Tekton Double Impacts

Hi Kenny,
I'd be interested in hearing the  Double Impact SE version due to my very favorable encounter with the "standard" DI (+300 dollar upgrade package) in Tom's system 2 weeks ago. With different cabinet,  drivers and crossover components it does raise the curiosity level for me. 
Charles 

Hey Guys, 

Great news!  I purchased a matched pair of JJ Blue Glass KT-88's, cost $120.00, and cannot tell the difference between their sonics and the much more expensive Shuguang tubes.  I have total trust in Brent Jesse, who's opinion was that the JJ tube if  not a exact sonic clone of the famous NOS Genelac's comes pretty damn close for pennies on the dollar was spot on.    

Hi teajay,
This is my first post but have been following this outstanding thread since the beginning. Your preference as a partner to both DI and Ulfs so far have been the MicroZOTL pre amp and Triode 2a3 SET. Given the high praise you gave to the Aric Audio amp, would this make you change your mind about what would be best? Again, thanks for the excellent posts and tremendous reviews! 

I'm wondering how many Tekton folks here are preferring them with tube amps and how many prefer them to other speakers with a beefier SS maybe even Class D amp?

Hey Werther,

That's a great question.  Without copping out here's my answer.  Either amp driven by the Micro-ZOTL on both speakers are superlative in their performance across the sonic spectrum ( Timbres/color, micro-details, sweet extended highs, 3D imaging, great sound-staging, and excellent bottom end performance).

The Triode Lab SET 2A3 is slightly more 'Colorful" with a smidge more of the "meat on the bones" imaging, the AricAudio SET KT-88 is faster, offers greater space around and between players, but overall is still as smooth as melting butter.

This would totally boil down to personal taste, not an objective measure.  

 

Hi Teajay,
You are clearly happy with the Triode Labs 2A3 SET and the Aric KT 88 SEP amplifiers.  How do your Pass Labs XA 60.8 mono blocks sound driving the Ulfberths compared to these two?
Charles

@mapman  There have been a significant number of posts on the Double Impacts paired with tubed amps in this thread, but my guess is that there is a somewhat-silent solid state majority.

I've used Class A, A/B, and D solid state amps with the Double Impacts.

Having more power with the specific amps has certainly been nice and the extra power certainly brings something to the table.

As for a preference between tubes and solid state, in my case, I'll probably fall in the agnostic camp with both being very enjoyable and satisfying for me. I am exploring tube amplification options but haven't finalized on a choice.

So, has anybody heard when my mini-Ulfs will ship?

I've been meaning to ask. 

others on this lively thread are welcome to chime in.....But please don't try to convert me to tubes. I tried a modified Dyna-kit st-70 years ago and ...don't get me going. A real pain in the tochos for mushy sound. Excuse this ramble. It's late in Utah

Mazikrav,
I have a set of the Double Impacts with the capacitor, coill & binding posts upgrade in Ferrari Red BTW.
I am using a Rogue Audio St-100  , that i just got a couple of weeks ago  to drive them .
It uses four Kt-120s on the output and a pair of 12AX7s on the first stage , or input stage, and a pair of 12AU7s on the 2nd stage ,or driver stage .
 I replaced the stock 12AX7s with some NOS Telefunken ribbed plates from the 60s and WOW......It is Absolutely Glorious sounding .
I have the Bass slam , speed ,and articulation of  a solid state amp , but with the Tube magic everywhere..
If you did not know any better you would say that it is the sweetest solid state amp that you ever heard.
In fact it is the best amp that i have heard .
read the reviews
Scroll to the middle of the page on the link for the reviews

Mapman,
My purely biased answer is that Single Ended Triode tube amplification is the best sounding for any emotional meaningful reasoning in sound presentation.

Generally speaking, solid-state is a compromise IMHO, but more specifically, Push-Pull amps are a compromise regardless of whether it's tube or solid-state.  Even the best class A Solid-State doesn't compare to Single Ended Tube Amplifier sound quality-wise.  I prefer 8-10w 300b variants.

