I have dedicated audio room 14.5x20.5x9 ft. Currently have Marantz Reference CD/Intergrated paired to Magnepan 1.7's with REL T-7 subs. For the vast majority of music I love this system. The only nit pick is that it is lacking/limited in covering say below 35 hz or so. For the first time actually buzzed the panel with an organ sacd. Bummer. Thought of upgrading subs to rythmicks but then I will need to high pass the 1.7's. Really don't want to deal with that approach.
Enter the Double Impacts. Many interesting things here. Would certainly have a different set of strengths here. Dynamics, claimed bottom octave coverage in one package, suspect a good match to current electronics.
I've read all the threads here so we do not need to rehash that. Just wondering if others out there have FIRST HAND experience with these or other Tekton speakers
Thanks so much for sharing your impressions schw06. Very insightful and educational. This thread keeps getting better all the time.
The DI's offer so many amp options that it's refreshing and confounding at the same time. There are countless options it seems! The Lyngdorf is very intriguing, which isnt surprising as it's pretty much a universal truth around here that grannyring, along with many others, really knows good audio. I'm enjoying tubes too much for now to switch away from them, but should that ever change I'll be looking at Lyngdorf.
Hi David (schw05), Very nice and informative post! I have no doubt that you have a wonderful sounding audio system. I suspect it will keep you very happy and content for years. It seems that the Lyngdorf is quite an achievement and surpasses most class D amplifiers I've heard thus far. Congratulations. Charles
I should be receiving my Lyngdorf 2170 today. I don’t have my Tekton Electrons yet, but I am excited to hear how this amp performs with my current set up. I also did buy this amp because of Grannyring’s endorsement. I don’t want to thank Grannyring just yet, since I have not heard it :)
Tonight my family unfortunately will be finalizing our preparations for this monster of a storm headed right for us in Florida. I imagine my electricity will be out for a few to several days. I will update as soon as I can. Take care everyone!
Great news! I envy you. That 2170 is something that really interests me. I am more HT though so I guess it would be the MP50, but then I would need 6 of their amps. Just too much for me, but I love the technology in the 2170. Let us know what you think when you get it.
@david_ten Just to clarify I don't find the MZ2-S lacking in tone but in comparison to the 2170 I find the 2170 to have deeper tonal saturation (more vivid). The difference isn't night and day but certainly noticeable. That difference might be negated by a tube change or power cable swap etc... and I don't want to take anything away from the LTA. You get a lot for your money with it. For those lucky individuals with Tung Sol round plates and unobtanium tubes, I'm sure they were able to extract more from the unit than I got. That being said, I'm in a place in life where my time is short and being able to turn on the music and be instantly in a warmed up system (I leave the 2170 on all the time) allows me to enjoy more brief, spontaneous listening sessions. I just wanted to give folks that are looking at pairing the DI's up with solid state a good option from someone who typically does not prefer solid state and most certainly does not typically prefer class D.
David, great point that the 2170 is a nice SS option for some. It has been said many times that the DI speaker affords its owners many system options. That is certainly an audiophile’s dream!
Aniwolfe: Prayers are with you. We just went through it down here in Houston but thankfully where I was did not get hit very hard. Just constant rain. Hopefully the same will happen to you, but with the storm being even stronger than ours and more than 400 miles wide and a state less than 200 miles wide, I am concerned. Just try to stay safe. Are you evacuating?
@Aniwolfe - Be safe, be cool and be dry. My heart goes out to you having just experienced Harvey. Mother nature can be one scary mother.
As to the Lyngdorf...I plan on getting another unit in to compare to my Linn KDS/3. I've had one before, and it was excellent, only I wanted to get away from USB. However, I'm now in a position to have shootout between the two. The Linn is 3xs as much. Imagine how much I'll save if I could sell off my Linn.
P. S. - I had previously slagged off mic-based room correction, but I've since had a chance of heart after hearing a system in a pro setup. With acoustic room treatment as part of the equation, the Lyngdorf becomes the icing on the cake.
Evolvist, David and I were both stunned at the improvement realized after running the Room Perfect set-up. I had the same reaction in two different rooms and with the Harbeth 40.1 and AZ Crescendo speakers. One of my rooms was already well "treated" with all manner of room treatments, but the room correction just took it to the next level of enjoyment.
I truly appreciate your feedback on the LTA MZ2-S and the CSL
comparison. I have the CSL and the
Melody P2688 (also based on the 101D tube) on my want list. I was hoping the MZ2-S would equal or better
the CSL so that I can save some money. I
guess if one has a small budget, the MZ2-S is no brainer, however, if one wants
something higher, the CSL should be considered.
