Like many/most here, one of the main reasons I frequent audiogon is to gather information. I am looking for ways to enhance the enjoyment I get from listening to music on my system. The information most valuable to me comes from those who share their actual experience with products that I am interested in, but have not heard in my system.
The audio community is a diverse one, with many opinions, ideas and perspectives. Many of them differ from mine, and that is fine. Those who disagree with me are free to make posts and start threads about whatever they choose. This doesn’t bother me, I am free to choose what I read, and what I don’t.
What does rile me up up is deliberate attempts to deny me (and others) access to the information that I value. There are some here who repeatedly seek to disrupt, sidetrack, derail, and shut down conversations about topics and products that trigger them. They do not contribute any useful information or experience to the discussion, and make disparaging comments about things they have zero experience with. They are bullies who mock, ridicule and provoke those who use, make and sell certain products. They seek to stifle any discussions about, and especially positive opinions of, the products and people they clearly have a vendetta against.
They can start their own threads, and talk about what a fool I am all day long, I don’t care. Their deliberate and repeated attempts to deny myself and others access to the information we value, however, are intolerable.
you have chosen Audiogon as your forum. no one holds a gun to your head to stay here.
if you want a different forum culture where listening is more respected, and price does not get many members panties in a bunch, then go somewhere like that. like this place;
there is plenty of information there, with generally much more depth than here for the most part.
this is an egalitarian ’everyman’s’ forum. any sort of viewpoint is tolerated. this is a commercial enterprise, and being all inclusive is the very tip top priority. it’s not run by members, it’s run by a company. nothing wrong or right about that, but many audio forums are run by the members.
personally i like Audiogon, and have been here for 2 decades. but it’s not my main hang out place since it does not fit me that well. i’m here when it works for me.
i’m not judging, just calling it like it is. Audiogon is not changing. so you might need to.
Thanks, I will look into that. Unfortunately, audiogon has changed over the time I have been here😕 I am reluctant to abandon it, though, as it has been a valuable source of information and comradship to me.
no need to abandon anything. simple to sign up for another forum and sample it. observe how both places deal with your question. you may find many familiar members there as here, but more focused discussions and not the crazy ’fly by’ attacks and distractions from ’ne’er-do-well’s’.
then decide where your focus should be. just don’t wait for Audiogon to change to post. not ever going to happen.
The Internet is a vast resource, but no one forum or platform satisfies my particular interests, which are always morphing. In some ways, you have to create your own network of contacts, friends and resources. I've found that most audiophiles, designers, manufacturers and engineers are pretty generous in sharing their knowledge. You'd be surprised at their willingness to talk with you if you email or phone them.
I took a look at some of the discussions you started and many seem to be about DIY tweaks--DIY Audio is yet another resource you might tap into.
I developed relationships over the years, some from contact on chat fora, that have endured. This, despite the fact that some no longer post at Audiogon, perhaps for the same reason you identified. I guess it is incumbent on you to seek out the knowledge you want and find the people who can best fulfill your needs. To me, there is no "one stop" place for that. And part of the enjoyment, for me, is the research and learning, which has its own rewards.
I’m not sure if this is what you’re looking for, but it’s a smaller forum with some knowledgeable folk, and zero attitude. No one engages in battle over audio. No question is derided or belittled. Check it out.
I think the underlying problem is that some people on here are passionate audiophiles. Some are not. Some people on here are very knowledgeable, some are not. Some people on here are probably quite well-off financially, some are not. Some people are quite intelligent, and well......
.
There is a certain section of the population here that seems to want to argue with the wall. "Old man yelling at clouds" comes to mind.
They’ll never try something new, they refuse to listen to other members’ advice/reviews/etc.... I’ve decided I just don’t have time for that in my life.
I much prefer constructive to destructive.
Ever notice how most of the real screamers don't have their systems listed in their profile? I think that speaks volumes.
Audiogon still has many good people left. Yes, the numbers of loud snake oil screechers have increased quite a bit lately, but, you can just ignore them. Not that many of these a-holes, it sounds like many as they are very loud.
