Tekton Double Impacts

Maybe.........  Alright, sot it's got more than six tubes!

schw06,

"I finally read a Nelson Pass article about distortion and found out that it's about an even split between people that prefer 3rd order harmonic distortion to 2nd order....Clearly my ears prefer the 3rd harmonic and that truly helped me make decisions about speaker choices and amplification. It was liberating to know that there wasn't something wrong with me for not loving SET"

Here is a link to the article from Nelson Pass that David is referring to in his previous post on this same page above.

http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_dist_fdbk.pdf

It's a long read but just like any of Nelson's other articles,
It's very well explained and makes perfect sense.IMO.

Kenny.

@ lpretiring

Same as you, I don't want them unless they are 100% completely ready. I will await your update. Thanks

Thank you, Kenny, for reposting this  article by Nelson Pass. I read it a few years ago and didn't understand it then. I still don't understand it, but I misunderstand it less now than then. Like you, it helps explain why I like the sound I do from my F-3's feeding my Brilliance for opera and chamber music with some symphonies thrown in.

Regardless, Eric's speaker are sooo  revealing. I'm still tweeking minor speaker positioning. I still wish someone would tell me if I would benefit by moving higher up the food chain either in First Watt or Pass amps? Even though Reno Hi-Fi is generous in their return policy and trade ups, it still is a heavy lift for a retiree on a fixed income. But, for the sake of undistorted 3rd order sound...no pain, no gain (pun intended).  Others on this lively thread are welcome to chime in.....But please don't try to convert me to tubes.  I tried a modified Dyna-kit st-70 years ago and ...don't get me going. A real pain in the tochos for mushy sound.  Excuse this ramble. It's late in Utah.

"Schwo6", I'm looking for your post, but got lost in the dialogues about tubes or paint......Join in, if you wish.

Thanks teajay, any info would be appreciated. They sound like wonderful tubes. I believe Kenny is correct in that they are not Shuguang tubes but are Golden Dragon Retro KT 88's that are replicas of the GEC. Thanks for the info Kenny.

Ill find out soon enough as I orders a matched quad of the Golden Dragon Retro KT 88's. The bay has them at a reasonable price, which I'm a bit leery seeing as they are twice the price at another shop in the US and at another in England. Hopefully I'm getting the real deal. 

Corelli, you tease! Share your tubes with us......that sounded so wrong :)

mazikrav,

If all you have ever heard in tube land is a mushy old dynaco then you have no idea how good they can be,but I will say no more unless you ask and I will lead you to a F7 which I think would be a logical stepup in a slightly more open sound but still retaining plenty of that 3rd order sound you like and may also have a sweeter top end and slightly better control of the bass.
The 30.8 is very nice also but is big,heavy,and puts of more heat than a first watt and probably is a little overkill for you in Pwr.

The best SS that I have heard yet is my Diy Sit2 that uses a pair of Nos Sony Vfet's in a push pull topology making 40watts into 4ohms,
but these are rare amps and only a handful were built from a small collection of matched and genuine Sony transistors and they are pretty much unobtainable now.

Nelson does have a couple new amps in his FW lineup coming out probably next year and that would be the F8 and the Sit3.

Or you could really step out of the box and get yourself the all in one Lyngdorf Tdai-2170 that grannyring and others are really liking.
I personally haven't heard one but I will predict that in the next 5 to 10 yrs this kind of Class D technology will be further refined along with improvements to switch mode pwr supply's that will turn the Audio Industry upside down and probably only small percentages of Audiophiles will retain their Tubes and Class A SS gear.

I'm stocking up on tubes as I write this post because I will always have a least a couple of Tube amps for a different fun flavor forever.😃

Kenny.

Thanks, Kenny:

You're a real treasure!!!!!
I'll keep your post for reference over the next months and find a way to research all the options. No questions right now. I'm too busy listening and saving money.  But next year......

