Anyone compare modern YGs to Magico M series?
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I’m not putting words into your mouth. I’m saying that the ScanSpeak Revelator mid-woofer cones are paper and resin composites, as opposed to simple paper. They deserve a little more than being called merely paper cone drivers. You are still free not to like them. You are free to call them paper and I am free to point out that this undersells the construction and performance a great deal. |
You don’t have to like paper drivers, or Scanspeak drivers, but calling a composite a paper driver does them a disservice. They are lightweight, strong, resonance free and low distortion, not to mention when properly used, very flat. Again, personal taste is what this hobby is about, so I'll not attempt to insist like the sound. :) |
The room I was in was the Magico demo room. I find the S1s to be probably among the worst value of the Magico line, and they sound chesty, congested. Fritz uses Scanspeak Revelators composite drivers (among others) and to my ears and that of many others, the Scanspeak Revelator mid-woofers are among the best in the world. YG, Wilson, Gamut and others agree. The cut paper drivers are much more than merely paper drivers. |
I've heard the S1 Mk II and while they had some good attributes, they were a very curious speaker. Small footprint, low efficiency, requiring a lot of space to sound balanced, and with extra resonance in the lower female voice / mid to lower piano that always distracted me, but at the same time rather cool. To me they are a salon kind of speaker, best for small intimate spaces, at low to middle volume but the amount of power they need and space makes them odd to fit. On the other hand, what a great stereo image no matter where you are. Sadly, I have not listened to the Carmel. If we are talking 2 way speakers with amazing parts, I point you all to Fritz. |
That is simply not true; the impedance (and efficency) is rather similar. I have listened to the Carmel and the S1, the S1 is much better in all aspect, and it is cheaper. It goes lower, it plays louder, and it was sweeter with more extension on the top. I ultimately bought the A3, for the extra haft on the bottom. I think the A5 will put an end to any doubt, its in a different league all together. I am saving ;) |
The YGs are fantastic paired with the right gear ... I tried no less than 6 preamps - each time getting a bit closer to what I wanted. Simply put the YGs show you what’s behind them .., if it’s bright my guess is up stream a piece of gear is causing it . My YG Carmel 1s are much easier to drive than my Magicos were and cost a good chunk more than the S1s when new., Find used ones! the gear to drive the YGs was less expensive as the speakers are easier to drive than their sensitivity rating would indicate. To be clear that does not mean all gear will sound good on the YGs . Also Carmels are not 100k either , closer to 18k, only about 82k difference. I will tell you the YGs beat out Magico S1, Nola KOs , Revel Ultima Gems, and my old altec 612 coaxial recording monitors., the Altecs held there own , but have a classic vibe . YG Acoustics Carmel’s do a great job of getting the music right . I can’t speak to the rest of the line as I have not heard any other offerings first hand . However , if they are like the Carmels ... they will make great music , just set you back some dollars . |
Too bad no measurements in the soundstage review. As I remember it was the A3 that was put up against some Revel speakers and didn't fare as well both in measured performance or blind listening tests. Also interesting is the fact such an incredibly hotly anticipated Magico product like the A3 never got a stereophile review. I asked at stereophile why was so and got hints that something behind-the-scenes was making it a no-go. |
@smodtactical
Wow Magico A3 better than Carmel? And better then the Vivid Giya G4: https://www.soundstageultra.com/index.php/equipment-menu/899-magico-a3-loudspeakers?fbclid=IwAR3Z4VUdAogP1YID6mjJ51bGjAClGCBMP7bxP90tYhiNDgez6_wwEeDOjSI#most-read-equipment-reviews |
Totally respect above post. My experience has been different as I have less than 18 inches from wall to speaker and get a nice rich textured bass. My room is 25x15x9 and no trouble filling it out. My dealer spent some time w setup but didn’t take long. Nothing I would consider lean w current setup. Decent toein as well although I know yg recommends not too much. Agree they need current. I run a SS amp 300watts/channel at 8 ohms. Perhaps this is a key for relatively inefficient ygs as well as components that pair well? I have never heard them w tubes... |
