what speakers to buy

I can't be 100% sure but I think Kevin of VAC has Focal Grand Utopia for his work and personal use. This is a strong endorsement.
Yes, of course I was thinking close to the OP's upper price limit. I was in fact a little surprised that you could get such a high level of performance for reasonable money. Would I get them myself if I wanted to upgrade and could afford them? I would strongly consider them, but I would also have to get tube electronics including phono, so it would in fact be an almost complete system rebuilding except for the table/arm and couple of cables.

Wow. When shadorne becomes inflamed about you pushing brands, you know you have violated all objectivity.

Dave

sbs38,

I'm curious: has the Merlin sound changed over the years?

I had experience with the older VSMs that everyone used to rave about.
For me they utterly epitomized "hi-fi" that was detailed and quick, but dry and utterly without soul or tonal color.  Amazing for their size, but completely uninvolving.  (To my ears).

And...Bobby Plakovic passed away a few years ago, right?  Are Merlins still being made?

@gdhal   

If you were not so intent on pushing Triton you might have read this thread. Cycles2 is correct  - there is an earlier post with a link to a pair of used Focal Utopia that is within the OP's budget.

@gdhal, the Focal Utopia family has lots of models. An A'gon member suggested a pair of Utopia Alto Be's that are on A'gon with an asking price within the OP's budget.

@cycles2

I found/find the Focal website to be a bit "quirky" (i.e. difficult to readily find information, among other things). In particular, there didn't seem to be any pricing at all. Regardless, I'll stand by my assertion which is that dollar-for-dollar the Golden Ear Triton Tower lineup will best the Focal line. Even if I'm mistaken, the point of my post is that at a minimum, the OP should consider GE and make his/her own decision.

Liked the Sonus Faber the best but since I'm a bass hound ended up with a pair of PMC's which I'm pretty happy with.

@norton

Should the opportunity present itself, you may be interested to listen to the Triton Reference. Many of the speakers mentioned in this would require a separate quality sub (and likely two) to even come close to the bass/bottom of the T Refs. Despite what many believe, there is *plenty* of "sound" going on beneath 40Hz.

In all honesty...I haven't read every single response to your inquiry. However, like yourself...I've been around the block a few times and my ears have roughly 40-years of training (give or take). I grew up with a pair of Bozak 410 concert grands that were my dad's. Fortunately for me...he decided to live on a boat...long story short...they've been in my possession for 12-years or so. They were powered with an old McIntosh 2200 amp so when I inherited them I switched out the 2200 for a McIntosh MC300. Each cabinet have 14-drivers and although the cabinets are 4' x 3' x 18" (hxwxd) and weigh in at 250 lbs (solid walnut) they magically disappear when in use. In addition to the Bozak's, I've owned (own) JM Labs (big and small), Kef's, B&W's, Tanoy's, Dunlavy's, old Klipsch (when they were still made by hand), PSB's, and Merlin speakers (old and new) to name but a few. If you're interested I would be happy to share with you the three (3) separate stereo (AV) systems I have (one on each of three floors...my wife knew what she was getting herself into when we married). This said...I have auditioned and listened to in great detail hundreds of other speakers to include commercial, stereo enthusiasts who created their own and everything in between. Although I like (and prefer) the presence of larger cabinet speakers (usually decreases the need for a separate sub-woofer)...I've always been impressed with what Bobby Z., up at Merlin can shove into a box. I would encourage you to find a pair of their current speakers (floor standing or bookshelf) and give them about 20-60 minutes of your time (depending on how many LP's/discs, etc you decide to bring. In the long run...it's your ear and wallet (and loved ones) who make the final decisions. If possible, I would also audition a pair of Meyer Sound HD-1 studio monitors. I'm lucky enough to have a pair to use as my computer speakers (sort of home studio studio) but like the Merlin's...they are magical to my ears! One more thing. Many "audiophiles" I've spoken with (including myself) offer this suggestion: When you play a piece of music you have listened to over and over and over again through a pair of speakers you have never heard before and you find yourself beginning to tear-up and/or cry...those are the speakers you should purchase." Besides, life is too short to listen to muddy, watered down sound that cost you an arm and a leg! 

