Considering a POSSIBLE replacement for speakers. Opinions?
Upfront, this isn't for Home Theater, just two floor standing speakers and a separate subwoofer. So there is full disclosure. The speakers I am considering replacing are 2008 Monitor Audio Silver RS8's.
Sadly, unlike the Neolithic Era of high end audio, it can be very hard to find a brick and mortar store to visit, listen and compare individual components. That's the way it was done waaay back in the day Now, comparisons seem easiest to get by asking questions like this and finding a consensus. So, if you were looking to replace 12 year old speakers that are highly regarded for their day, what are some brands you'd consider without losing your mind and deciding you need $4,000 speakers? And thanks as always.
Since you are investing a significant amount of money, why not consider a trip? Are you a 4 hour drive from a city? That’s a day trip. Call up in advance, make appointment. Know what they carry, read reviews in advance. Have a play list. Live further? Overnight trip. Take your time.
I really do not recommend acting on a consensus here. Your tastes are probably unique, and the performance of speakers are highly system dependent. A good audio dealer should be able take into account your system, tastes and help guide you. Find out the store owner or manager in advance, make the appointment with him. You want a seasoned professional, not some summer hired kid.
@noble101: Tim, give Danny Richie---the designer of the OB Sub---a call at GR Research. He is a very nice guy, and will be happy to advise you on adding the sub to your system.
Danny is one of the true experts in the world on the subject of OB speaker/sub design. Also check out the GR Research Forum on AudioCircle, which has a number of threads dedicated specifically to the OB Sub.
I am a big fan of the Harbeth sounds and would recommend a set of C7ES3. They will sound more natural, more refined, have better vocal imaging and presence, better instrument recognition and a larger sound stage than any of the MA Silver series.
Make sure you also hear the best selling high end speaker of all time.The 3.2 k newest Vandersteen 2Sig 3 Its offers amazing potential in that it works great with your B&K and well beyond will give you a more sophisticated level of performance then typical box designs.Achieve the proper tone with voices guitars and timing of the recording venue that are MIA in conventional Box/ steep crossover designs. JohnnyR
Time and phase-correct
Minimum-area baffles for driver mountings that eliminate most cabinet edge and grille diffraction anomalies
Midrange and woofer use cast baskets
Tri-woven composite midrange
Filled poly cone woofer
High quality hand built crossovers
SPEAKER SPECIFICATIONS -
DESIGN -Sealed individual enclosure Loudspeakers
TWEETER - 1” Exclusive Dual-Chamber, Transmission-Line Loaded, Ceramic-Coated Alloy Dome with Ferrofluid Voice-Coil Cooling
MIDRANGE - 4.5” Reflection-Free Tri-Woven Composite Cone with
Die-Cast Aerodynamic Basket and Magnet System with Ferrofluid Voice-Coil
Cooling
WOOFER - 8” Mineral-Filled Polycone with Die-Cast Basket,
Dual-Layer Voice Coil with Ventilated Aluminum Former, 40 oz.
Focused-Gap Magnet Structure
ACTIVE ACOUSTIC COUPLER - 10” Critically-Damped Long-Fiber Cone,
Heavy-Duty 1.5” 4-Layer Voice Coil with Ventilated Aluminum Former, 40
oz. Focused-Gap Magnet Structure
There are so MANY great speakers available. As Jay says there is no perfect speaker. I dare say whatever speaker you buy will fill your needs. Provided they match up even half assed with what feeds them. In my case I made a road trip (7hrs) to hear the speakers I bought. And heard them through equipment, and room, that unless I hit the lottery would never own. But know the potential of what I bought.
I've never experimented with an OB sub, or even heard one in action. But I'm still theorizing that 2-3 OB subs, independently and strategically positioned in the room either using measurement gear, room correction hardware/software or just subjectively by ear, would likely yield the best results.
@mijostyn: Ah yes, but there is a cure for the one weakness in the ET LFT-8b (ignoring in this discussion it's inefficiency, which is actually not as severe as are Maggies. I have both.)---the matter of mating the planar m/t drivers with a monopole bass driver (woofer in a sealed enclosure), good as the LFT-8b woofer is (much better imo than in any other hybrid.): use the GR Research/Rythmik OB/Dipole Sub in place of the ET woofer (which has it's own binding post on the top of the woofer enclosure---to facilitate bi-amping or bi-wiring, and may be left unconnected).