Haileys are indeed very bright and current hungry. I have some luck pulling them all the way out and placing them at 72” from the front wall to get room-coupling bass out of them to neutralize the brightness. The conventional wisdom of trying to get more bass by placing close to front wall did not work. Minimal toe in and placing them wide gets me a warmer less lean balance. I was able to play organ pieces and the infamous tricycle with no midrange flapping problem. |
@zprr how do you like your haileys? Really enjoying their sound to say the least. Over the last 12 years I transitioned from the Dynaudio Confidence C1s to the Carmel2s now the H2.2s. I had moved to a larger room and the H2.2s pressurize the room in a way that the Carmel2s could not. Vocals with the new tweeter are sublime. Of course matching components and cabling, as well as room considerations, are important. I do still pair it with a JBL Fathom 112 v2 crossed over at 28. |
Interesting. Was curious about the track just mentioned. I’ve seen that posted before on agon. Just played it a few times at increasing volumes on yg Hailey 2.2s. Shook the house, and my dog didn’t like it, but barely closed the gap between the drivers and the front guard. Easily another another 1.5 inches in between. That is a good test track albeit a bit spookyYes- and good! Its entirely possible they fixed that problem in the intervening years! |
Interesting. Was curious about the track just mentioned. I’ve seen that posted before on agon. Just played it a few times at increasing volumes on yg Hailey 2.2s. Shook the house, and my dog didn’t like it, but barely closed the gap between the drivers and the front guard. Easily another another 1.5 inches in between. That is a good test track albeit a bit spooky |
Too much lab, not enough listening?One year at RMAF YG was distributing leaflets that they made the Best Speaker. Now as we English speakers know, The Best means there can be only One, so I figured it might be worth a listen :) I brought a CD up to their room. I do not know the model, but it was a 2 1/2 way (tweeter, midrange and woofer, midrange mechanically crossed over). The cut was the opening track of Peter Gabriel's 'Long Journey Home', the soundtrack for the Rabbit Proof Fence. There's a pretty big bass note in the first 30 seconds or so. When it hit, the midrange driver buzzed loudly(!) against the metal frame mounted in front of it. The amplifier, which was quite powerful, was putting out a bit of power and since there was no crossover to keep the bass out of the midrange, despite being mechanically crossed over, the midrange nevertheless had a lot of excursion. I know of a number of speakers that can play that track effortlessly at a lot higher volume with less power. So I had to conclude that at that time at least, there wasn't only one. Disclaimer: I've not heard any of their speakers since. |
I actually think the Scan Speak Carmels are awesome. Those two drivers are far far better than usually credited. The mid-woofer often appeared in WA designs, and the tweeter is beloved by many high end manufacturers from Sonus Faber to Krell, and for good reason. I'm listening to the tweets, while I listen to the mid-woofers in the evening. But, I'm sure Fritz or Taylor Acoustics could put them together for far cheaper. :) Best, E |
I have just heard the Carmel with Gryphon at Lone Star Audio Fest and got a cool brochure as well. I actually think the Scan Speak Carmels are awesome. They have better bass than the IIs but otherwise are not really as good. I like YG’s slightly ethereal, ribbon-like quality. They are coherent, heavy on detail without the clinical sound. All that plus you get one of few sealed bass speakers for retail sale. What is not to like? Oh yeah, the price with cheapest full range at $43000. Nothing made to price point like their more discussed competitors. One could get an S3mkii for about the same as Carmel. The other band not discussed so much is Vivid Audio. |
I think YG’s are a superb speaker. Some of their older first rung models leaved a lot to be desired, but the new models are all pretty fantastic, IMHO. No flea powered amps need apply, and one had better get the upstream gear singing, otherwise the speaker will highlight the deficiencies. Nonetheless, for those with the funds...and the space....should be on their very short list. Alex at Alma is a great representative of the line....go and listen for yourself before coming to a conclusion. ( and possibly buying an inferior speaker for similar money..:0( ) |