Best of luck!

Shawn

http://sigsound.com/product-lines/merlin-music-systems/
 

JMO, but a lot of these speakers being recommended sound fantastic for everything but hard rock which is a whole different animal. Years ago I spent almost 10 grand on a pair of Dynaudio Contour 5.4 which absolutely blew me away in the showroom but at home and especially with my rock cd's sounded sub-par.

Could have been my room, electronics, etc. but it was an expensive learning experience regardless.

Went back to Indy a few years later and auditioned some more speakers but took my own cd's with me.
Listened to some Vandersteen, Dali, B&W, and Sonus Faber. Liked the Sonus Faber the best but since I'm a bass hound ended up with a pair of PMC's which I'm pretty happy with.

Definitely do your homework if you are spending that much money.

Sonus Faber original cremonas over the M series works great with the Rogue m 180. They have better drivers, there is a pair listed that falls in your budget.

I have a pair that are powered with Rogue m180. When I got the upgrade bug, but didn't have the scratch a few years ago, I added a Pair of REL B2. Sounds incredible - Cremona and M180 are very tweak friendly.

Should also check out these guys the silverbacks and gibbons are fantastic.
 
www.devorefidelity.com

+1 for the Cantons. Best move I ever made.

@gdhal, the Focal Utopia family has lots of models. An A'gon member suggested a pair of Utopia Alto Be's that are on A'gon with an asking price within the OP's budget. 

Chlamersiv, What dealership in St Louis?

I'd wait to audition the new Elac AF-61 floorstander, which created a lot of buzz at the recent Munich and LA shows.  And they're $5000 a pair.  Worth a Google.

Maggie's have a soundstage and bass that you either like or don't, are room sensitive, and the ones I've heard seemed amp-sensitive...so more of a crapshoot if bought blind.

Lots of good choices out there.

I'd save the road trip.  To me, it's not very helpful to listen to a speaker in an unfamiliar room/electronics.  Just a poor way to make a big decision.  You have to do a home audition.

So taking a chance on the Tekton Double Impacts was the best audio decision I ever made.  These are great for rock but honestly do well with anything you throw at them.  You would really do yourself a disservice to not consider these. 

And in the interest of marital bliss, you'd come in $2-3000 UNDER budget!

@kosst_amojan

You raise interesting points regarding the AMT driver and the forward sound of the upper region. However, as a current owner of the Reference and former owner of the One I can tell you in my experience it is not "unnatural" or "ear-popping" by any means. Correct placement and/or room treatments is important though, but that too is the case with any speaker.

The OP claims he/she is looking for something in the 4 - 6K price range. Don't you think it's a bit unrealistic to even mention a Focal Utopia in this thread? If I'm not mistaken their top model is the grande utopia em and the MSRP on that is 200K or there about. If we come back down to earth, I still maintain anything in the GE Triton Tower line would be something for the OP to consider and would imagine (although I honestly can't say with first hand/ear experience) that the GE would best anything in the Focal line at the same price point.  

if you are close to st Louis there is a great revel dealer there...other brands to hear  and compare

I was in a similar situation needing to buy audiophile level speakers without auditioning. Based on my reading of the AVS forum and Audiogon I determined it was pretty hard to go wrong with Dynaudio. One of the guys who deals on Audiogon hooked me up with a new pair of Contour 3.4LEs and an ATI amp at a great price. I couldn't be happier with the setup. They sound absolutely stunning, and look gorgeous. I added a Dynaudio center channel and SVS SB16 ultra sub and I've got a nice HT setup too. I wouldn't say I'm the most critical listener, but I appreciate the nuances of well reproduced instruments playing at a healthy 75-80 db. 