The OB sub is, like any and all planar loudspeakers, a dipole radiator, with a figure-of-8 radiation pattern, a null to either side of the OB frame into which the dual-12" woofers are installed. It shares that pattern with the LFT-8b planar drivers, eliminating the problem of the spl-drop off with distance differential found in "normal" hybrids. Clever, ay? ;-)
The GR Research/Rythmik OB/Dipole Sub can be used up to 300Hz, safely above the 180Hz planar/dynamic-to-woofer x/o frequency of the LFT-8b. A single sub (containing a pair of 12" woofers) may be employed on each channel (left and right, in stereo), or multiples may be stacked up on each side. Choose the number of OB Subs based on the desired maximum-spl (and available funds ;-) .
I heard a pair of Paradigm $4500 / pair tower speakers at a B&M store on a Prima Luna EVO , and a Hegel 390. Crystal clear and very detailed on sax, cymbals, lots of soundstage and presents. Instruments, drum sound exactly like they should. They lack deep bass so using your sub would make up for that.
@bdp24 , I would not recommend the LFT-8B even though it is superior to most box speakers it is horribly inefficient and has a predictably weak mid bass as it switches from being a line source to a point source. You can not switch gears like that with a loudspeaker. It is also the weakness most Martin Logan speakers have. The volume of line source loudspeakers falls off much slower than point source speakers so as you move away from such loudspeakers you lose the bass. Imaging also fractures. For those of us using line source loudspeakers this problem has significant implications for subwoofer use. This is a problem I wrestled with for years. You have to create a line source subwoofer system capable of reaching up to the frequency that the woofer panel starts switching to point source. In this instance that is just too high for any subwoofer system. With Maggie 3.7i's you are talking about 250 Hz which is doable but not the way I do it as I cross at 120 Hz. You would need to make two subwoofer towers as high as your ceiling. I would use 10" subwoofers spaced two feet apart. An 8 foot ceiling would require 4 drivers each side. Making corner enclosures would be a novel approach.
I'm in similar boat as OP. I have MA Silver 6's and have really enjoyed them again since i've optimized much of my system around them. I have enjoyed listening to other speakers but am wondering how much I'd need to spend to get a quantum leap in performance. @stereoisomer I think making a leap across family to MA gold and the ribbon tweeter might be the biggest bang for the buck leap you can make. Never mind the finishes on the gold line are simply gorgeous. I'm not convinced moves within the silver line, or moves to a different manufacturer at a similar price point, would buy you a ton but will monitor this thread for real world experiences. Good luck!
Call Coincident Speaker Technology . He has introductory floor model speakers at a reasonable price . My friend bought them and they sound good . It's not one of the ones pictured on the website , all of which are more expensive .
As someone else wrote, the Monitor Audio Silver 300's are the new model version of yours, if you like Monitor Audio Speakers. I have a pair of Silver 500's and I really like them .They are the same speakers but with 8" woofers instead of 6". For some people the 500's might have too much bass and they prefer the 300's.
At that price point, it's a no-brainer to go with the Linkwitz LX521. Not even close. Mind you, it's a DIY project that will take some research on your part to learn about them and the amplification choices, but this is a loudspeaker system that does NOT require a sub-woofer and images exceptionally well. It takes you into the land of open baffle loudspeakers, tri-amplification and DSP EQ. They compare well to the big MBL loudspeakers which retail at $70,000+.
Do your homework. You won't find them on the used market. People build them and love them. This would be the very last loudspeaker you would ever purchase. Read about them at The Linkwitz Lab website.
If you're not brave enough to do that, then seriously consider the SEAS Thor kit from Madisound. The bare kit costs $2231.40. Madisound has a cabinet maker they work with who will build them and have them shipped to your door for about $1000 more if you're not brave enough to build them yourself. There is a used pair on US Audio Mart.
This is a design that is extremely similar to the Joseph Audio Perspective 2 Graphene, which retails for $13,000. Both are transmission line enclosures which used SEAS Excel drivers.
I have Monitor Audio Platinum PL300 II and couldn't be happier. I have always loved the musical side of M.A., coming from being a Klipsch Heritage line owner for many years. The M.A Silver line has always been a favorite, very nice sound, good luck on the hunt.
I recently undertook the same search with the same upper limit. I currently have Monitor Audio speakers (Bronze 5 I think) and considered, in no particular order: Monitor Audio (I forget which ones) Klipsch (but a newer version of the one I considered came out and was priced above the $4k limit) Sierra Tower LSA-20 (the more expensive one, most likely, as they are regularly on sale for $3k without a trial or a bit more with one) Spatial M5 (would have preferred the M3, but they were above my limit) Raven CeLest' Decware speakers (considered a few) Ohm Walsh Salk speakers
I discarded the Klipsch after reading a couple reviews; other reviews suggested that the Salk speakers that were best for rock were above my price range), and I knocked out others that needed to be too far from the wall or too close to a corner. I was leaning toward the Sierra Tower or the LSA-20 had I gone for a more conventional speaker or the Spatial M5 if I thought they would work in my room (it's in a weird position). I decided on Decware ERR-x given my room dimensions. Will know in a couple months if I made a good choice.