About 8 or 9 years ago I heard a large YG model, I don’t recall which exactly, at CES. I had them play a track from Neil Young’s ‘Live At Massey Hall’. I swear I could see the stage in front of me. A truly memorable demo. They were, then and now, well out of my price range, but no sour grapes here- I wished at the time I could take a pair home. |
@erik_squires To me personally, YG is the most well rounded of all those brands you mentioned. All of those brands share their respective strengths and weaknesses. Everyone also has their own personal tastes as well. However, if you are looking for a speaker to give you what you put in front of it the YG would fit that criteria. They are extremely neutral and have almost an electrostatic like midrange. To me personally Mr. YG has gotten as close to the absolute sound. E.g. give use a dynamic driver with all the positives of an electrostatic but, none of the downsides. They don’t sound like a box. I don’t think B&W is in the same league as YG. As far as US made speakers you have to be looking at Magico and Wilson. However, The cumulation of all of YG’s technologies working together. Making the drivers as stiff as possible (without some exotic materials). The cabinets without stuffing in them etc.. The Dual Coherent crossover is probably what sets them apart from Wilson and Magico. Yes, this comes at a price but, the Sonja XV sounds incredible as do their other speakers. My only regret is yes new they start at higher price than a Magico or even Wilson. However, YG only has one line not 3 like Magico has now. The A, S and M line all have different technologies and all have different sonic character. I would love to see a YG under the 20K MSRP but, keep all the same technologies and qualities that make their big brothers so great. Perhaps we will see this now that the Magico A3 is a success at that price point. |
@jackmonster I agree that the YG/Auralic setup at AXPONA was very good. It was the first room I walked into Sunday (because it opened early) and I was really impressed. I personally liked the YG/Audionet combo better, but of course the price differential between those two rooms was substantial. I walked out of the YG/Auralic room with a good deal of respect for the Auralic equipment. YG already had my attention before I walked into the room. |
I'm fortunate enough to own both the YG Hailey and Avalon Eidolon Diamond and I swap between the 2. IMO both speakers belong to the "modern" "cool" school of sound. The YGs sound like electrostats when playing easy programs at moderate volumes, even when driven with moderately powered amps (say 50W tube and 100W SS). But to get them to really bloom and sing you have to "skip the next rung" and go with mega high current amps that are unconditionally stable yet sweet sounding. If you think a 150W to 200W amp can play it full range, then you are missing a whole lot of potential from the speakers. Placement is wickedly difficult because the bass is definitely lean. The Hailey is supposed to be a full range speaker. Not quite, when compared to the similar sized Eidolon Diamond. But the truth of timbre and texture it reproduces when driven properly gets it right at the level of Focal Utopia Bes without the noticeable mid-bass hump and sluggish lack of pace of the Focals. In my far from perfect room was able to get pretty good results bi-amping, and adjusting the bass amp to be about 2-3dB higher in gain than the main amp. With that combination I can play the Haileys loud enough to fill the room and have enough authority and no thinning out. |
I heard the YG Sonja 2.2($76K) with modestly priced Auralic equipment at Axpona. Really the best sound I heard at the entire show. Super transparent but an extremely involving sound. I could probably afford the Auralic equipment(even though 6 amps were used) but the speakers and speakers cables(Kubala-Sosna) will never be within my reach. |
co93, This liveliness is one of the remarkable things about the YGs. If you just go by the quoted efficiency, you'd think you'll need a ton of power for them to even start singing. But with modest power, at modest volumes, they're already very lively and rich sounding. And this is the reason why, no cabinet stuffing: http://cdn.exiteme.com/exitetogo/www.yg-acoustics.com/userfiles/files/PDF/Technologies/YG_FocusedEli... cheers, alex |