Hello Mazikrav, 
Kenny provided you with excellent recommendations given your stated listening biases.  Kenny sent me his First Watt S.I.T. 40 watt push pull amplifier and I've had the pleasure of using it the past few weeks.  It is simply a terrific effort by Nelson Pass,  pure class A design. It is one of the very best sounding solid state amplifiers I've heard  (and that is a large number believe me). Unassuming appearance but fabulous sound quality is my summary of it. 

If I were to go down the transistor amplifier pathway this First Watt would be near the top of a very short and selected list.  I believe that this particular amplifier or something quite similar to it would make you happy and utterly satisfied. I also believe that you'd love the Pass Labs XA 30.8 as Kenny mentioned above. 
Charles 

Kenny,
Agree with your comment regarding the Dyna 70 tube amplifiers,  I had one years ago. In all candor it cannot honestly be mentioned in the same breath as the higher tier well executed tube amplifiers I've owned/heard subsequently.  It is very far down in the pecking order 😊. Mushy bass it certainly had,  this amplifier is the antithesis of my Coincident Frankenstein. 
Charles 

Mazikrav, 
As mentioned above by Kenny the Lyngdorf 2170 is an option you may want to explore.  I suspect that it could be quite special. 
Charles 

What is this groups general take on Herb Reichert’s (Stereophile) review of the Linear Tube Audio ZOTL40 Mk.II? He didn’t pull any punches which is refreshing, frankly. Overall, he thought it was a nice sounding amp but overpriced and a little lean even with the LTA preamp in front of it. He preferred a PrimaLuna amp/preamp combo. Urban HiFi didn’t argue much in the Manufacturer Comments but you could tell was a little taken back. I haven’t heard the ZOTL40 MK.II so I can’t really comment but I was surprised when I read the review last night.

Speaking of tubes, just got in the new TAS (#276). Harley did a review of the Berning 211/845 monobloc amplifier (a cool $75,000/pair). Called it the "finest amplifier I’ve ever heard". No mushy rolled off classic tube sound here with "superb bass, wide dynamics, and stunning resolution and transparency". 60 watts of Class A triode tube power with zero feedback. This is his best ZOTL design yet, according to Harley-

pawsman

"(a cool $75,000/pair)"

Does not quite seem to fit with the overall theme of dollar/performance value of this thread.

   LP

If you are going to be a good reviewer you have to call it as you hear it. I believe that most people will appreciate and respect the honesty whether they agree with the revierwer's  impressions or not. Every component has a sonic character,  I'm unaware of any dead neutral audio components. 

Regarding Linear Tube Audio I don't know if there is a "house sound" throughout their line or not.  My listening experience is only with the MZ2-S  as an integrated amplifier and used as a preamplifier in Tom's and my system.  It has a clear,fast and detailed sound presentation.  Relative to the Coincident components the MZ2-S  has a lighter and leaner sound character, less tonal fullness or harmonic richness. Overall less weight and color saturation/vividness. 

It will be a matter of which type of presentation someone is seeking. 
Charles 

Thanks Charles. Helps a lot. Especially when you describe the MZ2-S as having a lighter, leaner, less tonal fullness/richness or color saturation/vividness than your Coincident equipment. I've heard  Coincident used in a number of systems and was always impressed with its realistic presentation. Doesn't mean LTA is bad or wrong just probably not what I would prefer.

Correct, no way suggesting the MZ2-S is not good, just that it had its specific sonic character traits which contrast to familiar components that I currently own. 
Charles

The LTA kit is very responsive to tube rolling and they can be "warmed/richened" up with alternate tube choices.

Though I believe Mac has some pretty top notch tubes already installed 

One of the things that fascinates me about this hobby is how ubiquitous it is.

I purchased a Musical Fidelity A5 disc spinner early 2016. My impression with limited experience with CD players was it was good but had a deal breaker flaw. It had a lighter, leaner lower mid-range which seems somewhat similar to some of the recent opinions of the LTA gear. 

