Musical Fidelity M5Si
Integrated Amplifier Recommendations Needed
I have a pair of JBL L112 speakers in excellent condition, but I would like an integrated amplifier to drive them. The JBLs are fairly efficient, 89 dB @ 1 W/1 M, and the maximum recommended amplifier power is 300 watts. My room is 20X25 with 10-foot ceilings.
100 wpc would be adequate; what do you all recommend? I want to stay under $2000, and used equipment is fine.
I listen to 80% jazz, from small groups to big bands. The rest mixes classical, classic rock, Steely Dan, etc.
Best,
MB
63 responses Add your response
Used I'd recommend the Hegel H190, 150wpc 8ohms, 250wpc 4 ohm....would be more than enough....and has a very slight warmer tone. Or the Heaven 11 Billie Amp MKII, 120wpc 8ohms, 215wpc 4ohms....class D and a tube preamp stage.....can be found used for about $1,500, but they rarely last a day or two when they show up. Check out some of the reviews by British Audiophile, Steve Guttenberg, Jay's Iyagi, Steve Huff, Nemo....etc, all really good. I set up a small system with it for a friend, he's extremely happy |
In A/B comparisons with my speakers (Stirling Broadcast 88s/ Borresen X3s/ Philharmonic BMR Towers) the PMA A110 and Yamaha 2100 are not vastly different. Both sound equally powerful, both have a slightly forward presentation (“2nd row” VS more typical “5th row,” going by the ol’ concert hall analogy), and both are very quiet. The Yamaha has greater tube-like lushness/texture in the midrange, while the Denon is less colorful—more typical straight-no-chaser solid state sound. The Denon’s midrange is ever so slightly smoother, probably owing to its class A bias in the first one or two watts and its 2nd-order dominant distortion. However, the Yamaha hits back with stronger bass authority in the lowest two octaves. If one ignores the fact the Denon has no balanced inputs, and doesn’t have any pre-outs, then it is perhaps the better value, considering both its phono stage and DAC are competitive or even superior to some good stand-alone units. The Yamaha lacks the excellent DAC but is otherwise the more versatile option. What I find most intriguing about all these Japanese integrateds is the similarities in voicing and design/build. The Luxman 507Z produces the same sort of “2nd row” presentation as that of the Yammie and Denon. In fact, I found the Luxman almost indistinguishable in sound from the A110. All of them have two-prong connection to the mains power. All use EI-Core transformers, and all have similar build quality on balance. Even the ergonomics of the Yamaha and Denon remote controllers are so similar that one would be forgiven for assuming they were designed by the same person. Anyhow, I’m huge fan of these Japanese integrateds. Everything I’ve owned or trialed from U.S. or European brands doesn’t come close for the money—they’re either sonically inferior or not built nearly as well. That’s especially true with regard to noise floor.
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The Yamaha A-S2100 recommended by @helomech is a solid candidate. The Yamaha integrated has a very quiet and excellent phono stage if you run a turntable. No built in DAC if you want/need that feature. |
+1 for Parasound. I recently upgraded my TV/family room system with a lightly used Parasound Halo integrated purchased here on a-gon under $1500. I have an older pair of PSB Synchrony Ones in a very large room and the change has made a significant impact on the overall sound. It is a tough room acoustically speaking, yet the improvement was immediately noticeable. Greater bass impact and articulation and a seamless soundstage that extends beyond the width of the speakers. I’ve only had it for two weeks but I am delighted. |
Around $2K on the used market, the Denon PMA A110 and Yamaha A-S2100 are hard to beat. IME, both are competitive with integrateds in the $6K-$8K range from other brands. As an example, both have a lower noise floor than the Luxman 507z. The Yamaha produces deeper bass and sounds more powerful despite the lower power output.
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Give this a look, Gato AMP-150 AE Integrated Amplifier https://www.gato-audio.com/eu/amp-150.html
Happy hunting |
btw, why limit yourself to Integrated? What are your sources? This Chase Remote Line Controller will give you up to 4 line inputs as well as remote: power; volume; mute; balance; treble; bass, and two identical outputs (ignore front/back, it was from the early quad era, identical stereo signals front and rear, and a fader). thus you can use any amp, mono blocks, vintage, full featured with no remote ..... I use one with my Vintage Yamaha Receiver via it’s processor loop to get remote volume and mute in the shop system. Another for remote balance in main system, and my office just for remote power as the Luxman lacks that. And, it has automatic and progressive bass boost for low level listening which is excellent implementatiom, even though I don’t listen at low levels. this is new in box you must have the remote as there are no controls on the unit. save money, there is a remote for sale for $30. then you can buy one of the many without remotes, they all use the same KP-1 remote If you want Vintage with those speakers, just saying
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Music Fidelity, sep. power supply, lotto power, $2,280. It seems going over your budget some gives you some serious options discussion here, I didn't read it, just found it https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/musical-fidelity-m6-500i-vs-kw-500
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I owned a pair of L112’s back when they were first released. A really, really good speaker and I wish I’d kept them. I used a Mac 2120 amp with a Crown 150A preamp. This gear was taken around to all kinds of venues and played loud with reggae being a favorite and we would amp guitars with the setup as well. Given my fond memories of the L112 and the 4312 and 15 originals from back in the day, and based on your listening, perhaps a Leben CS-600 would work or go with a Mac SS integrated. The Leben will give you more satisfaction unless you need volume and robustness. BTW - I replaced the Crown pre with a wonderful PS Audio pre driving the 2120 and that was way better sounding but less functional. |
