Keep‘em short! Intona Reference and Mad Scientist or Oyaide Continental S2
Experience up-leveling streaming with USB cables?
Hi All -
I posted this in the cable section, but thought I’d add it here. Like many of you, I’m always looking to make tweaks over time to improve my system. I’m thinking about purchasing an Innuos Reclocker to work with my existing Innuos ZENith mkiii.
Part of that is obviously adding an additional USB cable.
I read positive comments about the Final Touch Sinope cable. I was wondering if anyone with direct experience with the cable could comment on the qualities of that cable? Alternatively, I’d welcome suggestions on other USB cables you’ve used to up-level your streaming experience.
Thanks in advance!
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I used a Transparent USB cable to connect my Zenith III to a Merason DAC, but found a huge improvement when I upgraded to a WW Platinum 7 cable. I was very pleasantly surprised, as I was not expecting much. It sounds like @benzman has found further bliss beyond this cable with the Stealth, maybe I will have to try that one. |
Hi, I have one on hand if you want it. You can write me directly. it is a great cable, very fast, accurate, open, airy. It bested several cables I used before. I have it new, unused as that particular project did not materialized. best |
I use this from LavriCables that I think offers high value with 5N silver and physically separate data and power legs for only $150/1m. They also offer a higher end version with higher gauge 5N silver if you want more and still not horribly priced at $425/1m https://www.lavricables.com/cables/grand-silver-usb-a-b-interconnect-cable/ I’ve got several of their cables and have been impressed by their quality and performance/$. Best of luck
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This is a good USB reference comparison thread. https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/usb-cable-shootout-8-cables-tested.37488/ |
Shunyata alpha or theta USB was huge in my system. Went with slpha ultimately but theta gave me most of the alpha improvement but found a used alpha online for same price as a new theta. I'd HIGHLY recommend you find a local hifi shop to let you try different cabling. I found the Shunyata stuff beat the other brands like wire world that I tried. Best of luck to you! |
@jrareform - Thanks for the Shunyata recommendations! |
And a pleasant journey it is. I almost pulled the trigger on @mitch2 's MkII the other day. At some point I will have to compare one of those to my Reuss.
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Hi @bluethinker , A few years ago all my analogue cables with AU24SX and I thought they were great. Then my dealer brought KS Elation speaker cables for me to try with my new Hailey speakers, and oh my so much better. Still very resolving (a strength of the AU24 SX) but much fuller in the bass and midrange. I feel a very natural sounding cable, smooth and full, and still very resolving. For USB and AES, I have tried a few, and the KS Realization are all of the above... Full, natural, resolving. I have directly compared to the Network Acoustics AES, and I like that as well, but give the edge to the KS. |
@sls883 I’m not sure that’s the case with USB. That was once thought to be the case for SPDIF and AES/EBU digital cables but I’ve since read that as digital has evolved that’s no longer the case and 1m is fine as well. Maybe an audio engineer will chime in and clarify, but getting a 1m cable can obviously save a lot of $$$ if it can work as well. |
@soix I don't know if there is any validity to it, but some seem to think there is. I bought the cable used when I got my streamer and it happened to be 1.5M. My I2s cable is only 0.5M. I picked up a new one from Wyred 4 Sound. On sale for $99. |
@bluethinker: I am sorry to be the one muddying the waters, but... it’s not that simple IME. 1. Price and reputation can be misleading sometimes. Synergy and personal preference, on the other hand, do play a huge role. I have pretty good gear, not very high end but pretty decent (Accuphase CD/SACD player / Dac, Accuphase integrated, Spendor and soon to come Graham speakers) and I have tried the following USB cables in my system: FTA Sinope (1m, great reviews), Charlin something (1m, it was about 700 euro retail a couple of years ago or so), Curious (1m and 2m, great reviews), Supra Excalibur (1m), Supra (1m and 2m, still have them both), LH Labs Lightspeed (1m), something from iFi with power and signal separated and 2 A-type connectors (1m or smaller), something from Kimber (1m, silver plated copper I think, about 5-600 euro retail iirc) and I think also a DH Labs Mirage (1m). And the winner was... to my ears and in my system... the cheapest Supra (2m)! Believe it or not! I could tell a very similar story regarding the power cables, btw. I’m not saying Supra is "objectively" better, it was overall preferable to me. I’d love to try others though: Sablon, Transparent, maybe even the ubiquitous Audioquest Diamond. 