I certainly have no argument with Focal speakers. However, I own a Rogue Cronus Magnum II, and I have them paired with Sonus Faber Venere 2.5's. It's an extremely strong match at a good bit less expense then Focal Utopias. And don't just take my word for it, I have a brother-in-law with $50k invested in his system, and he agrees my system sounds very, very good.

@dragonbutx, I agree with Ina about the Focal Alto Be speakers.  I used to own their bigger brother, the Focal Utopias and the Utopia house sound, build quality, aesthetics and re-sale value are reasons I would also recommend these speakers.

You may want to consider saving some money by buying a good music streamer/server/DAC like a Lumin S1 or if on a budget an Aurender A10.  I recommend making sure it's MQA certified. 

This will allow you to not buy a CD layer or a tuner.  A TIDAL HiFi subscription for $20/month gives you access to over 35,000,000 songs at Redbook CD quality.  I can't tell a difference between Redbook format songs I stream via TIDAL and CDs I play on my Ayre CD player.  You'll also have the advantage of playing MQA songs which trump CD Redbook sound quality.  TIDAL's MQA album selection is growing rapidly. 

Instead of a tuner, you can use TuneIn or other free Internet radio station players integrated in the music server. Just make sure the music server you select supports seamless integration of TIDAL MQA and internet radio stations such as TuneIn and you'll be good to go.  

Hello! Six months ago I bought AER JAZZ & SUB.It is necessary to take just two subwoofers for a large premise. Today the best speakers are Acuton and AER! With this system you will get the best high and medium frequencies, the bass will be in harmony with the AER BD speakers.
https://aer-loudspeakers.com/aer-jazz/
Here is a track without a subwoofer, so you can compare high and medium frequencies -https://youtu.be/ltHYSAZHbHE
https://youtu.be/G6crfmX5Z3E

The Focal 900 series is decent but I could see many people choosing GE and other similarly priced offerings from the usual suspects like Revel and Dynaudio over them. We stopped carrying them at the shop for just that reason but I was sad to see the 1000 series and up go. The AMTs in ELAC and Audiovector sound fantastic. I went from Focal 1008 BE to Audiovector SR1 Avantgarde Arete and it was the better speaker overall.

A second for the excellent Avanti Vs. I think (memory fails at this point) the Andras went lower.

Here are some suggestions that have not been mentioned yet:

1. Audio Physic Avanti V 
2. Aerial Model 9's
3. Rockport Mira I (The last pair sold on Audiogon went for $4700!)

Others have mentioned the Wilson Sophia II and Eggleston Works Andra.  Amplifier matching notwithstanding, the are both good choices.  My first choice would be the Rockports though a little hard to find.

My vote, of course, would be the Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S speakers and pocket the difference from your budgeted funds.  Revel F208's would be in play too and are stunning in appearance.  I'd urge an audio of the SA speakers... open baffle speakers perform in a way that box speakers can't.   Just my two-cents worth.  Lots of great recommendations from the folks about, no question.   

Paradigms That what I bought for my system over 20 years ago Studio 100 version 2 . The sound today is just as good as when I first bought them and they sound great. Many amps have driven these but they are very easy to drive. The sound of these speakers you never get tired of listening to. They  changed there product line but you have o give them a listen I think you will like them. 

Dragon - if you are upping your budget I have a pair of Wilson Audio Duette 2's for sale on this site.  I had them paired with a Raven Tube amp and the sound was wonderful.  I just upgraded my speakers to another level.  

I have been lucky enough to own many very good ones.  My listening bias is towards acoustic Jazz and female vocals.  I have had the most pleasure from the top Magnepans.  If you are more into rock, esp. at high volumes then the Maggies may not be the best. 

KEF LS50 (un powered)

I have two systems that I have spent 20 years painstakingly matching to the rooms in which I listen to music. One large room and one smaller. I do not own these speakers. I own Aerial 5Bs on sound anchor stands and Celius 202s (smaller room). I have demo'd at least 10 other speaker pairs during those years. None of which exceeded my Aerials except....

 the KEFs which I would describe as fully equal to my Aerial 5Bs at 1/2 the price. 