With a lot of Herbie's isolation products, along with excellent additional advice on DIY efforts (I'm not referring to parts upgrade, which I never learned enough about to venture into that realm) the player truly is balanced from top to bottom with excellent richness.

The final piece which took it from frustratingly close to a proper musical piece for me was with the addition of their tiny CD mat. No give and take which was my experience with another mat, only give what was still needed. 

Of course my efforts with this player would not exactly coincide with amplification. However, so much can be done for equipment just in the areas of isolation, acoustics, tube rolling, and if you have the skill, part upgrades, etc.

So much to consider when we evaluate the many forks in the audio road.

   LP

LP - Once you get to a certain level of performance you begin to realize literally everything in your system can make a difference in perceived sound quality. However, fundamental design improvements (such as the Tekton tweeter array) is what propels this hobby forward IMO. I could tweek all day long and never get a normal set of speakers to sound like these.

At the time Charles heard my system I was running Marconi BL 63's ( with adapters) and Brimar 12AT7 yellow T labels. I'm now running the TungSol 12SN7 round plates with Sylvania Gold Brand double mica 12AT's. Sound quality is quite similar and I can put the cover on the MZ2 with the TungSols in it. 

I thought the sound difference between driving the DI's with the MZ2 alone and using the MZ2 as a pre driving the Frankensteins was quite dramatic. I'd describe the MZ2 sound as very pure and clean, which I like. But compared to the Frank's that purity seemed as if the music was stripped of texture, density and weight. I can see where some might prefer that lean, pure sound but I preferred the more weighty sound of the Frank's. I'll be getting teajay's Cyber 30 2A3 SET today and the Aric Audio Transcend KT 120 SET in a couple of weeks to experiment with what sound I like better. I have high hopes that Aric's amp will sing with Eric's speakers. 

lpretiring

One of the things that fascinates me about this hobby is how ubiquitous it is

Huh? You find high-end audio ubiquitous? Where do you live? In my part of the world, it's very much esoteric.

Sbayne,

I agree with you that design breakthroughs can bring gear up to another level, and is the foundation for audio advancement.

As we acquire different equipment either purchased or auditioned, it is an evaluation process for each of us to decide which pieces are a hit or miss, and also how to extract all the potential from a worthy candidate.

    LP

I'm with you @cleeds  I would say it's the antithesis of ubiquitous....perhaps LP was thinking of a different word or definition?

@lpretiring  Can you clarify? Thanks.

Dynaco ST 70, the largest selling tube amp of all time.  Still being used and modded by thousands if not 10s of thousands.   A purity of tone all its own. 

 Cleeds, David_ten,

I live in the suburban Chicago area.

Oh no, I did not mean that we folk are everywhere. I myself only have one friend who is a believer in what we do. He has a WAF that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. But that's a different story.

I was referencing how this hobby has endless possibilities with every move we make in pursuit of excellent sound reproduction.

Sorry if I was confusing.

        LP
      

Many thanks to Charles, and jetter:

Jetter, when I had the ST 70 I was pleased at the beginning, but soon the tubes degenerated, the caps (or whaever) began to crackle and I had i rebuilt.  Unfortunately, that only revealed a cerain dullness at the top and a mush at the bottom. My dog once burned himself on the tubes and I never could keep he doggon thing biased.  I knew how popular it is and how many folks have modded it for love or money, At that point, however,  I decided that the amp was a means and not an end.  So I tried a Bryston B-60 and lived with it's flat harshness for a couple o years.  Finally I read Nelson Pass's articles about "the first watt  and that's my story to date. 
The closest I've gotten to anything electronic was changing the caps on an old pair of Spica TC-50's which I gave to Eric Alexander to excite his curiousity. (BTW the ST-70's had a bad habit of burning tweeters on my Paragon Jubilees which are still languishing at Aris Audio here in Salt Lake City.

 Only a bottom feeder's personal journey.  It might be interesting to hear how others have reached the rarified air of electronics worthy of Tekton Design.  

