I often hear people say "That speaker has great speed". What do they mean? I know the music isn't playing at a different pitch. Could it possibly be related to efficiency?
Has anyone heard Martin Logan speakers? The electrostatic panel plays the mid and treble while the woofer plays the low frequencies.
I always felt like the woofer was slightly lagging behind as if the bass and the upper frequencies were playing slightly different tune. The bass was in effect "slower" vs. the mids and high frequencies.
Also, most of the time, speaker frequency responses are measured in steady-state response which more or less erases the transient response, but the "speed" lies in the transient response. So two speakers can have the same freq. response but one may be faster than the other.
May be a step response measurement can tell you the "speed" of different speakers because it preserves the transient information.
i think speed in a speaker mostly refers to the mid and upper bass 50hz-250hz region which are the power frequencies where the music lives. vocals, drum kits, pianos, cellos, horns.....they all fall down or rise in this area.
leading edge precision and the presence or lack there of ease and refinement in these frequencies either impart flow and energy to the music and maintain the timing or muddle and restrict that flow and energy.
this is a speaker-amplifier-room issue, not just the speaker. and typically you see a crossover right here, amps struggle controlling the drivers here, and rooms have most of their worst bass nodes in this area. as you increase the dynamics and SPL’s this will be where things go to hell first as the combination of the speaker’s limitations, the amp and the room acoustics all rear their ugly heads.
but get the crossover out of this region, have sufficient driver surface to limit the need for much excursion, and appropriate amplifier for the speaker draw, solve the room issues, and you can get the ease and effortlessness and the speed and precision of the music will result in that speed that serves the music, the music breathes and soars.
Another way of talking about "speed" is "lack of stored energy."
I supposed that has more to do with "driver break up" or suffering from "impedance anomaly". Paper cones may have a clean water fall plot, but an aluminum cones may have "faster speed" but may not look as clean on the water fall plot.
Of course having "faster speed" does not always mean "better". There word "speed" in this thread seems to have a lot of different interpretations. Different people seem to have different impression of the word.
My subwoofers are so fast, they can do a 20-cycle sine wave in a MERE fifty milliseconds.
Not only that, I’ll go out on a limb and claim NOBODY makes a subwoofer that can complete a 20-cycle sine wave in less time than mine.
;^)
Seriously, I agree with those who have noted in various ways that what happens with the trailing edge of the note - how quickly and cleanly it decays - is (in general) more important than what happens at the leading edge of the note, at least when it comes to the subjective impression of "speed".
I think our perception of speed has more to do with how fast a speaker driver stops making sound after the signal stops than how fast it reacts to a signal. That's why larger drivers often sound slower than smaller drivers. It's not too difficult to get a driver to respond quickly when its voice coil is energized. It's a lot harder to get it to stop vibrating once the signal goes away.
Servo controlled drivers can overcome some of these limitations because they can use power to stop the driver quickly when the input signal stops.
Yes. The amplifiers output impedance plays a role. It along with the speakers impedance determines the Damping Factor which determines how well the amp can control the movements of the speaker's transducers/drivers.
Here is a question: if both speakers have the same frequency response, why does one speaker have better speed vs the other?
Another question: if one speaker uses a 4in. driver for the midrange, the other uses a 6.5in driver for the midrange, and both have the same frequency response, which will have more "speed"?
It's difficult to say since the 4in driver might have better speed in the midrange, but the 6.5in driver might have better speed for the bass.
Also in general, if a speaker has a tipped up treble response, it does lend to an illusion of having better "speed" especially on the leading edge such as guitar. Of course having too much leading edge could be a problem too.
I was going to say the impression of Speed can only be adjusted by Keanu Reeves. But then some snowflake would have that taken down. So instead I will have to seriously explain that since the "impression" of speed nearly everyone equates to high frequencies, that yes boosting the treble a bit can indeed create the impression of speed. A false impression, to be sure. But you said impression, without reference to being true or not.
The truth is an infinitely fast speaker would actually sound LESS noticeably boosted in the treble. Why? Because true speed is not only how fast something gets moving but equally as important, how fast it stops.
Which in retrospect probably is the best answer. Probably hardly anyone old enough to get the Speed reference anyway.
