bit more sensitive,too. I had uploaded some Rodrigo y Gabriela vids that sounded amazing on the Ulf's, but the Copyright Police took them down. Craigl59, I tried the Wadia a340 class D amps several weeks back. They appear in my very first video. But, I got rid of them after only a few hours and went back to the BHK 300's. The bass was great on the Wadia's and they were very clear sounding, but in the upper midrange they were very unpleasant sounding. They made some vocals sound shrill and metallic. Not my cup of tea. The BHK's and the Allnic have a sweetness to them that is really special.
Since I have ventured out of the Schiit universe with my Pioneer M-22 purchase and been very happy with it and how well it works with the DIs, I am wondering if there are some better options for a tube preamp than Freya. Requirements would be control via a remote and balanced inputs would be nice (but not required) since I think Yggdrasil is better via XLR out than SE out. Budget? Let’s go with $3K or less. A preamp that uses 6SN7 tubes would be great.
In this price range a number of knowledgeable listeners are very impressed with the Don Sachs preamplifier. An excellent used option is the Atma-Sphere MP-3, very high caliber product.
Another highly regarded 6SN7 preamplifier is the Dehavilland Ultra Verve 3. Should definitely fit into the desired budget rang if used. . Their Mercury preamplifier is also held in high regard. Charles
I will 2nd the obvious choice which is the outstanding MZ2S.
I have only used the single ended rca's on my Yggy so I can't comment about that.
I have had several different setups that were fully balanced the last being a pass labs Xp-10 and Xa-30.8 and now that my entire system is single ended I honestly don't miss balanced connections at all and view them as not needed in my system.
The MZ2s easily beats the 2 preamps that I had before in the sonic presentation that I desire.
You would also just for fun be able to experience the 1.4 watts from the MZ2S with your DI speakers like most of us have.
@porscheracer , @klh007 , Marks new ZOTL intergrated 10 watt amp has true balanced inputs and not transformer balanced. A David Berning designed balanced tube circuit. I'm not sure if it's in production yet but if not, should be soon.
@waltersalas My listening session with Matt at Pitch Perfect went well. His room acoustics The LM 508ia and Devore O/96 speakers left me impressed. Piano was reproduced with realism in tone so that I could hear the ivories. Stand up bass and sax timbres were accurate and well controlled.The few tracks of the hardest rock/thrash did lack ultimate punch, but I am coming from high powered ss Gallo Ref 3.1's which are incredible for that.
One thing for sure, this LM508ia is an excellent all around SET amp that doesn't break a sweat with hard rock, 80's, pop or funk/R&B.
I'm excited to hear some Legacy speakers with Raven Audio gear. Dave Thomson has been really helpful and seems to know what I'm after. A touch of sweetness in the mids and highs without too much sacrifice in bass speed and precision. To my ears, ribbon/cone speakers have always sounded great across a wide range of music.
Maybe a pass labs xa-30.8 deserves a try before pulling the trigger. I don't have the time or energy to over shop this, but 2 or 3 demos should suffice.
Kind of hard separating the amp from the speaker when listening to a combined sound.
Speakers will either be the DI's, Salk HT3 or something Legacy.
Kenny, The LTA M2Z-S is such an obvious choice I didn't bother to mentioned it in my posts earlier. I just assumed awareness of it given the multiple times its been discussed in this very active thread. So I thought I would offer a few alternatives. Charles
Brotw, The Pass Labs XA 30.8 and the LM 508ia would be a compelling comparison. Both are considered to be excellent yet presumably with distinctly different presentations. Charles
Over the the years I have had the opportunity to own and listen two many top flight preamps. Far too many for me to list, but units like the Tom Evans Vibe & Pulse, CJ LS16 MKII, Audio Note M6, Supratek Cortese, TRL Dude, and many others. I sold gear for several wealthy audio friends giving me access to great pieces regularly. Fun!
I say this because one preamp in particular always stood out as exceptional. It is the Audio Valve Eklipse. We had a shootout with this preamp and an Audio Research LS27 and all of us easily preferred the Audio Valve. It is an amazing sounding tube preamp that flies under the radar. You can buy one new for around $4500 and used for $2500-$3000 when they show up. Not sure if this one is still available; http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649370934-audio-valve-eklipse/
The seller recaps the sound of this unit nicely in his listing. No need for me to add more as he did a great job. If I needed a preamp today, then I would most definitely seek out a used Eklipse. Hard to find used but they do come up once in a while.