If you are willing to stretch a little, the Belles Aria Signature is more powerful and terrific (I own one and previously had the basic Aria). I also own the Gato Amp 150, which is their top model and sensational. The Amp 150 is Class AB and does not have a DAC, while the less expensive 250 and 400 while having higher power ratings are Class D and have an internal DAC... |
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@samdance I tend not to recommend anything I haven't owned & enjoyed and/or been very impressed with in serious seat-time in auditions. That being said, there is definitely a synergy or compatibility that needs to be considered when it comes to selecting major playmates like an amp & speakers. As such, I would definitely recommend auditioning whatever amp(s) interest you with your speakers before making a final decision. Here are some ideas for you to ponder: Musical Fidelity M6si + McIntosh MA5200 or anything McIntosh+ Simaudio Moon Neo 340 IX + Luxman + expertly refurbished Sansui + Yamaha. F.Y.I. From "The Vintage Speaker": "The L112´s performance depends heavily on the correct positioning and elevation of the speakers in consideration to the room size." JBL L112 Century II Speaker Review, Specs and Price - the Vintage Speaker Review Good Luck & Happy Hunting! |
McIntosh isn't the best value, if you want to maximize your $. Used Simaudio, Billie, Classe, Belles, Hegel, NAD, AVA would be on my list. There is a lot Sansui and vintage receivers on shopgoodwill. Only buy them if you know someone who can service them. I sold my Marantz beasts after the local repair shop "aged out" of usefulness |
Wow! Thank you for all the advice! I had only been thinking solid state as I didn't think there were tubes that were within my budget. I would love the old Sansui if I could find a clean one that has been restored. Would I be better off spending more and getting a McIntosh? There is an MA252 near me for $3500. I am a professional musician, so I have pretty good ears. Would I notice a difference by jumping up in price?
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I tend to agree with bgross. Vintage speakers should have a vintage receiver. Sansui, Marantz, Kenwood, Macintosh. Upper end models of any of the brands fully restored (pots cleaned, replaced, caps and diodes replaced) should be available within your budget, and will compliment the JBLs the best. My son just put together a classic system with Sansui 5000x and Wharfedale Achromatic speakers. Looks great, and the sound is amazing. Compares well with any of more current recommendations. Great sound stage, focus and PRAT. The adjustments of response on both the receiver and speakers, let you tailor the sound to the room, and even helps move the presentation forward or back (by adjusting the mid response) as desired. Also want to take a moment to comment on the Hegel recommendations. I have listened to the Hegel 390, and also some of the lower line models. Listened with Revel Performa M105. Initially very impressed, but further listening at another session, I find the mids to be smeared together. Great bass and Hi end, but the mids just lose instrument definition and placement. Maybe with larger 3 way speakers they work, but not for me. I would not recommend Hegel for big band or classical. YMMV. |
I’ve owned over a dozen integrated amps. I would go with more than 100 watts if solid state, 100 watts tube would be ok. I have 90db speakers and use a 250 watt separate amp. I used the jolida, both sprouts, and the auralic in my 2nd or 3rd systems and they all sounded pretty good. McIntosh ma6500 or the ma6900 are very nice sounding, they are over 20 years old now. The hegels were nice sounding but a little light in the power category. I bought the 360 because I wanted to use the integrated dac but it wasn’t as good as my separate dac. I upgraded my speakers to the larger Ushers in my 26x16x15’ room and the Hegel didn’t control the larger woofer so I went separates. The rogue tube sounded very nice with the usher mini dancer 2’s, so much so that an audio friend posted on agon how good the setup sounded. I used the 4 ohm load setting. My only complaint was in the bass area where I thought it sounded a little flabby so I bought the hegels. in my 2nd system, the Auralic Polaris is a great sounding integrated, with everything you can think of in it. My large ushers at 86db efficient sound very nice thru the Polaris, I just need to turn up the volume a little more, with the Revels, normal volume levels. Read some of the reviews from Darko and others on the Polaris, I would take the Polaris over the hegels up to the h360 for the sound quality and what this amp gives you in features. If you like tubes, the rogue with its integrated phono was nice sounding too. In my dedicated audio room, my 250 watt SS separate amp is as low as I would go for my 90db Revels. |
" My point is specs can be very misleading which means a demo is almost a necessity when unsure about amp/speaker synergy." How does one do that when buying used? Just curious. I used that Belles driving my easy load Harbeth HL5s and it came damn close to my tube separates. It is an old school integrated without all the bells and whistles. A think it would be perfect match with those vintage JBLs!!
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If you can find an Audiomat of any kind I would grab it. I have owned an Audiomat Arpege integrated tube amplifier for more than 25 years and an Audiomat Prelude Reference MKII for over 20 years. They each have had only one Repair and it was to the volume knob, an inexpensive Repair. If you read reviews they tend to be glowing. Audiomat is not particularly well known in the US which is most unfortunate because it performs well above its price point, is attractive and sounds exceptionally good. |
@yogiboy The Belles Aria has very good tonality/coherence and musical flow that most budget amplifiers lack. Had my sister’s audio gear when she was in the process of moving. Had 3 amplifiers on hand...my current Esoteric A 03/C 03 previously used a Valve Audio Predator and her Belles Aria. The Aria was taxed driving my Focus Audio FS 8 speakers that have a claimed 91db sensitivity with 4ohm/3ohm minimum. What I have read is the Focus Audio FS 8 has a very difficult phase shift that my Esoteric and Predator were never taxed although the Predator lost liquidity at higher volume. My point is specs can be very misleading which means a demo is almost a necessity when unsure about amp/speaker synergy. Hegel integrated amps are best suited for Home Theater applications. |