One thing I have learned about any blog, it is best to never get personal with any other blogger, whether you disagree or agree with them. Keeping it neutral is the surest way to retain your sanity.
No matter where you go, there is always a "brute squad" that attempts to impose their personal view of the world. These are the kids that colored inside the lines when they were young. Now they yell at clouds. Trying to get them to think outside their little mental box is pointless. It's like trying to convince a brick that it can fly.
What I have noticed is almost none of them post what music they are playing. I am beginning to believe most of them don't actually own any audio gear at all.
Don't worry about the post deletion. Some of us look at post deletion as an Olympic Sport. I think some of the Mods deleting them think the same thing. There's a touchy one on the weekends too.. LOL I swear I almost quit posting on the weekends because of it.
I don't think it's software doing it either. Some yes! I spend too much time here anyways. I cycle on and off about every 2-3 years, I'm close.. Last time was 14 or 16 years then I started posting again..
Retirement and Covid. They go together like cabbage before a card game. :-)
Yes, it is amazing members attacking a product saying it won't work having not even tried it such as in the recent forum topic on Synergistic Research tuning disc which was taken off due to bullies.
Glad I noticed this forum topic while it was up. The OP has tried many, many things through the years and always told it how it is, worth putting it in your system or it doesn't work.
I will try the tuning disc with no obligation for 30 days and form my own opinion, not just quest about it.
OP @tommylion: it looks like your thread went sideways, attracting exactly the people you were referring to. They immediately flocked to this thread. The usual snake oil screechers, and general purpose mentally unstable derranged psychopaths & internet trolls.
And this:
Audio-gone
From the snarkiest of them all, from the dude proudly and defyingly displaying lamp cord as speaker wire on his GoodWill® Pro MKIII speakers on the very profile picture --- That is their ultimate goal. Burn it to the ground. I can assure you it was not a typo. It was deliberate, in a snarky way.
Why does anyone think this site is exclusively for people who proclaim "well I heard it so it must be so"? What’s wrong with lamp cord? Can you show that other cables are capable of doing a better job? Other than it cost more so it must be better? I don’t care one iota what anyone thinks of me or calls me on this site. Nobody is trying to "deny access to information" quite the contrary some are saying think before buying, and don’t accept some off the shelf explanation YouTube video about EM fields, energy propagation and quantum interactions, ask what the hell does that have to do with audio signals when even competently insulated "lamp cord" or basic twisted pair isn’t affected by them. Get a grip, this is hobby right, for those interested in high fidelity systems or is that high cost systems?
I like to follow the science and engineering. Then there are times I question it all. Like when I fly in a helicopter, watch a Nat Geo show on the animal kingdom in Australia, or read a thread here.
If it did not work for you fine then move on. If it did share it here and damn the deniers.
Nothing wrong. It does the job. What is wrong is going after the people who post about their experience with something more than a lamp cord, only to get ridiculed by you know who, the very lamp cord crowd, and be called stupid, gullible, audiophools, a "fool and his money departed" etc. etc.
Can you show that other cables are capable of doing a better job?
I do not have to show it to you. I can only post my experiences for ME. You figure it out for yourself, or don’t, and keep posting why it does not work, cannot possible work. You see, this is a hobbyist forum, people share their experiences, their own experiences. Freely. With no fear of being ridiculed. They don’t have to prove anything to YOU.
Oh and do not have peoples post deleted just because they evoked your name. Kind of a 🐔💩thing to do especially if one is agreeing or complimenting your post.
That is called censorship and suppression you know what I am talking about.
And you call "ridiculed" me calling you Dow Jones? I did not realize that. I thought you liked it. Remember when we discussed the stock market and the Dow Jones Industrials going through the roof? If you were offended, I won't call you that again. And I apologize (unless you like it?)
For a person that has a “god inspired” moniker of a user name, you do not convey the loving side that we often hear about.
I think “audio-gone” describes things when there is little audio talk, and mostly it is your vexation with wires, vexation with who is given a timeout, etc.