I agree with simonmoon. And, yes, I have noticed different amps seemingly add speed. Again probably due to transients , attack, decay, less bass overhang. Interestingly, speed hasn’t been something I prioritize but my favorite speakers have it!
I just received the center channel that matches my Legacy Focus SE L/R Speakers. It mentions "speed" in their advertising also. Here’s part of their Ad
Legacy’s best center channel speaker has been updated to the Marquis XD. Featuring our 4" AMT ribbon, as found in the Legacy Dual Air Motion Tweeter system, and the 8" Italian crafted titanium encrusted midrange as utilized in the Aeris system, Marquis XD is on par with the speed of our best towers. These high precision drivers, a new crossover, and the incredible dual 12" ultra-linear bass drivers with 15 lb motors make it the best center speaker at any price. The dual 12" woofers of the Marquis XD deliver uprecedented linear output with snap and definition with rich upper bass and clean transition to the lower midrange.
Marquis XD can be placed above or below a 60” monitor, or behind a perforated projection screen in your home theater.
simmonmoon is correct. The correct term is transient response. Speakers with faster transient response tend to be more detailed and dynamic. There are a bunch of rather silly terms out there in regard to audio equipment sound quality. Terms like pace and timing are frequently misapplied to speakers. The pace and timing of music is set by the musicians not the speakers. More poetic waxing.
Fast with a speaker for me refers to low distortion resulting from minimal time lag due to inertia between signal and movement of the transducers as would be expected with a good combo of stronger magnets, precision machining and assembly of parts, and low mass driver and voice coil.
Result is the transducer/driver moves faster and more accurately than usual in response to the electric signal provided.
Efficiency is different. That's the SPL produced in response to a standard electric signal. Louder does not mean faster or less distortion in the time domain necessarily.
In my experience 'faster sounding' loudspeakers do tend to sound lighter in bass compared to slower designs. They simply don't bother getting involved in the arduous and problematic task of reaching down to seriously low frequencies.
Nothing gives me the impression of 'slowness' in a loudspeaker as much as bass overhang where the bass rhythms simply go to pot and hopelessly lag behind.
Bass resonance factors also have an effect on the transient response of the cone as well as cabinet colorations.
In my mind, this is an artifact of tone, not actual driver speed, but since panel and cones couple so differently to a room, panels are often described as fast, while cones as slow. This is not really what’s going on, but whatever. :)
Agreed, that makes sense to me. (And resonances in a speaker can of course change perception of tone). I have a pair of old Thiel 02 speakers which were cheap even circa early 80’s. It’s a good design making the best of a cheap box and cheap set of drivers at the time. But boy does it sound "fast" in the usual audiophile sense of having transients pop out vividly, and having no bass overhang. They are rhythm-machines in that regard. It’s just that they have a certain frequency balance, very flat in the bass region and maybe a tiny dip in the right places, to have a frequency response that creates this impression.
@eric- Certainly, much of what’s causing phase/freq anomalies, etc, in a speaker system, can be corrected with DSP. ie: https://www.audioxpress.com/article/a-loudspeaker-that-can-play-square-waves Far as individual drivers(or- identical multiples) and reproducing square waves; my thoughts on correction, would be more along the line of what Infinity and Genesis(et al) pursued, with their servo-contolled stuff: https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/lightning-fast/ Personally; I’ve always trusted in a high damping factor(around 1K, out to 1kHz, usually), SS amp and long Xmax, in a TL, for bottom. Lately; I’ve added DSP, to those.
Speed is yet another quality that you may or may not want to prioritize in what you look for in a speaker. The Spendor D7 for example are a fast, nimble speaker. They have a good jump factor and respond quickly to slight changes in rhythm, a lighter more airy quality to the sound. They are attention grabbers and less relaxing for example. It isn't so obvious in all music though and for me is not a quality I necessarily prioritize.
It usually refers to the ability of an attack (the first arrival) to startle you, such as with a kick drum or cymbal. It is also about the detail which can reach you at your seat.
In my mind, this is an artifact of tone, not actual driver speed, but since panel and cones couple so differently to a room, panels are often described as fast, while cones as slow. This is not really what's going on, but whatever. :)
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