I recently acquired an Audionet AMP 1 v2 that only accepts RCA single ended connections. Since all my cabling was balanced, I had to start looking for replacements for my Acoustic Zen Matrix Reference II's. Of course I could just get an RCA pair of those, as I like the sound, but I thought I would take the opportunity to check out some other options. I also thought I would start on the lower end cost-wise. I had some old Audioquest RCA's laying around and used those to start. And I bought some low cost Acoustic Zen WOW's to tide me over. And then on to Stager Silver Solids, I like these, but I don't think I love them. I also bought some Neotech cable and connectors and I am working on building a set.
But then, my dream cables showed up at a significant bargain, Acoustic Zen Absolute Copper! I was quite excited to add these to my system, and they replaced the Stager silver cables. Well, to say the difference was striking is not sufficient. The level of clarity and detail is amazing, and the soundstage is excellent. At first I thought they were kind of bright, but that is not the case, I think it is just the extreme clarity. A friend came over and he did not think they were bright either.
So, the problem, I don't find them engaging. It is possible the sound is a bit on the lean side. Everything is there, but there does not be a sum to the parts that is the music, yet I think they are absolutely accurate. It is slightly better if I turn it up, but I don't tolerate higher volumes for long, and value a system that sounds good at lower volumes. I prefer a bit of warmth, although I like to term it as a "richer" sound.
They have only been in place for a few days, so I will give them a bit more time. I know the answer, "try something else", but curious if others have run into such stark contrasts and is this what I can expect at the higher end of the cable world?
Suggestions for alternatives that might suit my needs are welcome, if you have actually tried them, and you believe that cables make a difference.
I own a pair if the Acoustic Zen Absolute Copper RCA interconnects, I have them in-between my integrated amp and my CDP. I’d suggest putting 200 hours on them before you make any serious changes. Since you have a new amp that could defiantly have something to do with what you hear and feel.
Don’t get ahead of yourself but another interconnect that I have and like and use in a different larger system is made by a small company in CA called Veritas Cable, the RCA interconnect is called Argentum R. A mix of high end OCC copper and silver, it can only be found listed on USAM.
I’m also a big AZ fan, but some interconnects that have caught my eye are Jena Labs, Snake River, and Silversmith (the interconnects are new and aren’t listed on their website yet but pretty sure they’re available). At this level it comes down to synergy so maybe it’s just not 100% there with these, but giving them a little more time especially since they show so much promise is a good idea. I really like my AZs and would be hesitant to change, but if I got the itch these three I mentioned would be high on my radar FWIW. Best of luck.
Well maybe not too perfect… just not a good match for your system.
I recommend Cardas Clear Reflection (warmest), Clear (less warm) or Clear Beyond (well, clearest… least warm). Each of these will be warmer and more musical. Best to try the end members and decide.
Long ago I bought excellent cables that were simply too revealing for my system. Cardas (the warmest interconnect they ever made) brought in the rich musical warmth my components did not have with the overly revealing interconnects, Later I acquired more natural sounding musical components and I had to take those out and the very revealing first set I had bought sounded perfect, It's all about the match,
Funny, I just went through the exactly same issue- having to get an RCA for my new amps.
Are these Absolute Copper's new or used? You say only a few days they have been playing, but you got them at a bargain which implies used- just wondering about break in- yes they need 200 hours from my experience.
I know my AZ Silver Reference II XLR's goes a little deeper in bass than the AZ Absolutes, but I think the bass weight (warmth) was equal between the two, but I don't believe I would call AZ Absolute's lean....
You are saying these other "lesser" RCA's you used had more warmth? Is that a case of the Absolute copper's being tighter and more accurate with the bass?
Another option, after having sufficient time with the AZ rca's if you still find them too thin, is to search for a power cable for the amp that can richen things up-maybe the PC you have is giving you the leanness? and/or balance that "amazing clarity and resolution" the RCA is giving you. I am surprised @ghdprenticedidn't suggest his AQ Hurricane for the amp- he usually does -and it does add some weight, and slightly rolls off the highest frequencies, and makes the top end silky. Like he said it is all about the match.
I can tell you the RCA I got that sounds really nice, nice enough for me to have no incentive to change it, but I have no other RCA's to compare them to: Inakustik NF-2404.
I'd also suggest as @lakdoes letting both the cables burn in for at least a few more weeks before making any changes. My only experience with AZ was their Silver Reference interconnects which I found to be a bit too soft sounding in my system. As with all things it comes down to synergy over anything else.