This is purely subjective of course, but I'm not alone in this camp.   

http//www.rogueaudio.com/Products_100.htm
lets try again on the link , sorry

I have been listening to the DI's that teajay reviewed and will be writing a follow up to Clement Perry's review for The Stereo Times whenever it's posted.  I have been listening to the DI's with the tube based VAC Signature 200 iQ as a stereo amp (100 watts per channel) and two of them in mono (200 watts per channel).  I have also recently been listening to the DI's with the Class A solid state Bully Sound Company m100 mono-amps.  I will have a few very interesting items to share with readers.  Should shake the tree a little but will be fun.  More to come.

Hey Charlies,

I have owned for over 30 years Nelson Pass's wonderful amplifiers ( Threshold SA-1's, Aleph 1's, XA-60.5's, XA-60.8's, SET-2) and loved them all. Each generation of his great creations got better and came closer to what tubes have to offer in a solid state design, but tubes, particularly SET designs offer aspects (spatial qualities / 3D imaging / timbres/tonality) that even his wonderful transistor amps just can't quite provide.  Therefore, the Pass Labs XA-60.8's comes in at third place behind the Triode Lab SET 2A3 and AricAudio SET KT-88 amps driving the Ulfberht's based on my personal taste.

However, I still have not heard a P/P 120 or 150 tube based amplifier that I have liked better then the XA-60.8's. The Pass Labs amplifier sounds more like a great tube ampilifier compared to the tube amps using this configuration and these tubes to my ears.

I'm still relatively shocked with what I'm hearing from Aric's SET KT-88 amplifier.  It's a great combination of most of the color and palpability of a SET 300b with the slam/speed more like a 845 SET based amplifier.  Never would I have imagined that a KT-88 could sound this way, but I never heard a SET design using this tube before.  This is a great amplifier and very reasonably priced indeed!   

@evolvist  Mini Inquiring Minds (MIMs) would like to know. Perhaps you could start a pool?

Teajay, 
Thank you for your reply regarding the listening impressions of these three fine amplifiers.  The Pass Labs XA series of amplifiers are upper tier solid state amplifiers and thus are a very creditable reference point.  As you rightly observe, it's a matter of individual taste. Wow,  you have or had the First Watt S.I.T. 2 ? You've certainly  owned  some excellent power amplifiers which fortifies one's perspective. 
Charles 

 
jcarcopo35 posts09-14-2017 7:20pmMapman,
My purely biased answer is that Single Ended Triode tube amplification is the best sounding for any emotional meaningful reasoning in sound presentation.

Generally speaking, solid-state is a compromise IMHO, but more specifically, Push-Pull amps are a compromise regardless of whether it's tube or solid-state.  Even the best class A Solid-State doesn't compare to Single Ended Tube Amplifier sound quality-wise.  I prefer 8-10w 300b variants.

This is purely subjective of course, but I'm not alone in this camp.  

Generally speaking tubes are a compromise IMHO .My point here is that the Rogue Audio ST-100 comes closer to giving you the best of both worlds,compared to other tube amps.Not many amps can do this  .It has some nice solid state attributes,such as , Speed , Dynamics, Articulation and Bass Slam., but it  also has the qualities that you look for in tubes, such as Presence, realness ,smoothness, imaging ..etc
There is LESS of a trade off in either direction.
I agree that Sound Quality is also quite subjective .  

Statements such as SET are the best for emotion and solid state are best for bass slam/dynamics are WAY too general and are simply not correct.  Sorry.  I've owned or heard so many amps I know that's not true.  The best amps I've owned were Shindo Sinhonia which are 40 watt push-pull amps. The key is to match them with the correct speakers and get the room/set-up right. 

grey9hound, Jerry at 10 Audio certainly agrees with you about the ST-100; http://www.10audio.com/rogue_stereo100.htm

