burn in - how important?

Very…

I've had two experiences.  One of them repeated by other A'goners.

Replacing caps in Focals caused really odd surround sound like effects for about a week until they just magically went away.  The other has to do with Class D amps.  I was using a pair of IcePower amps and turned them off for a weekend.  Came back, they sounded horrible.  Took about 4 days of leaving them on to return. At least 3 other A'goners have confirmed this phenomenon.

When first turned on,and playing a cd, it has an odd tone,, not bad, but, it seems to just be there playing, after 24 hour warm up, there is a difference, even the wife mentioned the sound after 24 hours, she said it sounded softer, and. Pre enjoyable

Absolute believer in burn in but there is also truth to becoming acclimated to a new sound over time. I’ve experienced both. I’ve listened to new items in my system for a day or two then have left the component/speaker to cook for a week or so without listening. It sounded different upon listening a week later. Not all but certainly many have. Those experiences convinced me.

Buy a Furutech NCF outlet and you will have to believe in burn in it’s a bad long schizophrenic ride.

Maybe I was too lazy to plug in the Rogue again but I left the EAR in place and after about 30 hours I noticed a difference, more depth, wider soundstage, Now after about 100 hours - WOW huge soundstage, both depth and width. great tight bass, shimmering highs. Now I know why Tim De Paravicini was regarded as a genius and sorry for the seller who probably had not given the unit a chance to burn in properly.

Excellent learning experience and demonstrating the value of patience . Some high quality audio components need to be given time to evolve and reach their true performance level.  As a result you discovered you  have a wonderful sounding amplifier built by the late and esteemed Tim De Paravicini. Hasty decisions can lead to regrettable actions. Thankfully not in this case.

Charles 

Not only burn-in but warm up, figured this one out 30 years ago. First someone said SS should be left on, sounds better. My vintage 1970's Kenwood integrated, how is it gonna get any more burned in? Left it on 24/7 a few weeks. No difference. Or so I thought. Until one day turned it off and then the next day, WTF? Why's it sound so crappy? Oh. 

McCormack DNA1, Herron VTPH2A, Benz, Koetsu, Origin Live Sovereign and Enterprise arm, I wouldn't say any of them sounded bad they were great right out of the box but it was a trip hearing them change so much the first few minutes and hours. Many times they would sound different by the end of a song than at the beginning. Then slower improvement as time goes on until finally they reach a sort of equilibrium. From then on it is a nightly warmup routine. 

Nothing ever sounds the same twice. If you think it does, you either are not listening closely enough, or your ears or system aren't there yet. 

I have 3 power cables hooked up in series on my refrigerator. They will stay there for a month (30 days). They go from there to conditioner for 2 more weeks. OCC copper with mill spec 5N silver and PTFE. Red copper male/female terminal ends.

When I plug one of those in vs one not conditioned, they never do sound the same or BREAK IN in 1/4 of the time. They sound good as soon as they are plugged in after 30 minutes. At 100 hours that silver clad is sounding great, compaired to another 2-300 more hours it would take for unconditioned cables.

I'm not sure some will ever break-in, in a real low tickle situation. Tone arm wire, that kind if stuff.. I HATE breaking in a new tonearm. I feel like I wear out a cart breaking in the friggen cable, to finally sound great at 500+ hours.. A lot of newbies give up on the thin sound untill, MAGIC. The issue is just being plugged in dosen't condition that type of cable, like a PC does, you have to actually put a signal through the cable.

OFC copper with gold plated terminal ends. 50 hours.. They are ready to work in a tonearm...:-) 10 hours on speaker cable.. Just the nature of the beast.. Break-in time are a LOT shorter..

Equipment, there is all kinds of different cables with different dielectrics. Teflon caps, good Lord, forever to breakin'.. And they sound wonky, for 500 of that..THEN they last for a 1000 years.

Regards

Definitely burn in, break-in, whatever you want to call it, is real. I can't explain it, but any seasoned audiophile hears it.

ozzy

@millercarbon - indeed! When I got my Herron phono amp and line-stage amp, Keith said they'd need 150 hours or so to sound their best. As you say, they sounded just fine out of the box, but Keith was not wrong....