Charles, thanks for your confirmation of Kenny's recommendations. Do you (or anyone) have first hand experience with  the Lyngdorf 2170?
It seems that  this Danish firm also sells a stand alone amp without the equalization doo-dads, or am I off base.

I envy you folkis who are able to trade gear, but coveting is one of the Big Ten

The LTA Zotl 40 is my opinion like a blank canvas in sound and most definitely can be voiced in several ways but Offcourse can only be taken so far and some folks may still a preference in a warmer,meatier midrange.

I use 1966 Mullard xf2's el34 with either rca 5751's or brimar 6060 in the 12ax7 input differential pair.I have found no difference in sound by changing the phase splitter 12au7's.

This combo gives me plenty of meat on the bones in the mids equal to like eating baby back ribs instead of the big fat spare ribs that I don't like as well.😋

I tried the gold lion kt77's but I didn't care for them at all and I have a new quad of the Sophia electric el-34's but I haven't tried them yet.

I mainly listen to my little consonance 2a3 set and I'm patiently waiting for my Aric audio custom 2a3 to be built.

The Zotl 40 just like my FW sit is going nowhere they are both that good and I consider them to be keepers.


Kenny.

@lpretiring  Thank you. Makes perfect sense and I understand now.

Just wanted to thank Charles and Mac for running exactly the listening experiment I wanted to read about from my comments earlier in the thread.  Much appreciated... and a lovely thread all around.  Super informative.

Jetter,
You are right regarding the popularly of the Dyna ST 70 amplifiers, Yes modification can improve them up to a certain point, agreed. I didn’t have the difficulties with mine as Muzikrav experienced. My only point is that you can proceed "-far" beyond the scope of what the Dynaco has to offer . I believe that Kenny was making this same observation as well.

The Dyna ST 70 is very affordable and allows one to experiment with various upgrade projects and learn but IMO it has limitations compared to other options. I would say it does have a nice midrange but has obvious weaknesses in bass and upper frequencies, and other areas.

You can go further with better quality tube power amplifiers, much further. I would not use this amplifier as an adequate example when comparing the merits of what tubes provide sonically versus solid state amplifiers.
Charles

Hi Cal,
You are welcome. Despite my Frankenstein MK II having only an 8 and 16 ohm speaker taps it did sound marvelous driving the 4 ohm Double Impacts. It does make me wonder that  the current Frankenstein with 4 ohm taps would very likely improve the quality of sounnd even further.
Charles

Mazikrav,
I haven’t heard the Lyngdorf 2170 but I trust the opinion of Grannyring and he says it is superb.
Charles

I believe there are two kinds of audiophiles:those who use components to listen to music,and those who use music to listen to components.
quoted from: AHC the absolute sound.My reference is live music.
ALLEN THE VOLUME KING.

Nice quote. Volume should likewise be different depending on the recording. Acoustic jazz trio in a club versus rock at a large venue. The illusion that you're there when you close your eyes. 

Hi All.

OMG, I can not believe that I am responding for the first time to this particular thread. When I clicked "last" I expected page 8, not 52... I too am looking to replace my current speakers. 

Currently, I am using the Decware 945's with the midrange option.

Love them, however, I can not crank the volume to a point where they can be fully "present".

I am using a Cary SLI-50 (EL-34 based amp - VERY nice tubes currently in it...) w "bla bla la" whatever in front as far as TT and phono stage goes

Here's my thing. It starts w the recording/pressing. The cartridge interprets that. Then there is a bunch of translation between the cartridge and the speakers.

As you get money, you change the bits in between.

With limited budget - divorce - I have to be careful w how I move forward with my audio therapy.

I have been looking to replace the Decwares w Harbeth 30's. The Cary w a "modern" C22 and one of their SS amp's. The TT can wait as I want to do a Lenco DIY Corian plinth TT. PS, pending tone of TT.

These speakers are getting some seriously great reviews.

My question is this. How do they compare to the 30.1's and how do they compare to these https://www.vonschweikert.com/copy-of-vr-reference-loudspeakers  The Von Schweikert VR Reference? 