The Lyngdorf TDAI-2170 has also piqued my interest and I have to find a
way to audition one.
i believe the CSL/Frankenstein combination is quite special, enjoying a synergy that makes them tough to beat. What baffles me is how good the MZ2 and Frank's sounded in my system. It didn't sound lifeless at all at my place yet it was clearly less dynamic and alive in Charles' system. The more I think about it the more baffling it becomes. Could the speakers be the difference? Now I'm wondering what the CSL/Frankenstein combo would sound like with my DI's. Even better than the MZ2 and Frank's sounded? I'd have to imagine so. Yikes, I didn't think it could sound better.
For now I'll have fun trying the Consinance 2A3 in my system. Thanks to teajay for letting me try it out. The Consonance or Aric amps could be a great option to tide me over until I get a big boy amp.......unless I get really lucky and either of those amps turns out to be my forever amp. Wouldn't that be nice?
schw06 Prayers with you, I'm normally in Boca Raton, but my wife and I currently are at our other house in GA, yeah, right on the coast. Likely headed to interior Ga...
I really enjoyed reading your post. Grannyring knows his stuff; if I can pull myself away from tubes I owe it to myself to try the Lyngdorf 2170. Best, mikirob
Hi Mikirob, Do me a favor, if you do decide to audition or buy a Lyngdorf 2170 please let me know your listening impressions. You and I seem to approach and listen to music in a very similar manner. I'm opened minded to the new and different and have given many types of audio products a listen.
Often I find that the hype and promises don't quite hit the market and that hyperbole is alive and well. To be perfectly fair the Lyngdorf could be a bird of a different feather and that would be quite a special development.
I do not doubt what others hear testify to but I don't know how they listen or what they seek or prefer musically. I "think" that I have some reasonable idea of what draws you into music on an emotional level and this aspect is key for me.
I've listened to audio components highly praised by others that were not nearly as impressive to me. I'm not suggesting by any means my ears or listening skills are superior to anyone else, rather it is a very personal experience and I well know what I like.
If the Lyngdorf the can really expose and get to the musical soul and emotional connecting beauty similar to what I currently experience this would be something major for a one box product. You never know. Charles
Musikmann, I have read very favorable comments concerning the Melody P2688 Line Stage. I believe that it is most likely an exceptionally fine sounding component and it or the Coincident Statement Line Stage would be an asset to your system. It would of course be ideal if you could compare these two directly. As Tom and I can attest to, this answers many questions. Charles
mac48025,
I have no doubt the CSL/Frankenstein combo is quite special. Hopefully, you are able to find a preamp/amp combo you can live with on perpetual basis.
Charles1dad, I don't know how I could get the CSL/P2688 to audition side by side. I want to see what the others say about the Lyngdorf and go from there as it might save me some money.
I've doubled down on the Double Impacts, literally.
Placed my order for the Double Impact SE this morning.
Eric is suggesting a more interesting (than black) color for the finish. I currently have Soft Grey DIs which are working very well in the room so I was thinking of something in the light grey palette BUT am very open to suggestions. I remember that pair of orange DIs looking very sweet.
Hello David, Congratulations on ordering the DI SE version, I'm curious about this model. Exactly what are the upgrades that distinguish it from the non SE? Does the SE use Scanspeak or some different brand of drivers? Charles
There is no hype on the Lyngdorf. None. Near nobody talks about it. I mention it here and there, as a voice in the wilderness, in a fair and complete manner. What I hype I can assure all is good, no great. Been there, done that with more gear and combos than most over the years and have context for my statements. Even I don’t hype it, but I do point it out as a real alternative based on its real bleeding edge technology.
Even if a piece of gear is objectively great it does not follow that everyone will love it. That is one reason we see so much used gear for sale including Lyngdorf, Coincident, Berning, Atmasphere, and all others.
Congrats David. I'm VERY interested in the Double Impact SE's. Looking forward to hearing your impressions of them and what brand of drivers is in them.
I believe the PMD line includes high gloss paint? If so, the options are limitless. I have the Mercedes Diamond Black which has a bit of metal flake that is nice but needs bright lighting to see it. Whenever I get the SE's I'll try getting them in BMW Phoenix Green, a bright metallic M3 color. Not for the faint of heart! The gloss Porsche Gray is very classy looking.....or the BMW Mineral Gray. Whatever color you decide upon I bet they'll sound great.
@charles1dad Charles, I do not have the specifics. All internals are upgraded (wire, caps, etc.) and he is using different drivers. The cabinet is deeper. I didn't ask since my knowing (at least at this point) wasn't critical to the decision.
I believe Terry @teajay may know. I'm not sure about this but I believe they are not Scanspeak but another European brand.
Mike from Audio Archon should be receiving a pair of SE's very soon, if he already hasn't, for a customer. So hopefully he can answer some of the questions regarding the specific components used. I didn't realize the cabinet is deeper......cool. Looks like Eric didn't limit himself at all in designing the SE as it would have been real easy to keep it the same size as the standard DI.