I would do yourself a favor and try to listen to a good american vintage speaker made before 1979 they will shock you in so many ways on all types of music and you will have an heirloom to pass down to the rest of your family.
AMAZING! I own 3.4s which has the same 12" concentric driver but no woofers. He using the OEM crap jumpers. I found WireWorld to be awesome, but whichever you decide, get 2+' to get the XOs off the bases. Both are HUGE improvements hth
*sigh* I had a really nice, detailed post as a reply going but I hit the wrong button on my phone and Voila!, gone.
I'll try to recreate it later. For the moment just the down and dirty. I've listed the components above in a second post....mea culpa, that should have been in the first post. Along with room dimensions which are 20×20×13 so roughly 4800 cubic feet. Again, mea culpa, I should have added that. I will add more but for the moment I have one question.
I've found a set of much more modern Monitor Audio Silver 200's from a dealer with a full warranty ( i.e., they are legit ) and free shipping to me. So I am asking people who may have heard both speaker systems, my 2008 Silver RS8's and the newer Monitor Audio Silver 200's if there is an appreciable difference between them or is the difference so small it's likely to go unnoticed?
There's a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 300's listed on Audiogon for $1,049 (which is a great price); however, it is for local pickup only. But, he is in Phoenix, which should be doable from your location in Dallas. Good luck on your quest!
@larry5729 just a glitch I'm guessing. The same thing happened the other day on another thread and they are working to correct it.Others suggested direct sale companies also.Try again?
I posted a response and recommended he contact Jim Salk at Salk Audio. However, my response was removed. Are we not allowed to recommend manufactures who sell direct? They make incredible speakers. I was not aware they remove a response if you mention a manufacturer who sells direct?
@stereoisomer If you like the Monitor Audio sound, it’s a safe bet to go with a newer/better MA speakers. Your budget can accommodate MA Silver line, but if you’re willing to buy used you can afford the MA Gold300. Above the MA Gold line is the Platinum (PL). Also, within each line the larger the model number (100,200,300) the larger the woofers and price.
@mickeyb Great pair of monitor audio pl100 mk ii for sale on us audio. 2500.00$.
may be your best option if you are satisfied with the bass drivers performance.
LSA garnered many very positive reviews before selling their business/inventory IIRC to Underwood Hifi. Seems like Underwood is keeping the LSA prices low to move inventory. For the price/performance, this is a sonic bargain. This seems like relatively safe bet.
Other speaker choices would be subjectively very risky without demo first.
I would avoid flat paneled speakers like Magnepan unless you heard them first. These speakers are very fast and great sounding, but the vibrating panels don’t push enough air to do bass well unlike piston driver speakers. Adding a subwoofer to augment the bass can be problematic as the vibrating panel is significantly faster than the piston motion subwoofer - there is a mismatch in timing. Some folks are satisfied with the added subwoofer sound, other folks not so much as they can hear the timing mismatch. FYI- Magnepan may be creating a dual piston type subwoofer to match their paneled speakers timing - Google “Magnepan for Condos”
Hi, and thank everyone for their responses so far. I should have set aside time to make a proper post rather than ask a simple question...because we all know there are no simple questions when it comes to audiophile questions, right?
First, artemus_5 is right. I had thought I'd listed my current system in my profile but apparently not or it got lost. Get ready, it's a mismatch of equipment that still sounds beautiful.
Source: OPPO BDP-105 ( not the audiophile version )
Preamp: 1993 B&K Sonata Pro-10 MC ( totally refurbished 4 years ago )
Amplifier: a matching 1993 B&K Sonata ST-202+ ( the rare kind, totally refurbished this year )
Speakers: 2008 Monitor Audio Silver RS8
This last part eliminates a lot of suggestions so forgive me for not mentioning them.
Subwoofer: 2 Sunfire SDS-12 subwoofers. Two of them.
I listen mostly to prog rock from the UK and US along with Zeppelin...70's stuff, and moving forward all types of EDM from Marshall Jefferson to Orbital to Underworld, Daft Punk, etc. More rarely I do listen to large classical orchestra pieces like Beethoven's 9th.