I have a friend who is running a C2600 through some MC75's into a pair of Von Schweikert speaker - model number I forget - but they are WAY up the evolutionary ladder. And OMG do they sound great.

Would greatly appreciate some input as I am not necessarily a newbee to figuring out what kind of sound i like, but I have been out of the game for a long time and I have limited, albeit reasonable, resources.

Thanks in advance,

P

Perkri,

If your question is how do the DI's compare to the VSA VR-33's I can shed some light on that as I own both.  The 33's took forever to break in--almost sent them back.  But after 300hr they evolved into a very nice speaker.  Easy to drive, they sound very nice with tubes or SS.  The BIG advantage for some is that this speaker was designed to sound great up against the front wall.  So in some situations this is a big advantage.  I have them in a large open room and they sound far better with a seated position towards the rear of the room.  This is not a speaker that sounds great in near field applications. They really open up when there is more reflected sound

The DI's however best the 33's in just about every other respect.  The DI's are a bit more dynamic, have better clarity and detail, have much better impact in the bass and midbass.  I would never listen to the DI's up against the front wall.  Pulled well out into the room and maximizing first arrival information they image beautifully and outclass the 33's here too.

Both these speakers are excellent values for the money.  The 33's have have fewer higher quality drivers and a much better dead cabinet.  But the DI's, despite their economy cabinet, win out overall.  Driver quality  is good to very good--but the key to the great sound is in the driver implementation/tweeter array. 

Thanks Corelli!

Thats some great insight!

Appreciate the comparison. 

This helps a lot.

Not going to be pulling the trigger for a bit, but will continue following this thread and see where I end up!

p

@perkri  I was actively considering Harbeth and auditioned the Super HL5Plus in depth. I spent some time with the 30.1s but was more interested in the soon to be released 40.2s. I really liked the HL5+ and believe I'd be happy if I had moved forward with one of the Harbeth speakers.

I'm speaking from memory and the comparison is disparate in time...but I would give the overall nod to the Double Impacts (mine have the upgrade) UNLESS you have a natural preference for the Harbeth sound.

All the best in your quest. 

The unique thing I like about Tekton in general is they buck the predominate trend in high end audio in recent years towards smaller, less efficient, and still increasingly expensive speakers.

Size matters with speakers and drivers and so does efficiency if done well.    As does cost, needless to say.

So they seem to have found a nice niche with not much competition at their price points currently.  Smart!   

Yep, I also like the Tekton approach to design and manufacturing speakers. I don’t own them but I would really like to see them succeed in the High End audio marketplace. It is a wise decision to make their speakers more efficient/higher sensitivity and easy to drive, just plain common sense in my opinion.

Expanding the variety of amplifiers one is able to use is a very positive circumstance. This thread is proof that people are using all manner of amplifier types quite satisfactorily. From my observation much of the criticism directed toward them are ironically due to their affordable cost. The attitude seems to be the Double Impacts can’t be that good, after all they only cost 3000.00 dollars. It isn’t possible to get true High End sound at that price point.

This thread has revealed that quite a few DI owner’s prior speakers were significantly more expensive yet outperformed by the DI on sonic merit
Charles

+1 Mapman +2 charles1dad. Could not agree more. Best, mikirob 

"So they seem to have found a nice niche with not much competition at their price points currently. Smart! "

I could'nt agree more,kept a bunch of money in my pocket.

Charles,
Do you have any plans to demo the SE version of the Di speaker when Mike Kay owner of Audio Archon has a pair in house and setup.Just curious my friend.

Kenny.

Hi Jetter, 
I don't have any reason to suspect that you are a DI "basher". My only response to you was concerning the Dynamo tube amplifiers and even that is just us sharing personal impressions. There was a thread started by gon member Inna dismissive of the Double Impact seemingly due to low cost and lack of suitable status and prestige . To the best of my knowledge he has not listened to the speakers. A number of posters on that thread apparently had a similar attitude. 
Charles