David - That is interesting. As Eric (and others) say, there is no replacement for displacement -- which is why I can't wait to see how he solves that on the mini-ulfs. I am curious though... With the price of the SE only a short stones throw from the mini-ulf, I am curious as to why you chose the DI SE over the mini-ulf. As you know, I went with the mini, so I'm curious as to what criteria you used. Not sure if you are up for the extra wait, but since he did a Ferrari color for me, there is a gloss griggio (grey) color that I saw that I really liked. Not sure if you will or not, but I thought it was really nice. Congrats!!!
Hi charles1dad I will report my findings should I pull the trigger on the Lyngdorf. Yes, I believe our ears and listening habits are extremely similar. Tone, timbres, texture, natural organic sound come first, other musical attributes next. Growing up with all the musicians in family, knowing what music sounds like live make it hard for me, or my wife to listen to a playback system that does not get us some semblance of the real thing. I do admire audio designers that give you much bang for the buck such Eric Akexander. On the other hand in 50 years I've heard more than my share of expensive audio; but nothing ever topped in my experience as very young dude one relative playing his L5 Gibson guitar with one of the greatest acts in Rock n' Roll live as well as in the studio. Best, mikirob
Also, I'm really in a fitful cogitation state, do I buy a DI, Baby Ulf? Sell my lesser stuff to relieve financial sting since I really have too much audio equipment as is.
Hello David, I appreciate your reply regarding the somewhat mysterious Double Impact SE. Tom will go to Chicago to hear these speakers when Audio Archon receives their pair. He'll be able to provide the essential details and listening impression at that point. I didn't realize that the SE has a different cabinet. This could turn out to be a considerabley different speaker from the standard DI. This is an intriguing speaker. Charles
Hi Rob, I can understand your dilemma regarding the Tekton line, numerous choices with degrees of overlap with in a given price range. How does one make clear delineation amongst them? Rob I can state unequivocally that the DI with the 300.00 dollar upgrade option is a very good sounding speaker. The question is how much better are the upscale Tekton models 😊 Charles
I'm getting my mini-Ulfs in white and installing colored lights in the ceilings when I get the speakers set in place. The lights will shine on the speakers.
That way, in the dark, I can have any color speakers I want!
Bill, You are spot on about no buzz about the Lyngdorf TDAI-2170? The reviews are exceptional, RoomPerfect is top shelf, and the Direct Digital amp topology works great, takes HDMI in, integrated amps are "in" currently, why no love for the 2170? I hope the dealer in CO brings one to RMAF. It's exciting to hear about SE versions, and I'm really looking forward to teajay's Ulf review.
I ran the TDAI-2170 as a secondary amp from 2015-2016. It’s greatest strength was bringing quality bass out of every speaker big or small. It was successful being paired with everything from PSB T3’s to B&W 803 D3’s. The results with standmount speakers was very impressive. It should be pretty interesting with Double Impacts. I replaced it with a Devialet D-Premier but the room perfect was (and still is) missed.
David, Computer room correction with Live Dirac has been a revelation in my system. I am excited to try room correction with tube amplification. W4S ST-500 mkii class D didn't work our for me, but I would have much prefered room corrected class D to the uncorrected Parasound. I don't doubt the Lyngdorf sounds good to you. Room correction is a powerful tool.
Charles, thanks for all your commentary. I finally pulled the trigger on a used Raven Blackhawk. The LM508ia demo helped me understand your sonic descriptions of "fleshed out" and "meat on the bones". Had there not been a used deal available I may have stepped up to the 48 watt SET or the Pass XA 30.8. The money saved will allow for GIK treatments and some better cable.
Has anyone here with tube amps tried room correction? Does it hurt more than help a well treated room? Maybe tone, timbre and presence is sacrificed for imaging, focus and clarity. I've read that room treatments before attempting calibration provide much better results than correcting a bad room to start with.
An additional point on the 2170 to get the most out of it. It should be used as the one box solution it is. To simply use it as an amplifier, or as preamp with room correction only, or using an external DAC with it misses the greatness of the whole in my opinion.
The ability to lose all of the additional cabling and take advantage of the very short signal paths and inherent synergy of this one box solution is one of the reasons why it sounds so darn good.
I tried hooking up all manner of external amplifiers to the 2170 including tube amps and even their own model 2400 amplifier. In the end the 2170 sounded best on its own.
It is almost pointless to use it any other way. As a standalone DAC or using external amps the performance is mediocre and defeats the purpose of the design basically. I never had any luck experimenting.
I didn't realize the Lyngdorf had a DAC also. Very interesting. So someone like me who only listens to Redbook CD's would only need to add a transport? How slick is that?