2. Length does matter in USB cables. When I compared the 1m to the 2m versions of Supra and Curious, in both cases I preferred the longer cable: stronger, punchier bass and more assertive treble, better authority overall. The short cable was definitely more midrange centric and might have had a more complete (as in not simplified) rendition of cymbals, but I’m not sure anymore. In a different system, a different cable could result in a different conclusion. The 1.5 meter minimum lenght is a recommendation of Steve Nugent of Empirical Audio if I’m not mistaken and is not about the USB cables, it’s about the coaxial SPDIF cables. Something about the imperfect impedance matching resulting in reflections that travel back and forth along the wire and arrive at the receiver a short while after the initial impulse. If the delta t is too small, i.e. the cable is too short, the receiver gets confused. |
@jeffreyw what cables have you compared the WW to? |
@luvtubes69 - Thanks for the suggestion. Is there a particular DH Labs USB cable you recommend? |
@bluethinker In comparison to the AQ Diamond. The Diamond was very transparent and detailed. A bit thin in the midrange but had fast articulate bass. The frontRow Reserve (Audience's best USB Cable) Did everything the AQ did as far as hearing the details but has a far warmer or fuller smoother midrange. The top end has a bit of delicacy to it now, not so edgy and pronounced. It fills in what the AQ was missing. The soundstage is wider and deeper and the bass is even more developed yet articulate and textured. |
I was looking at the UIP as a somewhat affordable upgrade. Just wondering if it would improve the USB implementation between my T&A Dac 200 and Melco N1a h60 server/streamer. Returns to China / HK really not an option. |
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My preference is the WW Starlight. To try to quantify, it is about 15% better than the Inakustik. For the money, Inakustik is hard to beat in the under $1K category with the exception of the WW. I still would put the WW up against anything. It is that good. I wanted the Shunyata Omega, but my dealer persuaded me away based on my likes of an organic presentation. |
I'm in the same boat, currently have a Zenith MK3 and plan on getting their reclocker as well. Been looking at cable options and picked up a few when I see good deals. So far I've go a Clarus Crimson, Crystal Cable Diamond, Audience Frontrow, and Pink Faun Ultra that I got for a steal from a friend. This was going to be my pool from which I choose but I've decided to add the Veritas Cables Audax as well, since I've been really happy with my other recent Veritas purchases. Once I have the reclocker I'll start the comparison process and see how it goes.
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@v-fi - Did you see Mitch's recent DAC comparison review? It was quite the well-followed thread as he demoed and wrote about his impressions of each dac. Given that you've got a nice assortment of cables, would be great to hear your impressions once you test them with your new Innuos reclocker. |
No I don't believe I saw that, have a link? I always appreciate when people post their in depth experiences. I find that those are often more valuable even than a pro review on some website or in a magazine. That's because the person is writing out of passion and not just for an assignment. Obviously not always true since some people write better than others but you get the idea. So far after trying all the USB cables I have on hand, I'm leaning towards the Pink Faun Ultra id my favorite. But all of them are really enjoyable. Need to spend a lot more time with them before I can make a definitive decision though, and definitely want that Veritas Audax in the mix as well. |
@v-fi - Totally agree. I’ll find the link to Mitch’s “Six Dac comparison” thread here on Audiogon. It’s actually here on the digital forum. I think you might enjoy the read. It’s a fun read exactly because it’s from the perspective of an enthusiast enthralled with a passion for music and the effect equipment can have on sound quality. Will look forward to your observations on the various USB cables. Along with the Innuos reclocker it’s my next planned upgrade in 2025.