James, Yep, that’s the hallmark of a good quality speaker. The sound quality of the Double Impact is dependent on what's placed up steam in the signal pathway. This is why I find the negative and dismissive comments regarding this speaker unwarranted ànd misinformed. Charles
The Pass Labs XA 30.8 and the LM 508ia would be a compelling comparison. Both are considered to be excellent yet presumably with distinctly different presentations.
@charles1dad "Distinctively different presentations" How so?
I have been following this thread for quite awhile now and see that the Mtz2s gets high praise here used as a preamp.
When I read Teajay's highly regarded review I purchased one. I compared it to my highly modded Supratek Sauvignon.
I let it break in for a couple hundred hours before I did any critical listening and used NOS tubes that Teajay recommended.
I'm probably going to piss off a few people but in IMS it wasn't the giant killer that a lot of people are saying it is.
It is a nice preamp for the money. With all the hype that it's getting I was expecting it to blow away my preamp, which wasn't the case not even close.
It is very fast and has nice transparency, but doesn't come close in tone, texture, and realism that my preamp has. It lacks the emotional involvement that I crave when listening to music.
Sorry, if I went against the grain here, but want people to know you should really compare it to other highly regarded preamps before making a purchase.
No worries at all and other opinions are always valued.
I haven't had the opportunity to hear any of the Supratek's,they are generally hard to come by.
Your comparison of the 2 completely different preamp topology's are spot on and it comes down to system synergy and user sonic presentation preferences.IMO.
I directly replaced a Valvet soul shine and a modwright ls-100 with the MZ2S in my system.
My preferences are to have the speed and transparency from the MZ2S as you mentioned and I prefer to get texture,tone,liquidity and realism from the pwr amp that I'm using.
Your post is greatly valuable and these comparisons will give porscheracer more info in his search.
You have nothing to be sorry for snopro. Your experience and impression of the MZ2 while different than many of us here, is just as valid. What amp and speakers were you using with the MZ2? Like you I find the MZ2 to be very transperant and fast and with the Marconi BL63's or TungSol 12SN7's to have good tone and texture when used as an amp but when I heard it with the Frankenstein 300B SET Monoblocks I heard some truly amazing tone texture. My experience is that the MZ2 will impart its speed and detail to the sound but otherwise is totally transperant allowing the tubes and amp to dictate the sound. I personally like that in a pre amp but can see where it wouldn't appeal to those looking to alter the sound presentation with their pre amp.
Great looking system and room snopro! Bet it sounds even better than it looks.
I loved the sound of Charles' Frankensteins in my system and I look forward to hearing his Coincident system. The Frankensteins are the amps I'm looking to add to my system but I'm fortunate enough to be able to borrow teajay's Consonance 2A3 amp to try out......the bar has been set quite high with the Frank's though as they're the best sounding amps I've ever heard.
Last night I wrote my review on the Ulf's for hometheatereview.com and now my proof reader will clean it up before its submitted to my editor. It was a pleasure to write it and its a joy to have Eric's brilliant creation producing music in my home.
I still firmly stuck to my position that you need the right acoustic space (large with enough space from the front and side walls with a very high ceiling) for these magnificent music makers to breathe and live up to their ultimate level of performance.
No doubt, my favorite combo on the DI's and now the Ulf's is the Micro-ZOTL and the Triode Lab 2A3 by far and I got in-house superlative gear to compare this pairing to which is mentioned in my review.
Hope, this review will go up on the website in the next 4 to 6 weeks.
Hi Joe (Snopro), As others have said your comments and opinions are most welcome and appreciated on this thread. You and I have shared dialogue on this forum for a number of years and I’ve the "upmost" regard for your always insightful contributions. As others have noted, you have assembled an excellent audio system.
There is simply no audio component that will please everyone all the time, impossible task. Some people scoff at the idea of synergy, I certainly do not. Multip6 variables determine the final sound quality of a system, what is a good fit here is a bad fit there. That’s why much of High End Audio revolves around trial and error. You just don’t really know until you’ve heard it and preferably in your own system.
You did exactly this and honestly stated your individual listening experiences, what more can one do? The LTA MZ2-S was/is fabulous for Teajay in his system. Your findings have equal validity, I respect both you and your listening experiences.