As far as I can remember burn in has been very obvious on all new stuff I have purchased, since I got high end gear… 40 years. Over the last few years I have (for various reasons) broke in about five new pieces of Audio Research Reference electronics and the pattern has been identical. Hugh difference (starting from thin, closed in, limited bass) for about 100 hours… then remarkable improvement, then switching back and forth from good to bad and visa versa around 120 hours… then slow improvement through 600 hours (fastest at first). This time, I did notice improvement over 600 - 1,000 hours… small but noticable… I had read about this before but never experienced it (usually because it was covered up by me switching power cords or interconnects or something.

This has always been a real pain because I usually go through an upgrade cycle… and want to get through it as fast as possible…. But I never buy everything at once so getting hundreds of hours in is hard. I have an extra Schiit system just to break in stuff.

Does anyone notice similar improvements in video equipment?  Colors getting deeper?  Colors becoming correct?  Improvements with higher priced power cords?  

I'm not an owner of any of the high end gear you folks own.  But I certainly have noticed a difference in my vintage equipment now that it has settled in and if I leave it on for a few hours before listening....huge difference.  And I think my '86 Monster speaker cables have burned in fairly well.  Happy listening!

Not burn-in but warm-up. In reply to an email, Nelson Pass said his First Watt F8 reaches thermal equilibrium after an hour. He also said you can leave it on all the time if the waste of electricity is not a problem for you.

Buying a new amp class d sounded weird

but post 100 hours it was unreal

just had same experience with a new Class A

that sweetened up post some “ on time “

Had some expensive speaker cable that sounded great but I replaced it with a much more flexible cable

the new stuff was up for 10 then removed 

and I was a denier!

I leave my oppo BDP 205 disc player powered on all the time.

it was modded by Modwright with dual tubes in the audio output stage and has a single tube in the added power supply, which I do not leave on.

Does not leaving the power supply on continuously have that much of a negative effect on the SQ?

And yes…..I’ve found that break-in/warm-up makes a considerable SQ improvement.

mmm, how many 'burn-in' events have actually made the new 'X' sound worse, triggering buyers' remorse?

There's a story or 2 in that...🙄

Lo-bot luv: Kewl or Kink?

mazian

A very firm believer in burn-in here as well. Welcome! to the club.

Happy Listening!

It varies wildly from component to component.  Tubes Typically need between 60 and 200 hours to sound right.  With tubes, there is an outer coating of material that needs to burn off and negatively impacts performance.  For most tubes, 60-100 hours is plenty.  It is only 300Bs and other tubes that can last decades that usually have really long burn in times. 

Cables need to charge the dialectic.  Parts need to get hot and cool off repeatedly. The spider on a speaker needs to flex.  

Some of these changes can be significant.  Anyone who tells you it is just you getting accustomed to the new sound has not had a lot of new gear.  For those of us who are perpetually opening new boxes, it varies wildly from manufacturer to manufacturer.  When you get a new device, your retailer or the manufacturer should have a POV.  

@verdantaudio ,

Some of these changes can be significant. Anyone who tells you it is just you getting accustomed to the new sound has not had a lot of new gear. For those of us who are perpetually opening new boxes, it varies wildly from manufacturer to manufacturer

Agreed!

For those who insist  that this is all merely  in your head and is nothing more than getting acclimated, I happen to believe they are wrong.

Charles

I thinks its both ....   speakers?  Sure.     Electronics?   Not so sure .....   I do think some of it is just getting acclimated 

My experience with "burn-in" has been variable as some equipment changes more than others with extended use. I installed a new set of PS Audio M1200 mono amps a couple months ago and those have evidenced more changes with time than any component I've used in the last forty years. They sound remarkably different than they did on first installation. My previous PS Audio BHK250 didn't change all that much with extended use. 

The Rogue amps get very little credit for some reason.  Strictly on sound they can hold their own with more costly and seemingly higher regarded products. 

Burn in does matter- more so for solid state for some reason in my experience.  After a week of use or so it should be mostly there.   

moderately to very

Experiencing this at very moment with Psvane Acme 300B, just starting to open up around 75 hours. Amps and speakers the biggest hassle as you actually have to pass signal which means having music going many hours of day, and not with intention of listening or with highest sound quality.

Per verdantaudio, it is the heating and cooling cycle that's responsible for much of burn in. Certainly true for forming of capacitors, EML states tube burn in forms tubes in like manner.