I just received my Tekton DI's today. I got them hooked up, still messing with placement here and there. They are a little imposing in height. I ordered the low gloss black rather than spend more on the gloss color. I did speak to Eric briefly. He was very enthusiastic, so much so in fact I began to recoil a little. My expectations were getting kind of high, i told him so, and he said, "Well, remember, these are only $3000.00 speakers after all so..." We kind of left it at that. I had auditioned a few different speakers a couple of years back and I wasn't particularly impressed. I had the Gallo 3.1 reference speakers with the SA. They are the ones with the dual voice coils. I liked them but I didn't love them.I traded up for the 3.5's and I thought there were some decent improvements. I changed speaker cable, power chord, IC's a few times and couldn't really get out what I thought should be coming out of my system. I read a lot of reviews. A LOT!! And I read them over and over trying to glean any information to get a better idea of what I had, or what I could get to enhance my system. I read speaker reviews by these pro reviewers and I couldn't figure out how they could hear all that stuff they were describing. Timber, tone, detail this and that. I kept thinking WTF am I missing. I just found out! I now know what this is all about because my system has the one thing it was missing, a good, no a great, speaker. These are tremendous. They absolutely sing. They are the most beautiful sound I could ever have imagined. They are gloriously musical, very detailed, very laid back in their presentation, just beautiful. They have the $300.00 upgrade. I am done looking for speakers! I then changed out a couple of different IC's to compare. I could hear EVERYTHING about the IC's. I am in love with these speakers! 
System- BAT VK500 amp, VK51se tube pre amp, VKD5se tube CD . Damn, it does sound sp awesome! No room treatments, just sofa, chairs and carpet. I might change the IC's but they are also very detailed and transparent. Holy crap, I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't heard it myself and it was because of you guys on Audiogon on this thread that caught my eye. Thank you Agoners!

greg,

Not gonna say we told you so, but....
Glad you are happy with your new DI's.  Just think, with break in they will even be a bit better!  Glad this thread helped

Hi Greg,
Congratulations on getting the Double Impacts (DI) . It truly makes me happy when a fellow music lover expresses such newfound joy and sheer satisfaction. When you get down to the grass roots of it audio products are just a means or conduit to get us closer to the music we love to listen to, really that’s it.

As you’ve come to realize through your own experiences not every component or speaker has this capability, some are better than others. You use terms such as "sing" and "beautiful " to describe what the DIs have brought to your system and that’s a wonderful discovery.

Getting the musicality you describe along with the high resolution isn’t a given. The lack of genuine musicality is a barrier to emotionally being able to connect and deepen the all important music involvement factor while listening. Without It will seem as though you’re detached and merely observing the music rather than being a part of the experience.

The Double Impacts have eliminated the restrictive barrier you previously had in your system. Now the music "sings" and the entire listening experience is indeed "beautiful "😊. This is a fantastic new level and there’s no retreating backwards for you.

The improved resolution provided by the Double Impacts do allow you to hear any change in the signal chain (source,amplification, cables, racks,footers etc.). All this for "only" 3000.00 dollars? Who would have thunk it? 😊 I’m very happy for you.
Charles

This thread is an eye opener!
I've tried to keep up with reading it but have been busy with other activities.
Can some explain to me what the $300 upgrade consists of?
I've been on the website but I must be missing the answer.
Thanks in advance...

@sbayne 

Well said and I agree.  Great big amp world out there and I have certainly heard SS and hybrid amps with as much or more emotion, air, tone, color etc... as a DHT or PP tube amp. These comparisons should not be in general, but specifically as every amp sounds different. Not all Class D amps sound the same or are even cut from the same sonic cloth. Not all DHT amps sound the same, nor are they all blessed with the magical qualities we all love in music. Just too simple and general based on my experience with amplifiers. 

Again, great big amp world out there folks. 

@grey9hound 

+1.  No doubt the ST100 is one of those amps that defies being lumped into tube or SS sound. Owners and reviewers have all had the very same experience with this amp. It is also a great example of outstanding value competing with amps costing many times more. 

Hi Sbayne,
I assume that you were responding to jcarcopo’s comments, he did write "IMHO" so I personally don’t interpret his comments as an  universal proclamation to be adhered to by the masses.

I do however agree with your view of over generalization regarding the various types of amplifiers. Due to many variables involved it is not possible to declare any particular topology the "best". No argument. The most one could say is that in their individual circumstance a specific amplifier was superior for them and leave it at that.

By the way I believe that your former Shindo Sinhonia would sound absolutely beautiful with your Double Impact monitors (but not declaring universally the best) 😊.
Charles

lak,

Double Impact Upgrade Clarification:

1. The 'standard' Double Impact - a true expression of extreme performance within the niche of 'affordable hi-fi and home theater'. The cost is $3000 delivered for the pair. This speaker is available in any color under the rainbow and is featured in my "Soft Gloss" finish. This is the loudspeaker reviewed by Terry London

2. Additional upgrade package: add $300 for Cardas inputs, Mil-Spec internal wiring, ClarityCap or Solen (depending upon real-time availability) within the tweeter section. Includes an oversized Jantzen or Erse Sledgehammer inductor (depending upon real-time availability) within the woofer section.