NOTE: I have no connection to any companies or dealers of any kind. That's my input!

if you have WAF issues, you might want to:

1. get Maggies - as they have very high SQ for the price
2. or get something expensive that looks like it cost very little

an example of #2 would be xlnt mini-monitors with some "end tables" (which are really subs)

Sorry, but I don't think GoldenEar makes anything that comes close to the Focal Utopia line. I don't even think their lineup sounds better than the Focal 900 series, except for maybe their Reference.

Apology accepted. Curious if you've heard the T Ref's. I'd suspect you haven't.

I've been interested in hearing the Boenicke speakers given their growing rep for great sound in a small form factor.  Unfortunately they have very little North American presence (non in Canada).

Probably the most open and natural sounding speakers you will find at your price point

http://boenicke-audio.ch/

Dragonbtx, are you near Springfield IL? (You said three hours from Indy or Chicago. I live in Indy.)

We have 3 dealers here, but a wider variety of what you want to audition can be found in the Windy City - a road trip is  an excellent idea. You could even plan it around a Chicago Audio Society meeting ;-). For the kind of investment you're making, take two days if you can.  Don't rush yourself. We went on an auditioning spree last spring and ended up going in a completely different direction from the one we originally thought we would take.

I've been in the hobby a long time and once had an 800+ square foot room with high ceilings - not easy to find speakers that satisfy in that large a space. My advice is to look at only truly full range speakers that can go very low and render dynamics realistically.  That usually means big and heavy and $$$ but not always.  

It's been nearly 15 years since I heard the EW Andra IIs but I thought they were outstanding - they sounded great on every kind of music played through them. They would work well in a large space. The Andras were 19k back in the day and will demand excellent and powerful amps with comparable front end to show what they can do. There was a pair earlier this month here on Agon with an asking price of $7500 - a screaming deal if there ever was one. The seller was in Nashville - worth a drive IMO.

I would also add the GoldenEar Triton Ones and (especially) the Triton References to your audition list. Just make sure the dealer has some serious electronics feeding them - GET speakers tend to get plopped down in HT theater rooms with mid-fi multi-channel amps that won't show what they can do. These are seriously good speakers: full range, huge soundstage, transparent, dynamic and they go LOW - courtesy of their integrated powered subwoofers (the Refs are rated to 12hz)  - while remaining superbly coherent. They are also, unlike some other speakers listed in this thread, easy to drive and not too fussy about room placement. And they're very attractive in a minimalist-modern sort of way. I dismissed the GET line as HT speakers for years until I actually heard them. 

Happy hunting!

Probably the most open and natural sounding speakers you will find at your price point

http://boenicke-audio.ch/

thanks again for all the input. still doing a lot of looking and reading (i know still not a substitute for listening) and checking out some of the other brands mentioned.
also think i will take a day trip to chicago in the next couple of weeks to really get an idea of what some of these brands sound like that way i can be more comfortable with whats out there.
at this point i think i may up the speaker budget a little.
short list right now is: 
focal 1038be  or sopra
dali euphonia 800 or epicon 8
revel ultima studio 2

also considering sonus faber amati homage

in my 1st post i mentioned EW andra II any thoughts on those

to all the maggie lovers i have heard some of older models and some others of that type and while i do think they sound good they are not for me on a daily basis. also ZU was mentioned and i seriously considered them for a minute but in the past i have never been happy with high efficiency speakers with more than say 50 watts.

i see all the brands and models everyone mentions and that is where the head starts to explode. so much to consider and there will never be enough time to see or hear it all. i did buy the preamp and amps by reputation and reviews and am extremely happy so far.

Personally, I hew to the likes of ProAc, Vienna Acoustics, Spendor, Silverline, and similar.  Having a better sense of your priorities, you should look at Vanderstein Treo CTs.  John Ruttan, Audio Connection, is an expert on both ProAcs and Vandersteins and gives very good advice.