(It’s just about every gossip piece, and little that is audio related.)
I am not sure you are experienced to speak on lamp cord if you have not used the product? You should only comment on what you have personally heard.
If we can get one factual post or measurement with a cable or fuse, that would do a lot more to convince me than a hundred people spruiking the latest thing that appears like it could be complete none-sense.
If you @thynamehave a short attention span I can highlight the parts of the OP’s post for you to pay attention to:
Like many/most here, one of the main reasons I frequent audiogon is to gather information. I am looking for ways to enhance the enjoyment I get from listening to music on my system. The information most valuable to me comes from those who share their actual experience with products that I am interested in, but have not heard in my system.
The audio community is a diverse one, with many opinions, ideas and perspectives. Many of them differ from mine, and that is fine. Those who disagree with me are free to make posts and start threads about whatever they choose. This doesn’t bother me, I am free to choose what I read, and what I don’t.
What does rile me up up is deliberate attempts to deny me (and others) access to the information that I value. There are some here who repeatedly seek to disrupt, sidetrack, derail, and shut down conversations about topics and products that trigger them. They do not contribute any useful information or experience to the discussion, and make disparaging comments about things they have zero experience with. They are bullies who mock, ridicule and provoke those who use, make and sell certain products. They seek to stifle any discussions about, and especially positive opinions of, the products and people they clearly have a vendetta against.
They can start their own threads, and talk about what a fool I am all day long, I don’t care. Their deliberate and repeated attempts to deny myself and others access to the information we value, however, are intolerable.
I honestly did not see the point of the OP’s post, but you‘ve done a good job of assisting me on the derailing side.
I think all forums have their way of getting under ones skin. I used to frequent the PS Audio forums and it too used to be much more informative then what it is now...
There seems to be a obsession with the members of worshiping this guy named Al who has a few rabbits as pets... and hisconstant reminder to all of just how much money he can throw/spend on this hobby. Its to the point now that any interest in that forum would only be to the benefit of boosting poor Al’s ego... for some sort of imagined brownie point system. Sickening really...
You should only comment on what you have personally heard
This is very funny! That does not prevent you one bit from posting non-stop for things you never heard.
If we can get one factual post or measurement with a cable or fuse, that would do a lot more to convince me
Are you sure? Please define "factual post". Does sharing one’s experience of owning and using a product count? Also, nobody is here to convince you or anybody on anything. I for one couldn’t care less about convincing you.
What does rile me up up is deliberate attempts to deny me (and others) access to the information that I value. There are some here who repeatedly seek to disrupt, sidetrack, derail, and shut down conversations about topics and products that trigger them.
I have to agree with you. I have seen a discussion where the OP asked about a certain product, and a few posters sidelined that product and started discussions on a totally different product. Sad situation.
But I don't think anyone denies to provide information - in fact of late they provide over information - which might be completely irrelevant to the original post. I think based on this alone, someone started another thread that started doubting if people have "agenda" when they make posts or start a thread. It's an open forum and things are bound to happen. If the posts stay relevant, then that would be the best approach.
@holmzIf we can get one factual post or measurement with a cable or fuse
With a little bit of digging there exists more than sufficient measurements and certifications (if necessary) available about cables and fuses from responsible and reputable manufacturers.
All in about one or two lines of information.
Problem is that they don’t cost anywhere near enough. That surely can’t be right, can it?
When people attack others for challenging essentially vacant products, my shill alarm goes off. Vacant meaning very limited information available other than the advertised effect on the sound. These products can’t stand on their own so they need people stationed here to defend at all costs and the only ammo the defenders have to do that is they say it sounds good, you know nothing if you do not buy and try, and generally trying to bully others into submission. In some cases if you try and do not hear the benefits they will then attack your hearing ability or system. Happens over and over and very disgusting over time. Just part of being here. Tweak products generate lots of transactions I’m sure and are advertised all over the place here which is fine because it is a business first and forum second. Just be aware. The tweak defenders want to silence you. They can't just state their case and move on like is the norm.
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