3. Next... add $1000 to the total for piano gloss black or white finish or any German or Italian matched automotive paint color.
​
Please call us directly to add upgrades and finish options.
Eric Alexander
President
I copied this from Tekton's website for you.I do have the this upgrade. There are other upgrades they offer as well but I didn't get them because I need to hear these speakers at a certain cost. I am so utterly impressed I could leave them alone and listen to them as they are, or, over time, maybe add some upgrades.
Greg

charles1dad,
Here is what is so surprising to me. I have listened to other speakers and other systems on occasion. I was never really blown away like i am with these. I have never heard anything like these but I suspect one would have to spend the big bucks to get this kind of resolution, detail, airiness,and depth. These  are sweet! I was really taken aback AND, truth here, my wife cried when we listened to James Taylor live cd. She  was touched and started talking about her past. This is how real this sound is. For $3530.00  delivery included, and got here in three days. Now, tell me who does that? Eric reads these posts , as you know, and all I can say is he killed most other speakers AND he blew them out with price too! I think that if I had heard this kind of detail in any other speaker on any other system I would have been trying to figure out how to get them into my system. The BAT amp produces 450 watts per channel at 4 ohms and may have something to do with the great bass, which I have always expected but never really saw that potential. I am left with an amazing feeling about the music. I get to listen to my beloved collection with new ears. I am hearing so much I have never hear before in this music that I have listened to so many times before. Eric made magic!
Again, thank you guys for starting this thread. WOW is all I can say!
Greg

@greg22lz 

I am done looking for speakers!
 I am in love with these speakers!

CONGRATULATIONS!!! Really happy for you in finding a speaker you love. Great that this thread was helpful in your choosing and taking a chance with the Double Impacts. Keep us updated on your audio journey with them.

@greg22lz 

My goodness your comments about your wife's experience is so wonderful and arresting. Never read a better component recap on performance! 

Hi Greg,
When I discuss the listening impressions of audio products and what is a mandatory requirement for me is the tone/timbre quality and "emotional" involvement/engagement /connectivity. You and your wife’s reaction to the Double Impact’s reproduction of music is exactly what I mean.

If the music doesn’t move you when listening to your system, something is subpar in your signal chain. Changing your speakers to the Double Impacts very convincingly resolved your system’s weak link. Good job Greg 😊
Charles

Greg - So glad you shared your story. I too have tried to find sweeter midrange production with these Gallo 3.1's. Tried parasound and the latest W4S class D amplification, with W4S DAC-2 and Live Dirac calibration. Clarity, detail and imaging was always good but I remained convinced there was something better that would retain speedy bass performance, air and improve midrange with tube glow and texture.

Enter the Raven Audio Blackhawk. This was always meant as a match for the DI's, but holy cow, what this integrated does for these 88db Ref 3.1's is amazing! Talk about speed, sparkle and texture. Details emerge without the sterile qualities many amps impart. After insisting that my wife listen, she suggested pulling up some Fergie, Beyonce pop tunes from tidal. Reluctantly I started listening only to find beautifully textured voices from these stubborn midrange speakers. Jazz instruments seem more acurate tonally and rock music still has plenty of punch. This may be one of the best integrateds for multi-genre music listening. I am thinking Pass XA30.8 or AricAudio SET KT-88 territory but with a preamplifier. To cut this short, my listening experiences paralled those found in the reviews.

A couple of nit picks - driving 25-35Hz on the Live Dirac test tones revealed limitations. This equated to the absence of club/rock concert bass room pressurization ambiance, so step up to the higher power Raven integrateds or 250+wpc ss if you want earthquake bass. Captain of the obvious.

The remote has nice weight and feel but the button press feed back could be better. 

We all know Dave Thomson of Raven provides excellent customer support, but that fact should be a side note to the wonderful music his amps make. The amp was packed well with extra tubes for rolling with labeling and an extra battery for the remote.

I am going to trust your experience Greg and move forward with the sale of the Gallos, as good as they are sounding now. I could be ordering the DI's with upgrades as soon as Monday. 