Clearly, I can have a block party with this system if I need. It's been quite some time since I changed or added anything but...you know how it is. My speakers are 12 years old now and that itch is back. But maybe it's just an itch I don't really need to scratch. The B&K stuff cannot be replaced by anything reasonably priced that equal their abilities so about all I can do is upgrade the speakers. Call my budget for that around $2,500-$3,000.
So, can I get a better sound by upgrading the speakers in that price range? Thanks Everyone!
Again, please let us know your budget range, your specific other system components, the types of music you listen to, normal listening volume and room size. You've been asked directly and indirectly for this type of info several times in posts above without responding.
You're the one who requested assistance. We sometimes need more info to best advise you. Besides man, it's just plain rude to ignore people trying to help you out.
FWIW, Listing your system in your profile is helpful for just such occasions where recommendations are sought. Based on my experience, I think that high powered amps are not necessarily a good match for efficient speakers. But I don't know what amp you are using so its a shot in the dark to recommend anything like Tekton that is high efficiency speakers but have a large following. Stay with MA if you like the sound you have now, and want to keep that sound.
As mschott astutely pointed out, this has a lot to do with your amplification source and other components in your chain. Actual critical listening sessions under controlled conditions is always best. However, I empathize completely with how much more difficult that is to do these days! As such, I would recommend you speak or communicate with as many trusted & knowledgeable audiophiles as possible to get a better perspective on what might appeal to you and work best in your home and with your components. These are some on-line sellers whose guidance I’ve found relatively trustworthy over the years: Music Direct; Crutchfield; Audio Advice; Audio Advisor; World Wide Stereo. Of course, all of them will try to steer you in the direction of the products they sell, which is understandable. All the more reason to speak or communicate with as may sources as possible to get a better perspective. You might also want to consider posting this question on other sites like Stereophile; Soundstage Hi-Fi; etc. Sometimes, you can even email professional reviewers for guidance, as well. Good Luck!
AXPONA in chicago is a go this fall! You could hear lots of speakers in 1-3 days time. Moving up Monitor Audio’s lines is a great idea. IF you knew you liked something you could wait and watch the used classified advertisements. You are definitely, as is noted above, in a tremendous sweet spot for sound and build quality at you budget. One recommendation: Enjoy the process! I wish I was researching stuff in that range. So much fun!
There are audio shows coming up. I plan on attending the Capitol Audio Show this year. Keep in mind that the rooms are generally horrible BUT, you can get a sense of what appeals to you. I always like the sound of the Thiels at the shows. My thinking was " If they can sound decent at the show, they'll only improve at home". Lots of fun to meander around the rooms as well. Good luck. Joe
You'll need two subs for proper stereo reproduction.
It's very risky purchasing speakers without an audition. All the above recommendations are someone else's ears, components and room. The number one mistake folks make is purchasing the wrong speaker, especially speakers meant to be out from the front wall (most) which end up positioned incorrectly for whatever reason. Then they try to change the character of the speaker with electronics, wire, etc., a hopeless cycle. Great for dealers though.
I've heard several of the recommendations above set up fairly well with good to very good upstream components with very disappointing results.
For something a little different but very transparent with a wide sound stage you might look at the Martin Logan Electromotion ELS or ELSX speakers. They sound fabulous and being hybrid speakers they have base down to 40Hz. An additional benefit is the coherence through the midrange and treble in that they only have a crossover at 500Hz or 400Hz respectively.
Where are you located? If you’re near California, New York, Florida, or Texas you may find some used Duntech’s or Dunlavy’s used.. I can’t think of better used money than those.
If you want something newer and also awesome, look at Tekton. There are a few haters on here but most of them have not owned a pair.
You have a lot of good choices. The Magnepan LRS with a pair of subs (especially the GR Research/Rythmik OB Sub) is a good one, the Maggie-killer Eminent Technology LFT-8B an even better one. VPI’s Harry Weisfeld considers it to have the best midrange he has ever heard, regardless of price (I compared the LFT-8B to the MG1.7i---no contest). But both those options require spacing of at least 3’ from the wall behind them, 5’ even better.
For a monitor plus sub(s), I know what I would do: Posted just today here on Audiogon is a pair of GR Research NX Studio Monitors, custom made by a private speaker builder from the GR Research kit (the only way the speaker is available). The seller has priced the speaker at the cost of it’s parts, so not only do you not have to build it yourself, the cost of him doing it is.....nothing! Add a pair of subs (again, the OB sub would be optimal), and you have a really, really good loudspeaker, at a very modest cost. But this speaker also requires 3’ spacing, as the NEO3 magnetic-planar tweeter is employed in open baffle/dipole fashion.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