I owned pretty much every AZ cable from WOW to Absolute Copper.
The AZ Absolute Copper are detailed but warm sounding cables. They’re slightly slow sounding and I wouldn’t pair them with warm sounding equipment.
Even though I liked them I preferred Nordost Tyr 2 interconnects. Faster and more engaging sound. System has more bounce, it’s lighter on its feet. I also liked Kimber KS1126 (KS1026 for RCA). Came in close second to Nordost but can potentially be a bit bright if your system is on the lean side already.
Good point about the power cord. However, I recommend the Cardas... the same levels... as the Audio Quest will likely be too neutral. I experimented extensively with Cardas, Transparent, Wireworld, and a couple others. For my system I needed absolute neutrality... and could not afford the Transparent High Current, so the Audio Quest was perfect. The Cardas, did exactly what the OP wants.
@zlone run them in for 200hrs if they’re new. Keep in mind your amp needs to be on when breaking the preamp to amp interconnects.
And keep in mind you changed one of the key components, an amplifier. What worked with your old amp won’t necessarily work with a new one. Expect to continue making changes until you fine tune the system to your liking.
But to mitigate endless changes…My recommendation - you need a baseline. Get Bluejeans belden RCA cables, switch to all stock power cords. Listen to your system for a week or so. Then introduce AZ Absolutes back in. It’s a cheap and effective way to get to the culprit because at this point you don’t know what’s not engaging. The cables or your amp. Don’t continue dumping money into it.
As usual @roadcykleryou’re singing the same tune. This is an example of how you and others like you who are driven insane by an idea that cables can make a difference bring nothing to the table. Absolutely zero. Why do you even post? You are just completely useless.
Thanks for the responses. I agree the best advice is to be patient and let the cables settle into the system. I am usually very patient in this regard, but the difference was so startling that I decided to seek counseling. 😀
I will report back when the cables and I settle down.
Just a thought I had early this morning, I don't recall if the Acustic Zen Absolute Copper RCA's are directional or not. Is it possible they will sound more to your liking in a reversed fashion? @zlone you never said if the interconnects were new or used?
"Louis Pasteur's theory of germs is ridiculous fiction." (Pierre Pachet, Professor of Physiology at Toulouse , 1872)
"The abdomen, the chest, and the brain will forever be shut from the intrusion of the wise and humane surgeon," (Sir John Eric Ericksen, British surgeon, appointed Surgeon-Extraordinary to Queen Victoria 1873)
"The super computer is technologically impossible. It would take all of the water that flows over Niagara Falls to cool the heat generated by the number of vacuum tubes required." (Professor of Electrical Engineering, New York University)
"There is no likelihood man can ever tap the power of the atom." (Robert Millikan, Nobel Prize in Physics, 1923)
"Man will never reach the moon regardless of all future scientific advances." (Dr. Lee DeForest, Father of Radio & Grandfather of Television)
"Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible!" (Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895)
"The bomb will never go off. I speak as an expert in explosives." (Admiral William Leahy, re: US Atomic Bomb Project)
"Cables don't objectively change the sound, regardless of the cost or what the manufacturers try to sell you." (roadcykler- deaf Denyin'tologist)
quoted- "suggest putting 200 hours on them before you make any serious changes"
replied- "Sure thing when you try to sell snake oil." (classicrockfan- Dunning-Kruger Exemplar)
When the steam locomotive came on the scene; the best (scientific) minds proclaimed, "The human body cannot survive speeds in excess of 35MPH."
Until recently (21st Century); and the advent of the relatively new science of Fluid Dynamics, the best (scientific) minds involved in Aerodynamics, could not fathom how a bumblebee stays aloft.
Often; Science has to catch up with the facts/phenomena of Nature and/or, "reality" (our universe).
I haven't been in school since the 60's, but- at Case Institute of Technology; the Physics Prof always emphasized what we were studying was, "Electrical THEORY." He strongly made a point of the fact that no one had yet actually observed electrons (how they behave on the quantum level) and that only some things can really be called, "LAWS." (ie: Ohm, Kirchoff, Faraday)
PERHAPS: that's changed in recent years and I missed it?
Yes...200 hours. You see when the cables are first connected, a scout electron is deployed whose job it is to examine the route and send back information regarding how far it is to the destination, curves, rises and dips along the way, weather conditions and so on. Upon receipt of this information at the source, small teams of electrons are deployed to establish bases along the route at which the main column of electrons can rest before continuing. When the last base is created, the electrons are signaled to come on through. This whole process takes up to 200 hours. This process is sometimes called burn-in.