Brody

Brody,

Dave is definitely a great guy to deal with. The Blackhawk is what I was driving my DI's with when I first got them. It was a great amp but I had a noise issue with that only showed up with HE speakers that couldn't be resolved.  He also sold me the Legacy Focus SE's and couldn't believe I preferred the DI's over them......which prompted him to buy the DI's to try for himself. Glad to hear he's still using them and you'd get plenty of bass with a Raven/DI combo.

@greg22lz Greg, encourage you to post your story over at this thread started by Kenny @kdude66 "Tekton Speakers,Who owns them and what did you replace and why."

Looks like your post has made a strong impression on @brotw It may also be helpful and educational to other Audiogon members, since that thread is much more specific.

Mac,

Unless I missed it, never knew you had tried the Blackhawk with your DI's.   That amp or the Osprey were among my finalists.  Sorry to hear that did not work out--and perhaps glad I did not go with that.  Was the noise there at your normal listening level or just with the volume control turned up near its max?

Hey Corelli,

The noise issue has since been resolved so it's not an issue anymore, but the hiss was loud enough to hear 10' with mine at any listening level.  It was a great sounding amp when playing music though, especially with good NOS tubes. While it didn't work out for me I would still highly recommend it. I would think about giving it another chance but I want to give the Aric Audio Transcend KT 120 SET a try. 

I'll be curious to see how your search for an amp turns out mac.  You are wisely taking your time.

I think it's great that several A'gon members have shared their amps in an effort to help others find an amp that suites their needs.  One more example of how valuable sites like this are. 

Great to see some new posts here from individuals who have benefited from this thread.  Reminds me of when I read your posts on another site mac.  That is what gave me the confidence that the DI's were the speaker for me. 

I trust far more in the information gleaned from threads like this than most reviews offered by the major players out there.

Mac, The KT120 Aric amp may just be the ticket. I just didn't have a good enough pre or dac with built in pre to trust the first watts.

I meant to follow up with you on the Focus SE experience, but soon realized it was a $ bridge too far for this round of upgrades. Did you consider less expensive RAAL speakers like Salk HT2-TL? Sensitivity is not as good so amp choice is more limited.

I like to think you get what you pay for but with the largley unanimous experiences here, the Tektons DI's may have to be tried.

From what I gather, what the DI's lack in driver quality and precision is replaced with an uncanny ability to present a live music sound to recordings.

brotw;

I heard the Focus speakers. I thought they were very good. I like the Legacys. I went there to hear the Signatures which were more in the range of the DI speakers, but there was no comparison. I then listened to the Focus and liked them.
I didn't hear anything lacking in the precision of the Di speakers at all when comparing them to the Focus. In fact, that was my main criteria - precision and clarity so I paid close attention to both of those in my comparison.

@brotw Brody, can you clarify more about what you mean when you say:

what the DI’s lack in driver quality and precision is replaced with an uncanny ability to present a live music sound to recordings

Thanks.

@evovist  Any updates on your Mini being shipped?

@bullitt5094  All okay on your end? Haven't seen any posts since the Harvey deluge.

Just wanted to share,

My hunch all along was that the superlative sound I was getting with the Triode Lab SET 2A3 amplifier was based on the synergy between it and the Micro-ZOTL preamplifier.  The 2A3 provided the timbres/colors, "meat on the bones" imaging and the ZOTL provided the dynamics/speed and the special spatial dimensions.

I now have tried running the 2A3 with three very good tube based line-stages on the Ulf's and the "magic" was greatly reduced in the areas of PRAT/speed, overall dynamics, and a much flatter sound-stage quality.  So, this validates that it's the combo's synergy that gets you the magic I kept reporting.

I'm also coming to the conclusion that the AricAudio SET KT-120, with KT-88's instead of  the stock 120's, is a better match for the Ulfberht's then the 2A3 amplifier.  Aric's amplifier opens up the sound-staging ability of the Ulf's to a much higher degree and is very close, if not a clone, of the beautiful timbres/tonality of the 2A3 tube sound.  Nothing is quiet as "wet" or colorful as the 2A3 sound, however with NOS RCA triple mica black plate 5751's as driver tubes and the JJ KT-88 blue glass tubes the AricAudio SET is not far off in these areas.  The match of the Triode Lab/Micro-ZOTL is still my favorite for the DI's that seem to not struggle with this combo in the area of a total open sound-stage and disappearing in that sound-stage.  