I heard this line stage with my Frankenstein in Tom’s system and the match was quite good sounding in my opinion. Tom will bring the MZ2-S to my home in a few days and we’ll compare it to the Coincident Statement Line Stage. Charles
Hi David, What I meant in regard to comparing the Line Magnetic SET and the Pass Labs is the contrast between very different topologies and design. 1 DHT tube versus bipolar transistors. 2 No NFB vs some NFB 3 moderately high output impedance vs low output impedance 4 Low vs higher damping factor 5 Very different input circuits
With these significant contrasts most would expect resulting different sonic character. Of course listening is the only way to confirm these assumptions thus my curiosity. Charles
@ Charles1dad, I am interested in the results of the MZ2-S and
the Coincident Statement Line Stage
comparison in your system. Could you please share your findings here as I am considering one of them down the line?
Joe (Snopto), I'm certain that participants on this thread will appreciate your always thorough commentary as you describe your 2 power amplifier's sonic characteristics driving the Horning Eufrodite speakers. Regarding the Line Stages I am looking forward to hearing the MZ2-S in my system. Charles
@333jeffery Thanks for posting the video. The clarity is so much better with this one and the sound as well. Those Carver (?) amps look sweet...are you still using them or have the BHKs taken over?
Look forward to hearing how the Allnic and BHK preamps compare!
@snopro Thank you so much for your honest feedback on the MZ2S' performance for you. It's very helpful and I for one am glad you posted in the face of very strong support for this preamp in this thread.
Thanks everyone for your kind words and being civil about different opinions! Charles, you are to kind and seem like a true gentleman. Your insights are highly regarded on this forum, my friend.
Here's my take between the amps, IMS.
The Franks are all about tone, texture, and timbre. They are wonderfully open and very natural sounding (organic) with nice extension and dynamics. No soft, syrupy, highly colored sound here. Very powerful sounding for only 8 watts. Excellent with Jazz, (about 80% of my listening) vocals, and acoustic music. Very good with just about everything else. They are wonderful amps especially with good 300b tubes. My favorite are Takatsuki TA-300b's very refined and well balanced. Just a wonderful amp!
The Pass XA-30.8 is a brute in silk gloves. They are 30 watts of pure class A, but really are rated very conservatively. It weights about 85lbs. The Pass goes lower and is more dynamic. The soundstage actually is a little bigger with very nice layering and separation. Its not as open and emotionally engaging as the Franks, but comes pretty close. That is high praise for it being a SS amp. Highly recommended for anyone who doesn't want the hassle with tubes. My speakers have 16 woofers altogether and the Pass really take control of those woofers, which the Frank's can't quite do. They are very smooth and grainless. If you enjoy rock, pop, and amplified music they do that very well. it also sounds wonderful with Jazz, vocals, and acoustic music just not as good the Franks.
It's nice to be able to enjoy both and I very much do, my 2 cents.
David, I described both the Line Magnetic and the Pass Labs as being regarded as excellent amplifiers. Some speakers by design are meant to be used with amplifiers with low output impedance and consequently higher damping factor for sufficient woofer control. This scenario would favor the Pass Labs transistors.
The admirable beauty of the Double Impacts is a variety of different àmplifier types can be used with success. I’d expect the Pass Labs to excel in the region of "tighter" bass control as this is a strength of good solid state amplifiers. I’d expect the Line Magnetic SET to have a edge in tone, timbre and 3 dimensional presentation.
As Snopro pointed out in his 2 amplifier comparison (SET versus solid state) there is overlapping sonic qualities between the two as well as inevitable distinct advantages or strengths of each individually. I can understand why Snopro has kept both superb amplifiers. It gets tricky if you can only have one, then personal taste rules the day. Charles
Long thread, let me see if I have this all strait. 1. Tekton - Double Impact $3000 2. Tekton - Double Impact + upgrade package $3300 3. Tekton - Double Impact SE $6000 not yet available Please correct list if not accurate. Any idea of SE release date? Thanks
Snopro, I was wondering if you rolled tubes in the MZ2s? Using vintage NOS tubes make a huge difference in this piece. A number of us are using the Tungsol black glass round plates and Teajay and me are using Brimar 6060's which are just gorgeous in the midrange. I had a Supratek Chenin a number of years ago and enjoyed it for a few years. In my rig at the time it had great tone but I found the imaging a bit lacking. I was tempted to try Mick's more expensive offerings but never did. I agree with the rest of the group that there are no wrong answers in what sounds best to your ears. As an aside, I heard the Horning speakers at High Water Sound's room at Axpona 2 years ago and they were lovely. It was one of the few rooms at the show that actually did music instead of hi-fi. I am quite sure that they must be amazing in your system. Happy Labor Day to everyone.
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