@lakJust a thought I had early this morning, I don't recall if the Acustic Zen Absolute Copper RCA's are directional or not. Is it possible they will sound more to your liking in a reversed fashion? @zlone you never said if the interconnects were new or used?
That's a good thought, yes they are directional and installed the correct way. It would be easy to miss the arrows on the labels, so it would be easy to install them incorrectly.
They are used. I bought them from TMR which stated they were seven years old. No other information beyond that, they might have been sitting on a shelf for years before they were sold, who knows. Some minor flaws, but got a good deal on them.
I am confident they will open up a bit over the next few days.
@steakster@mclinnguyRegarding power cables, I am running Neotech 3001 with either Neotech or Wireworld plugs, one into a PS Audio P15, and then from the P15 to the amp. Dedicated 20 amp line with Furutech NCF outlet.
Neotech makes fantastic cable, and I have heard some wonderful things about their cables, but I have no experience with them (yet), and sounds like you DIY’d it- so it is near impossible to compare with other’s notes on Neotech power cables.
No doubt they are "sufficient", but it is interesting you chose this term.
You are going through hearing differences in interconnects; many experienced "cable rollers" state power cables make the most difference of any cable change- speaker cables included.
@mclinnguy I practice every day! I spend at least an hour a day banging my head against a brick wall in the hopes I may someday knock all semblance of common-sense out of my brain and truly become a cable-idolizing audiophile.
@mclinnguyI agree that it would be hard to assess my power cords and how they might be affecting the system. Keep in mind that I have used several sets of interconnects with this system already, and there was no issue with leanness. You make a valid point, but I don’t think it is relevant to this situation.
You are saying these other "lesser" RCA's you used had more warmth? Is that a case of the Absolute copper's being tighter and more accurate with the bass?
@zlone the absolute copper may be warm and may not be exciting sounding but lean they’re not. I had so much bass output in my system with these interconnects that I had to switch to the faster sounding Nordost. What you’re hearing now is your components. The amp and preamp in full glory whether you like or not. If you want more meat on the bone add a sub and or change your electronics. I know this is not what you want to hear but that’s what you’re going to end up doing. You can try and color the sound with AQ Hurricane power cords etc. but like I mentioned before that’s a temporary band-aid.
Good luck.
Blisshifi states the Audionet amps are warm and rich biased, and others also have nice things to say about them, now I’m really confused:
Perhaps that older AZ RCA is defective? I know you said it has amazing detail, but like Audphile1 is saying which is my memory of them also, a lack of bass is not in AZ vocabulary- something doesn’t add up. Good news is you got them from TMR so it would be easy to exchange.
"Audionet is exceptional every step of the way, but it prioritizes a rich tonal density and balance (that many electronics manufacturers can only dream of achieving) over microdynamics and detail."
Another vote for Cardas Clear and Beyond. Tried the Reflection, it did not have the same magic IMHO. Found the reflection a little flat with my equipment (Pass, Moon, Harbeth).
The sound is starting to fill in with more time on the cables. I am now confident that these cables will be very good after another week of play. I will report back once they have had more time. I have just never had a cable sound so different, and uncharacteristic of the electronics, after a couple of days of sustained play, which is why I posted the original comment.
@mclinnguyI believe the characterizations of Audionet that you posted are accurate. I have been quite smitten with their pre/amp, enough to sell my Pass/Coda combination.
@audphile1As I mentioned, things are coming around, and the Audionet sound I have come to love is starting to show through again.
Thanks everyone for all your comments. I will keep you posted.
I went through something similar when I installed my Silversmith Audio Fidelium speaker cables. It took a while to adjust to the additional clarity, detail, and tighter bass.
If you want to try another inexpensive cable for grins, I just bought a Graham Slee AgSat90 interconnect. Hooked it up last night. A little over $200. Had to buy it from a UK seller on eBay. I can't believe how stinking good it is.
Saw it in your system. I will add some additional info for your consideration…
At one point I had Gargantua II cords and Absolute copper interconnects together and it was walking a thin line where another warm component ir cable could tip the scale. As it happened my buddy brought over his Absolute Copper sp cables and that indeed was a straw that broke the camel’s back. I absolutely hated it. I eventually got rid of AZ power cords and just kept the interconnects until they were replaced by Nordost Tyr 2.
Again just a data point for you. Means very little otherwise as our systems are drastically different but you can read between the lines.
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