Prima Luna Prologue Premium Stereo Amp $2199
Is it possible to buy a decent tube amplifier in the $2000-3000 range?
I have very efficient vintage Dalquist DQ 20 speakers.
Am currently running them with monoblock NuForce class D amps.
Also vintage Conrad-Johnson PV 11 preamp.
Any suggestions, new or used for tube amp in the $2000-3000 range.
Am currently running them with monoblock NuForce class D amps.
Also vintage Conrad-Johnson PV 11 preamp.
Any suggestions, new or used for tube amp in the $2000-3000 range.
55 responses Add your response
Offer 3k for this: http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649194389-dialogue-premium-hp-integrated-amplifier/ this has been listed for awhile. Theres plenty of positive reviews. The Rogue is good also, but I've seen a few listings used that is the result of going with the PL HP after comparing the two. Subjective, naturally...YMMV.Rogue made in the USA, blah,blah blah. If it has to be made in the USA-I'd consider the Rogue and Quicksilver suggestions. |
I would not consider a speaker with a 86 dB sensitivity and a load of 6 ohm nominal, 4 ohm minimum as a "very efficient" speaker. I would think that you would need a powerful tube amp (100-200 wpc) to drive these speakers well, with tubes. I am not aware of any powerful tube amps costing less than $3K, sorry. I don't believe that a 40 wpc tube amp will do those speakers justice. They probably work best with your NuForce amps. |
’I would think that you would need a powerful tube amp (100-200 wpc) to drive these speakers" Not a tube but there’s a steal of a deal Krell KSA-300s listed for sale right now for $3K and that should drive your speakers with some serious gusto. A 185 lbs. of solid America made steel. Might need to nail your furniture down to the floor to stop them from walking across the room... |
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check out Finale Audio out of Toronto they are the sister company to Triode Labs. all made in north America with many options for upgrades like better transformers (think Hashimoto,James ect). I seem like a fan boy of their stuff lately but I've been extremely surprised and satisfied with an integrated from them. Finale has stuff starting in your budget and sometimes you seen them on here for a deal from the manufacturer like demo or show units. they put the money into the parts not the case work by the way all very simple steel chassis painted nicely though. tubes, transformers etc all exposed as they should be. |
Rogue is a very good sounding amplifier. FWIW, I owned tubed gear for years- First a CJ amp, then Rogue. For the last 4 years I have owned Pass gear. Don't miss tubes one bit with the Pass stuff. Absolutely nothing missing musically. I do not agree that tubed gear sounds more powerful at equal ratings. What I think is going on is 2 things for anyone who hears it that way- 1- Damping factor- tubed gear tends to have low damping factor which can make the bass sound more robust and conversely, solid state bass can sound very tight, albeit lean. So, I am no fan of insanely high damping factors. 2- Clipping- tubes usually distort more gracefully. An overdriven tubed amp is going to sound better than an overdriven solid state amp. |
Imo get rid of the speakers. They are not efficient; they are like pushing a brick, like a Magnepan. It would take a crapload of power/current to make them sound lively. By looking for an inexpensive tube amp you are setting yourself up for marginal improvement. They are, of course, lovely in terms of nostalgia, but there are far, far better speakers now. You can do so much better in terms of speakers. Don't fool yourself into thinking the speakers are "all that". If you want a sea change, change the speakers. Or, rip into them and redo them, from crossover to internal wiring to drivers. If you love their appearance that would be worth it to you. But it won't help with valuation of the speakers. Don't expect miracles if all you do is change amps. You would get much farther overall by changing speakers, imo. Your current electronics with a more efficient speaker would be revelatory to you. :) |
With barely "efficient" speakers (allegedly 91db) my $1200 (1500 new when available) Dennis Had Fire Bottle SEP HO amp, designed and hand built by a genuine American geezer (only mentioned because hand wired SE amps from some places cost multiples of this…Shindo anybody?), is one of the best sounding amps I’ve ever heard and produces some genuine loudness with its mighty 12 watts per side (or 17 watts…not certain)…a world class amp which made me reconsider my opinions regarding wattage and geezers. |
I also recommend Primaluna. You can frequently find used product online. I would look for the dialogue series over prologue. I think echo audio in Portland had a great deal on some mono blocks. You could buy one and use in stereo or buy both. They do sell online but don’t always ship depending on the product. I have a dialogue one integrated and I love it. |
Check out these bad boys, a pair of M-125 monoblocks, http://www.tubes4hifi.com/bob.htm Scroll down to the bottom for the M-125s. Or yes, as whitestix says, go with one of Don Sach's KT-88 amps. http://www.dsachsconsulting.com/custom%20kt88%20tube%20amp.html Either choice will push Maggies to the limit, no mean feat. |
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$2K to $3K is plenty for a decent tube integrated. Raven, Rogue, Line Magnetic, Melody, Prima Luna and Cayin all make competent products. IMO, Cayin amps are the real sleepers. Performance wise, these amps are basically on par, if not better than the LMs and Prima Lunas. Chassis construction is often beefier and they have neater point-to-point wiring than the others. The downside is they have almost no dealer network in the U.S. at the moment. If buying used, and warranty isn't a factor, consider a used Cayin, which could be well under budget. Rogue tube amps use PCB mounted tube sockets. This factor alone was enough for me to avoid the Cronus Magnum. Installing and removing tubes in these amps makes the PCB sound like a bowl of Rice Krispies. It makes the whole board flex in quite a stressing way. They also have audible transformer hum IME. The Rogue Hybrids don't achieve any of the tube magic, despite what their marketing might lead one to believe. I owned the Sphinx and Pharaoh and neither sound anything like a tube amp. The Cronus is far better than the hybrids. |
I'll throw in another vote for PL and Rogue. I've owned and auditioned several pieces from both - they both sound great in their own right, IME PL more fleshed out in the midrange, Rogue more dynamic, wider bandwidth, better bass control. Within the Rogue line, the all-tube vs. hybrid are split similarly, with the all-tube designs having a warmer, more complex midrange, while class-D hybrids have iron-fist bass grip and bass control. That said, an option at the top your budget would be a used pair of Rogue M-180s. I've been running these in a system for a few years and love them for their ability to naturally and effortlessly handle many styles, with relatively inefficient speakers (ProAc 2.5s) They're also fairly tunable via tube rolling, especially via the 12ax7 phase inverter. |
I’m beginning to think I need about 200W per channel, as my 160W monoblocks are not quite doing the job. Well, if 160 watts is not quite getting the job done, 200 watts won't give you much more, maybe 1 dB if you're lucky. I would think you would need 300-400 watts to drive those speakers. 300-400 watts, for $2-3K, yeah, you're only choice is solid state. Or, as Douglas and Shardone have implied, get different speakers which are easier to drive. |