Grannyring, you would consider the Lyngdorfs tone, timbre and texture to match that of a good SET? Does it also have the dynamic slam SS amps are known for? Could it possess the best of both worlds? That's quite amazing and really has me thinking......but what that tube glow I like so much? Guess I could just plug a tube amp in for the lighting effect :)
mac, The Lyngdorf doesn't actually have a "DAC". It takes digital in, translates PCM to PWM, and uses that to drive the mosfet outputs. Bill and James are spot on about the 2170, use as a one box "does it all" or why bother.
The Ulfberht's are a significant step above the DI's in their performance, yes I know they cost 9K more, so my is hunch with better drivers and internal parts the DI SE will be a more refined/higher level performer then the DI's. Eric, would not come out with a more costly version if he did not believe he could improve on the performance of the original model.
I will have the pleasure of hearing them in person when Mike Kay gets them in and delivered to his customer, Ezra, who is a dear friend and lives a few miles away. By the way, the array of small drivers will not be from ScanSpeak, but another very highly regarded European OEM company.
I'll be in the lucky position to hear all three models and then can give you feedback regarding the differences between the models. I have already submitted my review on the Ulfberht's to hometheaterreview.com and I'll let you guys know when it will go up on the website.
If you are running your DI's or Ulf's with tubes I highly recommend you take a look at the AricAudio SET KT-88 amplifier which is driving the Ulf's in my system superlatively across the sonic board. Remember this SET is 22 watts per channel so you "power hounds" would be very pleased with ultimate dB levels and grunt/control of dynamics on your DI's.
As mentioned, we have the first pair of Double Impact SE speakers being produced now (in painting at the moment) for a local customer (Chicago area).
The DI SE is a completely different speaker than the standard DI. Thinking back we probably should have named it something else to eliminate any confusion.
Sure we have some insight as to the differences, but in a week or two the DI-SE should be finished and we can give you facts. We tried to get things moving about 6 months ago (when I believed the DI SE was going to be ready)...which led to many phone calls, questions and no product! I am not doing that again until we have all the pieces of the puzzle.
Thanks and stay tuned! Mike Kay Audio Archon (Tekton dealer)
Definitely staying tuned as this is the model that interests me the most. Based on my experience, even in a well thought out design, the quality of drivers and crossover parts really matter.....big-time! Any additional cabinet/dampening upgrades is also a plus. Thanks Mike.
Based on my experience reviewing the Ulfbreht's the DI SE's will be a significant refinement over the DI's because of much higher grade drivers and internal parts. I do not believe Eric would come out with another model unless he was convinced he could take the performance to another level when there is less of a budgetary constriction. I do know that the array of drivers in the DI SE's are not ScanSpeak, but another highly regarded OEM European speaker company.
I will be in the very lucky position to hear the DI SE's as soon as my friend Ezra, Mike's friend/client gets his pair in the next couple of weeks who lives a few miles away. Since I reviewed both the DI's and the Ulfbreht's, just submitted the Ulf's review to my editor at hometheaterreveiw.com, it will be very interesting where the DI SE's will fit into the overall sonic perspective in Tekton's line.
Finally, just wanted to share that the AricAudio SET KT-88 amplifier is just "killing it" on the Ulfberht's across every sonic parameter! And for you "power hounds" this SET is 22 watts per channel and delivers massive dynamics/control and dB peaks that could hurt your hearing very easily on either the DI's or the Ulf's. I still can't believe that Aric only charges around 2K for this terrific amplifier. Another "Eric" that is very smart, builds quality pieces and charges insanely far prices for reference level creations that allow us "poor" folk to have great systems. Companies like Conrad Johnson, BAT, Audio Research, VTL might be losing a lot of customers if listeners would use their ears and not the price of what the piece costs. I have to add Aric's amp to the list of Linear Tube Audio and Tekton Design regarding the most "disruptive" gear on the market concerning performance to cost ratio. For very reasonable $ one can put together a killer world class system!
Terry, when you find a disruptive product in the video processor(pre-amp) and multi-channel amp categories, let me know -- I’ll be in. Are you also going to do a review of the mini-ulf or is that not decided yet?
treebeard -- That really is a great color. If I would have seen that, I might have gone with that, but I do like the gloss finishes. Really a nice choice there.
I'm sorry I won't be able to provide information on disruptive gear in the video processor/muli-channel amplifier areas because I only review two channel audio gear.
I would love to review the mini-Ulf's if Eric would chose me to do it. It's been a joy and pleasure to review the DI's/Ulf's and be part of the experience of a new "wave" of stereo equipment that is reference level in performance but reasonably priced. It's the kind of gear I get a kick out of reviewing, not the over priced hyped gear that gets most of the attention because of advertising and being pushed by certain reviewers that have their reasons to promote this gear to their readers who unforunately take them seriously.
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