I recently bought a pair of highly regarded speakers that simply don't sound like what I seemingly need to hear, and will not be buying speakers again without personally auditioning them using my own earballs. I realize you simply never know when aural synergy in your gear pile is gonna happen, so the advice of the advocates of a good return policy is well taken (assuming the break-in period is less than the return period)…my current speakers (bought years ago after being impressed by friends pair) surprisingly match well with my recently adopted lower powered SE amp scenario, and I was only trying the new ones to add a degree of efficiency...they paled in comparison to what I already had so OOPS. 

If you want something that rivals the Focal Sopras, Gamut’s, Magico’s, or Tannoy’s (i.e. detail resolution, dynamics, clarity, soundstage, imaging, etc.) few of the speakers noted above offer that, if any.

However, some, within your price range, that do are:

Wavetouch Audio Grand Teton’s / Antero’s (my choice)
Linkwitz Labs Orion’s / LX521’s (521’s are a Madisound kit) (my choice)
(sometimes you can find the Orion’s on Audiogon)
AudioKinesis Jazz Modules / Dream Maker

And... if you want a known brand name:

Emerald Physics OB’s
Nola Brio Trio (2.1 or 2.2) (my choice)

Nothing, but the best speakers available, matches the performance of any of these.

how about Zu speakers?

very easy to drive...

I have recently heard the Revel Performa F208 with a tube preamp and a solid state amp and they sounded very very good, I purchased to F206s as I have a 12 x14 room and they sound great , very detailed and smooth, not at all forward or bright. I'm using a Mark Levinson 532h amplifier with Anthem receiver as preamp. Stereophile reviews them as text book speaker design and sound way above their price. 

I agree with Randy-11. I would definitely audition a pair of Maggie 3.7is. I am predudice being a Maggie owner and lover for 40 years. Hooked me I I never looked back. In addition to the Maggie's I have used Revel 208, Focal Aria 936, and B and Ws, I just prefer the Maggie sound.  

I agree that the Focal Aria 936s are fab, and thanks for confirming my experience with them. I've listened to them with the NAD M32 I'm going to buy and loved what I heard. The 926s not so much.

chicago and indy both about 3hrs away.  the phono stage is in the copland cta-305 preamp with mullard cv4004/12ax7 tubes. 

  I read all the replies and I don't recall seeing anyone say, "Buy Bose"). A road trip definitely is in order for you. What is your nearest big city, and how far away is it?

We are talking about speakers, but your source should be excellent to experience what all those speakers are capable of. I don’t think your Denon with Sumiko cartridge and Rogue phono stage will cut it. Cables do not have to cost thousands but really good cables are not inexpensive, sometimes even used.
I like ProAc recommendation.

gotta add one more thing. the funny thing about this hobby is i can afford to spend more but i have to decide at which point i am willing to sleep on the couch or in the bed

thanks for all the great responses. some answers to a few questions that were asked:

the room is aprox: 1100sqft with 11ft ceilings and not overly lively.

did not go crazy on cable (i do think they make a difference but at this point not sure its worth spending as much as the rest of the gear costs) - i have ZU MISSION speaker wire and  ZU MISSION rca interconnects

music is mostly hard rock and classic rock - pantera, avenged sevenfold disturbed, rush, ac/dc, judas priest, volbeat with a little bit of jazz, classical, mototown and pop thrown in depending on who is over

i now have some other speakers i had not looked at before though the focals seem to get the most love and i did have the focal 1038BE  on my short list. so what models focal & revels in the used 5-6k price range are best?

i want clean and clear, but dont need to hear the guys in the recording booth talking or every mistake on the recording - just want to enjoy the music- i love the dimensionality that tubes give.  the endless soundstage

someone mentioned being new to high end audio. i wouldnt say "new to high end" just new to the modern stuff.  i have a 3 car garage stuffed full of tubes, vintage speakers, amps and parts. well maybe not stuffed anymore since i have been selling it on that one site (am i allowed to mention that?)

anyways thanks for all the great help and ideas - i think i may do some posting in other categories. maybe about tube rolling?

thanks