@almaaudio Hi! Glad you chimed in! I don’t think you need to use expletives to correct misinformation, but your points are well taken. In the US at least, I’m not a big fan of how reviewers buy loudspeakers anyway, but that’s for another thread. Personally, based on specs YG are crap. If you disagree, please send me a pair to my home address along with a complete set of tube amplifiers from CAT to .... << grin >> Best, E |
We had a pair of Carmel 2s in at our Oct. 2017 Classic Album Sundays listening session here in Colorado Springs. They were provided by a true gentleman of the audio world, Jim Haubenschild of Aberdeen Audio from the Denver area. Our other gear is indeed modest by comparison and the sound was fantastic, rich musical and detailed...not harsh or etched in any way....As you go up the range of YG, you get more bass and impact, but the quality is consistent for all YG speakers. Yes, very expensive, and with the right partnering gear, very engaging. |
I have Carmels as well. Once matched up properly with the right electronics (I use a vitius ri 100) they sound fantastic. One of the very special things about them is that they have a clarity and prescience at low volumes that I’ve never heard with any other speakers. By the way I also have sonus fabers, Vienna acoustics and TAD speakers. I do think that there are those who trash products they can’t afford. But there are good alternatives. AJ’s new ELAC, the Tritons, etc. But let’s not trash a company because they are not affordable by all. |
All, We're dealers for YG, and have been doing it for the past 3 years. I do agree that the usual YG buyer does not frequent forums. But I call bullsh*t on the "no reviewer buys them" thing. By 2015, there were at least 12 reviewers worldwide who had purchased the review pair. By now, there's probably a lot more. http://www.yg-acoustics.com/category/reviews I also call bullcr*p on the "no soul" argument. YGs are utterly transparent. You put soulless electronics with them, and they'll be soulless. Most people walk into a room at a show, dislike the sound, and blame the biggest thing in the room, usually the speakers. If anybody cares to look at the mentions of our rooms with YG at the last LAAS show (2017), you'll read nothing but praise. Be it with solid state (D'Agostino Progression) or all tubes (Audio Research). Besides, how many manufacturers gets a writeup like this: "YG Acoustics Sonja XV stands as the finest and by far the most accomplished loudspeaker I have yet heard, and by no small margin at that." Chris Martens, HiFi+, who's certainly been around and heard plenty of other speakers. We welcome everybody to come to our store and listen to the Sonja 2.2, with solid state or tubes, digital or analog. cheers, Alex |
soix Soix hit the nail on the head--Both sound as if designed by and to be listened too by a Computer --no Soul Team212 |
I'm on my third pair. Carmel to Kipod II signature to Anat III Signature. I have upgraded the Anats to Sonja 1.2 internally. There are alot of owners out there. I won't own anything but YG speakers after living with them. I have heard them sound amazing with alot of different gear. But the Audionet gear is special and perfect with the YG's imo. |
Been living with carmel 2s for the past two years. As pointed out above, I agree they excel in resolution, acoustic timber, vocals, have nice width and are still able to pressurize my small/med room with my sub off. Not the warmest speaker for sure but I would say not icy either. I do have them paired with a REL B3 and they do make a good combo. |
I also liked the Carmel speakers at the 2017 Capital Audiofest. I also heard them with Veloce preamp and Soulution amps at a much earlier audio show and liked them then too. I generally prefer warmer sounding speakers, but, for a "modern" sound, these speakers are a lot more in line with my taste than competitor high-tech designs like Magico and Raidho speakers. They are very good at getting the timber of acoustic instruments right. |
I attended last Fall's Capital Audiofest and visited a room with what I think was the Carmel 2 smaller floor standing YG Acoustics models. So many of the demos at that show featured systems that (IMO) were playing too loud and (IMO) sounded "grainy" as a result...like the system was "shouting". I found that the YG's were NOT like that, very smooth yet detailed sound, and though the demo room was not the greatest, had nice sound stage as well. I don't know of any dealers that carry the YG's and I live in a major metropolitan area. |