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Some good info here also for the $$$$ USB options. https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/usb-cable-shootout-8-cables-tested.37488/ |
@v-fi - Here is the thread for the six Dac comparison: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/six-dac-comparison/post?highlight=merason&postid=2737952
@luvtubes69 - Thanks for the link. Very apt read for me right now! @jeffreyw - Thanks for your reply. I’ll do some more research on that recommended USB cable. |
@luvtubes69 Thanks for that link, that was a fun read. I feel similar in that all the USB cables I've been messing with make a difference but it's not huge at all. On the one hand I feel like people might be expecting too much of an upgrade when buying a fancy USB cable. But on the other hand sometimes the best cables (or just the best match in the particular system being used) really do fill out that elusive last bit of realism, which can absolutely be worth the cost of that cable. So as usual the answer is that it depends on your system. @bluethinker Thanks for that link I will read when I have a chance. Seems like a great thread from skimming so far.
As for me I have been rotating through all these USB cables. So far I continue to love the Pink Faun USB although I'm now confused about the name. The original owner calls it the "Ultra" but Pink Faun's website only shows the "Interlink" USB cable. It appears identical but with different text on the label showing that name. Maybe the same product but they changed the name? I don't know. But it is very musically engaging, rich, really open and spacious sounding. For around $1,000 new this is a great cable, for the second hand price I paid it is a steal. The Audience Frontrow USB is a close second place. Also really enjoyable, a bit more focused and energetic at the expense of not feeling quite as open. It makes the Pink Faun seem a little smooth and relaxed in comparison which is good or bad depending on your system or preferences. I prefer the Pink Faun but with different gear I could see the Audience taking the win. At around $1500 for the 1.5 meter version I have here, this one is also a great cable if not as good of a value as Pink Faun. The Clarus Crimson was somewhat annoying because it only comes in 1 or 2 meter versions, not 1.5 meters. So I ended up with a 2 meter cable which was longer than necessary and cost around $1,000. It did end up sounding fairly nice in isolation but didn't really do anything better than either the Pink Faun or the Audience. Still a good cable and maybe if you only needed the 1 meter version it would be a good value, but I'd personally go with either of the other two. The Crystal Cable Diamond is the entry level USB for the brand, selling around $1000 (seems like a theme here). It was the only one of this comparison that I didn't really enjoy in my system. Very lit up, fast, and clean, but missing out in richness and texture that the other cables had. "Thin" is probably the best word I can think of. Too bad, as this is a beautiful cable, possibly the best looking of the bunch. Might work great in another system but for me this was a poor match. The above represents my initial comparison. But I had a last minute addition with the Veritas Cables Audax USB. Veritas is a new brand I stumbled upon and have been really impressed with the several cables I've tried so far. Audax is only $400 for a 1.5 meter version and it gives up nothing to the others in looks or build quality. In fact it might be up there with the Crystal Cable and Pink Faun as far as being the nicest built. In sonics the Audax is also very competitive with the best in this bunch, sounding a little like a mix between the insightful Audience and the more musical Pink Faun. It doesn't do quite as well as either of them in their areas of strength, but sort of combines both into a really well rounded and coherent presentation. There's a trade off involved (as with all audio) but I might just like the Veritas best even inspite of the price differences. Factor in the price being less than half the others and it seems almost unfair. In summary, the Pink Faun, Audience, and Veritas USB cables are all exceptional sounding and very well build. I could be happy with any of them but the value aspect goes overwhelmingly to the Veritas Audax. I guess I would say the Veritas Audax and Pink Faun Ultra (or whatever it is called) are sort of tied for first place, then Audience Frontrow, then the Clarus Crimson, and the Crystal Cable Diamond in last place. I'll be returning or selling several of these but the Veritas and Pink Faun are keepers. |
REading about the sinope, it appears the handmade conductors have a single strand of silver woven with a bunch of copper. I'd much rather have silver plated copper as the current will travel mostly on the surface anyway. I have had great success with AQ Carbon USB but it doesn't have much snob appeal. Jerry |
If your budget allows for it, check out the QSA Lanedri USB Gamma Infinity cable. This one managed to top all my USB cables including my Pink Faun Ultra and Habst Ultra III to be my new reference. Nothing special about the construction, in fact it's rather plain looking. But that natural and detailed sound is something else. |
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