  

David, somewhere in this very long thread I thought I read that these speakers were better at creating the illusion of a live music performance rather than scalpel sharp detail reproduction. The comments about the speakers being revealing of upstream components and being a perfect conduit should have clued me in to the clarity capabilities. No doubt there are better drivers waiting for the SE version.

Apparently Vitop thinks there is plenty of precision, case closed for me. Sure would have been easier with a speaker demo. No doubt this thread was valuable for choosing an amp.

Anyone using the Herbies threaded or giant threaded stud gliders with the DI's? What size and recommended length? Sorry if this has been covered already.

THAN vs. THEN


There’s nothing more embarrassing then correcting someone’s language only to realize that your correction contains its own error. Like maybe the one in our first sentence. Did you see it? That harmless little four-letter word then. It should have been than.

People get tripped up on then and than all the time—and why not? They look and sound so similar, and both words function as linguistic workhorses—then is most often an adverb, while than is usually a conjunction—which means that we mostly use them to connect more obviously significant nouns, verbs, and adjectives.

The way to keep the pair straight is to focus on this basic difference: than is used when you’re talking about comparisons; then is used when you’re talking about something relating to time.

Than is the word to choose in phrases like smaller than, smoother than, and further than. And it’s the word that follows other, rather, less, and more.

Then—the option to choose when time is involved—fits in the phrases just then and back then, and after words like since and until. It’s also in the phrases and then some, every now and then, and even then.

Let us not forget about there, their and they're :)

brotw,
I use the Herbies Giant Gliders with the DI's and like them a lot. I bought the 1 1/2" length due to my basement floor being uneven and therefore needing the extra length to properly level the speakers. I had the Focus SE's when I purchased the DI's and never looked at other speaker options......except for the DI SE's which I hope to order soon. The mini Ulfs are intriguing to me also. 

Teajay,
Thanks once again for sharing your experiences with us. They've been invaluable to me in deciding what gear to use with my DI's. The MZ2 has been a joy, especially with good NOS tubes and I'll be ordering the Aric Audio SET KT 120 on Monday........I have the JJ Blue Glass and the Golden Dragon Retro's on the way already. I should be getting the Vinnie Rossi mini Pure DC-4EVR power supply for the MZ2 pretty soon also. Fun, fun, fun. 

brotw:
I’m not trying to be funny here (and maybe you were just being sarcastic (hard to tell with just the written word), but you should not have a "case closed" just because I think there is a lot of precision. That is me, not you. You should hear them yourself, but when a speaker reveals small upstream changes (which many people have been able to hear), I just don’t know how it can do that unless it can allow you to hear the small details. I heard them heads up against that ribbon tweeter in the Focus (which I think is a spectacular tweeter btw), and thought the DI was right there if not even a little better. And this is coming from a guy that loves ribbons. I own a set of electrostats for my HT and a pair of Apogee ribbons for my speakers. So I don’t typically prefer domed tweeters to ribbons. I can’t think of the last time I did. It’s just characteristic of me. I like the openness, clarity and revealing sound of the ribbons. Yet I went with the Tektons. But again, you need to compare yourself. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but the only thing that I remember reading on the live music vs anything to do with precision, was that I believe that someone (may several people) said that the speaker is musical, revealing but not revealing in a clinical way. Maybe that was what stuck in your mind? Not sure. But heck... when you listen to them you may in fact feel that they are not precise.... It's whatever you hear that really matters.

I agree totally with vitop. The DI's are extremely detailed and very electrostatic like in the upper end. I ended up selling my Focus SE's even though they were extremely good because the DI's did everything they did at least as well and were more dynamic and live sounding to me. Musical is an appropriate description....they sound like real live music. Some might prefer a more clinical sound but I'm really enjoying their musicality. A crisp, clear, detailed musicality with beau coup dynamics and deep, controlled bass. I really believe their biggest drawback is their price as many can't believe such an affordable speaker could possibly sound as good as they do..Let me tell you, they do! 

The DI SE's might end being more refined sounding than the DI's but I can't imagine they'll be significantly more detailed. If they are I'll have a very hard time not ordering them immediately!